COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")

[MarquetteDano]

Again, absolutely terrifying that people here actually think this administration has properly handled the response to this global pandemic. At any step of the way, really.

Other countries mishandling their response to it doesn’t give our administration a free pass. As we say on Scoop, that is very dumb and dangerous thinking.

American Exceptionalism is dead. We now compare ourselves to other countries when convenient, and when we don't measure up we give excuses.

We are all to blame. Status quo is accepted on nearly every issue.

[StillAWarrior]

Again, absolutely terrifying that people here actually think this administration has properly handled the response to this global pandemic. At any step of the way, really.

I don't.  I really don't.  At all.  But I think it's absolutely terrifying that people here actually believe this administration (which includes people other than Trump, btw) has completely botched the response to this global pandemic at every step of the way.  I read things here and elsewhere that are are overly critical and untrue.  That's the problem with bias in either direction.  If someone is biased and attacks and/or defends everything then credibility is lost.  I agree Trump has little credibility because he lies and says stupid stuff.  Unfortunately, I also think many who criticize Trump have little credibility because they lie and say stupid stuff. As always, the truth lies in the middle.

I've tried to resist being drawn into the political.  I will now resume trying.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I don't.  I really don't.  At all.  But I think it's absolutely terrifying that people here actually believe this administration (which includes people other than Trump, btw) has completely botched the response to this global pandemic at every step of the way.  I read things here and elsewhere that are are overly critical and untrue.  That's the problem with bias in either direction.  If someone is biased and attacks and/or defends everything then credibility is lost.  I agree Trump has little credibility because he lies and says stupid stuff.  Unfortunately, I also think many who criticize Trump have little credibility because they lie and say stupid stuff. As always, the truth lies in the middle.

I've tried to resist being drawn into the political.  I will now resume trying.

I agree with you to some extent.  Some of the criticisms of Trump are really minor and not productive.  And yes the administration has done good things too.  No doubt.

The biggest problems were the delay in recognizing the problem (and while China does deserve SOME blame for that, you are warping time if you think the administration does not), and the continued mixed messaging about what needs to be done.

As I said earlier, if he would have simply said back in late March "we are shutting everything down until the end of April and I'm calling on Congress to pass a relief bill," then hounded governors who didn't comply, and stuck to his guns with the messaging, we would all be better off.  But the waffling and differing messages doesn't help.

[StillAWarrior]

I agree with you to some extent.  Some of the criticisms of Trump are really minor and not productive.  And yes the administration has done good things too.  No doubt.

The biggest problems were the delay in recognizing the problem (and while China does deserve SOME blame for that, you are warping time if you think the administration does not), and the continued mixed messaging about what needs to be done.

As I said earlier, if he would have simply said back in late March "we are shutting everything down until the end of April and I'm calling on Congress to pass a relief bill," then hounded governors who didn't comply, and stuck to his guns with the messaging, we would all be better off.  But the waffling and differing messages doesn't help.

I agree with you completely. Truly, there is nothing you said here that I disagree with.

[MU82]

American Exceptionalism is dead. We now compare ourselves to other countries when convenient, and when we don't measure up we give excuses.

Many of the same folks who want to give the current occupant of the White House a free pass despite his administration's mediocre response are the same ones who harshly criticize a basketball coach who has gone to the NCAA tourney in 3 of the last 4 years for being mediocre.

I guess mediocrity is OK only when you're the leader of the free world.

Two words: Massive Testing

Yep.

From yesterday's press briefing/campaign rally:

Vice President Mike Pence said the short-term objective is to test as many Americans as possible.

The Vice Hypocrite and his boss should have had that as a short-term, medium-term and long-term objective two months ago. More and more information has come out that they were warned repeatedly and were fully aware of the potentially devastating effect of this virus, yet they chose to downplay it, lie about it and count on a "miracle."

I think it's absolutely terrifying that people here actually believe this administration (which includes people other than Trump, btw) has completely botched the response to this global pandemic at every step of the way.  I read things here and elsewhere that are are overly critical and untrue.  That's the problem with bias in either direction.  If someone is biased and attacks and/or defends everything then credibility is lost.  I agree Trump has little credibility because he lies and says stupid stuff.  Unfortunately, I also think many who criticize Trump have little credibility because they lie and say stupid stuff. As always, the truth lies in the middle.

I appreciate the tone, SAW, and I agree with much of what you say. But this is sort of an example of false equivalence, something Trump defenders use all the time (not saying you do). You or I or some talking head on MSNBC screaming, "Trump has done nothing," is simply not the same as the president of the United States failing to be prepared, blaming everybody but himself and lying to Americans about cases going "close to zero within days." It reminds me of Trump and his sycophants claiming that counterprotesters at the Charlottesville rally were the equivalent of torch-carrying neo-Nazis screaming, "Jews will not replace us!"

[tower912]

I am a bleeding heart but I am also pragmatic.   I admire and appreciate the work done by Dewine and Hogan, for example.   They put the safety of their constituents first.   I could vote for them even though I disagree with most of their politics simply because they stepped up and led.
   Here in Michigan, I compare and contrast Snyder's response  to the Flint water crisis and Gretchen's reponse to Covid.   Which one hid, which one led?
   

[StillAWarrior]

NM -- Intended as a PM.  Sorry.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Someone said there would be lawsuits?
It's already started here locally.  Crazy stuff.

Club owners sue Lamont, Elicker over coronavirus restrictions
By Ben Lambert

https://digital.olivesoftware.com/Olive/ODN/NewHavenRegister/Default.aspx

NEW HAVEN — The owners of 50’s Lounge in Westville have sued Mayor Justin Elicker and Gov. Ned Lamont, alleging, among other claims, that restrictions implemented during the coronavirus pandemic violate their constitutional rights.

Attorney Kevin Smith of Pattis & Smith LLC, representing owners Michael Amato and Joy Monsanto, filed the suit in U.S. District Court Friday.

It raises two sets of allegations: that Elicker defamed the business by claiming it was still holding parties after it had closed, and that Elicker and Lamont violated a series of Amato’s and Monsanto’s constitutional rights by limiting the size of gatherings..............................................................................................
(Continued)

[MU82]

Testing of a new drug going on here in Charlotte:

Novant Health will be the first healthcare system in the southeastern United States to initiate Phase 2 clinical trials for patients with mild to moderate COVID-19 symptoms, according to biotechnology company CytoDyn.

The placebo-controlled trial of 75 patients at up to 10 Novant Health centers will evaluate the safety of using Leronlimab, an experimental drug also used to treat HIV, in patients with mild to moderate documented COVID-19 illness, according to CytoDyn. COVID-19 is the disease caused by the novel coronavirus.

Novant Health spokeswoman Megan Rivers said the trials will be held at Novant Health Presbyterian, Forsyth and Rowan medical centers. Novant is based in Winston-Salem and is one of the two major hospital systems in Charlotte.

[wadesworld]

I don't.  I really don't.  At all.  But I think it's absolutely terrifying that people here actually believe this administration (which includes people other than Trump, btw) has completely botched the response to this global pandemic at every step of the way.  I read things here and elsewhere that are are overly critical and untrue.  That's the problem with bias in either direction.  If someone is biased and attacks and/or defends everything then credibility is lost.  I agree Trump has little credibility because he lies and says stupid stuff.  Unfortunately, I also think many who criticize Trump have little credibility because they lie and say stupid stuff. As always, the truth lies in the middle.

I've tried to resist being drawn into the political.  I will now resume trying.

That’s why I said this administration. Because Trump shouldn’t be the person making these decisions (though that’s part of his problem, he either thinks he’s an expert on things he’s not or lets someone not qualified to be an expert take control because it’ll help him personally in some way or another), he should simply be the messenger. But ultimately he needs to be the leader of this country. And while at times during his term he’s done a good job of that, he has failed the people of the United States horribly in his biggest test in the White House.

Had the administration’s response been even competent I would’ve seriously considered giving my vote to Trump, as I don’t think Joe Biden is a great answer to lead this country either. This response Trumps (pun) everything in regards to who gets my vote. And with this response, I’m certain Joe Biden is better equipped than Trump ever has been or will be. And the same could’ve been said if it was Hillary or Bernie representing the Democratic Party. Neither of them are great options, but it couldn’t be more clear to me that Donald failed the American people.

[Lennys Tap]

I agree with you to some extent.  Some of the criticisms of Trump are really minor and not productive.  And yes the administration has done good things too.  No doubt.

The biggest problems were the delay in recognizing the problem (and while China does deserve SOME blame for that, you are warping time if you think the administration does not), and the continued mixed messaging about what needs to be done.

As I said earlier, if he would have simply said back in late March "we are shutting everything down until the end of April and I'm calling on Congress to pass a relief bill," then hounded governors who didn't comply, and stuck to his guns with the messaging, we would all be better off.  But the waffling and differing messages doesn't help.

Fluff

 I think it’s fair to say your political leanings are decidedly non Republican. But throughout this thread you’ve been pretty much right down the middle fair in your analysis. Thank you.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Fluff

 I think it’s fair to say your political leanings are decidedly non Republican. But throughout this thread you’ve been pretty much right down the middle fair in your analysis. Thank you.

Thank you Lenny. 

[WarriorDad]

"Sleepy Joe" warned about COVID-19 back in January.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/01/27/coronavirus-donald-trump-made-us-less-prepared-joe-biden-column/4581710002/

WHO and separately Dr. Fauci in January said this is not something Americans need to worry about.

[tower912]

WHO and separately Dr. Fauci in January said this is not something Americans need to worry about.

So, you are saying Sleepy Joe nailed it and should be commended, as he was ahead of Fauci and the WHO.

[WarriorDad]

We are also way way under on reporting cases and deaths. We have had terrible testing capacities.

So all nations are in a similar boat in terms of under-reporting. The bottom line, since the beginning the mortality rates from cases has been high 3-5%, it was experts down playing these numbers to 1%. The Ro from China, were higher or equal to what we are currently observing.

We are counting every COVID related death as a COVID death.  That is not how other countries are reporting.  We have taken a liberal approach.

https://theunionjournal.com/birx-says-government-is-classifying-all-deaths-of-patients-with-coronavirus-as-covid-19-deaths-regardless-of-cause/

[WarriorDad]

So, you are saying Sleepy Joe nailed it and should be commended, as he was ahead of Fauci and the WHO.

Yes, he should be commended and some of the most important medical experts were giving the wrong outlook.

[Pakuni]

Germany beginning antibody testing next week. We really need to get going with this as well.
A vaccine would be great and all, but that's a log way off. A therapeutic treatment and this kind of testing is what it's going to take to return to some semblance of normal.

https://apnews.com/9c685e0cc728698f04a31bf0caecf5ff

[WarriorDad]

German scientific study says mortality rate from COVID is .37%.  This is far lower than the modeling estimates and WHO claims of 3.5%.

Using antibodies for their research it suggests many people have the virus.

Studies like these will push leaders to open up the economies early in my opinion.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/04/08/coronavirus-latest-news-2/#link-2H64MNBNRVCWJPBJQTVLVHCZ4E

[Skatastrophy]

We are counting every COVID related death as a COVID death.  That is not how other countries are reporting.  We have taken a liberal approach.

https://theunionjournal.com/birx-says-government-is-classifying-all-deaths-of-patients-with-coronavirus-as-covid-19-deaths-regardless-of-cause/

What is up with the article you linked? Is it translated from another language? It's unreadable 

"Dr Michael Baden, a Fox News factor, stated it’s affordable to consist of the fatality of a person contaminated with the infection, that additionally had various other health and wellness concerns, in the COVID-19 body matter."

[forgetful]

We are counting every COVID related death as a COVID death.  That is not how other countries are reporting.  We have taken a liberal approach.

https://theunionjournal.com/birx-says-government-is-classifying-all-deaths-of-patients-with-coronavirus-as-covid-19-deaths-regardless-of-cause/

It requires that the dead person is actually tested for COVID. We are not doing that. There are a lot of people dying from "bilateral pneumonia" that are never being tested. Their death then is listed as due to pneumonia. There have been numerous reports from morgues, that they are undercounting.

WHO and separately Dr. Fauci in January said this is not something Americans need to worry about.

I believe I addressed this timeline for you previously in this thread. When people said something in January is important. He said it before the WHO confirmed person to person spread and when there was something like 30 reported cases in all of China. A few days later, he was the one who recommended we shut down travel with China, and it was the universal agreement of all major players at the CDC.

Trump was still golfing on March 7th and 8th as people were dying. On Feb. 25th, he said we only had 15 cases and would soon have zero. While he was golfing, the US still hadn't put in orders for ventilators and PPE.

Big difference.

Also, I apologize to many about having a politically oriented post. I've tried to avoid it, but do get suckered in sometimes when I see blatant misrepresentations of what transpired for political purposes. Particularly, in some of the attacks on people like Dr. Fauci, where things are taken out of context on when they were said.

[Jay Bee]

https://spectator.org/the-smearing-of-greg-gutfeld/

[GooooMarquette]

I agree with you to some extent.  Some of the criticisms of Trump are really minor and not productive.  And yes the administration has done good things too.  No doubt.

The biggest problems were the delay in recognizing the problem (and while China does deserve SOME blame for that, you are warping time if you think the administration does not), and the continued mixed messaging about what needs to be done.

As I said earlier, if he would have simply said back in late March "we are shutting everything down until the end of April and I'm calling on Congress to pass a relief bill," then hounded governors who didn't comply, and stuck to his guns with the messaging, we would all be better off.  But the waffling and differing messages doesn't help.

I also agree with the general sentiment. It is not totally Trump's fault, but he is certainly not blameless. Too many people live in those extremes.

Regarding the underlined...at least some in the administration (Navarro) recognized the problem fairly early. The administration's biggest mistake at that point was ignoring the warning. I also agree that the mixed messaging is a significant part of the issue.

IMHO - Trump is viewing his daily briefings as a campaigning opportunity, so he continues to talk in an overly optimistic tone so that he can say "I did everything I could to save the economy" this fall. However, the mixed messages might actually delay getting the pandemic under control, which could cost him in the end.

I also fault Trump/the administration for continuing to take the position that the development of widespread testing and contact tracing as a state responsibility, when in fact this is exactly what CDC was established to do. FWIW - the full name of CDC is "Centers for Disease Control and Prevention." I suspect he feels that having CDC taking over now would be seen as an acknowledgement that the administration/CDC messed up from the beginning, and he doesn't want his supporters to hear that.

[Coleman]

German scientific study says mortality rate from COVID is .37%.  This is far lower than the modeling estimates and WHO claims of 3.5%.

Using antibodies for their research it suggests many people have the virus.

Studies like these will push leaders to open up the economies early in my opinion.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/04/08/coronavirus-latest-news-2/#link-2H64MNBNRVCWJPBJQTVLVHCZ4E

Might be true in Germany, but the US of A has wayyyyy more fat pepole, diabetic people, and people with heart disease than Germany. No way our mortality rate is that low.

3% is certainly high (mild/asymptomatic cases being undercounted), but I'd be very, very surprised if USA's mortality rate is under 1%.

[GooooMarquette]

Germany beginning antibody testing next week. We really need to get going with this as well.
A vaccine would be great and all, but that's a log way off. A therapeutic treatment and this kind of testing is what it's going to take to return to some semblance of normal.

https://apnews.com/9c685e0cc728698f04a31bf0caecf5ff

As I posted earlier, Mayo Clinic rolled out antibody testing this past Monday. It appears my post got lost in some of the partisan bickering (not talking to you specifically - more the general tone at the time of my post). Here again is the link:

http://outbreaknewstoday.com/covid-19-antibody-test-mayo-clinic-to-release-test-monday-65897/

Mayo is also the lead site for a multi center study of convalescent plasma as a treatment. The study is currently enrolling participants.

https://www.uscovidplasma.org

[Pakuni]

German scientific study says mortality rate from COVID is .37%.  This is far lower than the modeling estimates and WHO claims of 3.5%.

Using antibodies for their research it suggests many people have the virus.

Studies like these will push leaders to open up the economies early in my opinion.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/04/08/coronavirus-latest-news-2/#link-2H64MNBNRVCWJPBJQTVLVHCZ4E

For a variety of reasons - age of those infected, more testing, better and more accessible health care, better adherence to social distancing guidelines, among others - Germany has been an anomaly when it comes to COVID-19 death rates.
It's probably not a good idea to extrapolate the results from that relatively small population around the globe (just like it would be wrong to assume every American city = NYC).

ttps://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/04/world/europe/germany-coronavirus-death-rate.html