Buzz Attacks

[MUBB7703]

Read a little bit of the string about the Buzz/Strong article and the continued criticism.  I think most of the criticism of the Buzz hire is premature until we see how he coaches.  To date everyone seems to like the recruiting activity.  Even if it turns out Buzz's inexperience prevents him from obtaining the success we and I am sure he would like, how would that be any different than when Rick Majerus got the job and did not experience the success he would have liked?  Years later, I am sure a lot of people may have preferred Rick sticking around until he obtained the experience to start consistently winning.  Its time to put this topic to bed and lets concentrate on watching what happens next year.

[ATWizJr]

IF it only it were that easy! 

I agree, but there are posters who just cannot resist any opportunity to comment negatively. 

If he proves to be a bad choice I will be the first to criticize.  But, until he actually has a chance to show what he can do, what's the point of all this negativity?

[Daniel]

Amen.  Let's get behind Buzz and give him every chance to do well. 

[only a warrior]

Please don't bring Rick Majerus and his MU debacle into this.  3 very painful years to be at school and have to endure that.  I hope Buzz has a better go at it than Fat Rick - he should given how full the cupboard is for next year at least.

[detroitwarrior]

Agreed, enough of the Buzz attacks,Crean attacks and comparisons until Buzz has at least coached a season or two irrespective of what one thinks of the process of his hiring and his ability to coach. He has hired a decent staff , kept Erik Williams on board for 09,landed a potential great recruit in Maymon for 09 and appears to be working other 3 and 4 star recruits hard with his staff.....As Michael Irvin once said " Give him his due'

[Sir Lawrence]

I must be reading another version of this message board, since I don't recall seeing many, if any, "Buzz Attacks" today.  Lots of comments about Strong's influence on MU BB, but who is attacking Buzz?

[ChicosBailBonds]

I must be reading another version of this message board, since I don't recall seeing many, if any, "Buzz Attacks" today.  Lots of comments about Strong's influence on MU BB, but who is attacking Buzz?

I was going to say the same thing....I've seen one poster attack Buzz the last three days.  Maybe I'm missing it or maybe there is too much sensitivity and things that some people feel are attacks others don't.  I honestly haven't seen the attacks people are talking about today outside of one poster.   

[detroitwarrior]

Speaking only for myself and as a newbie, there have not been many today, I agree. My response to the thread meant to reference the Buzz and Crean attacks etc of the past several weeks.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I'm sure some will construe this as negative.  I'm just providing a link to what some of the UNO fans think about the Buzz article. 

http://www.neworleans.com/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid=498&func=view&id=2285&catid=28

Hopefully their loss is our gain.  Hopefully they are wrong about their feelings.

[RawdogDX]

Buzz has very limited experience as a head coach.  Less then what you'd normally see hired to coach a major program.

News flash.  HE KNOWS THAT. 

Buzz must have some level of confidence and belief in his own abilities or he wouldn't have been able to convince the administration and Strong that he can handle this job.

If you consider people pointing out OBVIOUS dearths in his resume attacks then you should at least have enough faith in him that someone 'attacking' him on this messsage board won't cause him to launch into a tailspin of despair from which he becomes unable to coach.

Either he's going to win games and most people will stop, or he won't and 'attacks' will increase. (as they should)

Being able to handle critics and pressure is part of the reason that schools generally hire people with more robust resumes.  If you don't like it then post some youtube vid of yourself crying and yelling "Leave buzz alone." 

[Pakuni]

I'm sure some will construe this as negative.  I'm just providing a link to what some of the UNO fans think about the Buzz article. 

http://www.neworleans.com/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid=498&func=view&id=2285&catid=28

Hopefully their loss is our gain.  Hopefully they are wrong about their feelings.

The last two months around here have pretty well established that the best place to get fair, objective and accurate information about a college basketball coach is from a group of fans that feel jilted.

[ATWizJr]

Pakluni +1

Raw Dog - why not leave him alone until he does something worth criticizing other than saying "yes" to MU?

[RawdogDX]

 
Did i say something inflamitory?  The worst attack i see against buzz is: he doen'st have much experience.

And you people get all sensitve like someone just slapped your sister.

I feel like this site has been an 85% love fest for buzz (who I really like).

If people aren't allowed to say "he doesn't have much experience" until he does somehtign wrong then shouldn't all the buzz is so honest, loyal, gratefull and blah blah wait until he wins a game?

How does that not go both ways.

BUt that gets away from the point that everyone on this site loves buzz, with what 2 exceptions?  Why are you people so sensitve on behalf of a coach who doesn't read this page.  I mean really who are these haters who are attacking this guy?  I'm so confused?

[MUBB7703]

If you look at my original post, I was refering to the Buzz/Strong string, which is now 3-4 pages long.  Early on in the string, someone suggested that the University was orchestrating the recent series of JS articles and media coverage because of a negative backlash involving the process of hiring Buzz and that if he does not win early, the whole situation will blow up.  My point was, lets give the guy a chance and see what happens.

[RawdogDX]

If you look at my original post, I was refering to the Buzz/Strong string, which is now 3-4 pages long.  Early on in the string, someone suggested that the University was orchestrating the recent series of JS articles and media coverage because of a negative backlash involving the process of hiring Buzz and that if he does not win early, the whole situation will blow up.  My point was, lets give the guy a chance and see what happens.

So saying that MU uses public relations experts to counter negative national press (which there is some) is an attack on buzz?
Or is saying that if buzz loses early the negative press, over the hire, will become louder an attack?

'Give this guy a chance'  that is like the offseason version or 'lets take it one game at a time.'   Completely meaningless, people will talk about all things mu bball here, the wide range of disagreement, conspiracy theorists, negative nillies and well informed posters is what makes it fun.

[nola03]

'Give this guy a chance'  that is like the offseason version or 'lets take it one game at a time.'   Completely meaningless, people will talk about all things mu bball here, the wide range of disagreement, conspiracy theorists, negative nillies and well informed posters is what makes it fun.

lol.

Hey man, give Buzz a chance dude. (He says through a puff of smoke).

 

[Murffieus]

I'm hoping for the best, but expecting the worst. TC had 9 years HC experience and he finsihed only 5th or 6th this past season in the BE. I think we'll be alright on offense this coming year (hard to screw that up)----my worry is defense. Buzz's UNO team didn't perform well defensively giving up 76 ppg.

On the comparison to Rick-----one thing they have in common is that both are gym rats.

[madtownwarrior]

Murf - give it up already.    Buzz had players from a previous coach, playing in crap facilities and you use that experience to gauge how good his defense was.   

Also, you say it took Crean 9 years to finish 5th or 6th - maybe that was Crean's limitations and not the learning curve for Buzz .  You for one criticized Crean's offense against the zone or the limited use of the wide-post.   Maybe Buzz comes in with a better basketball knowledge than Crean.


With fans like you, we really don't need Louisville or Badgers fans to hate the program..

[ChicosBailBonds]

I'm hoping for the best, but expecting the worst. TC had 9 years HC experience and he finsihed only 5th or 6th this past season in the BE. I think we'll be alright on offense this coming year (hard to screw that up)----my worry is defense. Buzz's UNO team didn't perform well defensively giving up 76 ppg.

On the comparison to Rick-----one thing they have in common is that both are gym rats.

I'd love to see where Bo would have finished in the Big East this past year considering he lost at home to Marquette.  Considering IU lost to UCONN at home (when IU was still playing well).  Considering the Big East head to head wins over the Big Ten, etc.  Finishing 5th or 6th in the Big East is not like finishing 5th or 6th in the Big Ten. 

[RawdogDX]

madtow

Murf - give it up already.    Buzz had players from a previous coach, playing in crap facilities and you use that experience to gauge how good his defense was.  

Also, you say it took Crean 9 years to finish 5th or 6th - maybe that was Crean's limitations and not the learning curve for Buzz .  You for one criticized Crean's offense against the zone or the limited use of the wide-post.   Maybe Buzz comes in with a better basketball knowledge than Crean.


With fans like you, we really don't need Louisville or Badgers fans to hate the program..

what a gross over reaction.  Why is it anyone who is worried or has any concerns about an unproven comodity is getting slammed?   Completely out of line.

[Murffieus]

Madtown-------at UNO Buzz had a guy who the last time i looked is slated to go in the 2nd round of the NBA draft---------also had a guy who was the #5 trey shooter in the country plus two other very good players-----UNO was picked to win his Sun Belt division by some of the preseason mags----he finished 4th.

Conditions weren't ideal, but the last i checked the rim hangs from the same height, the ball is the same size, and the court is the same size no matter where one practices or plays. Can't use poor conditions as an excuse-----could influence recruiting going forward------but shouldn't have any effect on players already there. Was Buzz's job to sell the fact that there were no problems just opportunities!

As I say, i'm hoping for the best!

[Murffieus]

Chico----UW got better after December----whereas we didn't seem to improve. The experts and RPI thought UW was a top 10 team!

[ATWizJr]

Dog- asking that Buzz be given a chance before being criticized is meaningless?  Then, then by your reasoning,  criticizing Buzz before giving him a chance is um....meaningful?

And, whether it is true or not, stating that MU needs to use it's PR experts to qualm the negative commentary is negative commentary.

How about accenting the positive and at least waiting for something bad to happen before going negative?  Or, is it that you just can't wait?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Chico----UW got better after December----whereas we didn't seem to improve. The experts and RPI thought UW was a top 10 team!

Of course UW got better after December....that's when they started playing in the Big Ten.  MU started playing in the tough Big East after December.

It's not an issue of a calendar, it's an issue of who you play.

[RawdogDX]

Dog- asking that Buzz be given a chance before being criticized is meaningless?  Then, then by your reasoning,  criticizing Buzz before giving him a chance is um....meaningful?

   The problem with everything you are saying is that NOTHING on this board is meaningful.  Nothing we say, think, or argue about matters.  And so if someone wants to express their meaningless concerns and worries about anything they can do so, being concerned about something doesn't = an attack and isn't even negative.  If I say "I'm worried that TM's post up game isn't going to improve" is that an attack?  How does concern or worry equate to an attack?

And, whether it is true or not, stating that MU needs to use it's PR experts to qualm the negative commentary is negative commentary.

you are reading way too much into this, there was one person who thinks that mu controls the media who i retorted in the other thread. 

And what's your point?  You want to end negativity?  Perhaps we can find you a sesame street board.

How about accenting the positive and at least waiting for something bad to happen before going negative?  Or, is it that you just can't wait?

wtf?  Please find one "BUZZ ATTACK!" post I've written?   Did you read the title of the thread?  it is 'Buzz Attacks' not 'optimism about buzz should not in any way be tempered by his lack of experience'.

I, as I've repeatedly said, have high hopes for buzz that doesn't mean his lack of experience doesn't cause me to experience a shred or worry.  That makes me negative? 
According to posters like you saying: "Buzz seems like a charismatic guy and, although I'm confident about his recruiting ability, because of his lack of HC experience, I'm holding back my optimism until he shows me some x's and o's."  is negative.  I don't see it that way, but is that an attack?  Does that make me a hater?

But i digress.  My point is that said 'Attacks' (for the most part) don't exist, and that they are just in the minds of hyper sensitive people.
I don't think i ever said 'negativity' doesn't exist but I do feel that many people here think that concern, worries or even tempered optimism = negativity or attacking.
Those people seem extremly reactionary and annoying and cause people to defend their positions which create most of 'attack' posts you may be able to dig up.

[ATWizJr]

Dog - the problem with your example is, you've at least seen some of TM's post up game and therefore have a basis to form an opinion. 

Buzz is in the early stages of executing his coaching duties, so, why not wait to air negativity until there is some actual basis for criticism like, poor recruiting or coaching results?

In other words, why not be optimistic until there is reason not to be?

[wildbill sb]

Folks,

It ain't rocket surgery, for Pete's sake, it's basketball.  Buzz has hired all the coaching "surgeons" he needs.  In my view, college basketball can be summed up in one word:  RECRUITING. If that's the case,  it looks like Buzz is doing a pretty darn good job so far.

wildbill sb

p.s.  "Renewable energy IS homeland security"

[RawdogDX]

Dog - the problem with your example is, you've at least seen some of TM's post up game and therefore have a basis to form an opinion. 

Buzz is in the early stages of executing his coaching duties, so, why not wait to air negativity until there is some actual basis for criticism like, poor recruiting or coaching results?

In other words, why not be optimistic until there is reason not to be?

I am being optimistic.  THis thread was about 'attacks'.  Conversation is over.

[ATWizJr]

cloture?  taking your opinion and going home? you're right, meaningless.

[RawdogDX]

oh yeah, i write all of this:
-----------------------------------------
wtf?  Please find one "BUZZ ATTACK!" post I've written?   Did you read the title of the thread?  it is 'Buzz Attacks' not 'optimism about buzz should not in any way be tempered by his lack of experience'.

I, as I've repeatedly said, have high hopes for buzz that doesn't mean his lack of experience doesn't cause me to experience a shred or worry.  That makes me negative? 
According to posters like you saying: "Buzz seems like a charismatic guy and, although I'm confident about his recruiting ability, because of his lack of HC experience, I'm holding back my optimism until he shows me some x's and o's."  is negative.  I don't see it that way, but is that an attack?  Does that make me a hater?

But i digress.  My point is that said 'Attacks' (for the most part) don't exist, and that they are just in the minds of hyper sensitive people.
I don't think i ever said 'negativity' doesn't exist but I do feel that many people here think that concern, worries or even tempered optimism = negativity or attacking.
Those people seem extremly reactionary and annoying and cause people to defend their positions which create most of 'attack' posts you may be able to dig up.
---------------------------
yo udon't respond to anyof it and i'm supposed to keep defending myself for 'beign negative'.  Find one negative post.  You can't can you clown shoes?  It should be easy there is search functionality built into this site. 

[jon bon]

Did I mistakenly type in AstheWorldTurns.com instead of MUscoop.com this morning? 

[ATWizJr]

What I object to is taking gratuitous potshots at the program. 

Ex. the bit about using the pr experts is dogspeak for, "I think MU has made a bad choice but I can't prove it yet , so  rather than wait to see how it plays out I'll just say that the hire is so bad that MU has to use pr experts to defend itself."  I'd call that negative and a fantasy.

And it is also unnecessary to resort to ad hominem attacks and name calling.  But that's your call.  No style points.

Seems to me I remember you being upset when someone made fun of your handle a while ago.  So, before you call people "clown shoes" or suggest that they find the sesame street board,  think twice and practice what you preach.

As to the"meaningless" comment I am simply quoting you when you said, "nothing on this board is meaningful".  Therefore, everything on this board is meaningless.

[RawdogDX]

You are really, really frustrating me here.  My point is that people who say "I like buzz and think he's going to be a great recruiter although his short resume does concern me a little."  Aren't attacking him.
Can you agree on that much?  All I've been saying this entire time is that people are bing hypersensitive when they get defensive about statements as benign as the above paragraph.

If you remember one post from a year ago one would think that you would remember that I'm one of the most positive fans here who constantly defends MU.  Just recently i was defending their schedule do you want to berate me for other people being negative about that?

Why do you keep bringing up some person who is crazy and said that the BoD freaked out about the 'D' the hire received on rivals.com and thus bought off a journal reporter? 
That wasn't me, and it isn't an attack on buzz.  (BTW you seem to like to act as if there has been no negative press, I don't care about it because i realize that the guy working for si.com just has his resume to go off of and doesn't know him thus is less informed than strong was)
And I don't care if they think the world works that way and post it here.  Go start a thread that says "People who think mu controls the media and use that control to react to negative press in order to manipulate the population should be quite." 

I apologize for calling you clown shoes, you are clearly penny loafers.  But i think sesame street board was completely called for.  If the comments of 'negative' people weren't on this board it would be boring and people wouldn't come.  That is what all you sensitive people don't seem to realize.

I apologize for calling sensitive people sensitive.

[rocky_warrior]

Did I mistakenly type in AstheWorldTurns.com instead of MUscoop.com this morning? 

I think the only thing this thread is missing now, is this:

<a href="http://www.instantrimshot.com/rimshot.swf" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.instantrimshot.com/rimshot.swf</a>

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

Rawdogdx,

Don't even waste your time. He's not looking for an apology, he's looking for you to continually grovel because he feels empowered by defending whatever action MU takes and attempting to make you look like the bad guy, like many of the kool-aid drinkers on this message board (and in the fan base).

[jon bon]

Kool aid drinkers? 

I just don't think many MU fans are stupid enough to downgrade our current coach until a little proof is out there.   Recruits do actually read stuff on the internet. 

[nola03]

Kool aid drinkers? 

I just don't think many MU fans are stupid enough to downgrade our current coach until a little proof is out there.   Recruits do actually read stuff on the internet. 

What would Buzz be downgraded from? People are just voicing their concern.

A little proof is out there. He was a pretty good recruiter at Texas A&M and a not so good head coach at New Orleans.

Yes, recruits do read this kind of stuff. Then again, Maymon still decided on MU so it can't be as impacting as some think it is.

[jon bon]

What did you expect Buzz to do with a 10-19 team?

[ATWizJr]

so, in summary, of my position anyway, let's lay off until we see what the guy can do.  as for kool aid drinking, I don't think so.

[Pakuni]

What would Buzz be downgraded from? People are just voicing their concern.

A little proof is out there. He was a pretty good recruiter at Texas A&M and a not so good head coach at New Orleans.

In 2006-07, New Orleans improved its win total by four games over 2005-06 - including five more wins against D-I opponents and three more wins in conference while playing a tougher non-conference schedule than the previous year - while playing under pretty awful circumstances.

That's a "not so good" coaching job?
Wow, you're a tough grader.

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

lol ... "jon bon" is gone? what?

I'm guessing either 1) someone outed him as PRN or 2) he said something stupid and was banned.

[ChicosBailBonds]

In 2006-07, New Orleans improved its win total by four games over 2005-06 - including five more wins against D-I opponents and three more wins in conference while playing a tougher non-conference schedule than the previous year - while playing under pretty awful circumstances.

Well, a few missing pieces....the overall schedule strength during Buzz's one year was 203 vs a 150 the year prior.  So Buzz did play an overall easier schedule.  Plus, overall in 2006 New Orleans played 27 games against DI teams while in 2007 with Buzz they played 30 games against DI.

Having cleared that up, he certainly had to deal with some very difficult circumstances...though the actual hurricane hit the year prior (August 2005) to Buzz when that coach had to deal with even more difficult circumstances...but both had tough things to deal with.


I'm sure some will constitute this as an attack, but I'm simply filling in some missing pieces that's all.

[Murffieus]

What did you expect Buzz to do with a 10-19 team?

Buzz had the best player in the conference plus the #5 trey shooter in the country----plus two other very good players in addition to a 6' 10" guy (don't know much about him". UNO pas picked to win his division by some of the preseason mags.

UNOs offense under buzz wasn't bad at 73 ppg but their defense was atrocious at 76 ppg.

Looks to me like Buzz has a learning curve to overcome!

[muwarrior87]

lol ... "jon bon" is gone? what?

I'm guessing either 1) someone outed him as PRN or 2) he said something stupid and was banned.

i'd guess the latter based on the superbar topic that got deleted by the mods.

[Henry Sugar]

Given the team's Offensive and Defensive Efficiencies (104.3 Off ; 114.9 Def), the team should have finished with a record of 7.4 - 22.6.

Considering the team actually had a record of 13-17 against D1, that represents a decent coaching job.

[Murffieus]

Given the team's Offensive and Defensive Efficiencies (104.3 Off ; 114.9 Def), the team should have finished with a record of 7.4 - 22.6.

Considering the team actually had a record of 13-17 against D1, that represents a decent coaching job.

I look at that a little differently------- offensive efficiency rating was very good (a #56) rating-----however defense rating was # 333, which is absolutely horrible. Furthermore UNO in 2006-07 went only 3 - 13 against top 200 RPI teams.

[nola03]

In 2006-07, New Orleans improved its win total by four games over 2005-06 - including five more wins against D-I opponents and three more wins in conference while playing a tougher non-conference schedule than the previous year - while playing under pretty awful circumstances.

That's a "not so good" coaching job?
Wow, you're a tough grader.

Not really a tough grader at all.

Didn't write it was terrible. Didn't write it was awful. Didn't write it was underwhelming.

Wrote that it was not so good. 14-17, to me, is not so good. That's my standard of opinion. I can replace that phrase with "decent". Does that make it better?

For perspective, if Marquette finishes 22-11 this season and 7th in the Big East I will also write that Buzz' coaching was not so good. It isn't just numbers.

[Blackhat]

jon bon told me to notify the board he was not banned.   He thought Muscoop gave love a bad name and decided this wasn't for him and headed back to Jersey.  FYI

[rocky_warrior]

He thought Muscoop gave love a bad name

That's odd, some people just runaway, never say goodbye, and then don't come back.  How could he fall in and out of love with MUScoop so quickly?  Seems like there must have been some bad medicine.

Oh well, I guess the site will just keep livin' on a prayer.

[MUBB7703]

I have read a lot of these comments about Buzz's record at NO that suggest the results were not all that good as evidence that Buzz dis not all that good as a game coach.  I have no idea what type of talent that Buzz had on that team, so I think it is hard to evaluate him without knowing the level of talent he inherited.  I looked at Crean's first two seasons at MU and he only went 15-14 each season.  It takes at least three years for a coach to rebuild a faltering program. 

Now the situation Buzz takes over at MU this year is completely different than Crean's situation when he took over and probably Buzz's when he took over NO.  Buzz has an experienced, talented team this year.  While I expect it may lose a few games early as the team learns the systems Buzz will employ, I would think by the end of the year, the team should be playing well.  Much like Crean would have been evaluated this year, Buzz will be evaluated on how this team does in the tournament. 

[🏀]

That's odd, some people just runaway, never say goodbye, and then don't come back.  How could he fall in and out of love with MUScoop so quickly?  Seems like there must have been some bad medicine.

Oh well, I guess the site will just keep livin' on a prayer.

He's wanted. Dead or alive.

[bilsu]

Buzz vs. Bennett. What I would like so point out is the difference between the two. It is obvious Buzz is a self made man who worked very hard to get were he is at. Bennett got were he is at by the hard work of his father. Does that mean anything, probably not. But I like the idea of a coach that did everything possible to get were he is at. I believe he will continue to work to be the best possible coach.
I like Buzz's work ethic.

[Murffieus]

Work ethic is fine, but need a BB IQ as well-----I haven't seen anything yet that shows
me that he has that. Maybe he's laying in the weeds !

[ATWizJr]

why would he need a barbeque IQ?

[muwarrior87]

why would he need a barbeque IQ?

well i'd hope he has one anyway. he IS from Texas. 

[The Lens]

Buzz vs. Bennett. What I would like so point out is the difference between the two. It is obvious Buzz is a self made man who worked very hard to get were he is at. Bennett got were he is at by the hard work of his father. Does that mean anything, probably not. But I like the idea of a coach that did everything possible to get were he is at. I believe he will continue to work to be the best possible coach.
I like Buzz's work ethic.

Making it to, and PLAYING in the NBA probably didn't hurt Tony's cause.

[MUBB7703]

Murf:

How can you question Buzz's basketball IQ when we have not seen him coach a game.  Many people are trying to draw conclusion about Buzz's ability as a result of the coaching job he did UNO.  The situation there was so out of the ordinary, I do not think it is fair to draw such conclusions.  Let's judge his basketball IQ after he has coached at least a season and maybe two.

[nola03]

The situation there was so out of the ordinary, I do not think it is fair to draw such conclusions.  Let's judge his basketball IQ after he has coached at least a season and maybe two.

As to your first point, granting that UNO was in a precarious position as a whole (though Pasterneck seemed to do alright this past season....) once the ball is tipped that shouldn't have an overriding effect. People seem to give Buzz a pass on the coaching ability presented in his 14-17 record strictly due to an "extraordinary" situation. I find it strange to totally dismiss it.

As to your second point, he gets only this season for a lot of people before the good will wears down. He may never again have the combination of talent and experience at this level as he will have next season. A donkey could win 25 games with James, McNeal, and Matthews back for a 4th season and Buzz should do no less.

[Pakuni]

As to your first point, granting that UNO was in a precarious position as a whole (though Pasterneck seemed to do alright this past season....) once the ball is tipped that shouldn't have an overriding effect. People seem to give Buzz a pass on the coaching ability presented in his 14-17 record strictly due to an "extraordinary" situation. I find it strange to totally dismiss it.

Pasternack did alright thanks to the 317th ranked non-conference schedule in the country compared to the 96th under Buzz. Fact is, New Orleans had a worse conference record in 2007-08 under Pasternack than they did in 2006-07 under Buzz.
That was accomplished with four of the previous season's five top scorers returning, including the soon-to-be-named Sun Belt player of the year. And, of course, circumstances were a tad bit better around UNO last year.

I don't think anyone is giving Buzz a pass. Rather, I think some of us are making the case that he actually did a pretty good coaching job his one year in New Orleans.
Toss out the hurricane and consider:

- five more Division I wins than the previous season
- three more conference wins than the previous season and the season before that
- UNO's best conference showing since 2004 (and better than last year)
- had lost team's second-leading scorer from previous season and top two rebounders from previous season

So, throw out the hurricane and just consider the fact the team won 61 percent more games against D-I competition from the previous season and even improved on the 2004-05 (pre-Katrina) record.
Call me crazy, but I don't think that's evidence of a "not so good" coaching performance.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Coach Crean hadn't won a game before he came to MU.

Buzz has won 14.

 

I'm cautiously optimistic about Buzz.

When given a chance, great leaders can rise to an occasion and surprise you.

Or, if they are not ready for the position, they can flame out.

I'll take a wait and see approach.

[Henry Sugar]

Coach Crean hadn't won a game before he came to MU.

Buzz has won 14.

Just because I'm still pissed that neither coach was contacted by Marquette.

Brownell

• Has won 127 games
• Coach of the Year two times
• Three regular season Conference championships
• Three Conference Tournament championships
• Made the NCAA Tournament three times
• And he's the winningest coach under 40

Lowery

• Has won 96 games
• Coach of the Year once
• Two Regular season Conference championships
• One Conference Tournament championship
• Three NCAA Tournament wins, including a Sweet Sixteen

But by all means, let's talk ourselves into what a magnificent job it was by Buzz to win 14 games at New Orleans.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Just because I'm still pissed that neither coach was contacted by Marquette.

Brownell

• Has won 127 games
• Coach of the Year two times
• Three regular season Conference championships
• Three Conference Tournament championships
• Made the NCAA Tournament three times
• And he's the winningest coach under 40

Lowery

• Has won 96 games
• Coach of the Year once
• Two Regular season Conference championships
• One Conference Tournament championship
• Three NCAA Tournament wins, including a Sweet Sixteen

But by all means, let's talk ourselves into what a magnificent job it was by Buzz to win 14 games at New Orleans.

Touche!

Like I said, I'm cautiously optimistic.

I don't think picking or being a head coach is an exact science.

I'm not exactly sure why Buzz was picked... but I'm hopeful he turns out to be more like the new Raynor Library rather than Lalumiere Language Hall.

[Pakuni]

Lowery

• Has won 96 games
• Coach of the Year once
• Two Regular season Conference championships
• One Conference Tournament championship
• Three NCAA Tournament wins, including a Sweet Sixteen

But by all means, let's talk ourselves into what a magnificent job it was by Buzz to win 14 games at New Orleans.

I like Lowery. Really, I do.

But does anyone really believe the situation Buzz walked into at UNO is remotely comparable to what Lowery was left for him by Weber and Painter?

Heck, maybe MU should have hired this guy:

- 90 wins in three seasons
- Two Final Fours in three years
- One National Coach of the Year Award

Any guesses?
Bill Guthridge.

[MUBB7703]

Nola, while I agree that Buzz will have to win and win big next year, I disagree that anyone could win 25 because the 3 Amigos are returning.  I think the lack of Ous's presence on defense will have a bigger impact than people think.  Right now the team does not have anyone with sufficient height and experience to play the 7 footers in the Big East.  We also are still going to struggle with 3 pt. shooting, since Lazar is going to be relied upon for more rebounding.  This will prevent us from being able to spread the floor to take more advantage of the 3 Amigos slashing to the basket.

Now about the continued comments that there were more qualified candidates for the job then Buzz, everyone should remember that Marquette has an institutional history of giving unknown or lessor experienced coach a chance.  That is how we got Al, Dukiet, O'Neil, Crean, etc.  The fact that we have had recent success in the Big East and the NCAA does not mean you will absolutely be able to attract the top coaches on the market.  If that were the case Cinn. would not have fallen as far as it has. 

The fact remains that college basketball is a recruiting game.  The better talent you bring in, the more likely you will win.   I have never consider Roy Williams or Bill Self great game coaches but they have been able to bring in great talent.  In fact, I would argue that with their coaching ability they each needed to be at a school that is considered one of the top 6 or 7 premiere programs in college basketball in order to attract enough talent to overcome there coaching deficiencies.  I do not think Self would have gotten that Illinois team to the Final Four had he stayed at Illinois and not gone to Kansas.

[Marquette84]

Just because I'm still pissed that neither coach was contacted by Marquette.

Brownell

• Has won 127 games
• Coach of the Year two times
• Three regular season Conference championships
• Three Conference Tournament championships
• Made the NCAA Tournament three times
• And he's the winningest coach under 40

Consider this coach:

• Has won 124 games (vs. 60 losses)
• Coach of the year twice
• Two conference championships
  
• Made the NCAA tournament two times (pre expansion) and NIT two times
• Graduated 95% of his players.
• Was just the fourth coach in NCAA history to win 100 games within his first five seasons.
• Winningest coach in conference history
• Did so before the age of 35

No, not Mike Deane.

Pat Kennedy.  His stats are based after his first six seasons as a head coach at Iona--amazing how closely his accomplishments parallel Brad Brownell's.

And indicative of the folly of trying to use stats to "prove" that it was a mistake not to consider Brownell.

[Henry Sugar]

Pat Kennedy.  His stats are based after his first six seasons as a head coach at Iona--amazing how closely his accomplishments parallel Brad Brownell's.

And indicative of the folly of trying to use stats to "prove" that it was a mistake not to consider Brownell.

Kennedy did all that twenty two years ago.  They still wore short shorts back then.

What would have been the harm of considering Brownell?  Maybe he would have impressed Marquette as much as he did Indiana (who almost hired him)... and then you'd be telling all the naysayers what a great hire it was by Marquette.

[bilsu]

The fact is we will not really know how good or bad Buzz is until after his first full year with no Crean players. Wins and losses sometimes depend on the luck or whether players keep from getting injured. Just look at how much greater a coach Crean would have been considered if they MU had hit the last shot against Tulsa, Alabama and Stanford. These were basically three NCAA tournament games that could have been won in the last seconds of the game. Take away injuries to key players such as Diener and McNeal and Crean proably would have won another 5 games. So how do we rate Buzz. Is MU still considered an upper division Big East team 5 years from now. Remember how far Uconn fell in just one year. Considered at times to be the number one team in the country in 2006 to failing to make the NIT in 2007 and then making the NCAA tournament this year. This year they lost a first round game in overtime after their starting guard got hurt earlier in the game. We will have a good team next year and the year after could be a drop similar to Connecticut's. The question becomes does the team improve as Buzz's recruits get more experienced. Coaching is so much more than X'and O's. It is recruiting players that fit your style and do not hurt the team with bad attitudes. It is the ability to teach players fundamentals and team play. It is putting together a game plan. It is motivating and instilling confidence in players. It is handling refs during games. It is making game adjustments. I think the biggest things that Buzz will need to get experience in is game management and handling refs. Every year we should see better game decisions. Handling refs really comes from getting the refs to respect you. I suspect that this would be a problem for any new coach in the Big East.