2011-12 NFC North Division

[MerrittsMustache]

I totally get what you're saying. I just think you are drastically overstating the importance of it. If Knox disengages, do they really have to account for him, or do they let him go and have one less blacker to worry about? It depends I suppose. To suggest that this will appreciably  impact how teams scheme for Hester (any more than they already do), is a bit silly. They will call their coverages consistent with the situation the same as they do now.

If his return stats are appreciably better than they have been in past years, you can claim credit later.

Fair enough...but I still don't think you get it.

[Hards Alumni]

Here is a pretty good break down, with still shots, of the play. 
Slocum stinks as a special teams coach, in my opinion.

http://espnmilwaukee.com/page.php?page_id=278

He must have some serious dirt on McCarthy.

Slocum shouldn't be coaching pros, and I've said this for years.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Why did Masthay drift over to the right hashmark with everyone else?  He is the only Packer who knew the punt actually went left.  Did he expect a cross-field  lateral?  Did he need 10 extra yards to get a better tackling angle going back the other way--figuring he was faster than Hester or Knox to make up that ground?  Talk about stupid.

[MUMac]

Why did Masthay drift over to the right hashmark with everyone else?  He is the only Packer who knew the punt actually went left.  Did he expect a cross-field  lateral?  Did he need 10 extra yards to get a better tackling angle going back the other way--figuring he was faster than Hester or Knox to make up that ground?  Talk about stupid.

Not sure it really mattered.  Knox, with a blocker, scores on the Punter - no matter where they were, lined up or came from.  Plenty of green space to Knox' left.

In response to your question, though, I am guessing Masthay thought the punt was going out of bounds.  I doubt he saw Knox going to field the ball.

Of all the idiots, the punter is the last one I would criticize.

[StillAWarrior]

Why did Masthay drift over to the right hashmark with everyone else?  He is the only Packer who knew the punt actually went left.  Did he expect a cross-field  lateral?  Did he need 10 extra yards to get a better tackling angle going back the other way--figuring he was faster than Hester or Knox to make up that ground?  Talk about stupid.

From the link Sir Lawrence provided:

5. Bush is now inside the Chicago 10, while Knox is about to catch the ball at the 11. All the other players on the field are in the middle or toward the opposite hash marks except Masthay, who is standing at the Packers’ 45-yard line. As he said after the game, he thought the play had been whistled dead given where his coverage team was compared to where the ball was.

To tell you the truth, I'm not even entirely sure what he means.  He thought the play was whistled dead because his entire team ran the wrong way?

[Dr. Blackheart]

In response to your question, though, I am guessing Masthay thought the punt was going out of bounds.  I doubt he saw Knox going to field the ball.

So he was then jogging to the wrong sideline after he thought he kicked it out of bounds?    

You are right, there was a whole lot of stupid going on, including the hold.

[StillAWarrior]

Here is a pretty good break down, with still shots, of the play. 
Slocum stinks as a special teams coach, in my opinion.

http://espnmilwaukee.com/page.php?page_id=278

I just looked at this again.  Picture six is great.  By that time seven of the Bears are in position to seal off the play.

[NavinRJohnson]

Looking at that break down (admittedly at only a handful of still shots without the benefit of the video), I would submit that hold was more key to the play than people have been giving it credit for. As stated, Bush had the guy beat, and based on those pictures, he seemed to be the only guy headed exactly where the ball was to be kicked. With the benefit of the hold, the blocker was able to stay engaged and force him inside, away from the ball, and prevent him from locating the ball. If he is able to get down the field without being held, I suspect all the talk about this play could be a bit different (if it was even being talked about at all).

[MUMac]

So he was then jogging to the wrong sideline after he thought he kicked it out of bounds?    

You are right, there was a whole lot of stupid going on, including the hold.

You must have a view that I do not.  He kicked from the right hash and ended up a few yards to right of the right hash.  If there is a view that shows him jogging to the wrong sideline, I would be interested in seeing it.

[MUMac]

Looking at that break down (admittedly at only a handful of still shots without the benefit of the video), I would submit that hold was more key to the play than people have been giving it credit for. As stated, Bush had the guy beat, and based on those pictures, he seemed to be the only guy headed exactly where the ball was to be kicked. With the benefit of the hold, the blocker was able to stay engaged and force him inside, away from the ball, and prevent him from locating the ball. If he is able to get down the field without being held, I suspect all the talk about this play could be a bit different (if it was even being talked about at all).

I had this same thought when I first saw the hold.  Bush would have been down and in postion to pick up the ball without the hold much sooner.  Additionally, it took Bush away from Knox who was running toward the sidelines.

The one question I have had on this was whether or not the Bears did the same on the gunner on the other side?  If not, they either guessed right or the Packers they knew how the Packers would directional punt at that time (or it was telegraphed).

[Dr. Blackheart]

You must have a view that I do not.  He kicked from the right hash and ended up a few yards to right of the right hash.  If there is a view that shows him jogging to the wrong sideline, I would be interested in seeing it.

See frame 5 where he is 5 yards towards the Bears bench well outside that right hashmark and well after kicking it to the sideline--Knox is about to catch the ball. He kicked it about 3-4 years to the left of the right hashmark. So he is 8-9 yards in the wrong direction after the hang time.  You said previously: "I am guessing Masthay thought the punt was going out of bounds"...if he thought that, he sure is headed to the wrong sideline (thus the smart arse icon).

Fact is, his role is to be the guardian angel there, whether he could tackle him or to slow him down--and to be the communication quarterback on the play alerting his team that he did indeed kick it left as planned and that is was a dupe.  He failed on two critical aspects of it when he was the only one on his team who actually knew that he punted it left.  MAJOR FAIL. 

[MUMac]

See frame 5 where he is 5 yards towards the Bears bench well outside that right hashmark and well after kicking it to the sideline--Knox is about to catch the ball. He kicked it about 3-4 years to the left of the right hashmark. So he is 8-9 yards in the wrong direction after the hang time.  You said previously: "I am guessing Masthay thought the punt was going out of bounds"...if he thought that, he sure is headed to the wrong sideline (thus the smart arse icon).

Fact is, his role is to be the guardian angel there, whether he could tackle him or to slow him down--and to be the communication quarterback on the play alerting his team that he did indeed kick it left as planned and that is was a dupe.  He failed on two critical aspects of it when he was the only one on his team who actually knew that he punted it left.  MAJOR FAIL. 

Far from "jogging to the wrong sideline".  It appears your wise arse icon was misplaced.

He is the safety valve.  Perhaps, rather than the rudimentary analysis to describe him as an idiot, he thought that there was a pass back set up?  Who knows, but as I said before, it did not matter.  They had a blocker to account for him and he actually made a decent attempt (for a punter) to make the tackle.

If you also look at the picture frame, he is following the flight of the ball.  He is facing that direction, even though he is on the other side of the right hash.  But, let's assume he was on the left side of the left hash.  What difference would it have made?

It was a well designed play by the Bears to fool the Packers.  Does not mean the punter was an idiot.  To each their own, I guess.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Far from "jogging to the wrong sideline".  It appears your wise arse icon was misplaced.

He is the safety valve.  Perhaps, rather than the rudimentary analysis to describe him as an idiot, he thought that there was a pass back set up?  Who knows, but as I said before, it did not matter.  They had a blocker to account for him and he actually made a decent attempt (for a punter) to make the tackle.

If you also look at the picture frame, he is following the flight of the ball.  He is facing that direction, even though he is on the other side of the right hash.  But, let's assume he was on the left side of the left hash.  What difference would it have made?

It was a well designed play by the Bears to fool the Packers.  Does not mean the punter was an idiot.  To each their own, I guess.

It is funny the lengths you describe a guy clearly out of position by any reasonable standard.  First you say:  "I am guessing Masthay thought the punt was going out of bounds"...so explain why he is floating toward the Bear sideline?  "Misplaced" is where he is on the field if the called play design was to punt it left which is where he actually punted it. The difference is he needs to be in position to play that safety role, and not follow the lemmings.  He, like the other players, did NOT stay in their lanes and broke responsibility--that is as "rudimentary" as it gets.  Worse, he knew he punted it left, but still floated way right--which in my book makes him an "idiot". 

I await your next excuse theory.   

[tower912]

The secondary is adequate but not great.  The day will come when the d-line is neutralized and they have to make plays all day.   We will see what happens then.  The linebackers are better.     The D-line has yet to truly dominate a game, but the other teams have been scheming to hold off the d-line, leaving others to make plays and limiting the time the secondary has to cover.  

The larger concern is the offensive line and the running game.    Stafford has not shown the ability to take a lot of hits.

Feeling pretty good about this comment through the first half of the Dallas game.   Secondary is not making plays when they need to, Stafford is showing happy feet, no running game.

[nyg]

Feeling pretty good about this comment through the first half of the Dallas game.   Secondary is not making plays when they need to, Stafford is showing happy feet, no running game.

Well they made the plays and Calvin Johnson is probably the best player in NFL.  Winning away games is a big plus for them.  Packers will plummel the Broncos today, Bears just got by, so good competition in the North.

[wadesworld]

The only thing that I think is a sure bet within this division right now is that the Vikings will end up in last place, for the second consecutive year.  They are embarrassingly bad.  Otherwise it's very hard to say what will happen based on who's beat who, because everyone is beating everyone in the NFL.

- Bears at 2-2.  Lost to the Packers and Saints, but so will a lot of teams.  Beat what was supposed to be an improved Atlanta team that was the 1 seed going into the playoffs last year, but now they're 1-2 now and struggling to put away the Seahawks in the 4th quarter right now, so who knows about them.  Squeeked by Carolina, just like everyone is doing against Carolina.
- Lions at 4-0.  Beat an up-and-coming Tampa team who is now 2-1 and should be 3-1 after this weekend.  Then beat 2 terrible (Vikings and Chiefs) teams and 1 pretty bad team (Cowboys) and had to come back against all of them.  Does show they will not back down no matter what the deficit.
- Packers at 4-0.  Beat maybe the 2nd best team in the NFL in the Saints, but it was the first game since winning the Super Bowl, emotionally charged game, and took a goal line stand to win the game.  Barely beat the Panthers and killed an awful Broncos team.  Best thing they have going right now is a road win against one of the contenders in the division in the Bears.

Will be interesting to see when the Lions and Packers play each other and play some of their tougher games.

[tower912]

Ecstatic about the comeback, irked that it was necessary.     The secondary turned it around in the second half, but Romo certainly made it easy.

[reinko]

Ecstatic about the comeback, irked that it was necessary.     The secondary turned it around in the second half, but Romo certainly made it easy.

wow, as a lions fan, only took a couple of weeks to become this entitled, eh?   

[tower912]

No.   I actually have not drank the kool-aid and think we should be 2-2.   I just don't think Dallas is that good.  Neither is Minnesota.   And we were 20 pts down to each.  I did not like the body language in the first half, either from Stafford, the o-line, or the entire defense.   They didn't compete and I flashed back to every other Lion team in my lifetime.   So  I turned off the game at half time and played Wii with my 4 year old for an hour.     Big stage next week against the Bears on MNF.   I will not be surprised if the Lions can't handle success and lay a huge egg. 

[DegenerateDish]

I'm not going to say the Bears dominated today, but I wouldn't say they squeaked by. If you are saying that based on just the final score, it's not accurate. Carolina scored a garbage TD with seconds left to cut it to less than a TD.

[Lennys Tap]

I'm not going to say the Bears dominated today, but I wouldn't say they squeaked by. If you are saying that based on just the final score, it's not accurate. Carolina scored a garbage TD with seconds left to cut it to less than a TD.

Chicago also scored a garbage TD with just over a minute left. In addition, the Bears scored a special teams TD, a defensive TD and blocked a FG. Carolina outgained Chigago about 550 to 350 yards (most yards by the Panthers in their history?). Bottom line, I'm a Bear fan but they were very lucky to win today.

[wadesworld]

I'm not going to say the Bears dominated today, but I wouldn't say they squeaked by. If you are saying that based on just the final score, it's not accurate. Carolina scored a garbage TD with seconds left to cut it to less than a TD.

Didn't watch any of the 2nd half but had it on ESPN's Gamecast on my computer.  I think the Gamecast was freaking out, but at one point in the 3rd quarter (it was a 3 point game at the time I believe) it said Carolina had first and goal at the 1 and did not come away with any points.  Shortly after it said 1st and goal from the 43 then, so I knew it was freaking out at that point, but I thought maybe they actually did have first and goal at the 1 and didn't score.  Looking at that and then the final score it seemed like they squeeked by.  If that was wrong then they may not have squeeked by.

[MerrittsMustache]

Chicago also scored a garbage TD with just over a minute left. In addition, the Bears scored a special teams TD, a defensive TD and blocked a FG. Carolina outgained Chigago about 550 to 350 yards (most yards by the Panthers in their history?). Bottom line, I'm a Bear fan but they were very lucky to win today.

You mean the game-sealing TD? That counts as a "garbage" TD to you?

The fact is, the Bears didn't play very well but they made more bigs play and fewer bad plays. As far as the yardage, the return TDs gave the Panthers 2 extra possessions and they ended up running 23 more plays than the Bears (Carolina actually had 13 possessions to the Bears' 10 because of a Cutler pick). They also had a 77-yard scoring drive against a prevent D when the outcome was no longer in doubt.

Offensively, the Bears actually decided to play to their strengths and give Forte the ball. The D was very unimpressive in the first half, giving up big chunks of yardage. They buckled down in the second half and held Carolina to just 3 points prior to the late score. It definitely wasn't the Bears' best day but they did enough to win.

[Jay Bee]

Really setting up to be quite a story this year - from 0-4 to 12-4 and the Super Bowl?  SKOL VIKINGS!

The amazing thing is that the Vikings aren't even close to being as bad as the University of Minnesota's football team. 

I'll be cheering for the Lions to win the division.

[mugrad2006]

Really setting up to be quite a story this year - from 0-4 to 12-4 and the Super Bowl?  SKOL VIKINGS!

The amazing thing is that the Vikings aren't even close to being as bad as the University of Minnesota's football team. 

I'll be cheering for the Lions to win the division.

You can't spell SKOL VIKINGS without O and four. 

Detroit's lucky they don't play the Pack until Thanksgiving, it'll give them hope they have a chance at the division for another month.