COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")

[JWags85]

These are the real stats that are needed.

It's easy enough to say 50 twenty somethings are in the hospital. But what if 49/50 have no immune system?

Theyve never done this.  They add those details, like the old age of the majority of the Italian deaths, in the middle of articles days later.

[Coleman]

These are the real stats that are needed.

It's easy enough to say 50 twenty somethings are in the hospital. But what if 49/50 have no immune system?

Right, a 20 something stage 4 cancer patient, or HIV+ person not on treatment, isn't going to fare well.

[Jockey]

I agree gooo.  I am happy we seem to be mobilizing, but I have yet to see the coordinated response--so piecemail right now.  Step one is getting people to shut it down and we finally got the Dr's out in front to declare the crisis (fauci).  So much more to go.  Get rules out of the way, re-purpose our infrastructure (factories, hotels, military), etc.

Many of us are. Hopefully, most of us are. But there are still many actively fighting against protective measures. In Kansas yesterday, the legislature took away many of the governor's powers to act against the virus after she closed schools for the rest of the semester.

They even specifically included language that guns cannot be confiscated. Methinks their priorities might be a bit off kilter.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/kansas/articles/2020-03-18/gop-right-pushes-back-on-kansas-governor-for-closing-schools

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Many of us are. Hopefully, most of us are. But there are still many actively fighting against protective measures. In Kansas yesterday, the legislature took away many of the governor's powers to act against the virus after she closed schools for the rest of the semester.

They even specifically included language that guns cannot be confiscated. Methinks their priorities might be a bit off kilter.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/kansas/articles/2020-03-18/gop-right-pushes-back-on-kansas-governor-for-closing-schools

As a conservative, Kansas makes me cringe. A lot.

[shoothoops]

https://twitter.com/wpjenna/status/1240654583766175744

[mu03eng]

Just curious. Why do you support companies using taxpayer-funded bailouts to engage in share repurchases?

The whole problem is that provision bans it forever. Stock repurchase is a health practice in normal times. If the provision was sunset on some recovery metric or a timeline(5 years after accepting bailout) I'm 100% on board. Otherwise it just feels like a Don Quixote position to take

[Coleman]

The whole problem is that provision bans it forever. Stock repurchase is a health practice in normal times. If the provision was sunset on some recovery metric or a timeline(5 years after accepting bailout) I'm 100% on board. Otherwise it just feels like a Don Quixote position to take

Debatable. It was illegal until the 1980s.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Just curious. Why do you support companies using taxpayer-funded bailouts to engage in share repurchases?

I don't like the absolute "never" language.  Share repurchases can be useful.  I would prefer a time limit of say 20 years or so.

[Jockey]

I don't like the absolute "never" language.  Share repurchases can be useful.  I would prefer a time limit of say 20 years or so.

I don't think they'd be using bailout money in 20 years.

[mu03eng]

Debatable. It was illegal until the 1980s.

So was alcohol for a time

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I don't think they'd be using bailout money in 20 years.

Right.  That's my point.  As I recall, the Warren language says "can never repurchase shares." 

[MU82]

Let the airlines burn or limit their scummyness

I like the spirit of this. Unfortunately, we need healthy airlines to function as a society. The cost to let them all die and then start up new ones would be beyond exorbitant.

But I agree with others that there should be significant strings attached. It's our turn, as taxpayers and consumers, to nickel and dime them!

[Jockey]

Right.  That's my point.  As I recall, the Warren language says "can never repurchase shares."

You are right. I saw the 3 years stipulation on executive bonuses and combined the two points.

I have issues with a couple of Warren's points, but we cannot allow this bailout to line the pockets of executives and shareholders. The "point" of a bailout is to get companies through THIS crisis.

[Coleman]

I like the spirit of this. Unfortunately, we need healthy airlines to function as a society. The cost to let them all die and then start up new ones would be beyond exorbitant.

But I agree with others that there should be significant strings attached. It's our turn, as taxpayers and consumers, to nickel and dime them!

What if we just had a national flag carrier like most other countries have had (British Airways, Air Canada, Air France, etc.)? Like an Amtrak of the skies. I'm thinking this would be a merger of United-Delta-American, possibly Alaska too.

You could still have luxury or discount carriers (a la Virgin Atlantic or Porter Airlines, I'm guessing Southwest would be the main one there) if there was a market for it.

[Hards Alumni]

I don't like the absolute "never" language.  Share repurchases can be useful.  I would prefer a time limit of say 20 years or so.

Or require them to prove that it is prudent to buy back.  Show cause, if you will.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

I don't like the absolute "never" language.  Share repurchases can be useful.  I would prefer a time limit of say 20 years or so.

If I were writing the plan, I would say that companies are allowed to repurchase any new shares issued after a certain date (let's say time of bail-out).  That way they can manage the capital structure/dilution that occurs due to compensation, etc.  Beyond that government approval or certain capitalization levels need to be reached (i.e. achieve AA bond rating and A1/P1 CP rating).

[Sir Lawrence]

Here's advice that I hadn't seen before this morning, and I'm wondering if anyone else has information about it:

•   When driving, keep windows slightly open to provide air flow.

It's origin is an email blast from the State of Michigan DNR, letting people know that park trails, etc. are open.  Then it lists the usual measures, including the one I hadn't heard of.  I presumed most vehicles have adequate fresh air flow already, even with the windows sealed. 

[Hards Alumni]

Here's advice that I hadn't seen before this morning, and I'm wondering if anyone else has information about it:

•   When driving, keep windows slightly open to provide air flow.

It's origin is an email blast from the State of Michigan DNR, letting people know that park trails, etc. are open.  Then it lists the usual measures, including the one I hadn't heard of.  I presumed most vehicles have adequate fresh air flow already, even with the windows sealed.

They do, but I did hear an expert from the Mayo Clinic yesterday on NPR answer a question about quarantining family members, and one of the precautions was to place them in a room and have the windows open.  It was the first I'd heard of this, which I thought was weird since today is the first day of Spring, and its pretty chilly outside.  Does anyone else have a guidance that suggests this?  I'm curious about the reasoning.   My uneducated guess is that "fresh air" is probably good for the sole reason of drying out or blowing out any water droplets which carry virus loads, thereby reducing viability.

[Hards Alumni]

Italy reports 5,322 new cases of coronavirus and 427 new deaths, raising total to 41,035 cases and 3,405 dead. Death toll in Italy now surpasses that of China.

Dark days.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

You are right. I saw the 3 years stipulation on executive bonuses and combined the two points.

I have issues with a couple of Warren's points, but we cannot allow this bailout to line the pockets of executives and shareholders. The "point" of a bailout is to get companies through THIS crisis.

That's why the cash should go right to the people and have it means tested.

[GooooMarquette]

They do, but I did hear an expert from the Mayo Clinic yesterday on NPR answer a question about quarantining family members, and one of the precautions was to place them in a room and have the windows open.  It was the first I'd heard of this, which I thought was weird since today is the first day of Spring, and its pretty chilly outside.  Does anyone else have a guidance that suggests this?  I'm curious about the reasoning.   My uneducated guess is that "fresh air" is probably good for the sole reason of drying out or blowing out any water droplets which carry virus loads, thereby reducing viability.

I don’t have any specific info about the rationale, but the advice is consistent with CDC guidance, which mentions open windows as a good practice in many situations:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/downloads/workplace-school-and-home-guidance.pdf

[Jockey]

That's why the cash should go right to the people and have it means tested.

Limited bailouts may be necessary, but I generally agree with your point.

[MU82]

Amazing article in the NYT. (They have lifted their paywall for most of their coronavirus stuff.)

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/19/us/politics/trump-coronavirus-outbreak.html?fbclid=IwAR3R9APG4C5hw9HIMEMR0Rk3ptSFrmAPUBYcAMSVnRZRzmLMcxNa1Vqlxt0

WASHINGTON — The outbreak of the respiratory virus began in China and was quickly spread around the world by air travelers, who ran high fevers. In the United States, it was first detected in Chicago, and 47 days later, the World Health Organization declared a pandemic. By then it was too late: 110 million Americans were expected to become ill, leading to 7.7 million hospitalized and 586,000 dead.

That scenario, code-named “Crimson Contagion,” was simulated by the Trump administration’s Department of Health and Human Services in a series of exercises that ran from last January to August.

The simulation’s sobering results — contained in a draft report dated October 2019 that has not previously been reported — drove home just how underfunded, underprepared and uncoordinated the federal government would be for a life-or-death battle with a virus for which no treatment existed.

The draft report, marked “not to be disclosed,” laid out in stark detail repeated cases of “confusion” in the exercise. Federal agencies jockeyed over who was in charge. State officials and hospitals struggled to figure out what kind of equipment was stockpiled or available. Cities and states went their own ways on school closings.

Many of the potentially deadly consequences of a failure to address the shortcomings are now playing out in all-too-real fashion across the country. And it was hardly the first warning for the nation’s leaders.

[forgetful]

Amazing article in the NYT. (They have lifted their paywall for most of their coronavirus stuff.)

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/19/us/politics/trump-coronavirus-outbreak.html?fbclid=IwAR3R9APG4C5hw9HIMEMR0Rk3ptSFrmAPUBYcAMSVnRZRzmLMcxNa1Vqlxt0

WASHINGTON — The outbreak of the respiratory virus began in China and was quickly spread around the world by air travelers, who ran high fevers. In the United States, it was first detected in Chicago, and 47 days later, the World Health Organization declared a pandemic. By then it was too late: 110 million Americans were expected to become ill, leading to 7.7 million hospitalized and 586,000 dead.

That scenario, code-named “Crimson Contagion,” was simulated by the Trump administration’s Department of Health and Human Services in a series of exercises that ran from last January to August.

The simulation’s sobering results — contained in a draft report dated October 2019 that has not previously been reported — drove home just how underfunded, underprepared and uncoordinated the federal government would be for a life-or-death battle with a virus for which no treatment existed.

The draft report, marked “not to be disclosed,” laid out in stark detail repeated cases of “confusion” in the exercise. Federal agencies jockeyed over who was in charge. State officials and hospitals struggled to figure out what kind of equipment was stockpiled or available. Cities and states went their own ways on school closings.

Many of the potentially deadly consequences of a failure to address the shortcomings are now playing out in all-too-real fashion across the country. And it was hardly the first warning for the nation’s leaders.

Well that's quite a bombshell if true. And the numbers are crazy close to some of the predictions for COVID-19

[shoothoops]

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-appointees-trained-pandemic-response-in-2016-2020-3

Trump transition team not interested in pandemic training, 2017.