2021-22 Big East Conference Results

[Scoop Snoop]

Is it a bad thing if their players transfer?

Not at all. Actually, if Ewing is serious about thinking that Georgetown will give him another year, the departure of players may make it easier for GT to say "no way!" to Ewing.

Georgetown under Ewing will almost certainly continue to be a drain on the BE as well as an embarrassment. There is little to gain by beating them unless you blow them out. Marquette's NET got dinged for not beating them by a wider margin. The sooner Ewing is gone, the better for the BE.

[wadesworld]

Not at all. Actually, if Ewing is serious about thinking that Georgetown will give him another year, the departure of players may make it easier for GT to say "no way!" to Ewing.

Georgetown under Ewing will almost certainly continue to be a drain on the BE as well as an embarrassment. There is little to gain by beating them unless you blow them out. Marquette's NET got dinged for not beating them by a wider margin. The sooner Ewing is gone, the better for the BE.

I meant is it a bad thing for Ewing if his players transfer?  His players aren't very good anyway.  If they're gone, so what?

[MU82]

I'd take Aminu Mohammed for sure - he'd thrive in Shaka's system, as would a couple of their other wings. I'd also take my chances on one of GU's 6-10+ guys.

[StillAWarrior]

Not at all. Actually, if Ewing is serious about thinking that Georgetown will give him another year, the departure of players may make it easier for GT to say "no way!" to Ewing.

Georgetown under Ewing will almost certainly continue to be a drain on the BE as well as an embarrassment. There is little to gain by beating them unless you blow them out. Marquette's NET got dinged for not beating them by a wider margin. The sooner Ewing is gone, the better for the BE.

Georgetown is a really strange place because, in my experience (fwiw), they are extremely frugal (read "cheap") in almost all things -- except MBB.* So, I'm really struggling to decide what I think they will do. They really need to end it...not sure whether they will.


* This was my first thought when Herman referenced a "hungry Georgetown squad" upthread -- some Georgetown squads might well be literally hungry on game day, but probably not the MBB team.

[Scoop Snoop]

I meant is it a bad thing for Ewing if his players transfer?  His players aren't very good anyway.  If they're gone, so what?

OK, now I catch your drift. If I had a second mug of coffee this morning, I would have seen it after the first reading.

It still is a really bad look for Ewing. He's the guy who brought them in. This reminds me of something (business related, but it works here) someone told me years ago. "If you fire someone and say 'he never was any good anyway', what you are really saying is 'I don't know how to hire'.

Ewing's track record for retaining talent is one of his biggest problems. And if he loses Mohammed, I disagree about that player "not being very good". He's not the only one that is capable of being a good player on another team, under a different coach, but I am not interested in getting into evaluating GT's players one at a time beyond Mohammed.

[brewcity77]

I meant is it a bad thing for Ewing if his players transfer?  His players aren't very good anyway.  If they're gone, so what?

I think it is. While his players aren't very good, he hasn't been great in the transfer portal and his 2022 recruiting class is pretty mediocre and there aren't really any big difference makers he could bring in at this point.

Transfers have been the biggest constant in the downward spiral of Ewing's tenure. The Hoyas went 19-14 in 2019 and were hoping to be a tourney team in 2020 but there was all the nonsense that led to Akinjo, Leblanc, and Alexander all leaving which led to Ewing's first losing record. Then after the COVID cancelled year, they lose McClung (who ends up in the NBA) and only due to their MSG miracle were they able to salvage what had been a 9-12 season. Now this year, they lose Wahab and Sibley (Wahab clearly the bigger deal) and are one of the worst teams in the history of the Big East.

They are likely to lose Donald Carey and Kaiden Rice. If Aminu Muhammed and anyone else went out the door, their already inept talent would be even more challenged. If Ewing does run it back and transfers hit them as hard as they have the past couple seasons, next year's Georgetown team could be far worse. As bad as they are, I don't think this is rock bottom if they stick with Ewing.

[The Equalizer]

Not at all. Actually, if Ewing is serious about thinking that Georgetown will give him another year, the departure of players may make it easier for GT to say "no way!" to Ewing.

Georgetown under Ewing will almost certainly continue to be a drain on the BE as well as an embarrassment. There is little to gain by beating them unless you blow them out. Marquette's NET got dinged for not beating them by a wider margin. The sooner Ewing is gone, the better for the BE.

Is it really?  In conference, the Big East is a zero-sum game. If they don't lose 17 games, someone else is going to have to pick up those losses. The bid-maximizing formula for the league is for a handful of teams to absorb as many of the league's losses as possible.  The more losses Georgetown takes, the more likely it is that Xaiver or Seton Hall have a shot at making the tourney.

Georgetown's favor of absorbing all the losses is a big part as to why the league is on the verge of seven NCAA bids, equalling the largest number of teams making the tournament since the restructuring.  That's hardly an embarrassment for the league.   Obviously it is for Georgetown, but if they didn't lose someone else would have to.

Nothing could be better for the Big East than for Georgetown to continue to absorb the league's losses. Especially now that it looks like DePaul might actually be getting serious about trying to win.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

So much for my prediction that Ewing will "do the right thing" for his beloved Hoyas. This is going to get really messy. I wonder how many of his current players will transfer at the end of this total fiasco of a season.

Mohammed to MU

[brewcity77]

Is it really?  In conference, the Big East is a zero-sum game. If they don't lose 17 games, someone else is going to have to pick up those losses. The bid-maximizing formula for the league is for a handful of teams to absorb as many of the league's losses as possible.  The more losses Georgetown takes, the more likely it is that Xaiver or Seton Hall have a shot at making the tourney.

Agreed. The dream scenario is to have your bottom feeders like that 2020 DePaul team. Go 12-1 in non-con, then lose to everyone in league play (except Marquette...doh). I think in terms of bid maximization, you want 3 teams that are absolutely terrible and everyone else to be good. If your top 8 teams are banking 5-6 wins off the bottom 3, they only need to go 5-9 against the rest of the league to have a legit shot at a bid.

[BrewCity83]

Agreed. The dream scenario is to have your bottom feeders like that 2020 DePaul team. Go 12-1 in non-con, then lose to everyone in league play (except Marquette...doh). I think in terms of bid maximization, you want 3 teams that are absolutely terrible and everyone else to be good. If your top 8 teams are banking 5-6 wins off the bottom 3, they only need to go 5-9 against the rest of the league to have a legit shot at a bid.

Yes, but not "absolutely terrible".  NET under 150 (?) so they are eminently beatable by the tourney-worthy teams in the conference and can win some decent non-con games.  If they are absolutely terrible our net suffers when we beat them by only 10 points.

Brew77, you're the NET guy--what would you say would be the ideal NET range for the bottom three in order to maximize bids for the other eight?

[Scoop Snoop]

Is it really?  In conference, the Big East is a zero-sum game. If they don't lose 17 games, someone else is going to have to pick up those losses. The bid-maximizing formula for the league is for a handful of teams to absorb as many of the league's losses as possible.  The more losses Georgetown takes, the more likely it is that Xaiver or Seton Hall have a shot at making the tourney.

Georgetown's favor of absorbing all the losses is a big part as to why the league is on the verge of seven NCAA bids, equalling the largest number of teams making the tournament since the restructuring.  That's hardly an embarrassment for the league.   Obviously it is for Georgetown, but if they didn't lose someone else would have to.

Nothing could be better for the Big East than for Georgetown to continue to absorb the league's losses. Especially now that it looks like DePaul might actually be getting serious about trying to win.

When a team is as bad as GT, of what value is a win? If you do not blow them out, you can get dinged in your NET as we did. I get that a couple of teams being the perennial cellar dwellers helps out the teams above them, but a "200 something" team?

Edit: I think Marquette will be in the top three next year. If the bottom becomes stronger, but not strong enough to beat us (a big if admittedly), we move up in NET rating. Also, we could afford a few somewhat close wins over the bottom teams without needing to blow them out.

[Herman Cain]

Is it really?  In conference, the Big East is a zero-sum game. If they don't lose 17 games, someone else is going to have to pick up those losses. The bid-maximizing formula for the league is for a handful of teams to absorb as many of the league's losses as possible.  The more losses Georgetown takes, the more likely it is that Xaiver or Seton Hall have a shot at making the tourney.

Georgetown's favor of absorbing all the losses is a big part as to why the league is on the verge of seven NCAA bids, equalling the largest number of teams making the tournament since the restructuring.  That's hardly an embarrassment for the league.   Obviously it is for Georgetown, but if they didn't lose someone else would have to.

Nothing could be better for the Big East than for Georgetown to continue to absorb the league's losses. Especially now that it looks like DePaul might actually be getting serious about trying to win.

Agreed. The dream scenario is to have your bottom feeders like that 2020 DePaul team. Go 12-1 in non-con, then lose to everyone in league play (except Marquette...doh). I think in terms of bid maximization, you want 3 teams that are absolutely terrible and everyone else to be good. If your top 8 teams are banking 5-6 wins off the bottom 3, they only need to go 5-9 against the rest of the league to have a legit shot at a bid.

I agree with this analysis

[brewcity77]

Yes, but not "absolutely terrible".  NET under 150 (?) so they are eminently beatable by the tourney-worthy teams in the conference and can win some decent non-con games.  If they are absolutely terrible our net suffers when we beat them by only 10 points.

Brew77, you're the NET guy--what would you say would be the ideal NET range for the bottom three in order to maximize bids for the other eight?

When I say absolutely terrible, I just mean in terms of league record. Win non-con, then lose everything once the calendar turns.

Ideally top-135. That makes it a Q2 road game, which helps if you get it but doesn't hurt much if you don't, and no worse than a Q3 on any floor.

While it's easy to hope for teams in the 60-75 range at the bottom, the Big 12 is seeing the drawback there. Oklahoma, K-State, and West Virginia are all probably good enough to be tourney teams, but the league cannibalized them and had TCU not beat Texas Tech this past week, the 8-bid Big 12 dream could've been down to 5. Like you said, "absolutely terrible" is hyperbole, but you also don't want your bad teams good enough to cost seeds or bids.

[The Equalizer]

When a team is as bad as GT, of what value is a win? If you do not blow them out, you can get dinged in your NET as we did. I get that a couple of teams being the perennial cellar dwellers helps out the teams above them, but a "200 something" team?

Edit: I think Marquette will be in the top three next year. If the bottom becomes stronger, but not strong enough to beat us (a big if admittedly), we move up in NET rating. Also, we could afford a few somewhat close wins over the bottom teams without needing to blow them out.

If you want to see what this looks like in reality, look at the ACC this year. The two teams tied for last (Georgia Tech and NC State) each have four wins.  The worst NET team (Pitt) has six wins in conference.  Their cellar is winning enough games to have some semblance of respectability with respect to conference records.

So is the rest of the ACC reaping the NET rewards that come from having more strength at the bottom of their conference? 

[DFW HOYA]

Nothing could be better for the Big East than for Georgetown to continue to absorb the league's losses. Especially now that it looks like DePaul might actually be getting serious about trying to win.

Disagree but It's hard for now to argue otherwise. It won't be good for the Big East if Georgetown is playing at the DC Armory before 1,500 a game next year, either.

[We R Final Four]

Someone needs to be in last place.

[DFW HOYA]

Someone needs to be in last place.

Well, it needs to be someone else. Georgetown spends $13.8 million a year and if last place is all they are capable of, dropping their budget to that of the football team ($2.0 million) might get some attention and a little more care and concern.

Anyway, I nominate Butler to take their place.

[panda]

Well, it needs to be someone else. Georgetown spends $13.8 million a year and if last place is all they are capable of, dropping their budget to that of the football team ($2.0 million) might get some attention and a little more care and concern.

Anyway, I nominate Butler to take their place.

If Georgetown doesn’t fire Ewing, they deserve the basement.

[Billy Hoyle]

Mohammed to MU

If “MU” is a G league or NBA team, then sure.

[We R Final Four]

Well, it needs to be someone else. Georgetown spends $13.8 million a year and if last place is all they are capable of, dropping their budget to that of the football team ($2.0 million) might get some attention and a little more care and concern.

Anyway, I nominate Butler to take their place.

Didnt mean to offend. I hear it every year. It is more commentary on the scoopers who pick Team X….and say the Big East needs: St Johns to be better…..we need DePaul to better………It will be great for the BIg East when UConn joins. 
Be careful wht toy ask for, because some team must be last.
Again,

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Anyway, I nominate Butler to take their place.

Seton Hall. The answer is Seton Hall.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

If “MU” is a G league or NBA team, then sure.

Ah, you and dad share a (lack of) sense of humor, too

[Herman Cain]

Cooley & Company fought their way back but not enough. Nice to see Villanova win, makes MU’s two wins look more impressive

[Scoop Snoop]

If you want to see what this looks like in reality, look at the ACC this year. The two teams tied for last (Georgia Tech and NC State) each have four wins.  The worst NET team (Pitt) has six wins in conference.  Their cellar is winning enough games to have some semblance of respectability with respect to conference records.

So is the rest of the ACC reaping the NET rewards that come from having more strength at the bottom of their conference?

I very specifically wrote about Georgetown, a 0-17 conference team. Teams above them in NET include Nicholls, Cornell and Mercer. Compare the 4-6 win teams you chose to represent the bottom of their conferences with Georgetown. Maybe we should add UIC and St. Thomas to the BE.

I'm done here.

[brewcity77]

Well, it needs to be someone else.

Actually, it doesn't. We probably thought the same thing here when we were picked to win the inaugural reformed Big East in 2014 and we finished sixth and out of the tourney before falling to last in 2015. But the Big East chugged right along and Nova won two titles with Marquette's positioning having no bearing.

Georgetown could go 0-for-the-Big-East for the next decade and as long as we're getting 6-7 bids as a league and getting some deep runs elsewhere, the league will be fine and no one outside your alumni base will care.

Would it be nice for Georgetown to be relevant? Sure, I guess, but it's no more important than the two biggest media markets of St John's or DePaul being relevant. As long as the league as a whole does well, the individual programs aren't that important.

Look around the country. The Big 10 has done fine with an irrelevant Indiana. The SEC has continued with Florida falling to mediocrity. The ACC's struggles aren't because of any one program, but because they are all having down years at the same time.

I accept that Marquette doesn't matter to the national or Big East landscape. I'm also glad Marquette's administration made the move they did because it DOES matter to us. For Georgetown, it's the same. You're the only ones that care, so if you want to be relevant, you need to be the ones to push your administration to do something about it.