5 years before you judge a coach

[Jay Bee]

Have you shipped my complimentary Kreurig coffee maker yet?

I'll check tomorrow or Monday.  (Keurig vs. Kreurig.)

I actually got Keurig during our annual Christmas raffle.  It rules, but I often use my regular coffee maker too - I throw down pots.. that one cup stuff isn't enough sometimes.

[The Equalizer]

Can we safely dispense with the 5th year and make a judgement now?    Great coaching job by Buzz.   Great effort and hustle by Murray St.   But Buzz took their 3 pt shooters off of their spots.    Best defensive job I have seen from a Buzz-coached MU team.    Way to go, Buzz. 

The "five year" argument was made as much in reference to those who claimed Crean was a failure at Indiana as it was to Buzz at MU. 

For all the sound and fury about it over the years, it was (and remains) a sound argument. 

Look no further than Bruce Weber, who had a Sweet 16 and a Championship game appearance in his first two seasons at Illinois. 
 
At the other extreme, Kevin O'Neill was just 11-18 in his second season at Marquette. Coach K was just 10-17 his second year at Duke.   

Well, maybe it only takes 4 years instead of 5--but the main point was that two years is too early to tell.

[MUMac]

The "five year" argument was made as much in reference to those who claimed Crean was a failure at Indiana as it was to Buzz at MU. 

For all the sound and fury about it over the years, it was (and remains) a sound argument. 

Look no further than Bruce Weber, who had a Sweet 16 and a Championship game appearance in his first two seasons at Illinois. 
 
At the other extreme, Kevin O'Neill was just 11-18 in his second season at Marquette. Coach K was just 10-17 his second year at Duke.   

Well, maybe it only takes 4 years instead of 5--but the main point was that two years is too early to tell.

No, the five year argument had nothing to do with Crean and IU.  It had everything to do with how you do with your own players.  With what was left, we found that out far sooner than 5 years.

[MU82]

Buzz is an outstanding game coach. Period. And he has heart, too. Proud he's my team's coach, and have been for years.

[Dawson Rental]

But it was announced before it all happened.

As far as this thread go, we won't get the opportunity to judge him after 5 years.  4 is all we get.  He's going to Illinois.  I mean, Texas.  I mean, Southern Illinois.  I mean...

Of course we will.  How he does in first years at two different schools was always a big part of the criteria.  If he stays, I guess we will have to give him an incomplete.

Its time to get too that more immediate question; "Does Buzz have what it takes to coach in the NCAA tournament?"

[Hoopaloop]

The "five year" argument was made as much in reference to those who claimed Crean was a failure at Indiana as it was to Buzz at MU. 

For all the sound and fury about it over the years, it was (and remains) a sound argument. 

Look no further than Bruce Weber, who had a Sweet 16 and a Championship game appearance in his first two seasons at Illinois. 
 
At the other extreme, Kevin O'Neill was just 11-18 in his second season at Marquette. Coach K was just 10-17 his second year at Duke.   

Well, maybe it only takes 4 years instead of 5--but the main point was that two years is too early to tell.

THIS.   5 years makes sense to me because it puts a complete class of recruits through.  Seems the OP is trying to start something, similar to last week's thread about Chris Lowery.  As if he was trying to single several posters out.  You mad bro, or something? 

I don't understand the thread to begin with.  We just had a great win and got to the Sweet 16 for the first time in 35 years.  Some guys will want to wait to judge a coach (for reasons mentioned by Equalizer) and some won't.  The interesting thing is that some of the very same guys that opined in this thread didn't want to give 5 years to the departed.  5 years for some, less than 5 years for others.   

[NersEllenson]

THIS.   5 years makes sense to me because it puts a complete class of recruits through.  Seems the OP is trying to start something, similar to last week's thread about Chris Lowery.  As if he was trying to single several posters out.  You mad bro, or something? 

I don't understand the thread to begin with.  We just had a great win and got to the Sweet 16 for the first time in 35 years.  Some guys will want to wait to judge a coach (for reasons mentioned by Equalizer) and some won't.  The interesting thing is that some of the very same guys that opined in this thread didn't want to give 5 years to the departed.  5 years for some, less than 5 years for others.   

What??  You and 84/Equalizer's posts here = character revealed.  You get what you earn.  Give it up already.  Revel in the fact that both Tom Crean and Buzz Williams have guided their teams to the Sweet 16 this year.  Please support our current coach..and stop trying to belittle him, and those who support him - due to your own personal affections for the previous coach that chose to leave MU...and the way in which he did so - alienated some of his former fans and players at MU.

[Goose]

I do not know if Buzz is great game coach or not, but he sure knows how to get athletic players. In addition it is obvious the kids respond very well to message and play their hearts out. I would say with 100% confidence that Buzz is the best coach the program had had since later March of 1978.

[4everwarriors]

Definitely, only I'd amend your statement to read, Buzz is the best coach MU has had since the final horn went off at the Omni in ATL on Monday evening, March 28, 1977.

[jmayer1]

We just had a great win and got to the Sweet 16 for the first time in 35 years. 

The 93-94, 02-03, and 10-11 teams just called! 

Perhaps you meant to say went to the the Sweet 16 in back to back years for the first time in 35 years?!

[connie]

I think all we need to know about Buzz was on display in the post game presser.  Love for his players, love for his family, respect for player's growth, and an insane memory for stats that translates into his coaching.  Very proud to have that man as my team's coach.

[Goose]

Thanks 4ever. Posted late and was 99.9% sure it was March 28 but did not want to get bashed if I said the 29th. No doubt Buzz is the best because for me it all comes down to getting studs and he can recruit studs. In addition, like Al, he can mesh kids from different backgrounds and keep them focused on common goal. I have been saying Dream Big for weeks and I know every guy on that team is playing to win NCAA. Every team says that I believe our team and coach believes it.

[4everwarriors]

Whether its Norfolk St., Fla., MSU, or SLU, I like the Warriors chances of advancing to NOLA. Once they're there, I'm not crazy about a match up with UK, OSU, UNC, or KU. But, wtf, we'll discuss that later, why worry now?

[MuMark]

I think it depends on the situation and the personality of the player. Can he take it? How will he respond.


I recall the game in the BET last year or 2 years ago when Buzz went off on Fulce during a time out.

I always believe in giving a guy a chance. One of the things I reality like about Buzz is he is not a Frank Martin type. By that I mean he does not scream in a players face.

[VegasWarrior77]

Bob Huggins: Thank you...Finally someone sees my side of things.

+1

[CTWarrior]

This is a pointless discussion, with both sides distorting the other side's point of view. 

There are lots of things a coach is responsible for, but primarily it is recruiting players and coaching the games. 

To get a full view of a coach, it takes time.  I think in pretty much all cases, after 5 years you have a pretty good handle on what you have.  After five years all the players are yours including an extra year to lay down recruiting seeds, and you've had ample opportunity to display your coaching prowess or lack thereof.

But it is folly to think 5 years is a hard and fast rule, of course.  I think Buzz has proven himself quite nicely after 4, and when you consider the missing freshman and sophomore classes he inherited due to transfers after Crean left, you can argue that he had proven himself by the start of year 3.

In other words, if Marquette slips some and goes to the NIT next year, I'll be disappointed but it won't change the idea that I want Buzz coaching in Milwaukee for a long time.

[Hoopaloop]

The 93-94, 02-03, and 10-11 teams just called! 

Perhaps you meant to say went to the the Sweet 16 in back to back years for the first time in 35 years?!

Much green beer consumed yesterday and last night.    First time back to back Sweet 16 in about 35 years.

[Warriors 79]

Buzz:  Best bench coach since Al.  Best recruiter since Al. Quirkiest coach (love it) since Al. Best post game quotes since Al. Classiest coach since Al. Dances to beat of his own drum, like Al.

I'm 54, graduated from Marq in 1979, Dad and Mom from Marq in 1953/1954 and Dad Marq Law in 1957.  Season tickets in family since 1971.
 
We have lived the Marquette Experience since they were the Hilltoppers.  Knew Buzz was the real deal after his first season. Don't need 5 years.  If he leaves, let's make sure it has NOTHING to do with Marquette, with Fr. Pilarz or the Domer AD Williams.

Love nothing more than to see him as our legacy coach for a very long time to come. Are you listening, MU Admin?  Don't blow this one. Buzz is the best ambassador Marquette has. Period.

[Dawson Rental]

Buzz:  Best bench coach since Al.  Best recruiter since Al. Quirkiest coach (love it) since Al. Best post game quotes since Al. Classiest coach since Al. Dances to beat of his own drum, like Al.

I'm 54, graduated from Marq in 1979, Dad and Mom from Marq in 1953/1954 and Dad Marq Law in 1957.  Season tickets in family since 1971.
 
We have lived the Marquette Experience since they were the Hilltoppers.  Knew Buzz was the real deal after his first season. Don't need 5 years.  If he leaves, let's make sure it has NOTHING to do with Marquette, with Fr. Pilarz or the Domer AD Williams.

Love nothing more than to see him as our legacy coach for a very long time to come. Are you listening, MU Admin?  Don't blow this one. Buzz is the best ambassador Marquette has. Period.

I would argue that Kevin O'Neil would be in the discussion for all of those, except classiest.  But, Kev didn't stick around, did he?  So, screw him, unless, of course, we have Kev to thank for MU coming to its senses about the need to pay top dollar for top coaching talent.

[AZWarrior]

While he was flawed, he did bring us out from the dark ages, and for that I will forever be grateful to him.