aaron hernandez

[rocket surgeon]

 http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/19191248/former-new-england-patriots-te-aaron-hernandez-found-dead-prison-cell

  i was wondering how long he could take it, knowing he would never see the outside world again.  drugs and egos just do not mix-who really won this p!ssing contest?  i doubt he ever got the proper guidance he needed or he was just incapable of humility...we'll never know.   

[Jay Bee]

Heard he was hung, hey?

[4everwarriors]

Taxpayers caugt a break, ai na?

[Spotcheck Billy]

Taxpayers caugt a break, ai na?

a break would have been doing this before last week's trial even started, ai na?

[Pakuni]

Taxpayers caugt a break, ai na?

Right. Cause prisons don't have set budgets.
Each citizen of Mass. will receive .0001 cent back on their taxes this year.

[reinko]

This will get very interesting, by MA law, his murder conviction is now voided because it was under appeal, and lawyers could argue the Pats are now on the hook for portions of his contract...

Through an obscure and rarely invoked Massachusetts legal principle called abatement ab initio, because Hernandez had not exhausted all his appeals on his murder conviction, that conviction is essentially now voided. The practical effect of this is that evidence from Hernandez’s criminal trial cannot be used in any potential civil trials against his estate.

[MU82]

I'm not a death-penalty guy, and I generally consider myself a sympathetic guy. Nevertheless, I am having trouble whipping up any sympathy here. He had the world in his back pocket and he alone forked it up.

[GGGG]

One of the most heinous arguments for the death penalty IMO is that it "saves the taxpayers money."

[Pakuni]

I'm not a death-penalty guy, and I generally consider myself a sympathetic guy. Nevertheless, I am having trouble whipping up any sympathy here. He had the world in his back pocket and he alone forked it up.

Right. Don't have sympathy for Aaron Hernandez. He was far from a sympathetic person.
At the same time, it's kind of crappy to celebrate a person's suicide or revel in it as some kind of lucky tax break.

[Pakuni]

One of the most heinous arguments for the death penalty IMO is that it "saves the taxpayers money."

It's not only heinous, but it's patently false.
Death penalty cases are far more expensive to try, the appeals are longer and more costly, and the expense of maintaining a death row is well above that of the general prison population.

[wadesworld]

I obviously don't think suicide is ever an answer to one's problems, but I'm not going to say every suicide is an act of a coward.  Some people are dealt really crappy hands in life and I can't imagine how tough some burdens are to overcome.  But what Hernandez has done is show he's as big of a coward as you will ever see.  His problems were all his own doing.  He took multiple lives from this earth, caused tragedy for those families, and now can't live with those consequences.

[MU82]

Right. Don't have sympathy for Aaron Hernandez. He was far from a sympathetic person.
At the same time, it's kind of crappy to celebrate a person's suicide or revel in it as some kind of lucky tax break.

Agreed. I also agree with wades' last post.

[keefe]

I obviously don't think suicide is ever an answer to one's problems, but I'm not going to say every suicide is an act of a coward.  Some people are dealt really crappy hands in life and I can't imagine how tough some burdens are to overcome.  But what Hernandez has done is show he's as big of a coward as you will ever see.  His problems were all his own doing.  He took multiple lives from this earth, caused tragedy for those families, and now can't live with those consequences.

Every day 22 former service members commit suicide. That is 35% higher than the next highest demographic and almost 65% higher than the general population.

I assist with the Seattle VA Suicide Prevention Program and know that the risk factors include being male, single, former enlisted, and within 4 years separation from active duty.

What is interesting is that in total more non-deployers commit suicide but the rate for those who served in actual combat operations is 71% higher. Also, Purple Heart awardees have the highest suicide rate among veterans with a preponderance among those who are in both mental health treatment and prosthetic rehabilitation.

Suicide may be the act of a coward but that is hardly universal. I personally knew three Ranger-tabbed warriors who were absolutely fearless in the field but who struggled with life beyond the war and chose to eat a bullet. I could guess as to the why but none of us really knows. And the fact is that while help is available many see such services, especially mental health therapy, as a sign of weakness and even defeat.     

[StillAWarrior]

I suppose it is fair sometimes to say suicide is an act of a coward.  However, I believe in many cases that makes about as much sense as saying, "a high fever is the act of a coward" or "nausea is the act of a coward."  Sadly, suicide often is a symptom of a disease.  And, it's treatable.  Please, if you have suicidal thoughts, seek help.

[Tugg Speedman]

I obviously don't think suicide is ever an answer to one's problems, but I'm not going to say every suicide is an act of a coward.  Some people are dealt really crappy hands in life and I can't imagine how tough some burdens are to overcome.  But what Hernandez has done is show he's as big of a coward as you will ever see.  His problems were all his own doing.  He took multiple lives from this earth, caused tragedy for those families, and now can't live with those consequences.

Has it been established that it was a suicide and not a prison-house murder made to look like a suicide?

[wadesworld]

Has it been established that it was a suicide and not a prison-house murder made to look like a suicide?

He was locked in his own single jail cell with items lodging the cell door shut.

[wadesworld]

I suppose it is fair sometimes to say suicide is an act of a coward.  However, I believe in many cases that makes about as much sense as saying, "a high fever is the act of a coward" or "nausea is the act of a coward."  Sadly, suicide often is a symptom of a disease.  And, it's treatable.  Please, if you have suicidal thoughts, seek help.

No doubt.  Just in this case it is my opinion that this guy had the world in his hands and everything in front of him and willingly chose to ruin it all, ruin other peoples' lives, and couldn't live with the consequences of his insane actions.

[MerrittsMustache]

No doubt.  Just in this case it is my opinion that this guy had the world in his hands and everything in front of him and willingly chose to ruin it all, ruin other peoples' lives, and couldn't live with the consequences of his insane actions.

The word "willingly" stands out in this post. I'm far from convinced that a person who acts like Hernandez is clear of mental issues and just so happens to be a bad seed who willingly destroys lives. When Hernandez was 16, his father, with whom he was very close, passed away after routine surgery and his mother later married an abusive ex-con. Those types of things can take a toll on a young man's psyche. I'm not trying to defend or excuse Hernandez, but I just don't see this as a simple case of a guy who had it all but made some horrible decisions. I believe he had mental issues and possibly CTE.

[rocket surgeon]

     the mentality to take someone else's life because they "mean mugged" you or "diss'ed" you is incomprehensible.  where does one start...it seems to me that as society has lost a belief system in a higher power, there is no sense of wrong before a life is taken.  there may be a sense one did something wrong, but the feelings of guilt or remorse are foreign to these people

[MU82]

Every day 22 former service members commit suicide. That is 35% higher than the next highest demographic and almost 65% higher than the general population.

I assist with the Seattle VA Suicide Prevention Program and know that the risk factors include being male, single, former enlisted, and within 4 years separation from active duty.

What is interesting is that in total more non-deployers commit suicide but the rate for those who served in actual combat operations is 71% higher. Also, Purple Heart awardees have the highest suicide rate among veterans with a preponderance among those who are in both mental health treatment and prosthetic rehabilitation.

Suicide may be the act of a coward but that is hardly universal. I personally knew three Ranger-tabbed warriors who were absolutely fearless in the field but who struggled with life beyond the war and chose to eat a bullet. I could guess as to the why but none of us really knows. And the fact is that while help is available many see such services, especially mental health therapy, as a sign of weakness and even defeat.     

Sobering post, Crash.

[GGGG]

     the mentality to take someone else's life because they "mean mugged" you or "diss'ed" you is incomprehensible.  where does one start...it seems to me that as society has lost a belief system in a higher power, there is no sense of wrong before a life is taken.  there may be a sense one did something wrong, but the feelings of guilt or remorse are foreign to these people

Counterpoint:

https://mises.org/blog/fbi-us-homicide-rate-51-year-low

"As Pew has reported in recent years, in fact, the American public is "unaware" that the homicide rate in the United States has fallen by 49 percent over the past twenty years."

[Eldon]

I'm curious to see if his brain is examined for CTE.  His death doesn't seem related to symptoms of CTE, so it would be interesting to see if he has it.

[wadesworld]

The word "willingly" stands out in this post. I'm far from convinced that a person who acts like Hernandez is clear of mental issues and just so happens to be a bad seed who willingly destroys lives. When Hernandez was 16, his father, with whom he was very close, passed away after routine surgery and his mother later married an abusive ex-con. Those types of things can take a toll on a young man's psyche. I'm not trying to defend or excuse Hernandez, but I just don't see this as a simple case of a guy who had it all but made some horrible decisions. I believe he had mental issues and possibly CTE.

Fair point.  Anybody who murders someone has something going on in their head.  But I think there's an aura of invincibility around a lot of these professional athletes and they feel they can do pretty much whatever they want to.  What is logical to your "everyday" person is not the same as many of these professional athletes and entertainers.  What my response would be to someone who bumps into me at a bar and how some of these guys respond to the same thing are so vastly different, and it doesn't even have to be to the extreme that Hernandez took it.  They just live in a different world.

[rocket surgeon]

Counterpoint:

https://mises.org/blog/fbi-us-homicide-rate-51-year-low

"As Pew has reported in recent years, in fact, the American public is "unaware" that the homicide rate in the United States has fallen by 49 percent over the past twenty years."

you are right.  most people would guess the opposite.  but, rate vs. numbers?  i'm thinking when it hits close to home-doesn't really matter. 

[GGGG]

you are right.  most people would guess the opposite.  but, rate vs. numbers?  i'm thinking when it hits close to home-doesn't really matter. 

We know more because we have easier access to information.