Tokoto Recaps Roy Williams Visit

[willie warrior]

Looking more bleak each day. Time to move on and land a big in Otule's caliber to keep Sultan happy.

[Lighthouse 84]

Ari, UW just finished a brand new college of business building a few years ago. State of the art everything. Think our new law school, only a building for people who contribute to society above and beyond that of ambulance chasers.  

Meanwhile, Marquette's college of business building is straight out of the 1950's and the business faculty have their offices in former broom closets.

- Signed, a former undergrad Arts & Sciences major.

I'm guessing you're unemployed 07? 

If JP's going to business school, and doesn't go to NC, maybe he should play for Tan Tommy.  I-4 has a great business school.

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

I'm guessing you're unemployed 07? 

If JP's going to business school, and doesn't go to NC, maybe he should play for Tan Tommy.  I-4 has a great business school.

Nope, very happily employed. Moreso thanks to my MS than my BA.

[GGGG]

If JP goes to MU, UW, UNC or Duke, he will be getting a fine business degree that will place him in a position to succeed after graduation even if he doesn't make the NBA.  These discussions over rankings are not really all that relevant.

[StillAWarrior]

Hopefully this won't cause anyone here to question my love for Marquette's program, but if my son had the options Tokoto has (a man's got to dream, right), I'd have a hard time pushing him too hard to go to Marquette.  Make no mistake, I would push a little, but not too hard.  This kid has great options, and as much of a homer as I am, I can't honestly say that I think Marquette is his best option.  I hope he comes, but I'd be totally shocked.

[GGGG]

Hopefully this won't cause anyone here to question my love for Marquette's program, but if my son had the options Tokoto has (a man's got to dream, right), I'd have a hard time pushing him too hard to go to Marquette.  Make no mistake, I would push a little, but not too hard.  This kid has great options, and as much of a homer as I am, I can't honestly say that I think Marquette is his best option.  I hope he comes, but I'd be totally shocked.

Makes perfect sense.  The reasons you chose to come to MU, and may have been a good fit for you, doesn't mean that the same will hold true for your children.

[Tugg Speedman]

I agree that what is right for us (MU Grads or current students) may not be right for our kids.

But, why is UNC better for JPT?  Because it is UNC?  In case you have not notied, UNC was and NIT team last year and ranked behind MU this year. 

Because the weather is nicer and its late January (when all us Eskimos are hating this part of the country)?

If JPT goes to UNC, he better be prepared as Roy will continue to recruit top ten players to knock him out of the starting line-up.  Harrison Barnes will probably be staying given his disappointing season.  JPT could risk going to UNC and riding the bench.

If he goes to a school like MU, where Buzz has coached 6'6" wings that are first round picks and another (Wes) highly successful in the NBA, he plays sooner and more minutes.

Playing for a BE team does not hurt your NBA prospects (except DePaul right now).

The question is whether he wants to move away.  Jamil Wilson thought he did and now he's with MU.  This is the question JPT needs to think long and hard about.

[Lennys Tap]

going to NBA > business school.

Bingo. If Tokoto's the real deal, he'll be able to hire the best and brightest to watch his money. He can devote his free time to spending it, or if he gets bored, counting it.

[Ari Gold]

Nope, very happily employed. Moreso thanks to my MS than my BA.

but still very very bitter

[StillAWarrior]

I agree that what is right for us (MU Grads or current students) may not be right for our kids.

But, why is UNC better for JPT?  Because it is UNC?  In case you have not notied, UNC was and NIT team last year and ranked behind MU this year. 

Because the weather is nicer and its late January (when all us Eskimos are hating this part of the country)?

If JPT goes to UNC, he better be prepared as Roy will continue to recruit top ten players to knock him out of the starting line-up.  Harrison Barnes will probably be staying given his disappointing season.  JPT could risk going to UNC and riding the bench.

If he goes to a school like MU, where Buzz has coached 6'6" wings that are first round picks and another (Wes) highly successful in the NBA, he plays sooner and more minutes.

Playing for a BE team does not hurt your NBA prospects (except DePaul right now).

The question is whether he wants to move away.  Jamil Wilson thought he did and now he's with MU.  This is the question JPT needs to think long and hard about.

I agree that it's a tough decision that he should think long and hard about.  And I wasn't just talking about UNC.  When you boil it down, in my opinion there are schools that he could go to that are:  a) better basketball programs than Marquette right now; b) better basketball programs than Marquette historically; c) better schools than Marquette; and d) all of the above.  I say this, at least in part, because I think Tokoto could probably attend pretty much any school in the country that has a DI program.  Even those that haven't recruited him would probably offer if he approached them (like Mayo and USC).  I love Marquette and it is quite possible that it is the single best place for JP.  But, with the sheer number of options out there for him, that would be saying a lot.

Probably an unpopular thing to say, but if my son was offered a basketball scholarship at Duke, I'd have a real hard time pushing him in any other direction.  Great school.  Great coach.  Great program.  Probably going to be in the national championship picture at least once while there.  Obviously, I'd want to visit and all that, but it would be hard to turn that down.  Even if you did have to deal with other elite players coming in every year.  And there are some other schools I'd feel the same about.  But, for what it's worth, my son has his heart set on Stanford (and he's never going to sniff a basketball scholarship).

[Fullodds]

Don't discount Duke.

[Lighthouse 84]

but still very very bitter

Exactly what I was thinking.  Couldn't get into law school (or if he di, couldn't hack it) so he's nothing but a warped, frustrated young man.

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

Exactly what I was thinking.  Couldn't get into law school (or if he di, couldn't hack it) so he's nothing but a warped, frustrated young man.

Never applied nor had any desire to. Ever. I'm just one of the tens of millions of Americans who can't stand lawyers.

What does "di" mean?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Bingo. If Tokoto's the real deal, he'll be able to hire the best and brightest to watch his money. He can devote his free time to spending it, or if he gets bored, counting it.

But as we all know here, MU has only sent one more kid to the NBA than UW in the last decade.   


And UNC sends a crapload more than MU or UW combined.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I agree that what is right for us (MU Grads or current students) may not be right for our kids.

But, why is UNC better for JPT?  Because it is UNC?  In case you have not notied, UNC was and NIT team last year and ranked behind MU this year. 

Because the weather is nicer and its late January (when all us Eskimos are hating this part of the country)?

If JPT goes to UNC, he better be prepared as Roy will continue to recruit top ten players to knock him out of the starting line-up.  Harrison Barnes will probably be staying given his disappointing season.  JPT could risk going to UNC and riding the bench.

If he goes to a school like MU, where Buzz has coached 6'6" wings that are first round picks and another (Wes) highly successful in the NBA, he plays sooner and more minutes.

Playing for a BE team does not hurt your NBA prospects (except DePaul right now).

The question is whether he wants to move away.  Jamil Wilson thought he did and now he's with MU.  This is the question JPT needs to think long and hard about.

Several questions for you.

Do you think Buzz isn't going to try and recruit better players each year as well?

Who were the multiple players that Buzz coached that were first round picks?  Lazar and ?

Playing for an ACC school doesn't hurt his NBA chances either, correct?

Yes, UNC was NIT last year but they are projected as a RPI 22.4 this year.  We are at 55.9 which is bubble city. What if MU ends up being the NIT team this year?

[Tugg Speedman]

I agree that it's a tough decision that he should think long and hard about.  And I wasn't just talking about UNC.  When you boil it down, in my opinion there are schools that he could go to that are:  a) better basketball programs than Marquette right now; b) better basketball programs than Marquette historically; c) better schools than Marquette; and d) all of the above.  I say this, at least in part, because I think Tokoto could probably attend pretty much any school in the country that has a DI program.  Even those that haven't recruited him would probably offer if he approached them (like Mayo and USC).  I love Marquette and it is quite possible that it is the single best place for JP.  But, with the sheer number of options out there for him, that would be saying a lot.

Probably an unpopular thing to say, but if my son was offered a basketball scholarship at Duke, I'd have a real hard time pushing him in any other direction.  Great school.  Great coach.  Great program.  Probably going to be in the national championship picture at least once while there.  Obviously, I'd want to visit and all that, but it would be hard to turn that down.  Even if you did have to deal with other elite players coming in every year.  And there are some other schools I'd feel the same about.  But, for what it's worth, my son has his heart set on Stanford (and he's never going to sniff a basketball scholarship).

Going with you hypothetical ... your son better be "One and Done" or "Two and Done" material to go to Duke or he is not starting.  You think Duke because of the quality of the degree.  Your son could care less.  He out of there in two years and signs with the NBA for more money than the typical Duke Grad makes before he is 40.

Also their is "culture shock" if you're note familiar with Durham, especially if you're African-American.  Duke has had a number of inner city African-American transfers from Duke.  If have no idea where JPT head is on this front.

No doubt Duke is an excellent program maybe the best.  But it is not right for everyone.

(Thought ... what becomes of Duke after Coach K?  See IU, See UNC after Dean retired.  See MU circa 1978 to 1981)

[Tugg Speedman]

Do you think Buzz isn't going to try and recruit better players each year as well?

Yes but half of MU will not be McDonald's AA like UNC.  (I hope Buzz proves me wrong here).

Who were the multiple players that Buzz coached that were first round picks?  Lazar and ?

Read what I wrote.  Buzz has coached 6'6" wings that are first round picks and another (Wes) highly successful in the NBA.

Wes has repeatedly said Buzz's coaching his senior year was like "lifting a blanket off his head"  So go ahead and give Crean credit for this, Wes disagrees.

Playing for an ACC school doesn't hurt his NBA chances either, correct?

Never said it was.  I read other comments implying that MU and the BE was.

[g0lden3agle]

Read what I wrote.  Buzz has coached a 6'6" wing that are was a first round pick and another (Wes) highly successful in the NBA.

I think he was looking for proper use of singular/plural here.

[Ari Gold]

If JP goes to MU, UW, UNC or Duke, he will be getting a fine business degree that will place him in a position to succeed after graduation even if he doesn't make the NBA.  These discussions over rankings are not really all that relevant.

Boom! agree... weird

Further I'd argue that though JP may 'love' coach roy and Coach bo, maybe he sours on some of Roy's assistants or really loves buzz's assistants. I can only speculate. But I think that the assistant coaches play a large role in recruiting, though the players may not talk about that.

[StillAWarrior]

Going with you hypothetical ... your son better be "One and Done" or "Two and Done" material to go to Duke or he is not starting.  You think Duke because of the quality of the degree.  Your son could care less.  He out of there in two years and signs with the NBA for more money than the typical Duke Grad makes before he is 40.

Also their is "culture shock" if you're note familiar with Durham, especially if you're African-American.  Duke has had a number of inner city African-American transfers from Duke.  If have no idea where JPT head is on this front.

No doubt Duke is an excellent program maybe the best.  But it is not right for everyone.

(Thought ... what becomes of Duke after Coach K?  See IU, See UNC after Dean retired.  See MU circa 1978 to 1981)

I agree with pretty much everything you said.  But one thing I would point out is that most "one and done" kids don't lack in self confidence.  They believe that they can go anywhere and get it done.  I'd be very interested to see an analysis of where the majority of the one and done kids have gone in the last 10 years.  I suspect that it trends pretty heavily toward schools that are known to be recruiting and signing absolute top flight talent every year, but I'm perfectly willing to admit that I'm wrong on that if the data shows otherwise.

And again, I don't mean to focus on Duke.  I suspect that Tokoto has his choice of most of the 345 DI schools.  If Durham isn't to his liking, he could go to Chapel Hill, Columbus, Lexington, Austin, Spokane, Los Angeles, Pittsburgh, etc., etc., etc.  What I'm really trying to say, is that it's not just Marquette v. UNC; or Marquette v. Duke; or Marquette v. Wisconsin.  It's Marquette v. the Field for the services of a blue chip player.  History shows that even if there's a case to be made for Marquette, it's prudent to bet on "the Field" in that match up.  Assuming Tokoto is really that good (and the list of schools that have offered suggests that he is), I really hope he goes against history and plays for Marquette.

[Lighthouse 84]

Never applied nor had any desire to. Ever. I'm just one of the tens of millions of Americans who can't stand lawyers.

What does "di" mean?

Sorry, "did".  I was typing on my Blackberry.  Whatever your profession, I'm sure there are people who can't stand those of you in that line of work too.  Doesn't mean all are bad 07.  Just sayin.

[Litehouse]

If he picks UNC, Duke, or one of the other big time out-of-state programs I would understand.  But Tokoto going to UW would bother me.

[GGGG]

If he picks UNC, Duke, or one of the other big time out-of-state programs I would understand.  But Tokoto going to UW would bother me.

Yeah...me too.  It would mark the first time Buzz goes head to head with Bo over a major in-state prospect and loses.  And loses to a team whose style and system matches up less well with J.P.'s talents than Buzz's does.

[warthog-driver]

Michigan has a better business school than UW-madison, no question.  But Madison's is better than MU's which is what the comparison was.  I think Tokoto is interested in Stanford (#1 business school) and UCLA (top 15 as well).  North Carolina's is ranked ahead of Madison's as well.

We ought not compare undergrad business schools since the reputations are really built on the MBA programs. My only gripe with the UW-Madison crowd is the unrealistic perception they have of their school. As I said, I went to an Ivy and to Ann Arbor for grad work and not once did I ever hear one person lament, "well, I couldn't get into Wisconsin so I had to settle for Harvard/Michigan..." Those pricks in Madison over rate themselves. They are like the Field Marshall Montgomery's of the academic world...

[Tugg Speedman]

Probably an unpopular thing to say, but if my son was offered a basketball scholarship at Duke, I'd have a real hard time pushing him in any other direction.  Great school.  Great coach.  Great program.  Probably going to be in the national championship picture at least once while there.  Obviously, I'd want to visit and all that, but it would be hard to turn that down.  Even if you did have to deal with other elite players coming in every year.  And there are some other schools I'd feel the same about.  But, for what it's worth, my son has his heart set on Stanford (and he's never going to sniff a basketball scholarship).

Another thought ... this is the response of a typical middle-aged, middle-class white suburban father of a white son in a well-to-do suburban school.  I know this because I'm close to this demographic and this would be my response.

Their list of schools is will often include Duke, ND, Stanford, An Ivy and the Big State University.

And by the way, we don't know if this is true because since 1995, When Garnett jumped from high school to the NBA (and started the "modern era" of coming out early), no white player has ever left school early and made it to the NBA.

Now if you're the single parent of a highly prized "One and Done" recruited living in public housing amidst gang violence, your list of schools is much different (to be clear, I'm NOT talking about JPT here).  It's headed by Kentucky because "Coach Cal" has the thing you need the most ... the biggest bag of cash.

School choice is a matter of demographic and what is important to you.  Not everyone oohs and awww at the schools rich white guys like.