Author Topic: Cavaliers Vs Magic (Read 18415 times)

Murffieus · « **on:** May 21, 2009, 08:16:52 AM »

Over the years I've mentioned the positives of the "wide post" or "isolation" (as some like to call it). I saw only the first half, but both Lebron James and Dwight Howard put on a great display of getting the ball on the cleared side wide and manipulating their way to score of the one on one or flip the ball back out for the trey off a double team----it's a 50%+ scoring experience.
Now for sure every team isn't endowed with a James or a Howard----but there is no position on the floor where one's quick/athletic #4 and in many cases a #5 or even #3 can line up and have the very best angle to the hoop to break down the defense.

If last night is any indication, it should be a good series with "isolation" or "wide post" playing a very prominent role.

BTW----speaking hypothetically, if I were coaching MU next year, I'd line Lazar up in that position and wide post the opposition to death----he's not as quick a manipulator to the hoop from wide, but he has a very good move there (similar to Vershaw of UW several years ago, but even better). Lazar has to learn to use his left hand more though----both dribbling to his left and finishing with his left hand.

mviale · « **Reply #1 on:** May 21, 2009, 03:54:42 PM »

2 of the Top 5 players in the world could win with any offense.

Murffieus · « **Reply #2 on:** May 21, 2009, 06:37:36 PM »

Quote from: mviale on May 21, 2009, 03:54:42 PM

2 of the Top 5 players in the world could win with any offense.

Well neither team has done anything in the past----this is the first year Lebron has been lining up wide on the cleared side-----he's unstoppable from there-----Howard almost as good wide. It's a 50%+ FG percentage experience for both.

avid1010 · « **Reply #3 on:** May 21, 2009, 08:34:00 PM »

Am I completely missing something or are you advocating clearing out or working the weak side with a James or Howard? I'm not sure anyone's going to argue that.... Wouldn't you consider many of MU's paint touches, especially to Hayward and Mathews as isolations? The NBA is all about mis-matches and isolations, I'm watching LA and Gasol take advantage of "bird man" as we speak on the weak side of Jackson's triangle offense.

Mayor McCheese · « **Reply #4 on:** May 22, 2009, 03:01:02 PM »

Quote from: Murffieus on May 21, 2009, 06:37:36 PM

Well neither team has done anything in the past----this is the first year Lebron has been lining up wide on the cleared side-----he's unstoppable from there-----Howard almost as good wide. It's a 50%+ FG percentage experience for both.

I'm sorry.. apparently making the NBA finals two years ago like what the Cavaliers did is nothing. If that is nothing, then I am scared what you declare the Milwaukee Bucks.

ecompt · « **Reply #5 on:** May 22, 2009, 04:09:45 PM »

Murff, where LeBron plays has nothing to do with Cleveland's success this year. The Cavs wre winning because they added one of the pure shooters in the game, Mo Williams, to the team. Eighty percent of the time LeBron comes out to the top of the key to receive the ball, so he's not playing a wide post, anyway.

Murffieus · « **Reply #6 on:** May 23, 2009, 12:13:40 PM »

sorry ecompt----but Lebron's playoff FG percentage has gone from 47% in the regular season to 55% here in the playoffs-----the first i saw Cleveland using Lebron on the wide post has been the playoffs which allows him to get inside more------meanwhile Mo William's trey percentage has dropped frm 38% in the regular season to 33% in the playoffs.

ecompt · « **Reply #7 on:** May 23, 2009, 12:20:24 PM »

So you're saying Cleveland revamped its offense in the playoffs after posting the NBA's best record in the regular season? That's absurd.

Murffieus · « **Reply #8 on:** May 23, 2009, 06:04:48 PM »

I didn't say Cleveland "revamped" their offense for the playoffs-----what I did say is that Cleveland added Lebron on the wide post for the playoffs-----I had never seen him line up wide during the regular season.

ecompt · « **Reply #9 on:** May 23, 2009, 10:37:48 PM »

that's because he didn't, and he isn't now. Cleveland hasn't added LeBron on the wide post, and Mo Williams is absolutely vital to the team's success.

Murffieus · « **Reply #10 on:** May 24, 2009, 10:35:22 AM »

I beg your pardon-----when I saw the first Cav/Magic game Lebron must have had 7-8 buckets off the wide post (missed one or two attempts is all-----I'd say that's a very good way to use him)----didn't see the second game----plan to watch tonight.

ecompt · « **Reply #11 on:** May 24, 2009, 02:01:26 PM »

Murff, I saw Cleveland play on local TV at least 30 times this season. The offense revolves around LeBron -- he does not play a wide post but comes to meet the ball about 60 percent of the time. The Cavs are so deep they could have won 50 games even if James didn't play a second.

Mayor McCheese · « **Reply #12 on:** May 24, 2009, 03:26:56 PM »

Quote from: ecompt on May 24, 2009, 02:01:26 PM

Murff, I saw Cleveland play on local TV at least 30 times this season. The offense revolves around LeBron -- he does not play a wide post but comes to meet the ball about 60 percent of the time. The Cavs are so deep they could have won 50 games even if James didn't play a second.

Wait... you say without LeBron that Cavs team still wins 50 games? Although I agree they have a good nucleus of players around LeBron, there is no star player on that team when you take LeBron out. Every successful team has at least one franchise player on their team (Kobe with the Lakers, LeBron with the Cavs, Howard on the Magic, Melo with Denver)... I could keep going down the list, even in history. Without LeBron, the Cavs still make the playoffs, however barely, 6-8 seed.

avid1010 · « **Reply #13 on:** May 24, 2009, 04:20:32 PM »

I'm still not sure why you highlight the wide post. Your original post talks about Howard and James, and you say wide post/isolation. Anywhere you can isolate James is good, and anytime you get get the ball to Howard with a foot in the lane is a done deal. I still think I'm alright with sticking James in the wide post and forcing him baseline, same with someone like Wade. If you're going to completely clear out the weak side and let someone like James work, that's not a bad call, but it allows one defender to guard two players, and again you can funnel him baseline to cut of penetration and force a tough pass. If it's as good as you claim, 50%+, every team would do it, every time. It's just not that easy...you are not looking at match-ups, defensive schemes, perimeter shooting, etc.

Mayor McCheese · « **Reply #14 on:** May 24, 2009, 04:43:48 PM »

We also forget to mention we are talking about the best player on the planet. Anything you do for LeBron to get him the ball is the right call.

ecompt · « **Reply #15 on:** May 24, 2009, 04:57:13 PM »

Until LeBron wins a title, the best player on the planet plays his ball in Miami.

chapman · « **Reply #16 on:** May 24, 2009, 07:06:30 PM »

Quote from: ecompt on May 24, 2009, 04:57:13 PM

Until LeBron wins a title, the best player on the planet plays his ball in Miami.

Does Kobe practice down there in the offseason or something?

ecompt · « **Reply #17 on:** May 24, 2009, 07:21:24 PM »

As great as Kobe is, he's not even part of this discussion. DWade this year took a team that would have won 12 games without him and carried them into the playoffs.

avid1010 · « **Reply #18 on:** May 24, 2009, 08:55:58 PM »

I will admit I have a personal hate for Kobe and Labron. I just don't like their demeanor, and while it probably sounds dumb, they always seem so fake to me because they try so hard to act and talk like Jordan did. At the start of the play-offs I wasn't too interested because I figured one of them would win a championship, and my gut instinct was always that they both were too dumb to win a championship. While Orlando and Denver are far from smart teams, if Labron and Kobe were truly special, they would crush those two teams. Put a team around Wade, hope for good health, and you could win a lot of championships.

ecompt · « **Reply #19 on:** May 24, 2009, 09:15:25 PM »

The NBA will get what it wants, though: Kobe and LeBron going for the title. I tried to watch tonight, but gave up when Howard picked up his third foul in about eight minutes of play. The league will reward LeBron for hitting that shot Friday night; that took them off the hook. If he misses that, the league has to see it to the Cavs win four of five.

Murffieus · « **Reply #20 on:** May 25, 2009, 08:07:11 AM »

Quote from: avid1010 on May 21, 2009, 08:34:00 PM

Am I completely missing something or are you advocating clearing out or working the weak side with a James or Howard? I'm not sure anyone's going to argue that.... Wouldn't you consider many of MU's paint touches, especially to Hayward and Mathews as isolations? The NBA is all about mis-matches and isolations, I'm watching LA and Gasol take advantage of "bird man" as we speak on the weak side of Jackson's triangle offense.

Wide post/Isolation can be set up either strong or weakside-----in the first game (Magic/Cavs) Lebron and Howard were working the strong side just wide of the lane one on one and were unstoppable------last night i watched 3/4 of the game and neither team used it at all (go figure)------ what makes isolation just wide of the lane generally so successful is that it gives the best angle to the hoop on the floor (if the defense doubles down the ball gets kicked out for the trey)------Barkely popularized it at Phoenix.

Yes to Buzz's credit----Mathews and Hayward did operate out of the wide post/isolation quite a bit his year----so did mcNeal on occasion-----generally off the weak side.

ecompt · « **Reply #21 on:** May 25, 2009, 09:27:34 AM »

But, Murff, with the way NBA defenses double on star players, wouldn't the wide post be awfully tough to run?

avid1010 · « **Reply #22 on:** May 25, 2009, 11:22:40 AM »

Quote from: ecompt on May 24, 2009, 09:15:25 PM

The NBA will get what it wants, though: Kobe and LeBron going for the title. I tried to watch tonight, but gave up when Howard picked up his third foul in about eight minutes of play. The league will reward LeBron for hitting that shot Friday night; that took them off the hook. If he misses that, the league has to see it to the Cavs win four of five.

You think it's that bad? I was watching, and thinking the same thing. How does a Carmelo/Howard match-up come close to generating the revenue a Kobe/James match-up would. As Howard picked up BS fouls, it began to make me believe the league is that pathetic. I remember feeling that way, along with many others, when the Bucks lost in the semi's to Iverson.

On a side note...I am downright sick of any comparison to Jordan between those two. Look at the teams and players that Jordan beat so consistently, and then you look at the Nuggets and Magic and realize how James and Kobe aren't in the same league, period.

reinko · « **Reply #23 on:** May 25, 2009, 11:55:30 AM »

Avid, I am sorry, but be prepared to be scorched.

1.) It's spelled LeBron, not LaBron, and if you did that to be funny, where's the joke.
2.) LeBron is with out a doubt the best basketball player in the world. It's not even a freaking debate. 99.9% of experts agree with this.
3.) LeBron is as clean as whistle, but you have issues with him? The only piece of dirt on this guy was when he showed up to high school one day in a Hummer.
4.) You claim Kobe was too stupid to win a championship, do you forget the 3 he already has?
5.) You claim LeBron acts fake and too much like MJ? Well, MJ is the best player ever in the NBA, so yeah, I imagine he tries to take certain things from him to try to become better. Jordan was 6'5" 190lbs slasher, insanely good at getting to the hoop, and developed quite possibly one of the greatest jumpers ever, played college ball, won a NCAA championship. LeBron is 6'9", 245 lbs super freak of an athlete, who really can not be defended one on one by anyone in the league. So the comparison I see, is they are both black, wear the #23, and sponsored by Nike.
6.) Please stop with the conspiracy theories. If the NBA was so crooked why would have the boring-ass Spurs won all those titles? You really can't honestly think David Stern is rigging the league. If you 100% believe that to be true, yikes.
7.) Do you have any idea what LeBron did this year? 29, 7, and 7. This playoff series, he is averaging something like 35, 9, 7. That's just stupid #'s. Oh, and BTW, he is 24.
8.) And no it's no crazy to start comparing Jordan and LeBron. I posted this a few weeks back.

Through 6 years in the NBA:

Jordan: 1 MVP, 0 Rings AVG: 31 ppg, 5.5 assists, 6 Rebs
Lebron: 1 MVP TBA Rings Avg: 27.5 ppg, 6.7 assists, 7 rebounds

And LeBron has three years on him since he came straight from HS. And yes, I know there is more to a player than just a few stats, but both are defense stoppers, I give the edge to Jordan, especially during his title run. But right now I give the offensive edge to LeBron since he can play and does play the 1-4 at any one time. LBJ still needs to make that jumper consistent, but Jordan didn't develop his long range shot until a little bit later into his career.

ecompt · « **Reply #24 on:** May 25, 2009, 04:40:32 PM »

The only point I would argue, reinko, is when you say LeBron is clearly the best player because he averaged 29, 7 and 7. DWade averaged 30, 5 and 8, shot a better percentage and had more blocks and steals on a team that had nothing but rookies and dogs. DWade was also the best player on last year's Team USA. LeBron is a great player and will undoubtedly be one of the NBA's top 50 all-timers when he's done, but until he averages 35 in the Finals and single-handedly wins a title, there is room for debate as to who is No. 1.

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Author Topic: Cavaliers Vs Magic (Read 18415 times)