Malaise

[wadesworld]

I thought of this today.  I think the vitriol towards Markus is shameful.  The Wojo dislike is fine.  That’s the nature of fandom.  The coach always gets more blame than credit. 

I still think back to an exchange I had with a Marquette alum after Crean left.  I asked who he thought would be the next coach and he was absolutely convinced it could be John Calipari.  That sticks with me to this day.  Expectations versus reality are not the same thing.

Yup. Markus chose to stay and try to get some wins when it matters. The Hausers decided, for whatever reason it may be, that neither Herro nor Markus were the guys they wanted to play with and they went to two programs that have had a history of success in the Tournament. The Hausers mean as much to me now as Cassius Winston or Kihei Clarke. Wish them neither good nor bad luck. Don’t care if they go 0-33 or 40-0. Go Marquette. Which means go Markus. Our 2nd Team All American, Big East Player of the Year, Preseason First Team All American, and, from everything I’ve seen, heard, and personally experienced, good human being.

[Billy Hoyle]

You "feel" a lot of things in this paragraph, Billy. And you make several assumptions based on these "feelings" But you offer zero evidence to back up any of your "feelings". #Worthless

if someone doesn't give or support the university and our teams because of a mascot change 26 years ago they weren't going to support it anyway. It's a mascot. It's not like Michigan State harboring and covering up for a rapist doctor or Penn State covering up for a pedophile coach.

Oh, it was only one "assumption" (and anyone who ever made fundraising calls saw those who gave very little to zero used the nickname as their justification for not giving).

#livinginthepast #getoverit

[Lennys Tap]

They didn’t want to play with Markus. They didn’t want to play with Herro. They don’t want to play with players who are better than them (a lottery pick and an All American).

They didn't want to play with anybody better than them so they transferred to Michigan St and Virginia? LOL

[wadesworld]

They didn't want to play with anybody better than them so they transferred to Michigan St and Virginia? LOL

Sure seems like it. Who’s going to be better than them on those rosters in a year? I’ll hang up and listen. Please educate me.

[shoothoops]

if someone doesn't give or support the university and our teams because of a mascot change 26 years ago they weren't going to support it anyway. It's a mascot. It's not like Michigan State harboring and covering up for a rapist doctor or Penn State covering up for a pedophile coach.

Oh, it was only one "assumption" (and anyone who ever made fundraising calls saw those who gave very little to zero used the nickname as their justification for not giving).

#livinginthepast #getoverit

I (sadly) know a wealthy, higher profile, MU donor family that discontinued its relationship with MU many years ago because MU hosted a high profile politician from an opposing political party. Some of the family continued to support MU and some did not. You’d be surprised at some of the stories out there.

[Cheeks]

Go Marquette

[Lennys Tap]

Sure seems like it. Who’s going to be better than them on those rosters in a year? I’ll hang up and listen. Please educate me.

We don't know who's going to be on those rosters next year so I won't go on that fool's errand. But I'm willing to wager that MSU and UVA will be will be better than MU was last year. If Sam and Joey are the "stars" of those teams it will speak volumes about the three coaches.

[wadesworld]

We don't know who's going to be on those rosters next year so I won't go on that fool's errand. But I'm willing to wager that MSU and UVA will be will be better than MU was last year. If Sam and Joey are the "stars" of those teams it will speak volumes about the three coaches.

Got it.

I suppose the Hausers won't improve being a 5th year senior vs. 3rd year junior and a 3rd year sophomore vs. 1st year freshman.  Of course not.

But I'm shocked that Tony Bennett and Tom Izzo are better coaches than Steve Wojciechowski.  Shocked.

[Lennys Tap]

Oh, it was only one "assumption" (and anyone who ever made fundraising calls saw those who gave very little to zero used the nickname as their justification for not giving).

#livinginthepast #getoverit

One assumption? You assumed things about 1) MU alums who didn't like the name change, 2) right wingers who boycott Nordstroms, 3) left wingers who boycott Chik-fil-et, and 4) left wingers who boycott Jimmy Johns.

Short on facts and long on assumptions is no way to go through life, Billy Boy.

[mu_hilltopper]

Go Marquette

Damnit, do you have to ruin everything?!?!?

[Dr. Blackheart]

That Buffalo game was one of the best home games in years. SHU will be a knife fight this year. The Badger game always has been an incredible vibe...especially the post-game chant down the escalator last year. The sweater vests are much more into the games and the students are closer. I firmly believe this will be a very good team. The ending was not a happy one for sure. If you are suffering MUBB Malaise along the way, get an ED pill.

Btw, malaise is far superior to DePaul apathy.  Count our blessings. More people participate on Scoop in a day than attend a DePaul home game. That will give you a slap in the face. 

[Silent Verbal]

At what point will Wojo be held to the same standard as Crean and Buzz?  Wojo’s first five years pale in comparison to what those two accomplished, and Crean had the far tougher rebuilding job.  We were a borderline mid-major when he took over for Deane.  One idea being floated around is that Wojo is Crean without the Final Four.  Is that supposed to be a compliment?  That’s like saying an actor is F. Murray Abraham without Amadeus.

Milwaukee is a soft sports market, and Marquette mostly flies under the radar unless they’re exceptionally good.  So, zero pressure from the media, zero from the MU administration.  Wojo has been treated with kid gloves by all but a few posters on here, and even that’s not good enough for some of his biggest fans.  Hell, earlier today we had a poster make a personal attack about another poster’s dietary and life choices because he wasn’t showing “unconditional” support for our coach.  Seriously?  If you want to carry the torch for a guy who’s making over a million bucks a year, has won zero NCAA Tournament games, and looks like he’s gonna miss out on yet another big time recruit he’s been very publicly courting for months, that’s your business.  But making personal attacks on people for not sharing your opinions is a bunch of crap, IMO.

Let’s see if Wojo can get it done this year. 

[Cheeks]

At what point will Wojo be held to the same standard as Crean and Buzz?  Wojo’s first five years pale in comparison to what those two accomplished, and Crean had the far tougher rebuilding job.  We were a borderline mid-major when he took over for Deane.  One idea being floated around is that Wojo is Crean without the Final Four.  Is that supposed to be a compliment?  That’s like saying an actor is F. Murray Abraham without Amadeus.

Milwaukee is a soft sports market, and Marquette mostly flies under the radar unless they’re exceptionally good.  So, zero pressure from the media, zero from the MU administration.  Wojo has been treated with kid gloves by all but a few posters on here, and even that’s not good enough for some of his biggest fans.  Hell, earlier today we had a poster make a personal attack about another poster’s dietary and life choices because he wasn’t showing “unconditional” support for our coach.  Seriously?  If you want to carry the torch for a guy who’s making over a million bucks a year, has won zero NCAA Tournament games, and looks like he’s gonna miss out on yet another big time recruit he’s been very publicly courting for months, that’s your business.  But making personal attacks on people for not sharing your opinions is a bunch of crap, IMO.

Let’s see if Wojo can get it done this year.

Here's the differences as I see them.

Wojo took over for a guy that crashed his last year and told anyone that would listen the conference was no good, and I'm ditching this place for Va Tech...for less money.  That doesn't look so hot.  Wojo had to follow that toxic departure.

Crean struck gold with Wade, no two ways about it.  Buzz struck gold by inheriting a massive amount of built-in talent.   Wojo did not get the latter benefit, and has yet to strike a Wade like talent...very few coaches do.

The results haven't been the same, the conditions haven't been either.  Disagree there is zero pressure, that's a gross overstatement.  End of the day, he put the team in the post season three straight years, hasn't had off-court issues, the arena was selling out, we were considered a top team much of the year, we have a great All-American who embodies much of the MU character the school strives to project.  That's going to translate into a lot of decent to good feelings.

I am curious to see how this year goes.  I am optimistic.

[Shooter McGavin]

I very much looked forward to games against Louisville, even though they owned us.  When Huggins was @Cincy, those were acrimonious games too.  Notre Dame. 
 If 50 years is your time horizon, DePaul.     

Unfortunately the ND rivalry is over.  No one is aware that it existed unless you are in your late 40s.  Cincinnati and Louisville rivalries were flashes in the pan but rivalries nonetheless due to conference affiliation.  I think the home and away format of the new conference will lead to outstanding rivalries as the years go on.  I can’t wait for the SH games this year.  I hope we pound those guys into the ground.   I’m starting to hate Georgetown as well with that pouty looking white shooting guard.  I really want to contribute to St. John’s never being good again.  Butler and their fans are really starting to annoy the F out of me (I live in Indiana) and DePaul would be an instant rivalry if they got their act together.

I think this conference is really good.  People pining for the days of conference USA with Louisville and Cincinnati as rivals are not appreciating what is taking place in front o their face.  UConn did not rejoin our conference because it sucks.  It is damn good and you people need to get fired up for this season.  We have a freaking All-American on our team and some tough kids to go along with him.   Let’s get behind this team and have fun.  Screw the malaise!   Fire up Marquette!!!!!!!

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

The DePaul rivaly continues, but has really lost its luster.

[Galway Eagle]

At what point will Wojo be held to the same standard as Crean and Buzz?  Wojo’s first five years pale in comparison to what those two accomplished, and Crean had the far tougher rebuilding job.  We were a borderline mid-major when he took over for Deane.  One idea being floated around is that Wojo is Crean without the Final Four.  Is that supposed to be a compliment?  That’s like saying an actor is F. Murray Abraham without Amadeus.

Milwaukee is a soft sports market, and Marquette mostly flies under the radar unless they’re exceptionally good.  So, zero pressure from the media, zero from the MU administration.  Wojo has been treated with kid gloves by all but a few posters on here, and even that’s not good enough for some of his biggest fans.  Hell, earlier today we had a poster make a personal attack about another poster’s dietary and life choices because he wasn’t showing “unconditional” support for our coach.  Seriously?  If you want to carry the torch for a guy who’s making over a million bucks a year, has won zero NCAA Tournament games, and looks like he’s gonna miss out on yet another big time recruit he’s been very publicly courting for months, that’s your business.  But making personal attacks on people for not sharing your opinions is a bunch of crap, IMO.

Let’s see if Wojo can get it done this year.

it was in poor taste. Ive been frustrated by some posts of his on the recruiting thread mixed with a bad cold meant poor post decisions. My bad everyone

[Lennys Tap]

Got it.

I suppose the Hausers won't improve being a 5th year senior vs. 3rd year junior and a 3rd year sophomore vs. 1st year freshman.  Of course not.

But I'm shocked that Tony Bennett and Tom Izzo are better coaches than Steve Wojciechowski.  Shocked.

So you think third year sophomore version of Joey and 5th year senior version of Sam would have been our stars last year? Or that Markus's usage would have gone down much under those circumstances? I don't. Nobody's gonna get the ball out of MH's hands - and that's the way Wojo wants it. Most here agree with Wojo. I'd prefer a little more distribution.

[wadesworld]

So you think third year sophomore version of Joey and 5th year senior version of Sam would have been our stars last year? Or that Markus's usage would have gone down much under those circumstances? I don't. Nobody's gonna get the ball out of MH's hands - and that's the way Wojo wants it. Most here agree with Wojo. I'd prefer a little more distribution.

I wish time traveling was available. Apparently the Hausers were open to remaining at Marquette so long as Markus (or Tyler) was not here. Unfortunately a 5th year Sam and 3rd year Joey in 2018-2019 were just not possible.

[Galway Eagle]

So you think third year sophomore version of Joey and 5th year senior version of Sam would have been our stars last year? Or that Markus's usage would have gone down much under those circumstances? I don't. Nobody's gonna get the ball out of MH's hands - and that's the way Wojo wants it. Most here agree with Wojo. I'd prefer a little more distribution.

not so much for sam I think he is what he is but id expect soph joey would have a bit better ball control to get his own shot

[Newsdreams]

"Unconditional support," hell no. I'm not a sheep or a follower in anything. I can and do think for myself. With regards to Wojo, it's obvious. He's out of his league.
BTW, and I seriously do not mean this in a condescending way, but your youth and naïveté is showing.

You seem too constipated get away from those conspiracy BS diets. Eat balance diet, constipation makes you grouchy. Those diets are akin to following infowars. By the way my Championship player connection say all old players love Wojo. But that is them, no matta!

[UNC Eagle]

My sole connection to Marquette basketball is that I have enjoyed the style of play over many years. They are the team I enjoy the most in college basketball so I am a fan by choice.  I am actually looking forward to the season this year, as I believe the team will be more in line with the gritty style of play that originally drew me into following Marquette basketball.

Also my perspective on Coach Wojo has evolved somewhat over the years.  I was not a fan of his as a player at Duke, and that carried over to his coaching days there. D-Bag pretty much summed up my view to him.  However, since he came to Marquette  I see him as trying to put his own imprint on the program  and he seems to be going about things in a systematic way. Less of a D-bag and more of a guy working hard the best way he knows how to. There has been some success. Albeit, not at a rate that those invested more heavily in Marquette would like to see. I am sympathetic to those with that viewpoint. Especially given how much the school spends on the program.  I will point out that the coach seems to be steadily getting quality players to commit to the program each year. Also he seems to be consistently recruiting big men, which is something prior coaches had some challenges with ,and generally speaking ,is not an easy thing to do. Finally, the coach seems to understand the ability to sell playing time to stars /potential stars. He did get Henry Ellenson and Markus to join the program and was in the final discussion with guys like Manion, Grimes and now Davis / Garcia. Don't forget that Torrence was a player who switched grad years. If he stayed in 2020 he may have been  in range of being a Burger Boy based on his strong play in EYBL prior to matriculating.

I also like the Big East conference. The games are competitive and the brand of basketball is consistently enjoyable to watch.  Picking up U Conn moves the conference further down the quality path. I believe that new  addition will raise the level of every team in the league. The conference games are always competitive and the non conference schedule has quality opponents. The players in the league are generally older and thus the teams have a good chance at making tournament. So conference is on the uptrend as well.

So, while not seeing things through rose colored glasses by any means, I would say my bigger picture outlook is positive for Marquette basketball. Somebody posted a  historical Ken Pom ranking of programs  a while back and I think MU was somewhere around 32 33  .  So generally program is in a good place and can be built up.

Looking forward to the next few weeks and start of the season.

[Lennys Tap]

 
I still think back to an exchange I had with a Marquette alum after Crean left.  I asked who he thought would be the next coach and he was absolutely convinced it could be John Calipari.  That sticks with me to this day.  Expectations versus reality are not the same thing.

So you ran into the dumbest guy ever to go to Marquette. Unlucky for you.

[MU82]

I have absolutely no malaise toward Marquette basketball. I am excited for this season, just as I was enjoying last season while it was taking place, and I was looking forward to the 2018-19 season at this point last year, and each season before those.

I care. I want us to win, and win big. When I go to games, I stand and cheer a lot. When I'm watching at home, my dog has to leave the room because I'm too into the games. If I lived within 60 miles of Marquette, I'd have season tickets for sure. I loved going to DC for the 2013 Elite Eight. I loved being at the 2003 Final Four.

But I also find reasons to get something out of the MU teams that don't achieve to that degree, and I certainly don't let the bad seasons ruin my life. I'm stoked for the game, but if we lose, I move on. It's an outlet, it's not real life.

There are folks dealing with cancer and extreme financial distress and opioid addiction and overcooked Arby's, for cripe's sake. I try to keep things in perspective; I don't always succeed, I get frustrated at times just like everybody does, but I try. I know there are some who believe that keeping things in perspective and not losing one's shyte means one is a "lesser fan." I disagree, but whatevs.

I wish all of my fellow Warriors (and Golden Eagles) good fortune, and a great (and malaise-free) season ahead.

We are Marquette!

[Hards Alumni]

I decided to start a new thread where we can hash this out rather than continuing to pollute the recruiting thread with another tangent.

Why do some posters seem to revel more in Wojo's recruiting misses than his successes?

Why do so few care about Markus being a preseason first team AA?

Why do some hope Wojo does just well enough to be hired away?

Why do some continue to defend those who left while being derogatory to those who stayed? 

We are just a few weeks from the start of the season and we are busier parsing LeBron's thoughts on China than we are discussing potential rotations, who starts at the 4, who starts at the 5, zone options.  Why?

This is a fringe   top 25 preseason team with a high ceiling.  All some posters care about is a game against an unknown opponent 6 months away?

Is it Wojo? 
Are we tired of each other and scoop?   
Have all the basketball discussions been done before?   
Is it reflective of society around us?   
Even though we officially don't talk politics, is it bleeding through in our opinions about sports, each other, scoop?

Is it the years, the Crean vs. Buzz vs. Wojo debates having a cumulative effect?

Is it a couple of posters?

To me, this is becoming a joyless place.   Will winning change that?  24 wins didn't.  It made it worse.

A frustrating malaise.   

What is your complaint about MU hoops? 
 What is your solution? 
 Do you honestly believe there is a coach out there that is markedly better who would come to MU?   Name names.

But keep it here.   Let the recruiting thread be about recruiting.

I need to know where I fit in.  In fact, I crave this attention.

[Lennys Tap]

I have absolutely no malaise toward Marquette basketball. I am excited for this season, just as I was enjoying last season while it was taking place, and I was looking forward to the 2018-19 season at this point last year, and each season before those.

I care. I want us to win, and win big. When I go to games, I stand and cheer a lot. When I'm watching at home, my dog has to leave the room because I'm too into the games. If I lived within 60 miles of Marquette, I'd have season tickets for sure. I loved going to DC for the 2013 Elite Eight. I loved being at the 2003 Final Four.

But I also find reasons to get something out of the MU teams that don't achieve to that degree, and I certainly don't let the bad seasons ruin my life. I'm stoked for the game, but if we lose, I move on. It's an outlet, it's not real life.

There are folks dealing with cancer and extreme financial distress and opioid addiction and overcooked Arby's, for cripe's sake. I try to keep things in perspective; I don't always succeed, I get frustrated at times just like everybody does, but I try. I know there are some who believe that keeping things in perspective and not losing one's shyte means one is a "lesser fan." I disagree, but whatevs.

I wish all of my fellow Warriors (and Golden Eagles) good fortune, and a great (and malaise-free) season ahead.

We are Marquette!

I'm with you Mike. While Marquette basketball is one of my (and all Scoopers, I presume) big passions, our success (or lack thereof) won't cure cancer or solve the problem of world hunger. A tough loss, a bad season or a protracted "malaise" doesn't mean much compared to the health and happiness of those we love. We ALL get that. But this is a Marquette basketball website. People come here to celebrate, to commiserate and to bitch. It what fans do. You're an insightful and often extremely critical guy (on countless subjects), but when it comes to MU bball you generally check those qualities at the door in favor of a more enthusiastic approach. Doesn't make you a lesser (or better) fan. Just different. Everyone here decides how much objectivity to bring to their love and loyalty for MU. That's fine. But arguing over how much is appropriate isn't fine. It leads to arguments, baseless accusations (anyone here who knows 4ever and Goose knows they want nothing but success for MU) and enmity. We don't need to always agree on the state of our basketball program here, but it sure would be nice if we could acknowledge that disagreement doesn't equal disloyalty. Might even eliminate some of the "malaise".

We are Marquette - indeed.