COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")

[Pakuni]

I can’t speak for Eng but I share some of his sentiments.

And I don’t think it’s absolution. I’m sure he’s not speaking to people calling it a hoax or saying death counts would be lower than a flu season. But rather to the alternative to those championing most of the fearful projections.


Maybe they didn’t say “we are all gonna die” but there were people warning against people dropping dead on flights, bodies in the streets, broad deaths across all age groups, lockdowns into 2021, etc... That level of dire projections haven’t come true

Now you have places meeting metrics, beginning reponening, and people immediately began cautioning on the second wave how bad this was still gonna be, etc and I think people got fed up and over confident, which is what he’s speaking to.  And I’m not talking AZ or FL, I’m talking to the reaction of people in places like WI, OH, IL that are managing well. That sort of constant paranoia generation in the face of improving situations doesn’t breed vigilance, it breeds exhaustion and defiance.

I do think the irony here is the states I mentioned flattened the curve whereas the recent hotspots never did as they “started” their curves latter and opened prematurely. But here we are

Yeah, I'm still not buying the logic here.
I mean, first, I can think of no one in authority or a scientist who's been given a substantial platform here who's said "We're all going to die" or "there will be bodies in the street," etc. So unless I'm mistaken about that, the premise is false to begin with.
But for sake of argument, let's say that message was being put out there by political leaders or scientific experts. You argument then becomes "Because of some dire warnings, some people ignored ALL warnings, and neither the the fault of those people or those who encouraged them, but the fault of the people who gave the warnings."
I hurt my brain just typing that, because it makes no sense.

If a meteorologist warns of a Category 5 hurricane, but some people ignore the warning and get wiped out when a Category 4 passes through, do you blame the meteorologist, or the idiots who decided to ride it out? By your logic, the meteorologist shares the blame.

[Pakuni]

Appreciate your response, eng.

[GooooMarquette]

Tulsa, and so it begins:

https://apnews.com/23796a826ba86619527363b92ed49a33?utm_medium=AP&utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=Twitter

Campaign officials say everyone who is attending the rally will be given temperature checks before they pass through security. They will also be given masks to wear, if they want, and hand sanitizer at the 19,000-seat BOK Center.

-----------

It's going to be 88 and sunny in Tulsa this afternoon and people have been standing in line to get in since yesterday...and they're going to do temperature checks at Security (likely outside the venue)? Hint: lots of people will have elevated readings simply because they have been out in the sun on a hot day.

And given that the masks are optional, this picture of people in line might give a hint as to how many will agree to wear them....

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/06/20/nation/trump-supporters-line-up-rally-tulsa-with-thousands-people-expected-attend/

[JWags85]

Yeah, I'm still not buying the logic here.
I mean, first, I can think of no one in authority or a scientist who's been given a substantial platform here who's said "We're all going to die" or "there will be bodies in the street," etc. So unless I'm mistaken about that, the premise is false to begin with.
But for sake of argument, let's say that message was being put out there by political leaders or scientific experts. You argument then becomes "Because of some dire warnings, some people ignored ALL warnings, and neither the the fault of those people or those who encouraged them, but the fault of the people who gave the warnings."
I hurt my brain just typing that, because it makes no sense.

If a meteorologist warns of a Category 5 hurricane, but some people ignore the warning and get wiped out when a Category 4 passes through, do you blame the meteorologist, or the idiots who decided to ride it out? By your logic, the meteorologist shares the blame.

Eng addressed a lot of what I’m thinking, but for conversation sake.

Are we only talking people here? Cause there have been plenty of doom and gloom people given a platform either on news stations or online platforms that people can easily have exposed to, not talking what’s been championed here. Cause I thought he convo was the country as a whole.

And where did I ever f-ing absolve people being reckless? All I’ve done is explain where I understand some of the mentality of those who might not necessarily have been the “masks are against my liberty and this is a hoax” crowd. And where are you getting “ignored all warnings”. We’re talking people who went through a lockdown and caution and are now being extra cavalier. That isn’t justifying it, but I can see some of the COVID exhaustion from various angles that lead to apathy.

And I think it’s more projecting a CAT 5 hurricane to sweep across and ravage the US and instead it slammed a couple states and everywhere else got rain and some flooding. There is plenty of blame to go around, it doesn’t have to be completely tribal

[injuryBug]

Agreed. The timing is essentially perfect to correlate reopening to the resurgence in states where cases are increasing.

As to the disparity between places like TX, AZ and FL where cases are increasing vs the midwest and northeast where cases are decreasing, I think much of that can be attributed to the seriousness with which people in those parts of the country take social distancing, masks and such. Here in MN, it has been several weeks since I last saw a person in a grocery store without a mask. And cases in MN are declining steadily. Video I have seen from TX, FL and such seems to show a very different story.

It is not a re-opening thing it is more of a not flattening the curve thing. 

[Pakuni]

JWags ... appreciate your response and I'll mostly drop it, but one point - eng brought Trump in with his response and now you've suggested tribalism.  Just to be clear, I've written nothing about the president or politics in my comments to you guys.

[GooooMarquette]

It is not a re-opening thing it is more of a not flattening the curve thing.

I would define it has a “reopening before they flattened the curve” thing, with social distancing and masks also a big factor.

Some places (like Wisconsin and Minnesota) reopened before the curve was truly flattened, yet are still seeing a downward trend today. In my opinion, the consequences of the premature reopening was significantly mitigated by people exercising common sense. In other states (like Texas, Arizona and Florida), people don’t seem to be taking precautionary measures as seriously, so cases continue to rise.

There are almost certainly other factors at play as well, but re-opening without having flattened the curve was a big deal, as are precautionary measures.

[injuryBug]

I would define it has a “reopening before they flattened the curve” thing, with social distancing and masks also a big factor.

Some places (like Wisconsin and Minnesota) reopened before the curve was truly flattened, yet are still seeing a downward trend today. In my opinion, the consequences of the premature reopening was significantly mitigated by people exercising common sense. In other states (like Texas, Arizona and Florida), people don’t seem to be taking precautionary measures as seriously, so cases continue to rise.

There are almost certainly other factors at play as well, but re-opening without having flattened the curve was a big deal, as are precautionary measures.

I agree. 

[JWags85]

JWags ... appreciate your response and I'll mostly drop it, but one point - eng brought Trump in with his response and now you've suggested tribalism.  Just to be clear, I've written nothing about the president or politics in my comments to you guys.

Appreciated. It’s incredibly muddy by this point, but FWIW I wasn’t angle towards politics either. I feel even back in the early stages, there was the “the pandemic is gonna be horrific” camp and the “it’s being overblown” camp, before political lines were drawn. That’s more the tribalism I was leaning towards. People choosing their outlook and going with it

[Pakuni]

Appreciated. It’s incredibly muddy by this point, but FWIW I wasn’t angle towards politics either. I feel even back in the early stages, there was the “the pandemic is gonna be horrific” camp and the “it’s being overblown” camp, before political lines were drawn. That’s more the tribalism I was leaning towards. People choosing their outlook and going with it

That's fair.
I think we're all guilty of that with many things (see Nojos va Projos).

[shoothoops]

Tulsa, and so it begins:

https://apnews.com/23796a826ba86619527363b92ed49a33?utm_medium=AP&utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=Twitter

Well, a positive for COVID-19 spread purposes, at least the crowd is much smaller than the million advertised. Outside was canceled, inside less than half full this far.

https://twitter.com/Politidope/status/1274473702227353605?s=19

[Uncle Rico]

Well, a positive for COVID-19 spread purposes, at least the crowd is much smaller than the million advertised. Outside was canceled, inside less than half full this far.

https://twitter.com/Politidope/status/1274473702227353605?s=19

Having a rally in Tulsa was weird, anyway.  Oklahoma is safely (R).  This was the worse case scenario.  Honestly, if I’m an Oklahoman, I’d have been fine if this rally was elsewhere and you had less outsiders pouring in

[pbiflyer]

Appreciated. It’s incredibly muddy by this point, but FWIW I wasn’t angle towards politics either. I feel even back in the early stages, there was the “the pandemic is gonna be horrific” camp and the “it’s being overblown” camp, before political lines were drawn. That’s more the tribalism I was leaning towards. People choosing their outlook and going with it

That a disingenuous take. The pandemic is going to be horrific group camp never existed. It was it’s going to be horrific if we don’t lock down and give science and medical experts a chance camp. You conveniently left that part out.
You seem to be the person that they warned us about. The after the lockdown “see told you it wasn’t that bad, the virus wasn’t bad after all” group.
Most were pro science, realizing that things can change as we learn more.
In Florida, the median age of people that have got the virus has plummeted in the last couple of weeks.

Not sure why wear a mask, practice social distancing, wash your hands suddenly tribal, but it is.


Corrected to say tests not deaths.

[injuryBug]

That a disingenuous take. The pandemic is going to be horrific group camp never existed. It was it’s going to be horrific if we don’t lock down and give science and medical experts a chance camp. You conveniently left that part out.
You seem to be the person that they warned us about. The after the lockdown “see told you it wasn’t that bad, the virus wasn’t bad after all” group.
Most were pro science, realizing that things can change as we learn more.
In Florida, the median age of people that have dies has plummeted in the last couple of weeks. No longer is the “it just impacts old people” narrative valid.

Not sure why wear a mask, practice social distancing, wash your hands suddenly tribal, but it is.

pb check your facts the age for deaths is not down the age for those infected is.

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/coronavirus/fl-ne-coronavirus-florida-younger-20200620-zdbyrk6h25cwxak5h74cchirke-story.html

[pbiflyer]

pb check your facts the age for deaths is not down the age for those infected is.

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/coronavirus/fl-ne-coronavirus-florida-younger-20200620-zdbyrk6h25cwxak5h74cchirke-story.html

You are right.  Thanks. Will fix . My point still stands about the rest.

[Mutaman]

"When you do testing to that extent, you are going to find more people, you will find more cases. So I said slow the testing down."
—Trump on trying to keep the number of reported COVID cases low
6/20/20

[Uncle Rico]

"When you do testing to that extent, you are going to find more people, you will find more cases. So I said slow the testing down."
—Trump on trying to keep the number of reported COVID cases low
6/20/20

Big win for Muguru

[MU82]

Well, a positive for COVID-19 spread purposes, at least the crowd is much smaller than the million advertised. Outside was canceled, inside less than half full this far.

https://twitter.com/Politidope/status/1274473702227353605?s=19

This is the funniest story of 2020. President Pandemic totally punked  by a bunch of kids. Hilarious!

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

"When you do testing to that extent, you are going to find more people, you will find more cases. So I said slow the testing down."
—Trump on trying to keep the number of reported COVID cases low
6/20/20

Really it’s indefensible. Everyone knows it. Everyone knows the last couple of months have been a disaster. Wonder how many will have the guts to admit it come November?

[JWags85]

That a disingenuous take. The pandemic is going to be horrific group camp never existed. It was it’s going to be horrific if we don’t lock down and give science and medical experts a chance camp. You conveniently left that part out.
You seem to be the person that they warned us about. The after the lockdown “see told you it wasn’t that bad, the virus wasn’t bad after all” group.
Most were pro science, realizing that things can change as we learn more.
In Florida, the median age of people that have got the virus has plummeted in the last couple of weeks.

Not sure why wear a mask, practice social distancing, wash your hands suddenly tribal, but it is.


Corrected to say tests not deaths.

I’m disingenuous? I don’t have the patience of desire to start pulling articles or tweets from 2 months ago, but there were plenty of “warnings” about horrific consequences if the lockdown wasn’t indefinite. Calls for a halt to “normal” life well into 2021.  Wanton warnings about how this disease ravaged those of all ages as support for why longer scale lockdowns were needed.

Never once in any of my posts have I said “see told you it wasn’t that bad, the virus wasn’t bad after all”.  I’ve shown outsized worry about economic impacts and still very much feel that this virus is a non issue for a vast swath of the population, on an individual level, but that’s a far cry from “this was a hoax” or “this was just a flu”. I’ve never railed against mask wearing, clamored for dropping all precautions, or any of the BS you imply.

What people fail to acknowledge is the insidiousness of the camp of people who breathlessly report every uptick in cases or anecdotal story of an outbreak as fodder for “the second wave is going to be far worse” narratives. We’ve talked about it as nauseum. That’s the tribalism I speak of. You acting like the two camps are “F OFF, I DONT NEED A MASK” and “all we are asking is for people to wear a mask and practice social distance and food hygiene” is bizarrely disingenuous and blind to the more extreme factions cause they more closely align with your beliefs.

I can’t stand anyone who thinks they are too good for a mask or uses some stupid trope about freedom to justify it. But I also am equally sick of everyone pointing out a XX.X% increase in cases or positive tests in a locale with no reference to hospitalization numbers or trends, that likely bear out no severity of infections or cause for mortality concerns.  That kind of constant fear stoking eventually exhausts and desensitizes people and leads to recklessness cause people literally say “screw it” without something on their doorstep confirming it. I’m not saying that’s right or ok, but it’s not a unique phenomenon.

Tribalism is the BS that caused you to deem me what you did simply cause I don’t sit nice and tidy in your camp.

[pbiflyer]

Look at Europe. They are what we should strive toward. You can actually travel within Europe. They didn’t shut down until 2021. People here said we had to shut down until we  reduced the curve enough to do contact tracing. We haven’t reduced the curve at all and done no prep work for contact tracing.
So while it will be likely that our economy won’t be anywhere near normal until 2021, that is just due to American Freedom to be stupid.
Europe figured it out. We can’t do what they did because capitalism! Freedom! Other buzzwords!
As a nation, we’ve plateaued. We don’t follow even the most basic guidelines set by the CDC. Most states aren’t even trying to contact trace.
And it isn’t magically going away.
Our company isn’t planning on travel until at least 2021 and our customers have told us the same. NBA will not be showing up in Orlando in a month.
Reality is that it will be next year before there is any return to normal. You say people were saying we need To shut down until 2021. That wasn’t any large group or anyone in power, yet it seems to be the actual outcome.
Our local Home Depot had an employee test positive for Covid, yet they still don’t require employees or customers to wear masks, because Freedom!
Sorry you are offended that predictions that Americans are too stupid to handle this are coming true on a national level.

[GooooMarquette]

Over 120,000 Americans have died from this pandemic in four months. That’s more than 25% of worldwide deaths in under 5% of the world population. We passed horrific a few weeks ago.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Over 120,000 Americans have died from this pandemic in four months. That’s more than 25% of worldwide deaths in under 5% of the world population. We passed horrific a few weeks ago.

We’re still average though in the west, death wise.  The difference is that the first wave is done in EU while we have persistent spread.  So we are dealing with the economic and health consequences and carry more risk to the fall. 

For Wags. Life isn’t normal — it’s different and will likely be that way until a vaccine.  I think you can be mad at the media but some of it is a function of your news feed/internet.  If you read good journalism you will be informed.  If you want to be mad, there are plenty of places to find that on the internet too. 

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Decades of misplaced resources and breeding the notion that government is evil has lead to where we are right now.  A lot of people want to mock Europe for various reasons, but they are by and large performing much better than we are.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Test and trace

https://mobile.twitter.com/ScottGottliebMD/status/1274682110608097280