Bennie Seltzer Dismissed by Samford

[keefe]

Exceptionally high player turnover

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24466354/hirings-and-firings-2014-college-basketball-coaching-changes

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I don't see the Crean coaching tree going too many places...

[keefe]

I don't see the Crean coaching tree going too many places...

A lot of crash and burns

[The Lens]

One of TC's assisants went on to make 2 sweet 16's and an Elite 8. Plus a Big East title. 

I always give credit to TC for giving us Buzz.

#squirmy

[4everwarriors]

Exceptionally high player turnover

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24466354/hirings-and-firings-2014-college-basketball-coaching-changes

Learned from the master.

[Nukem2]

One of TC's assisants went on to make 2 sweet 16's and an Elite 8. Plus a Big East title. 

I always give credit to TC for giving us Buzz.

#squirmy

Agree with TC hiring Buzz, but Buzz only worked for TC for 8 months.  Hardly counts as being part of the "TC tree".

[ChicosBailBonds]

Brian Wardle
Tod Kowalcyzk
Buzz Williams
Darrin Horn
Bennie Seltzer

Seltzer is the only DI coach from the "tree" with a losing record, not surprisingly when you have take on a program like Samford.

[Nukem2]

Brian Wardle
Tod Kowalcyzk
Buzz Williams
Darrin Horn
Bennie Seltzer

Seltzer is the only DI coach from the "tree" with a losing record, not surprisingly when you have take on a program like Samford.

Horn did well at Western Kentucky, but was fired at South Carolina after going 60-63.  His future as a high major HC is not bright...?  Wardle & Kowalczyk are sort of stuck at a mid-major level for the forseeable future.  Seltzer had an unenviable task.  As noted above, Buzz only worked for TC 8 months.  The TC tree is not growing either.  No knock on TC, just what it is.

[HutchwasClutch]

Brian Wardle
Tod Kowalcyzk
Buzz Williams
Darrin Horn
Bennie Seltzer

Seltzer is the only DI coach from the "tree" with a losing record, not surprisingly when you have take on a program like Samford.

Tim Buckley should be on the list.  Very modest success early on at Ball State as I recall, but ultimately let go, and back to Crean he went.

I will say this about Buckley, he has 1000x more class than Crean, he was the one looking horrified and disillusioned at Crean's "You wrecked the program" rant following their Big Ten title on Michigan's home court.

Probably a good guy, but not head coaching material. 

[keefe]

The TC tree is not growing either. 

I am sure the word is out on what a joy it is to study at the feet of The Master

[HutchwasClutch]

Tim Buckley should be on the list.  Very modest success early on at Ball State as I recall, but ultimately let go, and back to Crean he went.

I will say this about Buckley, he has 1000x more class than Crean, he was the one looking horrified and disillusioned at Crean's "You wrecked the program" rant following their Big Ten title on Michigan's home court.

Probably a good guy, but not head coaching material. 

Actually had an overall and conference winning record at Ball State.  Although three of his last four years there were losing seasons, with the only winning one a 15-13 mark.  What saved his tenure there was a 23-12 overall and NIT quarters second season.  Otherwise, mediocre to below average overall for him.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Horn did well at Western Kentucky, but was fired at South Carolina after going 60-63.  His future as a high major HC is not bright...?  Wardle & Kowalczyk are sort of stuck at a mid-major level for the forseeable future.  Seltzer had an unenviable task.  As noted above, Buzz only worked for TC 8 months.  The TC tree is not growing either.  No knock on TC, just what it is.

It just seemed as though the list was a little short of all the facts, not surprising around here.

We'll see what happens of Wardle and TK.  Both have done well at their schools.  TK took over a horrible situation at Toledo (4-28) and in his 4th year (this past season) had them 27-7.  Wardle had a very nice year.  I would hardly paint either one as forever mid major level at this point. 

Horn was up for a gig, and turned it down.  He's having fun with his $2.4M buyout right now, and then will get back into it.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Tim Buckley should be on the list.  Very modest success early on at Ball State as I recall, but ultimately let go, and back to Crean he went.

I will say this about Buckley, he has 1000x more class than Crean, he was the one looking horrified and disillusioned at Crean's "You wrecked the program" rant following their Big Ten title on Michigan's home court.

Probably a good guy, but not head coaching material. 

Having worked with both, I will definitely confirm that comment.  When my dad died suddenly I was working in the department.  Upon my return from California from the funeral, Tim Buckley stopped by and must have spoken to me for about an hour.  I didn't know Tim very well at the time, but he shared his life experience of losing both parents at a young age.  After that, we share a few more deep conversations that showed me what kind of person he was.

That being said, he does stay with TC which also leads me to believe that sometimes we don't always know everything about a person...that includes TC or TB or anyone else. 

[keefe]

he does stay with TC which also leads me to believe that sometimes we don't always know everything about a person...

Sure we do. Bob Cratchit put up with "a squeezing, wrenching, grasping, scraping, clutching, covetous, old sinner" for years. Fortunately, Ebenezer Scrooge was transformed through the intercession of Jacob Marley. Tanned Tommy, on the other hand, receives his moral and humanitarian guidance from the Harbaughs - one of America's most perversely self-entitled clans.

We know enough about The Bronzed Beast to recognize him for the sh1t bag he truly is. Buckley eats Crean's corn and peanuts because for better or for worse The Shameless Shamster is his meal ticket. If you are still in touch with Buckley the least you could do is to get him a bib, finger bowl, and after dinner mint to take some of the messiness out of his daily diet of Tanned Turds.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Agree with TC hiring Buzz, but Buzz only worked for TC for 8 months.  Hardly counts as being part of the "TC tree".

Oh come now, don't you know Buzz turned Wes Matthews from afterthought into a NBA player in just 8 months.  Or that Buzz had a losing record as a head coach until he was under the sage advice of TC?

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

I brought this up during our coaching search, but I wonder if Wardle doesn't regret taking that UWGB job rather than moving up program-wise as an assistant. I've got to imagine Marquette is his dream job and, in my mind, his resume is superior to Wojo's. Don't get me wrong, I am happy with the Wojo hire and he's been a real breath of fresh air. I did not want Wardle hired, yet I have to ask myself, why that was the case. Wardle has been a high major assistant and now a D1 head coach, whereas Wojo has only been an assistant.

Is there a preferred path these days?

[Nukem2]

Oh come now, don't you know Buzz turned Wes Matthews from afterthought into a NBA player in just 8 months.  Or that Buzz had a losing record as a head coach until he was under the sage advice of TC?

I think it was Dale Layer that helped Wes refine his game (no teal necessary for this observation )....

[GGGG]

It just seemed as though the list was a little short of all the facts, not surprising around here.

So of the five you mentioned, two are unemployed, two are at mid-majors and haven't been to the tournament, and one worked for him for one season and Crean had little influence on his development.

Those are the facts.  Not exactly stellar.  

[GGGG]

I brought this up during our coaching search, but I wonder if Wardle doesn't regret taking that UWGB job rather than moving up program-wise as an assistant. I've got to imagine Marquette is his dream job and, in my mind, his resume is superior to Wojo's. Don't get me wrong, I am happy with the Wojo hire and he's been a real breath of fresh air. I did not want Wardle hired, yet I have to ask myself, why that was the case. Wardle has been a high major assistant and now a D1 head coach, whereas Wojo has only been an assistant.

Is there a preferred path these days?

The problem with being at a mid-major is that you have to do something significant to get noticed.  Wardle hasn't done much of anything yet. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

So of the five you mentioned, two are unemployed, two are at mid-majors and haven't been to the tournament, and one worked for him for one season and Crean had little influence on his development.

Those are the facts.  Not exactly stellar.  

That's the coaching business, they come and go.  And no, those are not all facts you just stated....you have no idea what influence he had, that is an opinion.

You are right, not exactly stellar, not bad either.  All of them with winning DI coaching records except one. 

What is factual, TK and BW both got to a tournament this year at those mid majors while TC and Buzz didn't.

[ChicosBailBonds]

The problem with being at a mid-major is that you have to do something significant to get noticed.  Wardle hasn't done much of anything yet. 

Horizon League Coach of the Year this year.  He's only been a head coach for four years. 

[GGGG]

Horizon League Coach of the Year this year.  He's only been a head coach for four years. 

He hasn't done much of anything.  Horizon League coach of the year isn't anything.

[ChicosBailBonds]

He hasn't done much of anything.  Horizon League coach of the year isn't anything.

It means you were judged by your peers to be the best coach in that league that year.  Don't be that guy.  He is young, he earned the highest distinction an individual coach can receive in his league.

Brad Stevens won that award not long ago. 

[77ncaachamps]

It means you were judged by your peers to be the best coach in that league that year.  Don't be that guy.  He is young, he earned the highest distinction an individual coach can receive in his league.

Brad Stevens won that award not long ago. 

That award has some big names attached to it (Pete Gillen, Barry Collier, Skip Prosser, Thad Matta, Bruce Pearl) but also now unknowns (Joe Sexson, Don Sicko, Dick Acres).

The difference between Wardle and Stevens is that Brad, in his ONLY five years at the Butler helm - and D1 head coaching at that, went
NCAA 2nd Rd
NCAA 1st Rd
NCAA Runner-Up
NCAA Runner-Up again
NCAA 3rd Rd

Wardle's first four years?
7th Horizon
7th Horizon
T-3rd Horizon
NIT 1st Round

World's difference. In fact, you could say Wardle should have an advantage as a former D1 player. But for whatever reason, Stevens's ability to judge talent, secure it, coach it, and get results was 1000x more effective.

[keefe]

The problem with being at a mid-major is that you have to do something significant to get noticed.  Wardle hasn't done much of anything yet. 

That's bull. Wardle had The Soiled Player Incident.

[Nukem2]

He hasn't done much of anything.  Horizon League coach of the year isn't anything.

It is something. Unfortunately, GB did not win the conference tourney (with that prized NCAA bid) despite being the heavy favorite playing on its home court.  For mid-major coaches, they need to get to the NCAAs and NIT to get noticed and rewarded.  Obviously, Brad Stevens and Thad Matta and John Groce  (for examples) succeeded in that regard.  For many mid-major coaches, they just toil in obscurity unless they get those magic bids as Darrin Horn did at WKU before getting the job at So. Carolina  But, that also "proves" that getting to the high majors may not be a panacea for future success.

[keefe]

Don Sicko

C'mon. You made this name up. Is he related to Jimmy Pervert or Harry Frottage?

[GGGG]

It means you were judged by your peers to be the best coach in that league that year.  Don't be that guy.  He is young, he earned the highest distinction an individual coach can receive in his league.

And really?  *You* are going to tell *me* not to be "that guy?"  F*ck you.  You are "that guy" more than anyone else in this place.

Conference coach of the year is not meaningless, but it isn't much more.  It just means he won the regular season.  And he did so after three mediocre years.  Let's see what happens moving forward.

[willie warrior]

I am sure the word is out on what a joy it is to study at the feet of The Master

Keefe;

Sultan heard the word several years ago about the joy of being at the feet of the previous MU master, the Buzzster. Plenty of worshlurping has gone on there.

[4everwarriors]

Crean sucks

[keefe]

Crean sucks

C'mon Doc, share the wealth. We need stories from Tanned Tommy Taming the Tees! This I have got to hear!

[The Lens]

The most successful period post Al...aka the Buzz Williams era... Is 100% bc of TC.

Tommy gave us Buzz.  His tree is an evergreen.  He's like the Bill Walsh of the NCAA.  Of course Bill Walsh didn't leave such squirmy coaches behind.  Bill Walsh had class and would  never employ such squirmy coaches.  

[ChicosBailBonds]

It is something. Unfortunately, GB did not win the conference tourney (with that prized NCAA bid) despite being the heavy favorite playing on its home court.  For mid-major coaches, they need to get to the NCAAs and NIT to get noticed and rewarded.  Obviously, Brad Stevens and Thad Matta and John Groce  (for examples) succeeded in that regard.  For many mid-major coaches, they just toil in obscurity unless they get those magic bids as Darrin Horn did at WKU before getting the job at So. Carolina  But, that also "proves" that getting to the high majors may not be a panacea for future success.

His team had some key injuries down the stretch, or I think they win the Horizon Tournament.  He did a nice job coaching this years, especially in light of the allegations so fresh against him and whether they would be able to recover and put together a good season.  Kudos to him.

[77ncaachamps]

C'mon. You made this name up. Is he related to Jimmy Pervert or Harry Frottage?

http://statsheet.com/mcb/coaches/don-sicko

[4everwarriors]

C'mon Doc, share the wealth. We need stories from Tanned Tommy Taming the Tees! This I have got to hear!

Got so bad he quit tryin' to play in celebrity/charity events. Suffice it to say he makes Barkley look like Tiger.

[GGGG]

That's the coaching business, they come and go.  And no, those are not all facts you just stated....you have no idea what influence he had, that is an opinion.

Actually I do have a fairly good idea about how much influence TC had on BW.  Not much.

[bilsu]

I like Wardle, but major success depends upon recruiting. I am not sure he can recruit well enough.  Was he smart or lucky in getting Brown and Sykes who were virtually overlooked by the big boys?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Actually I do have a fairly good idea about how much influence TC had on BW.  Not much.

Fairly good idea...."sounds like fact"   

[ChicosBailBonds]

That award has some big names attached to it (Pete Gillen, Barry Collier, Skip Prosser, Thad Matta, Bruce Pearl) but also now unknowns (Joe Sexson, Don Sicko, Dick Acres).

The difference between Wardle and Stevens is that Brad, in his ONLY five years at the Butler helm - and D1 head coaching at that, went
NCAA 2nd Rd
NCAA 1st Rd
NCAA Runner-Up
NCAA Runner-Up again
NCAA 3rd Rd

Wardle's first four years?
7th Horizon
7th Horizon
T-3rd Horizon
NIT 1st Round

World's difference. In fact, you could say Wardle should have an advantage as a former D1 player. But for whatever reason, Stevens's ability to judge talent, secure it, coach it, and get results was 1000x more effective.

One, your data is wrong.  Stevens was the head coach at Butler 6 years, not 5.  He went to the CBI tournament his 5th year, not the NCAA tournament.


Point is, why the cheap shot on Wardle for winning the highest honor his league has?  What's he supposed to do, try to win the COY for the Big Ten while coaching in the Horizon?  He won the award, no cheap shot necessary.

Why would Wardle have an advantage as a former D1 player?  Plenty of very good coaches never played the game ever in their life.  

It also matters what a coach inherits.  Stevens took over a team that went to the Sweet 16 the year prior that earned the then Butler head coach the National Coach of the Year award.  Preceding him, was another guy named Thad Matta.  At any rate, in his (Stevens) first two years got them to the NCAA with one win in those two years.   Butler hoops, just a smidge more history, talent, etc than UWGB.

Wardle took over a team that last went to the NCAAs in 1996...when Wardle was a junior at Hinsdale High.

[keefe]

Wardle was a junior at Hinsdale High.

A buddy of mine from my Viper days is a UAL Captain and lives in Hinsdale. From what I could tell of his neighborhood it wasn't really the Projects.

[ChicosBailBonds]

And really?  *You* are going to tell *me* not to be "that guy?"  F*ck you.  You are "that guy" more than anyone else in this place.

Conference coach of the year is not meaningless, but it isn't much more.  It just means he won the regular season.  And he did so after three mediocre years.  Let's see what happens moving forward.

Aww, struck a nerve.  I think there is no better argument than the "but he does it too".  It's like Godwin's law.

Don't be that guy, from "that guy"....     See, I would know and I'd hate for you to be like me.

By the way, for the sake of the children, please just type out unnatural carnal knowledge you because it comes back as unnatural carnal knowledge and we all know what it means.  Taking it that extra step, it's just bad taste. 

[GGGG]

Aww, struck a nerve.  I think there is no better argument than the "but he does it too".  It's like Godwin's law.

Actually I didn't make that argument numbnuts.  I made the *opposite* of that argument.

But logic has never been one of your strong suits.

[Lennys Tap]

But logic has never been one of your strong suits.

Yeah, the logic elevator doesn't stop on Chico's floor.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Yeah, the logic elevator doesn't stop on Chico's floor.

Sure it does....just like when you don't like voting results your logic muscle kicks in and you have to explain that the results must not be right because they don't agree with yours.  Now that's logic for you.  LOL

[ChicosBailBonds]

Actually I didn't make that argument numbnuts.  I made the *opposite* of that argument.

But logic has never been one of your strong suits.

No, you said:

"And really?  *You* are going to tell *me* not to be "that guy?"  F*ck you.  You are "that guy" more than anyone else in this place."

Translation, you are going to tell me how to act when you do it all the time.  F you, I'll do as I damn please and you are the last person to tell.  If it is good for you, it is good for me.

SMOOCH.  Hugs.  Kisses.

[Dawson Rental]

No, you said:

"And really?  *You* are going to tell *me* not to be "that guy?"  F*ck you.  You are "that guy" more than anyone else in this place."

Translation, you are going to tell me how to act when you do it all the time.  F you, I'll do as I damn please and you are the last person to tell.  If it is good for you, it is good for me.

SMOOCH.  Hugs.  Kisses.

Does MUScoop have a sexual harassment policy?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Does MUScoop have a sexual harassment policy?

I believe just a harassment policy.  Though, Sultan did ask me to go unnatural carnal knowledge myself in the last 24 hours.

[GGGG]

No, you said:

"And really?  *You* are going to tell *me* not to be "that guy?"  F*ck you.  You are "that guy" more than anyone else in this place."

Translation, you are going to tell me how to act when you do it all the time.  F you, I'll do as I damn please and you are the last person to tell.  If it is good for you, it is good for me.

SMOOCH.  Hugs.  Kisses.

Of course you left out the part where you said "don't be that guy first."  But again...logic isn't your strong suit.

[leever]

I believe just a harassment policy.  Though, Sultan did ask me to go unnatural carnal knowledge myself in the last 24 hours.

Please check your facts on this!  (To protect the children as you asked, I will substitute the word 'aardvark' for the 'f-word'.  unnatural carnal knowledge is just so cumbersome )

I don't think Sultan requested that you aardvark yourself.  He merely said "Aardvark you".  Not sure who was supposed to do the aardvark-ing.  Just hurling an expletive.  Not really a call for self aardvark-ing.

[Lennys Tap]

Of course you left out the part where you said "don't be that guy first."  But again...logic isn't your strong suit.

He consistent. Not logical, but consistent.

[Galway Eagle]

Wardle took over a team that last went to the NCAAs in 1996...when Wardle was a junior at Hinsdale High.

That's hinsdale central high school.  Not just hinsdale.

A buddy of mine from my Viper days is a UAL Captain and lives in Hinsdale. From what I could tell of his neighborhood it wasn't really the Projects.

It's definitely not. It's classic far out Chicago suburbs.  Money, big backyards and subdivisions... Nicest mcdonalds I've ever seen

[Skatastrophy]

Of course you left out the part where you said "don't be that guy first."  But again...logic isn't your strong suit.

If you and Chicos want to make it official, you can get married in WI now.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I didn't realize this when Keefe first started this thread but Seltzer was not just fired for turnover. He was fired for EXTREME turnover.

Samford had no seniors on last year's team. That means with an entire returning core and some new recruits, Samford was poised for a good year. Not good for a normal team, but good for a team that plays in the Southern conference. Could have maybe even challenged for the conference title.

Despite being set for a good 2014-2015 campaign, 7 players transferred out of Samford, 4 starters and the top 3 bench players, including their all conference stud Tim Williams (would love to land him btw). Now Williams is understandable, he's got size and high major talent. Kids like that leave southern conference programs all the time. But to have six players go with him? That's a major red flag. I don't know if Seltzer deserves the blame for that, but it's a sign that something isn't right.

[keefe]

you aardvark yourself.  He merely said "Aardvark you".  Not sure who was supposed to do the aardvark-ing.   Not really a call for self aardvark-ing.

One of the great Commie Killing Machines ever. The F 111 Aardvark. Magnificent.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

I had a friend stationed at Lakenheath.

[keefe]

I had a friend stationed at Lakenheath.

I was at RAF Bicester back in my Viper days. Developed a taste for warm hand pulled. It was good living.

[Spotcheck Billy]

I was at RAF Bicester back in my Viper days. Developed a taste for warm hand pulled. It was good living.

come on man, this is a family board

[keefe]

come on man, this is a family board

Drinking in the UK:


The Dream























The Reality

[Spotcheck Billy]

thanks, made the joke completely worth it!

[ChicosBailBonds]

One of the great Commie Killing Machines ever. The F 111 Aardvark. Magnificent.

I think you should have some more respect for some of the Commies on this board...we don't want a hostile board.

[4everwarriors]

Could swear the first 5 broads are Israeli soldiers, aina?

[keefe]

Could swear the first 5 broads are Israeli soldiers, aina?

L'chaim!

[Dawson Rental]

I was at RAF Bicester back in my Viper days. Developed a taste for warm hand pulled. It was good living.

Are you sure you didn't mean warm, jug served?

[keefe]

Are you sure you didn't mean warm, jug served?

Actually, no. A lot of pubs in UK still have cask beer on offer. It is literally hand pumped and therefore takes about 15 minutes to pull a pint due to all the foam. We worked in London but bought a place in Winchester for the sake of being in the countryside. I used to stop in at the Black Boy for a pint on my walk home from the train station. I would call ahead from the train and the bar maid would have a pint ready for me when I walked in. The Brit pub culture is fascinating. It takes a while to gain trust but once you're in it becomes a second home. 

[barfolomew]

That's hinsdale central high school.  Not just hinsdale.

Money, big backyards and subdivisions... Nicest mcdonalds I've ever seen

That's because it's down the road from the corporate headquarters in Oak Brook and many executives live in Hinsdale.
I saw former CEO Jim Skinner in there a few years back.

[Galway Eagle]

That's because it's down the road from the corporate headquarters in Oak Brook and many executives live in Hinsdale.
I saw former CEO Jim Skinner in there a few years back.

Isn't that Ogden and York?  I feel like there's lesser McDonalds between the headquarters on 22nd over by the mall.  I mean I could be completely wrong it just never made sense why that Mcdonalds wasn't the one like at the Oak Brook mall

[barfolomew]

Isn't that Ogden and York?  I feel like there's lesser McDonalds between the headquarters on 22nd over by the mall.  I mean I could be completely wrong it just never made sense why that Mcdonalds wasn't the one like at the Oak Brook mall

Yes, you're right -- the one on 22nd is the test location and I think where the Hamburger University grads have to spend a day, when they go off the corporate campus.
I'm not sure either why the York Rd. one got the funky design.

[keefe]

Yes, you're right -- the one on 22nd is the test location and I think where the Hamburger University grads have to spend a day, when they go off the corporate campus.
I'm not sure either why the York Rd. one got the funky design.

Action shot inside the High End McDonald's

[4everwarriors]

'hole lotta Big Macs goin' down.

[keefe]

'hole lotta Big Macs goin' down.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Are you sure you didn't mean warm, jug served?

Well played Murray.  Over the Colonel's head like an F-15E Strike Eagle.

[keefe]

Well played Murray.  Over the Colonel's head like an F-15E Strike Eagle.

Wow. Fox Three right up the a$$. Crash and burn. Murray gets the kill.