MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: Goose on January 27, 2022, 07:15:48 PM
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Police officer shot on 17th and Wisconsin Ave a short time ago.
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Relax Goose, this chit has always happened on campus. Just like 30 years ago. No biggie, hey?
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3rd cop shot in 3 weeks in milwaukee. i don't know how many nationwide this year already, this is getting down right evil
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Someone pm Lens. Make sure he's safe, hey?
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Police officer shot on 17th and Wisconsin Ave a short time ago.
How did you hear about this? It's not on any of the major Milwaukee news sites yet.
ETA NM. It's on WISN.com
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Told you its a jungle out there. MU has a major problem on its hands, aina?
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My buddy who has a daughter who’s a sophomore just texted me about it too.
Maybe an email went out?
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My buddy who has a daughter who’s a sophomore just texted me about it too.
Maybe an email went out?
Notice sent out to students with the news that there is no current threat.
Suspects already in custody.
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Oh, sew much ta due 'bout nothin', hey?
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shooting at or near 21st or 25th and st paul
police presence from 17th wisconsin to clybourn on up
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shooting at or near 21st or 25th and st paul
police presence from 17th wisconsin to clybourn on up
So it wasn’t “on-campus” like the title of the topic says.
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Now I’m hearing the shooting was at 21st and St. Paul then the guy stole the cop car and ditched it at 17th and Wisconsin.
Not sure if it’s true, just reporting what I’m being told
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Fluff
Wisn had 17th and Wisconsin on the breaking news 20 minutes ago and was live at 19th on Wisconsin. This shooting makes me sick to my stomach and you have to act like an ass. There was no intent to mislead.
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So it wasn’t “on-campus” like the title of the topic says.
WISN Channel 12's Derrick Rose reported 17th and Wisconsin.
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They changed the headline since I saw it a few minutes ago.
https://www.wisn.com/article/sources-officer-shot-near-17th-and-wisconsin-milwaukee/38918617#
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So it wasn’t “on-campus” like the title of the topic says.
Character revealed. What an ass.
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Fluff
Wisn had 17th and Wisconsin on the breaking news 20 minutes ago and was live at 19th on Wisconsin. This shooting makes me sick to my stomach and you have to act like an ass. There was no intent to mislead.
I wasn’t meaning to accuse you of misleading. My apologies.
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Character revealed. What an ass.
I was posting a clarification for accuracy and apologized to Goose. So calm the f*ck down ok?
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Where are all these good guys with guns I keep hearing about?
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Fluff
Sorry if I do not believe you were not once again trying to have your gotcha moment. Fortunately I do not care what you think about my post.
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Goose, perhaps you can amend the title of this thread for accuracy.
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I was posting a clarification for accuracy and apologized to Goose. So calm the f*ck down ok?
Internet tough guy. You put the ass in class, Jonny Boy.
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Fluff
Sorry if I do not believe you were not once again trying to have your gotcha moment. Fortunately I do not care what you think about my post.
I apologized because I wasn’t clear with my words. If you choose not to believe me, well, then I know who *I* think the ass is…
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Chick
Correction made.
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Fluff
Sorry if I do not believe you were not once again trying to have your gotcha moment. Fortunately I do not care what you think about my post.
Goose,
You posted inaccurate information. I'm sure it was unintentional, but it is what it is. My guess is you were eager to push the Geriatric Scoop storyline that the Marquette campus is, as one here wrote so eloquently, a "jungle."
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Internet tough guy. You put the ass in class, Jonny Boy.
The guy who calls someone an ass then calls that same someone an “internet tough guy.” 🙄🙄🙄
Anyway try to be less obsessed with me and stick to the topic ok?
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Maybe it’s just me, but a cop being shot anywhere sucks. 3 cops being shot in a weeek sucks even more
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Chick
Correction made.
that ought to cover it, or maybe upper midwest would keep the "protectionists" satisfied
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The guy who calls someone an ass then calls that same someone an “internet tough guy.” 🙄🙄🙄
Anyway try to be less obsessed with me and stick to the topic ok?
but you, as usual, tend to insert yourself into the topics cuz you always seem to know best
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Fluff
We all have our scoop persona and need to live or own up to that. I am the first to admit I have mine and it jades folks views on my posts, which is understandable. To wrap it up, I am very concerned about the safety of the MU campus in general and do not think it is something to make light of by anyone.
Pakuni
I actually am very concerned about the city I love. My son, his wife and daughter and live a block away from where a cop was shot in Third Ward two weeks ago and crime is a real thing in our city.
I will add, how often do you see me post on nonbasketball threads? Possibly the stock market, golf or economy threads and occasional comment on other topics. I have zero agenda on scoop other than talking MU basketball.
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Fluff
We all have our scoop persona and need to live or own up to that. I am the first to admit I have mine and it jades folks views on my posts, which is understandable. To wrap it up, I am very concerned about the safety of the MU campus in general and do not think it is something to make light of by anyone.
Pakuni
I actually am very concerned about the city I love. My son, his wife and daughter and live a block away from where a cop was shot in Third Ward two weeks ago and crime is a real thing in our city.
I will add, how often do you see me post on nonbasketball threads? Possibly the stock market, golf or economy threads and occasional comment on other topics. I have zero agenda on scoop other than talking MU basketball.
It’s all good Goose. I share your concerns.
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Want to decrease crime? Increase economic conditions for all, but especially the poor/lower class
There is also a controversial hypothesis about decrease in crime and access to abortions
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Want to decrease crime? Increase economic conditions for all, but especially the poor/lower class
There is also a controversial hypothesis about decrease in crime and access to abortions
You are on a roll today.
Can't commit crimes if your mother kills you is a great theory.
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The guy who calls someone an ass then calls that same someone an “internet tough guy.” 🙄🙄🙄
Anyway try to be less obsessed with me and stick to the topic ok?
Sorry to hurt your feelings, jonny.
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but you, as usual, tend to insert yourself into the topics cuz you always seem to know best
Sultan Explains It All.
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Want to decrease crime? Increase economic conditions for all, but especially the poor/lower class
There is also a controversial hypothesis about decrease in crime and access to abortions
God helps those who help themselves, aina?
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God helps those who help themselves, aina?
What book of the Bible is that from again?
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You are on a roll today.
Can't commit crimes if your mother kills you is a great theory.
https://law.stanford.edu/publications/the-impact-of-legalized-abortion-on-crime-over-the-last-two-decades/
Maybe educate yourself?
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God helps those who help themselves, aina?
Poor people aren't trying to help themselves or God ignores them - which viewpoint do you subscribe to?
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Want to decrease crime? Increase economic conditions for all, but especially the poor/lower class
There is also a controversial hypothesis about decrease in crime and access to abortions
or ya could just not enforce any laws at all. nothing to see here
https://nypost.com/2022/01/27/nyc-teen-rapper-charged-with-shooting-nypd-cop-getting-out-on-bond/
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or ya could just not enforce any laws at all. nothing to see here
https://nypost.com/2022/01/27/nyc-teen-rapper-charged-with-shooting-nypd-cop-getting-out-on-bond/
Not enforcing laws? Sure seems like he's been arrested and charged
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Not enforcing laws? Sure seems like he's been arrested and charged
But he found a scary black guy so it’s all good.
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Not enforcing laws? Sure seems like he's been arrested and charged
the dude has been caught carrying ILLEGAL guns TWICE and shooting a cop. you feel safe with this dude out on the streets. my bet is, he might have to kill someone before he's locked up for any amount of time. heaven forbid a cop shoots him, then all hell will break out
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But he found a scary black guy so it’s all good.
no, just a scary guy is good enough for me. i don't give a chit what color he is jackwagon
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no, just a scary guy is good enough for me. i don't give a chit what color he is jackwagon
Sure, Jan
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https://law.stanford.edu/publications/the-impact-of-legalized-abortion-on-crime-over-the-last-two-decades/
Maybe educate yourself?
I'll wait for your next YouTube find. 🤡
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There is also a controversial hypothesis about decrease in crime and access to abortions
Nothing new. A whole lot of “good people” (President Woodrow Wilson, Planned Parenthood founder Margret Sanger, etc.) we’re proponents of eugenics, an attempt (through abortion and sterilization) to improve society by stopping “undesirables” from procreating.
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The O/U on the lock of this thread has been set at 12:01PM CST
Feel free to move this post to the gambling thread.
Mods, please understand if you gamble on this, no winnings will be awarded
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Maybe it’s just me, but a cop being shot anywhere sucks. 3 cops being shot in a weeek sucks even more
It's too bad we all can't at least agree about this, hey?
IBTL.
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Nothing new. A whole lot of “good people” (President Woodrow Wilson, Planned Parenthood founder Margret Sanger, etc.) we’re proponents of eugenics, an attempt (through abortion and sterilization) to improve society by stopping “undesirables” from procreating.
if people would find out the real story about maggie, they would be and should be shocked to the core. she was a true RACIST if there ever is/was one. i'll leave it up to those to do their own homework because a discussion here would lead to the predictable lockdown
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if people would find out the real story about maggie, they would be and should be shocked to the core. she was a true RACIST if there ever is/was one. i'll leave it up to those to do their own homework because a discussion here would lead to the predictable lockdown
I donate to planned parenthood twice a year
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I donate to planned parenthood twice a year
i donate to my local food pantry multiple times per year
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no, just a scary guy is good enough for me. i don't give a chit what color he is jackwagon
Unfortunately not true. Sad.
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Nothing new. A whole lot of “good people” (President Woodrow Wilson, Planned Parenthood founder Margret Sanger, etc.) we’re proponents of eugenics, an attempt (through abortion and sterilization) to improve society by stopping “undesirables” from procreating.
To be fair people from the past were usually horrible. (One of the people who is accredited with popularizing and mainstreaming adoption used to steal babies from people she deemed undesirable) If you're going to use horrible founders as a reason to be against something you should basically be sitting in a dark room you built yourself wearing nothing but handmade clothes. It's ok to admit you are picking and choosing but should probably add that line so people don't call it hypocritical.
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Sum y'all just like ta piss in da champagne fore da sake of pissin'. Y'all no hoo ewe are, aina?
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Now back to the topic.
We geriatric Scoopers don't think of campus as a jungle. We see it as it is -- a wonderful university surrounded by neighborhoods with problems and concerns. I went to school there in the mid-to-late 1970s and wouldn't trade the experience, including the neighborhood, for anything.
Secondly, when someone is brazen enough to fire on and wound a police officer, what makes you think he or she is any less willing to fire on an innocent, potentially unarmed civilian?
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We geriatric Scoopers don't think of campus as a jungle. We see it as it is -- a wonderful university surrounded by neighborhoods with problems and concerns. I went to school there in the mid-to-late 1970s and wouldn't trade the experience, including the neighborhood, for anything.
You need to talk to a few of your fellow geriatric Scoopers who have tried to characterize the campus as a battle zone filled with violent crime. The fact that enrollment has fallen at universities and colleges across the nation due to COVID-19 hasn't stopped some from claiming that crime is what's keeping parents from sending their kids to Marquette. This despite the fact that Marquette had some of its highest enrollment totals in the years preceding the pandemic, including its all-time high for the Class of 2022.
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Oh, you mean like a student? The 70's were 50 years ago, things change. This isn't your father's neighborhood anymore, hey?
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You need to talk to a few of your fellow geriatric Scoopers who have tried to characterize the campus as a battle zone filled with violent crime. The fact that enrollment has fallen at universities and colleges across the nation due to COVID-19 hasn't stopped some from claiming that crime is what's keeping parents from sending their kids to Marquette. This despite the fact that Marquette had some of its highest enrollment totals in the years preceding the pandemic, including its all-time high for the Class of 2022.
Enrollment, schmollment. MU is one serious incident away from real enrollment issues, hey?
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Enrollment, schmollment. MU is one serious incident away from real enrollment issues, hey?
So you say.
The facts haven't backed up anything you've claimed so far, but maybe it'll happen if you root hard enough for it. Then you'll be able to say "Eye told ewe sew" and give the university a green weinie.
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It's too bad we all can't at least agree about this, hey?
IBTL.
Not when there are political points to be made and old scores to settle.
Priorities, aina?
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I donate to planned parenthood twice a year
Does going to PP for the morning after pill back in college count as donating?
i donate to my local food pantry multiple times per year
Animal rescue organizations for me, along with food pantries.
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Not when there are political points to be made and old scores to settle.
Priorities, aina?
Good pernt. ;)
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Fortunately, the officer was released from the hospital this morning.
Lefties may resume their cop bashing.
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(https://s.abcnews.com/images/US/jan6-2-gty-rc-210803_1628002190102_hpMain_16x9_992.jpg)
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(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2020/05/30/PSAL/c7a02025-a276-4ba2-bd96-ca4612698300-OREUG-Eugene_fire_1.jpg?width=660&height=547&fit=crop&format=pjpg&auto=webp[/shadow])
just as relevant to the conversation as MU82's.
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Fortunately, the officer was released from the hospital this morning.
Lefties may resume their cop bashing.
In reality, it is the Left wants Covid mandates for police to protect them from the biggest killer of cops in America; the right not only doesn't care if cops are vaccinated, they are fighting in court for the right of police to be infected.
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(https://s.abcnews.com/images/US/jan6-2-gty-rc-210803_1628002190102_hpMain_16x9_992.jpg)
That happened in Wisconsin? I must have missed that story. Was that on MSNBC, or CNN?
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That happened in Wisconsin? I must have missed that story. Was that on MSNBC, or CNN?
I think that was more in response to Ziggys post that only the left was cop bashing. When you see literal cop bashing by the right in that photo.
I don't think it was meant to imply it was in WI
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I think that was more in response to Ziggys post that only the left was cop bashing. When you see literal cop bashing by the right in that photo.
I don't think it was meant to imply it was in WI
he knows all that...just trying to deflect from an uncomfortable truth.
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he knows all that...just trying to deflect from an uncomfortable truth.
You're half right. You're right that I know all that. You're not right on the remainder though, as I was just pointing out the absurdity of the post as 82's post had nothing to do with the cop getting shot in Wisconsin.
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That happened in Wisconsin? I must have missed that story. Was that on MSNBC, or CNN?
FBI Operatives ...
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I'll wait for your next YouTube find. 🤡
Classic closed-minded boomer mentality. Love it.
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hero police officer is released from hospital. while the suspect is being treated for his injuries. this is another example of an incident that should not have put this cop in danger from this repeat offender-
"The 22-year-old has three open felony cases from 2020 and was out on bond in each, but had active bench warrant from October 2021 for court no-shows in each case. In the latest two cases, Rodthong was charged with bail jumping."
https://www.fox6now.com/news/suspect-milwaukee-officer-shooting-police-booking-logs
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Classic closed-minded boomer mentality. Love it.
I'm no boomer, son.
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--
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Now back to the topic.
We geriatric Scoopers don't think of campus as a jungle. We see it as it is -- a wonderful university surrounded by neighborhoods with problems and concerns. I went to school there in the mid-to-late 1970s and wouldn't trade the experience, including the neighborhood, for anything.
Secondly, when someone is brazen enough to fire on and wound a police officer, what makes you think he or she is any less willing to fire on an innocent, potentially unarmed civilian?
I could have gone without the homeless shelter in the middle of the off-campus housing. We also had one shooting when some nonstudents were denied entry into a party. Kid got shot in the face, but survived. It wasn't a huge impact, but I think the experience would be better if the surrounding neighborhood wasn't such a craphole.
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I could have gone without the homeless shelter in the middle of the off-campus housing. We also had one shooting when some nonstudents were denied entry into a party. Kid got shot in the face, but survived. It wasn't a huge impact, but I think the experience would be better if the surrounding neighborhood wasn't such a craphole.
You could have just gone somewhere 'safer'.
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You could have just gone somewhere 'safer'.
I could have won the lottery as well. Just need that time machine.
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I could have won the lottery as well. Just need that time machine.
The implication is that you didn't choose to go to Marquette. The decision to attend was thrust upon you by fate?
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The implication is that you didn't choose to go to Marquette. The decision to attend was thrust upon you by fate?
Your implication is that safety was the number one factor in my choosing a school. I said it wasn't a huge impact, but it would have been better if the surrounding neighborhood wasn't such a craphole. Do you disagree with that? Would it be worse at Marquette if the surroundings improved? Is the success of Marquette dependent on some unseen force draining away the quality of the neighboring communities?
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Your implication is that safety was the number one factor in my choosing a school. I said it wasn't a huge impact, but it would have been better if the surrounding neighborhood wasn't such a craphole. Do you disagree with that? Would it be worse at Marquette if the surroundings improved? Is the success of Marquette dependent on some unseen force draining away the quality of the neighboring communities?
Would Marquette be better off if it were in a neighborhood like Mount Mary's or Cardinal Stritch's? Or would the positive things that make Marquette what it is be washed away by suburban blandness?
I actually think Marquette's location is a positive and not a negative.
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Would Marquette be better off if it were in a neighborhood like Mount Mary's or Cardinal Stritch's? Or would the positive things that make Marquette what it is be washed away by suburban blandness?
I actually think Marquette's location is a positive and not a negative.
I'm not scoring it as a 1 or a 0. Lots of positives, but the homeless shelter and the surrounding neighborhood are not.
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Your implication is that safety was the number one factor in my choosing a school. I said it wasn't a huge impact, but it would have been better if the surrounding neighborhood wasn't such a craphole. Do you disagree with that? Would it be worse at Marquette if the surroundings improved? Is the success of Marquette dependent on some unseen force draining away the quality of the neighboring communities?
The neighborhood was fine when I was in school, and it has only improved since then.
Part of the experience is to not go to college in a lily white college town. If you didn't want that, or didn't know that going in, then why did you attend?
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I'm not scoring it as a 1 or a 0. Lots of positives, but the homeless shelter and the surrounding neighborhood are not.
In the last 14 years I have closely followed the crime stats at Marquette (due to my own kids considering/attending Marquette), and I have not heard of a single incident of violent crime related to the homeless shelter.
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Would Marquette be better off if it were in a neighborhood like Mount Mary's or Cardinal Stritch's? Or would the positive things that make Marquette what it is be washed away by suburban blandness?
I actually think Marquette's location is a positive and not a negative.
Sure, MU missed the boat when Concordia moved from 33rd and State to The Quon. Turns out Concordia is thrivin'. Had Marquette moved to da burbs, we woodant need ta have dis discussion. But, of course, dat's knot da Jesuit way, aina?
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Sure, MU missed the boat when Concordia moved from 33rd and State to The Quon. Turns out Concordia is thrivin'. Had Marquette moved to da burbs, we woodant need ta have dis discussion. But, of course, dat's knot da Jesuit way, aina?
Concordia is thriving because they have been a pioneer in program development and delivery.
Marquette moving to Mequon would have been terrible. And you’re right that’s not the Jesuit way.
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It is not the Jesuit way. It really isn't the Catholic way.
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In the last 14 years I have closely followed the crime stats at Marquette (due to my own kids considering/attending Marquette), and I have not heard of a single incident of violent crime related to the homeless shelter.
Thanks for that, chick.
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In the last 14 years I have closely followed the crime stats at Marquette (due to my own kids considering/attending Marquette), and I have not heard of a single incident of violent crime related to the homeless shelter.
Oh sure I don't doubt that. The homeless shelter just brings a bunch of bums begging for money and being generally shabby. One of my roommates caught a couple homless dudes performing sexual acts on one another right across the street from our house one morning haha. It'd be better without all that nonsense going on near campus.
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Oh sure I don't doubt that. The homeless shelter just brings a bunch of bums begging for money and being generally shabby. One of my roommates caught a couple homless dudes performing sexual acts on one another right across the street from our house one morning haha. It'd be better without all that nonsense going on near campus.
Walking back from Angelo's to Tower my sophomore year, I saw two fellow Marquette students going at it in public, right in the field next to McCormick. Not only weren't the young man and woman homeless, they probably were from wealthy families. Go figure!
Add in the number of times all of us saw rich, white Marquette students taking whizzes in public, and that's a lot of "nonsense going on near campus."
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Eye once saw a trans cocker spaniel and a straight toy poodle makin' bacon near Mashuda. Nearly transferred to Liberty U, butt der basketball teem sucked donkey balls, hey?
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Eye once saw a trans cocker spaniel and a straight toy poodle makin' bacon near Mashuda. Nearly transferred to Liberty U, butt der basketball teem sucked donkey balls, hey?
I can see you and Falwell Jr partying together.
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Oh sure I don't doubt that. The homeless shelter just brings a bunch of bums begging for money and being generally shabby. One of my roommates caught a couple homless dudes performing sexual acts on one another right across the street from our house one morning haha. It'd be better without all that nonsense going on near campus.
I mean why does it matter? Being in an urban setting has pluses and minuses.
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That, and crime is everywhere.
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That, and crime is everywhere.
Exactly. When I see Marquette parents losing their sh*t over crime near campus, I remind them that Northern Illinois has had both a mass shooting and a serial killer of coeds in the last decade or so, and that is a school that is literally in the middle of a cornfield.
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Oh, you mean like a student? The 70's were 50 years ago, things change. This isn't your father's neighborhood anymore, hey?
There were shootings around campus and a stabbing at the YMCA lobby when it was part of MU housing, all back in '79-'83. But because I was raised in a fairly large city with the same problems I didn't feel threatened. Right now the problem is worldwide. Actually murders here were almost double of what they're now 20 years ago. But people are panicking because last year murders went up 20% from previous year.
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There were shootings around campus and a stabbing at the YMCA lobby when it was part of MU housing, all back in '79-'83. But because I was raised in a fairly large city with the same problems I didn't feel threatened. Right now the problem is worldwide. Actually murders here were almost double of what they're now 20 years ago. But people are panicking because last year murders went up 20% from previous year.
My senior year, there was a girl who was raped by a rando in her dorm room during fall move-in. A few years later, a kid was straight-up murdered on campus.
Anyone who thinks things are worse now is delusional
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My senior year, there was a girl who was raped by a rando in her dorm room during fall move-in. A few years later, a kid was straight-up murdered on campus.
Anyone who thinks things are worse now is delusional
Yep. Easily manipulated people have been revved up in a panic. Wonder why?
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According to some, we should relish the crime, and perhaps encourage it. Part of the experience, eh?
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According to some, we should relish the crime, and perhaps encourage it. Part of the experience, eh?
Said zero Scoopers. But you knew that.
According to some, Marquette is a violent, crime-infested battle zone that is keeping enrollment numbers down (despite evidence to the contrary). That's actually a real narrative really being pushed by real Scoopers. But you knew that, too.
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According to some, we should relish the crime, and perhaps encourage it. Part of the experience, eh?
Nope, but the perception that everything is much worse, not really true, things have gone a bit worse the past couple of years compared to previous, a cycle, but in the age of immediate information all seems worse. Heck back then if MU wasn't ranked during Christmas break it would take over 24 hrs to find out the score, obviously I wasn't anywhere near WI.
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According to some, we should relish the crime, and perhaps encourage it. Part of the experience, eh?
No one has said that.
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The same people who claim that a virus that has killed nearly 900,000 Americans and over 5.5 million people world wide in under 2 years is just fear mongering for political purposes are the ones scared to go into Milwaukee/onto campus because of crime. Go figure.
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According to some, we should relish the crime, and perhaps encourage it. Part of the experience, eh?
According to the some, we should put up a wall around campus and stare into the past with rose tinted glasses. Part of getting old, eh?
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The same people who claim that a virus that has killed nearly 900,000 Americans and over 5.5 million people world wide in under 2 years is just fear mongering for political purposes are the ones scared to go into Milwaukee/onto campus because of crime. Go figure.
The world is a scary place for former students. They're dying by the hundreds to gun crime on campus all the way in Mequon, East Troy, Madison, etc.
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According to the some, we should put up a wall around campus and stare into the past with rose tinted glasses. Part of getting old, eh?
*or move it to Mequon like some brainiac suggested yesterday
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https://www.slowboring.com/p/all-kinds-of-bad-behavior-is-on-the
Thought this was an interesting read about how the rise is violence is a sign of a larger issues of self-destructive and anti-social behavior that started at the beginning of the pandemic. Not only are shootings up, but drug overdoses, car deaths, school behavior issues, etc. The conclusion:
"The true toll of the pandemic, in other words, goes well beyond the official death toll of the virus. American society is actually fraying at the seams in some pretty significant ways. And this to me is fundamentally part of the argument for federal leadership in setting some terms around a “new normal” of endemic SARS-Cov-2 rather than continually shifting the terms of a national state of emergency. Respiratory viruses (mostly flu but also some RSV and for the very elderly even some common cold) killed non-trivial numbers of people before the pandemic, and it’s truly tragic that we’re going to be seeing more deaths than that going forward. But what we didn’t have pre-covid was a sense of all these spillovers and disruptions into other areas of life. With vaccines in hand, we really need to be trying to address the full range of harms that have accrued over the past two years."
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With vaccines in hand, we really need to be trying to address the full range of harms that have accrued over the past two years."
nm sorry - realized my post would have been better on the covid board
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Want to decrease crime? Increase economic conditions for all, but especially the poor/lower class
There is also a controversial hypothesis about decrease in crime and access to abortions
you should run for DA in Portland or San Francisco. "Was the criminal poor or from a marginalized community? Released, no bail. The rich small business owner should just suck it up and appreciate her privilege and give back a little."
I'm sure the dude who has been arrested and released 21 times for assaulting Asians and Pacific Islanders was only doing it because he was poor.
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Just another day in paradise, hey?
The Marquette University Police Department is investigating the incident below. If you have more information, please contact MUPD immediately at (414) 288-6800.
Initial Incident Report
Incident type: Shots fired
Incident location: 21st and Clybourn
Approximate time: 3:58 p.m.
Victims: One female Marquette student
Physical injuries: No physical injuries were reported.
At approximately 3:58 p.m., MUPD responded to a report of shots fired near 21st Street and Clybourn Street. A suspect fired shots from a white sedan at a vehicle driven by a student in an apparent road rage incident. No individuals or vehicles were struck by the gunfire. The university is providing support services to the student. No physical injuries were reported. Milwaukee Police Department is investigating. There is no active threat to campus.
This update is available online.
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well come on! gotta give credit for the 4 day "cease fire" carry-on...
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I'm sure your law enforcement counterparts would be thrilled to know your views on crime and policing.
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I'm sure your law enforcement counterparts would be thrilled to know your views on crime and policing.
You should report him to his employer, nerd.
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I'm sure your law enforcement counterparts would be thrilled to know your views on crime and policing.
We chat about it frequently as they come into the station on a daily basis. As well as at joint events. You might be surprised to learn theirs. Get out more.
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Simple solution. Everyone get a gun, hey?
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Simple solution. Everyone get a gun, hey?
We're all good guys with a gun till someone's driving obnoxiously, then we turn into someone who shouldn't have had a gun in the first place.
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Yeah, pretty sure the MU coed deserved to be shot at for her pussay driving by these fine, upstanding ass holes.
If looks like an ass hole and smells like an ass hole. Its an ass hole, gun or no gun, aina?
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The problem with the "good guy with gun" mantra is an inability to realize that many of the guns end up with bad guys. Which just makes the violence worse. And the problem with these discussions is that they are always binary. But it's not just guns that are the problem, and it's not just bad people that are the problem. Both need to be dealt with.
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Simple solution. Everyone get a gun, hey?
We have tried that in Chicago. Worked out well, huh?
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Just another day in paradise, hey?
The Marquette University Police Department is investigating the incident below. If you have more information, please contact MUPD immediately at (414) 288-6800.
Initial Incident Report
Incident type: Shots fired
Incident location: 21st and Clybourn
Approximate time: 3:58 p.m.
Victims: One female Marquette student
Physical injuries: No physical injuries were reported.
At approximately 3:58 p.m., MUPD responded to a report of shots fired near 21st Street and Clybourn Street. A suspect fired shots from a white sedan at a vehicle driven by a student in an apparent road rage incident. No individuals or vehicles were struck by the gunfire. The university is providing support services to the student. No physical injuries were reported. Milwaukee Police Department is investigating. There is no active threat to campus.
This update is available online.
That would never happen in Mequon.
https://www.jsonline.com/story/communities/northshore/crime/police-reports/2019/08/06/road-rage-oak-creek-man-accused-pointing-gun-driver-mequon/1936865001/ (https://www.jsonline.com/story/communities/northshore/crime/police-reports/2019/08/06/road-rage-oak-creek-man-accused-pointing-gun-driver-mequon/1936865001/)
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The problem with the "good guy with gun" mantra is an inability to realize that many of the guns end up with bad guys. Which just makes the violence worse. And the problem with these discussions is that they are always binary. But it's not just guns that are the problem, and it's not just bad people that are the problem. Both need to be dealt with.
Also, plenty of "good guys" can easily turn into bad guys when their wife dumps them, or they get kicked out of a bar, or their neighbor's dog craps on their front yard one too many times, or they get cut off in traffic, or someone insults them on social media, and so on and so on.
And, of course, you're right that the problem isn't binary. Guns, poverty, drugs, mental illness, lack of family support/structure, lack of education, etc. all have a hand. And very few people want to deal with any of them in any serious way.
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Yeah, pretty sure the MU coed deserved to be shot at for her pussay driving by these fine, upstanding ass holes.
If looks like an ass hole and smells like an ass hole. Its an ass hole, gun or no gun, aina?
I agree, I'm when he got in the car he was just a guy who wanted to protect his property that was having a bad day.
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I agree, I'm when he got in the car he was just a guy who wanted to protect his property that was having a bad day.
Maybe the shooter was standing his ground.
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That would never happen in Mequon.
https://www.jsonline.com/story/communities/northshore/crime/police-reports/2019/08/06/road-rage-oak-creek-man-accused-pointing-gun-driver-mequon/1936865001/ (https://www.jsonline.com/story/communities/northshore/crime/police-reports/2019/08/06/road-rage-oak-creek-man-accused-pointing-gun-driver-mequon/1936865001/)
4ever trying to see how many times he can look like a fool this week
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Bridgewater, Va., is a bucolic, Shenandoah Valley town of 6,000.
Today, there was a shooting on the campus of tiny Bridgewater College, and two officers are dead. The suspect is in custody.
https://apnews.com/article/shootings-virginia-a5052ddabb7dfa2667d4381c43b6ec06
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Bridgewater, Va., is a bucolic, Shenandoah Valley town of 6,000.
Today, there was a shooting on the campus of tiny Bridgewater College, and two officers are dead. The suspect is in custody.
https://apnews.com/article/shootings-virginia-a5052ddabb7dfa2667d4381c43b6ec06
Huh.
Weird that in a country where 42% of the adult population fetishizes a gun as an intimate partner in their lives shootings could happen literally anywhere and everywhere within our border.
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Huh.
Weird that in a country where 42% of the adult population fetishizes a gun as an intimate partner in their lives shootings could happen literally anywhere and everywhere within our border.
Yeah, the fearmongers who'd have us believe Marquette sits in a battle zone apparently don't realize that gun-loving, white country bumpkins can and do commit violent crimes from from Bumblefork and Podunk.
We all wish there were zero crime near the Marquette campus. That's unrealistic. Despite the fact that Marquette is a city campus -- or maybe because of it -- the school set enrollment records before the pandemic.
Regardless, I grieve for the families of the officers who lost their lives trying to protect Bridgewater College from a violent man who had an arsenal of easily acquired weapons at his disposal.
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And sometimes, good guys with guns shoot firefighters. See: Stockton.
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And sometimes, good guys with guns shoot firefighters. See: Stockton.
BuT hE sHoT sOmEoNe So HeS nOt A gOoD gUy ::)
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A string of bomb threats to HBCUs.
https://apnews.com/article/education-florida-race-and-ethnicity-bomb-threats-daytona-beach-1643a14133f9a395502ea336892ec8f3
I blame the war zone that is the Marquette campus.
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The Marquette University Police Department is investigating the incident below. If you have more information, please contact MUPD immediately at (414) 288-6800.
Initial Incident Report
Incident type: Shots fired
Incident location: 2100 and 2200 block of Kilbourn
Approximate time: 7:56 a.m.
Victims: N/A
Physical injuries: N/A
At approximately 7:56 a.m., MUPD responded to a report of shots fired between the 2100 and 2200 block of Kilbourn. No physical injuries were reported. MUPD is assisting Milwaukee Police in this investigation. There is no active threat to campus.
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So I guess this is what this thread will be until the mods lock it.
Dr. Doom will post every call to Milwaukee police even when "There is no active threat to campus."
And realistic people who know that crime happens everywhere will post actual violence happening on campuses (and off campuses) everywhere, including even those in tiny Virginia towns that are terrorized by hillbilly cop-killers.
Perfect!
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So I guess this is what this thread will be until the mods lock it.
Dr. Doom will post every call to Milwaukee police even when "There is no active threat to campus."
And realistic people who know that crime happens everywhere will post actual violence happening on campuses (and off campuses) everywhere, including even those in tiny Virginia towns that are terrorized by hillbilly cop-killers.
Perfect!
I was downtown Tuesday evening and wasn’t shot. I would like a refund
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Probably students getting off a couple of rounds before class to celebrate a victory. Or maybe breaking up some icicles.
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So I guess this is what this thread will be until the mods lock it.
Dr. Doom will post every call to Milwaukee police even when "There is no active threat to campus."
And realistic people who know that crime happens everywhere will post actual violence happening on campuses (and off campuses) everywhere, including even those in tiny Virginia towns that are terrorized by hillbilly cop-killers.
Perfect!
Don’t people like him celebrate every shot fired as an affirmation of their constitutional rights?
Probably just a good person with a gun letting criminals know they are not welcome.
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Maybe they were shooting at COVID.
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Are the North Shore Nancys on this site just sitting around listening to the police scanner all day?
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Sounds to me like he is advocating for gun control and investment in our inner cities.
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Maybe they were shooting at COVID.
Please don't give the anti-vaxxers any more ideas for their next "cure".
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I was downtown Tuesday evening and wasn’t shot.
Me neither. Matter of fact, I’ve NEVER been shot. F#ck gun control, a’ina?
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Me neither. Matter of fact, I’ve NEVER been shot. F#ck gun control, a’ina?
I’m a gun owner
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I’m a gun owner
I don’t, but I don’t live in a war zone.
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I don’t, but I don’t live in a war zone.
What a ridiculous amount of hyperbole. Do you basically have agoraphobia?
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I don’t, but I don’t live in a war zone.
Neither do I. I live in Milwaukee
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What a ridiculous amount of hyperbole. Do you basically have agoraphobia?
Galway
Back and forth humor between Rico and me. Relax.
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Galway
Back and forth humor between Rico and me. Relax.
My bad been a long day of travel/work and gun debates always get me riled up.
I'll just sip margs on the beach and not Superbar this weekend
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Guns are fun!
And like anything fun, the more the merrier!!
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Wish wee had moore gun kontrol laws sew da thugs couldant get der hands on 'em, hey?
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Wish wee had moore gun kontrol laws sew da thugs couldant get der hands on 'em, hey?
I know you think you're being clever here, but this is exactly correct.
Our patchwork system of gun control largely ensures that anyone has easy access to a firearm.
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I know you think you're being clever here, but this is exactly correct.
Our patchwork system of gun control largely ensures that anyone has easy access to a firearm.
Stop it, Pak.
This country will not be safe until every man, woman and child over the age of 3 has at least a dozen guns. Then, you just watch how safe the Marquette campus and everywhere else will be!
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Stop it, Pak.
This country will not be safe until every man, woman and child over the age of 3 has at least a dozen guns. Then, you just watch how safe the Marquette campus and everywhere else will be!
I buy my kids a handgun or rifle every birthday until they turn 12.
It’s their god given right.
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I buy my kids a handgun or rifle every birthday until they turn 12.
It’s their god given right.
The only thing that can stop a bad kid with a gun is a good kid with a gun.
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I buy my kids a handgun or rifle every birthday until they turn 12.
It’s their god given right.
Did not end up well in Oxford, MI.
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all the sarcasm about "guns are bad" if any of you cared to take the time to research how many guns have saved countless lives, you might be humbled.
true story, my gun (legal conceal carry) might have saved my life and that of a few others without even firing a shot. by merely badging my gun, it stopped a real potential problem. the attackers were later apprehended without incident
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all the sarcasm about "guns are bad" if any of you cared to take the time to research how many guns have saved countless lives, you might be humbled.
true story, my gun (legal conceal carry) might have saved my life and that of a few others without even firing a shot. by merely badging my gun, it stopped a real potential problem. the attackers were later apprehended without incident
Dozens and dozens of toddlers shoot people with their families' guns over the last 3 years.
Who says today's toddlers aren't bad-ass!
But seriously ... the families of those two police officers who died on the small college campus in Virginia are sure glad the hillbilly gun-lover was able to build an arsenal of guns.
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all the sarcasm about "guns are bad" if any of you cared to take the time to research how many guns have saved countless lives, you might be humbled.
true story, my gun (legal conceal carry) might have saved my life and that of a few others without even firing a shot. by merely badging my gun, it stopped a real potential problem. the attackers were later apprehended without incident
Wanna bet the number they kill is greater?
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Wanna bet the number they kill is greater?
Wanna bet the number killed with guns is by felons in possession of a gun is greater than by law abiding citizens.
Enforce the laws we have
Very difficult to calculate how many lives they have saved.
how many shots weren’t taken because of the presence of another gun(s)
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So I won the bet?
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all the sarcasm about "guns are bad" if any of you cared to take the time to research how many guns have saved countless lives, you might be humbled.
true story, my gun (legal conceal carry) might have saved my life and that of a few others without even firing a shot. by merely badging my gun, it stopped a real potential problem. the attackers were later apprehended without incident
I use my gun to move foursomes in front of me out of the way. I love guns
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Sew much fore we're all inn dis together, hey?
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I think we can all agree slow play on the golf course is a problem.
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I think we can all agree slow play on the golf course is a problem.
And guns are the solution.
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Sew much fore we're all inn dis together, hey?
...and "be the difference"
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...and "be the difference"
Thanks for being the difference all lives matter
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I appreciate the difference you have made in my life.
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I use my gun to move foursomes in front of me out of the way. I love guns
That's just you flexing, though. No hardware required.
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Wanna bet the number killed with guns is by felons in possession of a gun is greater than by law abiding citizens.
Enforce the laws we have
Very difficult to calculate how many lives they have saved.
how many shots weren’t taken because of the presence of another gun(s)
What laws are we not enforcing exactly?
The proliferation of guns is clearly a problem. Felons can get guns more easily since there are so many of them around.
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What laws are we not enforcing exactly?
The proliferation of guns is clearly a problem. Felons can get guns more easily since there are so many of them around.
Felons with hand guns for starters. That one alone according to the anti gun crowd should get the chair
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Felons with hand guns for starters. That one alone according to the anti gun crowd should get the chair
When felons are caught with handguns they are arrested, tried and usually convicted.
When the Kyle Rittenhouses and George Zimmermans kill people with guns they are celebrated by some as heroes.
Stand your ground, roQQet! And watch out for toddlers with bang-bangs.
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https://heavy.com/news/brown-deer-active-shooter-shooting-wisconsin/
Hey?
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https://heavy.com/news/brown-deer-active-shooter-shooting-wisconsin/
Hey?
So, not downtown?
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Felons with hand guns for starters. That one alone according to the anti gun crowd should get the chair
Felons who are caught with guns are arrested. Tell me, how do you think they get them in the first place?
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Felons with hand guns for starters. That one alone according to the anti gun crowd should get the chair
Yes, because the anti-gun crowd wants felons to possess handguns.
You're too smart for us.
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https://heavy.com/news/brown-deer-active-shooter-shooting-wisconsin/
Hey?
No wonder enrollment is down at Marquette's Brown Deer campus, nu?
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Felons who are caught with guns are arrested. Tell me, how do you think they get them in the first place?
The black market that is intended to bypass gun laws.
Or maybe Kwik Trip.
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https://heavy.com/news/brown-deer-active-shooter-shooting-wisconsin/
Hey?
Are we sure he's not just engaging in legitimate political discourse?
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The black market that is intended to bypass gun laws.
Or maybe Kwik Trip.
Right. That’s why they should be tougher.
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Stop it, Pak.
This country will not be safe until every man, woman and child over the age of 3 has at least a dozen guns. Then, you just watch how safe the Marquette campus and everywhere else will be!
Why stop at gun? Everybody knows a handgun has significant limitations. Why not allow mortars, hand grenades, even cruise missies.
Want to teach an intruder a lesson? Lob a hand grenade. You won’t have another problem with that hoodlum again. Or, do you want to be sure you don’t miss? How about a nuclear weapon? All you need is a delivery system.
The point is the complaints about gun laws are absurd. If we assume a Constitutional right to own and bears arms, where does it end?
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Why stop at gun? Everybody knows a handgun has significant limitations. Why not allow mortars, hand grenades, even cruise missies.
Want to teach an intruder a lesson? Lob a hand grenade. You won’t have another problem with that hoodlum again. Or, do you want to be sure you don’t miss? How about a nuclear weapon? All you need is a delivery system.
The point is the complaints about gun laws are absurd. If we assume a Constitutional right to own and bears arms, where does it end?
I use anthrax
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https://heavy.com/news/brown-deer-active-shooter-shooting-wisconsin/
Hey?
What about Mequon?
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I use anthrax
Anthrax can get messy.
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Right. That’s why they should be tougher.
Ah, so we are back to the part where you think the criminals are going to follow the tougher gun laws.
Criminals.
Don't.
Care.
About.
Laws.
They are criminals.
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Ah, so we are back to the part where you think the criminals are going to follow the tougher gun laws.
Criminals.
Don't.
Care.
About.
Laws.
They are criminals.
Ah, so we are back to the part where you think we shouldn't have laws because criminals will just ignore them.
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Ah, so we are back to the part where you think we shouldn't have laws because criminals will just ignore them.
If we outlaw murder, only outlaws will commit murder.
Checkmate, libtard.
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Ah, so we are back to the part where you think the criminals are going to follow the tougher gun laws.
Criminals.
Don't.
Care.
About.
Laws.
They are criminals.
As
Proven
On
1/6/21
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Ah, so we are back to the part where you think the criminals are going to follow the tougher gun laws.
Criminals.
Don't.
Care.
About.
Laws.
They are criminals.
So let’s have no laws then? That makes no sense.
The laws should make it harder to acquire guns, register them when you have them, and more punitive to sell then to someone who commits a crime.
It’s not hard. Most countries in the world have seemed to manage it.
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Next, end all private gun sales. All guns purchased through a government run store. Like liquor stores in some states.
Every gun, every bullet with a serial number. Tax it heavily, a la cigarettes, booze, pot. Beyond a certain TBD date, any bullet traced back to point of origin.
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It’s not hard. Most countries in the world have seemed to manage it.
It is very strange how American exceptionalism is spliced into the gun debate to try to explain why other countries' policies couldn't work here.
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As
Proven
On
1/6/21
And every BLM riot in the summer of 2020
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Felons who are caught with guns are arrested. Tell me, how do you think they get them in the first place?
Not being a felon, ya got me there monster, but my guess is by stealing them or getting them via the black market. the rates of recidivism here are off the charts because so many of these types just go back to what they do best, breaking the law
Tower here wants to tax the p!ss out of everything related to guns, mandate obscene insurance rates etc. why the need to punish law abiding people for those who break the laws? If guns are so bad, then once a person commits a felony and then commits a crime with a gun should be sent to prison for life. Problem solved. A heinous crime with a gun, lock em up and throw away the key. Don’t punish people who respect and follow our laws
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And every BLM riot in the summer of 2020
BLM is going to be revealed for the scam they are. Where is all that money they’ve taken in? All I know is for a commy organization, they sure do love their mansions. Not sure how that’s helping so many of the black people who’ve been at a disadvantage. Never see them protesting all the murder that continues to ravage the inner cities ruining lives of innocent children
Show me where all that money has gone…upwards of $60 million and more
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BLM is going to be revealed for the scam they are. Where is all that money they’ve taken in? All I know is for a commy organization, they sure do love their mansions. Not sure how that’s helping so many of the black people who’ve been at a disadvantage. Never see them protesting all the murder that continues to ravage the inner cities ruining lives of innocent children
Show me where all that money has gone…upwards of $60 million and more
I know some other scam artists
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Not being a felon, ya got me there monster, but my guess is by stealing them or getting them via the black market. the rates of recidivism here are off the charts because so many of these types just go back to what they do best, breaking the law
Tower here wants to tax the p!ss out of everything related to guns, mandate obscene insurance rates etc. why the need to punish law abiding people for those who break the laws? If guns are so bad, then once a person commits a felony and then commits a crime with a gun should be sent to prison for life. Problem solved. A heinous crime with a gun, lock em up and throw away the key. Don’t punish people who respect and follow our laws
I thought people would understand that locking people up even longer than we do is probably not the answer considering it’s really not working now. But I guess not.
-
Happiness is a warm gun.
-
The USA has more people incarcerated than any other country in the world, by almost a half million. The USA has over a million more prisoners than the country with the third most incarcerated people. The only country that is close to the USA is China, who has a billion more citizens and is literally being accused of sending ethnic minorities to internment camps....yet we still have them beat in incarceration. Even if you look at incarceration rates to factor in the US's large population, it is still number 1.
The USA is also second in the world in total gun deaths (38th in rate of gun deaths). When narrowed to just developed countries with a population of 10 million or more, it is number 1 in rate of gun deaths, and has more than double the rate of the country in second (Chile) and over 8x the country in third.
But yes, the answer is to lock up more people for longer. It's not working yet but if keep at it we'll get there.
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But yes, the answer is to lock up more people for longer.
Glad you’re finally coming to your senses.
Let’s build more prisons. Mexico will pay for them!
-
Not being a felon, ya got me there monster, but my guess is by stealing them or getting them via the black market. the rates of recidivism here are off the charts because so many of these types just go back to what they do best, breaking the law
Tower here wants to tax the p!ss out of everything related to guns, mandate obscene insurance rates etc. why the need to punish law abiding people for those who break the laws? If guns are so bad, then once a person commits a felony and then commits a crime with a gun should be sent to prison for life. Problem solved. A heinous crime with a gun, lock em up and throw away the key. Don’t punish people who respect and follow our laws
Why do you think recidivism is so much higher in the US than most first world countries?
-
Why do you think recidivism is so much higher in the US than most first world countries?
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/recidivism-rates-by-country (https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/recidivism-rates-by-country)
-
He’s dead, guys.
-
BLM is going to be revealed for the scam they are. Where is all that money they’ve taken in? All I know is for a commy organization, they sure do love their mansions. Not sure how that’s helping so many of the black people who’ve been at a disadvantage. Never see them protesting all the murder that continues to ravage the inner cities ruining lives of innocent children
Show me where all that money has gone…upwards of $60 million and more
BLM bought a mansion in Canada. It pays to be anti- America, Marxist, and anti-Semetic, aina?
-
And every BLM riot in the summer of 2020
Legitimate political discourse.
-
Legitimate political discourse.
Considering what it was in response to, yes. But for some strange, inexplicable reason you left that out. Hmmmm…..
-
Legitimate political discourse.
Not what the majority of America thinks.
https://news.yahoo.com/two-thirds-want-blm-riots-192600820.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9kdWNrZHVja2dvLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAGDOfPe4gL7wnG2vG11GlOc_pcbNxLmUL8I3F63mK0AZqIqn7k-tx6LC-pGww7eJC5_AJno0nHzzs6cDRCFWJCFN4u2SL179WXSHgpqB70lUags-jee4LKiWZxFQK6U3jTAD29CmimGs418ahU6AJ02b0Fgen1Gxmv3-a2nHCcty
-
Not what the majority of America thinks.
https://news.yahoo.com/two-thirds-want-blm-riots-192600820.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9kdWNrZHVja2dvLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAGDOfPe4gL7wnG2vG11GlOc_pcbNxLmUL8I3F63mK0AZqIqn7k-tx6LC-pGww7eJC5_AJno0nHzzs6cDRCFWJCFN4u2SL179WXSHgpqB70lUags-jee4LKiWZxFQK6U3jTAD29CmimGs418ahU6AJ02b0Fgen1Gxmv3-a2nHCcty
A link to a story by the Washington Examiner. Because of course.
-
Not what the majority of America thinks.
https://news.yahoo.com/two-thirds-want-blm-riots-192600820.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9kdWNrZHVja2dvLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAGDOfPe4gL7wnG2vG11GlOc_pcbNxLmUL8I3F63mK0AZqIqn7k-tx6LC-pGww7eJC5_AJno0nHzzs6cDRCFWJCFN4u2SL179WXSHgpqB70lUags-jee4LKiWZxFQK6U3jTAD29CmimGs418ahU6AJ02b0Fgen1Gxmv3-a2nHCcty
First, the joke apparently flew miles over your head.
Second, you'll forgive me if I question the validity of a poll about BLM that's conducted by the "National Police Association," which has been labeled by police departments across the country as a scam.
https://www.indystar.com/story/news/investigations/2019/03/17/national-police-association-says-its-helping-police-chiefs-say-its-scam/3144585002/
-
A link to a story by the Washington Examiner. Because of course.
A story reporting results from a Rasmussen poll, not an opinion piece.
-
BLM bought a mansion in Canada. It pays to be anti- America, Marxist, and anti-Semetic, aina?
For sure when it comes to being Anti-American. Look how much money Josh Hawley, Matt Gaetz, Jim Jordan and Ron Johnson raise supporting domestic terrorists?
-
I have absolutely no problem investigating BLM, Inc.. the organization.
I have absolutely no problem investigating the morons behind January 6.
People need to stop presenting things as either/or. We can do both.
-
A story reporting results from a Rasmussen poll, not an opinion piece.
There are other countless stories about the BLM riots causing the most costly damage and destruction than any other riots in history, but I intentionally found a Yahoo news story citing a Rasmussen poll to avoid any right slant. But anything against the peaceful protest narrative will have a right slant to some.
-
Costly damage...yes.
Ginned up by a President and members of his party to overturn a legitimate election...no.
Why people are so willing to give people a pass on the latter by bringing up the former as a diversion is amazing to me.
-
I have absolutely no problem investigating BLM, Inc.. the organization.
I have absolutely no problem investigating the morons behind January 6.
People need to stop presenting things as either/or. We can do both.
Yup. We’re capable of doing both and should. It’s not complicated.
-
Costly damage...yes.
Ginned up by a President and members of his party to overturn a legitimate election...no.
Why people are so willing to give people a pass on the latter by bringing up the former as a diversion is amazing to me.
“If you’re able to, chip in now to the @MNFreedom Fund to help post bail for those protesting on the ground in Minneapolis” - Kamala Harris
So those merely protesting peacefully were being rounded up and arrested? LOL. You want to talk about “ginning up” and supporting rioters - here’s some support AFTER the fact.
-
“If you’re able to, chip in now to the @MNFreedom Fund to help post bail for those protesting on the ground in Minneapolis” - Kamala Harris
So those merely protesting peacefully were being rounded up and arrested? LOL. You want to talk about “ginning up” and supporting rioters - here’s some support AFTER the fact.
The Post’s analysis found the overwhelming majority arrested in those 15 cities — 2,059 of the 2,652 — were accused of nonviolent misdemeanors, most on charges of violating curfew or emergency orders.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/investigations/george-floyd-protesters-arrests/
To be clear, those who committed violent acts should be prosecuted and punished appropriately. But the great majority of those arrested were for nonviolent offenses that amount to traffic citations.
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“If you’re able to, chip in now to the @MNFreedom Fund to help post bail for those protesting on the ground in Minneapolis” - Kamala Harris
So those merely protesting peacefully were being rounded up and arrested? LOL. You want to talk about “ginning up” and supporting rioters - here’s some support AFTER the fact.
Cool. Bail funds are good ideas because I don’t locking up non-violent people who haven’t been proven guilty.
Now show me where they tried to overturn the results of an election.
Your “what about BLM” arguments are getting weaker by the minute.
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There are other countless stories about the BLM riots causing the most costly damage and destruction than any other riots in history, but I intentionally found a Yahoo news story citing a Rasmussen poll to avoid any right slant. But anything against the peaceful protest narrative will have a right slant to some.
You think citing a Rasmussen poll avoids a right slant?
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“If you’re able to, chip in now to the @MNFreedom Fund to help post bail for those protesting on the ground in Minneapolis” - Kamala Harris
So those merely protesting peacefully were being rounded up and arrested? LOL. You want to talk about “ginning up” and supporting rioters - here’s some support AFTER the fact.
I'm really quite surprised that you're bending yourself into a pretzel to equate anything to the sitting president of the United States inciting a violent coup attempt against the U.S. government, followed by the president gleefully watching the carnage even as the likes of his own kids and Fox personalities begged him to try to stop it. About 150 Capitol police officers were injured in the seditionist act, but all the "law and order" ex-president talks about now is pardoning the convicted felons who perpetrated the violence. I'm surprised at your willingness to downplay a national disgrace like that, Tony, one that so many leading conservative voices and religious leaders have strongly condemned.
But yes, there were also was some violence in the hundreds and hundreds of mostly peaceful protests that stemmed from George Floyd and other Black people having their lives snuffed out. I agree with then candidate-Biden that those guilty of violence should be punished to the full extent of the law. I haven't heard him say he plans to pardon any of them.
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He’s dead, guys.
Nah, like cockroaches, he'll just crawl out from under the fridge like nothing happened.
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I'm really quite surprised that you're bending yourself into a pretzel to equate anything to the sitting president of the United States inciting a violent coup attempt against the U.S. government, followed by the president gleefully watching the carnage even as the likes of his own kids and Fox personalities begged him to try to stop it. About 150 Capitol police officers were injured in the seditionist act, but all the "law and order" ex-president talks about now is pardoning the convicted felons who perpetrated the violence. I'm surprised at your willingness to downplay a national disgrace like that, Tony, one that so many leading conservative voices and religious leaders have strongly condemned.
But yes, there were also was some violence some violence in the hundreds and hundreds of mostly peaceful protests that stemmed from George Floyd and other Black people having their lives snuffed out. I agree with then candidate-Biden that those guilty of violence should be punished to the full extent of the law. I haven't heard him say he plans to pardon any of them.
come on man! there was over a $billion$ damage during the "mostly peaceful" riots. over 2000 police were injured and 25-50 deaths depending on who's counting. the capital disruption caused $1.5 mil damage and 5 deaths. one was an unarmed female shot by capital police. 3 deaths by natural causes and one drug overdose.
if you want to talk about the jan 6 disturbance, then show us all the video tapes and ask nancy why she told capital police to stand down and they didn't allow the 25.000 national guard to be on hand oh, btw, president trump had them ready, nancy never called them up
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A story reporting results from a Rasmussen poll, not an opinion piece.
Rasmussen polls are an opinion piece.
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No discussion about the St Paul shooting?
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if you want to talk about the jan 6 disturbance, then show us all the video tapes and ask nancy why she told capital police to stand down and they didn't allow the 25.000 national guard to be on hand oh, btw, president trump had them ready, nancy never called them up
rocket ... Scoop's reigning purveyor of fake news.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/12/16/fact-check-no-trump-request-10000-guard-troops-jan-6/8929215002/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/07/27/fact-check-nancy-pelosi-isnt-in-charge-capitol-police/8082088002/
Anyone else notice the recurring theme among some posters here who are far more concerned with the torching of Autozones and looting of Apple stores than they are of a violent coup attempt?
Nice priorities you got there, fellas.
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rocket ... Scoop's reigning purveyor of fake news.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/12/16/fact-check-no-trump-request-10000-guard-troops-jan-6/8929215002/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/07/27/fact-check-nancy-pelosi-isnt-in-charge-capitol-police/8082088002/
Anyone else notice the recurring theme among some posters here who are far more concerned with the torching or Autozones and looting of Apple stores than they are of a violent coup attempt?
Nice priorities you got there, fellas.
He’s already dead
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Blue lives matter. Unless you’re trying to overthrow your own democracy.
America first, baby.
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if you want to talk about the jan 6 disturbance, then show us all the video tapes and ask nancy why she told capital police to stand down and they didn't allow the 25.000 national guard to be on hand oh, btw, president trump had them ready, nancy never called them up
You are a delusional conspiracy theorist who has been conned so easily by a deranged narcissist and his sycophants that it's impossible to believe you have a college degree. Your twice-impeached hero became the only president in U.S. history to incite a violent coup attempt against his own country. He now wants to pardon the armed felons who beat cops bloody. And you not only are OK with it, you cheer it on.
Hang Mike Pence, roQQet, Hang Mike Pence!
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And every BLM riot in the summer of 2020
Including or excluding the ones instigated by white supremacy sympathizers?
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Including or excluding the ones instigated by white supremacy sympathizers?
The idea that it was white supremacists who burned down cities and killed scores in the summer of 2020 is as crazy as the claim that the FBI or antifa incited the Jan 6 riots.
IOW, bs.
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The idea that it was white supremacists who burned down cities and killed scores in the summer of 2020 is as crazy as the claim that the FBI or antifa incited the Jan 6 riots.
IOW, bs.
Speaking of BS, which cities were burned down? Where were "scores" of people killed?
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The idea that it was white supremacists who burned down cities and killed scores in the summer of 2020 is as crazy as the claim that the FBI or antifa incited the Jan 6 riots.
IOW, bs.
I'm not saying it happened all over or a bunch but it did happen at least once.
https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/man-helped-ignite-george-floyd-riots-identified-white/story?id=72051536
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Speaking of BS, which cities were burned down? Where were "scores" of people killed?
“Burned down” was hyperbolic - burned up was more like it. Estimates of damages from arson and looting between$1.5 and 2 billion. “Scores” (40+) also appears to be - hard to get a definitive number. The lowest estimate I’ve seen is between 12 and 19. Between 700 and 1000 policemen were injured.
Apologies for exaggerations.
What was the death toll, property damage and injuries to law enforcement on January 6?
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What was the death toll, property damage and injuries to law enforcement on January 6?
Why can't you condemn Jan. 6 without trying to minimize it?
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(https://i.imgur.com/aCfgSWQ.jpg)
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“Burned down” was hyperbolic - burned up was more like it. Estimates of damages from arson and looting between$1.5 and 2 billion. “Scores” (40+) also appears to be - hard to get a definitive number. The lowest estimate I’ve seen is between 12 and 19. Between 700 and 1000 policemen were injured.
Apologies for exaggerations.
What was the death toll, property damage and injuries to law enforcement on January 6?
Beat cops bloody, which is what the 1/6/21 seditionists did, is not hyperbole.
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(https://i.imgur.com/aCfgSWQ.jpg)
Ooh! Can all of us play?
Select all the squares with the seditionists who injured about 150 police officers as they staged a violent coup at the behest of the president of the United States.
(https://s.abcnews.com/images/US/jan6-2-gty-rc-210803_1628002190102_hpMain_16x9_992.jpg)
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(https://i.imgur.com/aCfgSWQ.jpg)
You have got to be crapting me
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Why can't you condemn Jan. 6 without trying to minimize it?
Gee. I wonder why. Such a mystery.
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Why can't you condemn Jan. 6 without trying to minimize it?
I do condemn it/them and always have. I’ve made posts here that do just that.
That said, the idea that this was a planned, armed attempt to overthrow the government (a drum banged over and over and over by some politicians, some media members and some Scoopers) is on its face absurd to me. And the fact that that those same folks who refer to it as such minimized and in some cases even carried water for the rioters in the summer of 2020 seems hypocritical to me.
I have zero sympathy for the idiots who stormed the Capitol. I didn’t contribute to funds trying to bail them out or encourage anyone else to - I hope they’re punished for what they did. The fact that I can’t say the same about many BLM supporters (including our Vice President) saddens me.
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I do condemn it/them and always have. I’ve made posts here that do just that.
That said, the idea that this was a planned, armed attempt to overthrow the government (a drum banged over and over and over by some politicians, some media members and some Scoopers) is on its face absurd to me. And the fact that that those same folks who refer to it as such minimized and in some cases even carried water for the rioters in the summer of 2020 seems hypocritical to me.
I have zero sympathy for the idiots who stormed the Capitol. I didn’t contribute to funds trying to bail them out or encourage anyone else to - I hope they’re punished for what they did. The fact that I can’t say the same about many BLM supporters (including our Vice President) saddens me.
You once again can't seem tell the difference between BLM the movement and BLM, Inc.
The vast majority of people who protested were peaceful, including many of those who were arrested and then bailed out using contributed funds. This has been stated multiple times here but apparently you can't figure it out.
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From the AP this morning in an article about attempts to get Ivanka Trump to testify to the 1/6 panel:
Hours after Trump’s call to Pence, Ivanka Trump joined brother Donald Trump Jr., Rudy Giuliani and Kimberly Guilfoyle under a large tent at the rally to listen to Trump’s speech.
(Ivanka) reportedly told aides she “decided to attend only because she had hoped to calm the president and help keep the event on an even keel.”
After Trump’s speech, as rioters began to smash through Capitol police barriers and break windows, the former president tweeted: “Mike Pence didn’t have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our Country and our Constitution ...”
That tweet, according to court testimony, only added to the anger fueling the mob.
Back in the White House, as staffers watched in shock at what was unfolding down Pennsylvania Avenue on television screens positioned throughout the West Wing, Trump’s attention was so rapt that he hit rewind and watched certain moments again, according to Stephanie Grisham, a former White House press secretary.
“Look at all of the people fighting for me,” Trump said, according to Grisham, who also served as chief of staff to first lady Melania Trump. At one point, the president was confused why staffers weren’t as excited as he was watching the unrest unfold.
Kellogg testified that staff wanted the president to take immediate action to address the violence consuming the Capitol, but Trump refused.
“Is someone getting to potus? He has to tell protestors to dissipate. Someone is going to get killed,” Alyssa Farrah Griffin, a former White House communications official, texted Ben Williamson, an aide to White House chief of staff Mark Meadows.
“I’ve been trying for the last 30 minutes. Literally stormed in outer oval to get him to put out the first one. It’s completely insane,” Williamson wrote back.
Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., then called Ivanka Trump, pleading that the president “ask people to leave.”
“We’re working on it,” she replied.
At that point, staffers acknowledged that despite efforts by Meadows, press secretary Kayleigh McEnany and Kellogg, the only person who could get through to him would be his daughter.
Ivanka Trump, according to testimony, went on to make at least two “tenacious” attempts to reason with her father as staffers were bombarded with messages from Trump allies begging him to quell the violence.
“Can he make a statement. I saw the tweet. Ask people to leave the (Capitol),” Fox News host Sean Hannity texted Meadows.
But inside the West Wing, Kellogg strongly recommended that they not ask the president to appear in the press room, where a group of reporters would be waiting for him.
“Apparently, certain White House staff believed that a live unscripted press appearance by the President in the midst of the Capitol Hill violence could have made the situation worse,” lawmakers wrote in their letter to Ivanka Trump.
The president ultimately agreed to a video statement. Multiple takes were filmed but not used. In each one of the initial takes, according to the committee, he failed to ask rioters to leave.
The final video was released on Twitter at 4:17 p.m. — nearly two hours after Trump’s initial tweet criticizing Pence.
“This was a fraudulent election, but we can’t play into the hands of these people,” Trump said in the video. “We have to have peace. So go home. We love you; you’re very special.”
Rep. Liz Cheney, R-Wyo., the vice chair of the House committee investigating the Jan. 6 insurrection, has said it’s hard to “imagine a more significant and more serious dereliction of duty” than Trump’s failure to quell the riots.
Trump’s last words that day came at 6:01 p.m. when he tweeted that the 2020 election was “unceremoniously and viciously stripped away from great patriots who have been badly and unfairly treated for so long.”
He ended with, “Go home with love and in peace. Remember this day forever.”
https://apnews.com/article/capitol-siege-ivanka-trump-joe-biden-donald-trump-congress-f578160e79b0c8fc4f16c21c2afa9e8b?user_email=6647dfa7189f748384d7389910f7b584c6fcfc35ae990102964c7e826d4175c7&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=New%20Campaign&utm_term=Morning%20Wire%20Subscribers
Again, here's the definition of coup: a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government.
It was an attempted coup; thankfully, they didn't succeed, partly because Pence and members of Congress were ushered away to safety. The then-president fomented the attempted coup beforehand ... he reveled in it as it took place ... he wondered why others also weren't reveling in it ... he refused to do anything to quell it for hours even as the violent crowd of armed seditionists injured police, ransacked the Capitol and searched for Pence and Pelosi ... and when it finally ended, he told the terrorists (Ted Cruz's word) he "loved" them.
He's right that history will remember 1/6/21 forever as one of the saddest in American history, the day the sitting president incited a violent coup attempt against his own government.
But yes, there were protests against police brutality and unfortunately, a few turned violent. Then-candidate Biden condemned the violence and tried to calm the situation. So sure ... it's practically the exact same situation as the "legitimate political discourse" of 1/6/21 and the then-president's approach to it.
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In this case I agree with the opinion of the National Review.
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(https://i.imgur.com/aCfgSWQ.jpg)
Hey CountryRoads,
Look, I found a photo that proves nothing bad happened during WW2! Who are the dopes that actually believe that millions of people died? What a bunch of morons, right? Looks like a pretty decent party with music...maybe a little heavy on the dudes...
(https://media-cldnry.s-nbcnews.com/image/upload/t_nbcnews-fp-1024-512,f_auto,q_auto:best/newscms/2015_21/1033556/150520-france-liberation-mn-0535.jpg)
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I do condemn it/them and always have. I’ve made posts here that do just that.
That said, the idea that this was a planned, armed attempt to overthrow the government (a drum banged over and over and over by some politicians, some media members and some Scoopers) is on its face absurd to me. And the fact that that those same folks who refer to it as such minimized and in some cases even carried water for the rioters in the summer of 2020 seems hypocritical to me.
I have zero sympathy for the idiots who stormed the Capitol. I didn’t contribute to funds trying to bail them out or encourage anyone else to - I hope they’re punished for what they did. The fact that I can’t say the same about many BLM supporters (including our Vice President) saddens me.
You condemn it, and then immediately try to minimize it.
Very on brand.
And if you don't think it was a planned, armed attempt to overthrow the election results, you're willfully ignorant of reality.
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You condemn it, and then immediately try to minimize it.
Very on brand.
And if you don't think it was a planned, armed attempt to overthrow the election results, you're willfully ignorant of reality.
I do not try to minimize it but rather condemn it for what it was.
Meanwhile, where is your condemnation of those here who haven’t (yourself included) condemned without minimizing the riots of 2020?
You can call my disagreement with your point of view “willful ignorance” if insulting me makes you feel good - but it doesn’t make it so.
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I do not try to minimize it but rather condemn it for what it was.
Meanwhile, where is your condemnation of those here who haven’t (yourself included) condemned without minimizing the riots of 2020?
You can call my disagreement with your point of view “willful ignorance” if insulting me makes you feel good - but it doesn’t make it so.
If 1/6/20 wasn't a planned, armed attempt at a coup, then wtf was it? Individuals all just decided to go to Washington, DC with their assault rifles on their own, the sitting President of the United States of America had a spur of the moment, popup rally for what he assumed would be just passer bys on the sidewalk (since it wasn't a planned group of people gathering together), and things just escalated quickly in ways nobody saw coming?
Jesus Christ people are dumb.
They were using messaging apps to contact each other and planning the entire thing. And they carried it out. And people died, including the blue lives that matter so significantly when someone says that black lives matter. Well, they didn't matter that day.
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I do not try to minimize it but rather condemn it for what it was.
Meanwhile, where is your condemnation of those here who haven’t (yourself included) condemned without minimizing the riots of 2020?
You can call my disagreement with your point of view “willful ignorance” if insulting me makes you feel good - but it doesn’t make it so.
I condemn all political violence, from all corners. I have never once minimized any riot. But I will continue to call out hysterical hyperbole.
"Willful ignorance" is the generous interpretation of those who - given all the evidence we have today - claim Jan. 6 was neither planned nor armed. It's not a "point of view" It's truth vs lies.
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I do not try to minimize it but rather condemn it for what it was.
Meanwhile, where is your condemnation of those here who haven’t (yourself included) condemned without minimizing the riots of 2020?
You can call my disagreement with your point of view “willful ignorance” if insulting me makes you feel good - but it doesn’t make it so.
Referring to the entire summer of protests as some sort of non-stop burn every major city center riot is idiocy.
In every group of people there will be trouble makers who want to cause mayhem.
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If 1/6/20 wasn't a planned, armed attempt at a coup, then wtf was it? Individuals all just decided to go to Washington, DC with their assault rifles on their own, the sitting President of the United States of America had a spur of the moment, popup rally for what he assumed would be just passer bys on the sidewalk (since it wasn't a planned group of people gathering together), and things just escalated quickly in ways nobody saw coming?
Jesus Christ people are dumb.
They were using messaging apps to contact each other and planning the entire thing. And they carried it out. And people died, including the blue lives that matter so significantly when someone says that black lives matter. Well, they didn't matter that day.
Let's not forget the private tours given by members of Congress the days before...
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The idea that it was white supremacists who burned down cities and killed scores in the summer of 2020 is as crazy as the claim that the FBI or antifa incited the Jan 6 riots.
IOW, bs.
How do you not know that Proud Boys and Boogaloo Boys members were arrested for instigating vandalism in multiple cities?
Couple the lack of education on the people arrested with your wildly hysterical exaggerations of what occurred and it seems quite plain you're talking out of turn.
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come on man! there was over a $billion$ damage during the "mostly peaceful" riots. over 2000 police were injured and 25-50 deaths depending on who's counting. the capital disruption caused $1.5 mil damage and 5 deaths. one was an unarmed female shot by capital police. 3 deaths by natural causes and one drug overdose.
if you want to talk about the jan 6 disturbance, then show us all the video tapes and ask nancy why she told capital police to stand down and they didn't allow the 25.000 national guard to be on hand oh, btw, president trump had them ready, nancy never called them up
10 out of 10 and 5 gold star bonus.
This one is a masterpiece. Conspiracy theories abound along with absurdly incorrect information.
A violent attempt to overturn a Presidential election and the government itself is a:
"thingy"
"disruption"
"disturbance"
Bravo.
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That said, the idea that this was a planned, armed attempt to overthrow the government (a drum banged over and over and over by some politicians, some media members and some Scoopers) is on its face absurd to me.
Lenny man, THEY.PUBLISHED.A.POWERPOINT on exactly how they were going to overturn the election. The rioters didn't just spontaneously show up, they spent weeks organizing the "rally" and calling for people to show up. The endgame was to disrupt the official tally of the electoral college, and after Pence refused to play the part assigned him, Trump let loose the rioters.
You don't have to take my word for it, all of this is easily available information and part of the public record, and news reports on these facts are all over. I mean, just read the powerpoint.
You may think it is absurd, but all you have to do is read the information.
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Devils advocate...this feels like quibbling over "planned".
One side says "it was planned" aka it was not spontaneous, there was messaging and planning and communication. Groups took directives from Trump or the PBs or whoever. Weapons were found in the mob of various sorts, thus it was armed.
The "it wasn't planned/armed" stance would be it wasn't some military precision coup with armed commandos/militias/tactics. Aka this was more a loosely coordinated mob unleashed on the Capitol to cause chaos/destruction/etc...
I think both sides here have a point. As terrifying as it is, given the amount of military trained, Spec Ops masquerading, COD festishizing lunatics there are in the Trump sphere, I think a truly coordinated and strategized tactical attack/raid on the Capitol would have been more precise, more impactful, and shudder, more successful.
Also, FWIW, there is some dishonesty here about people claiming nobody is downplaying the BLM-fueled riots that summer. Anyone who immediately calls Jan 6 into play the minute its brought up is doing just that. The same people that mock "very fine people on both sides" do it. There is this idea that since they were centered in a positive message, breaking a few eggs to make an omelet is fine...cause at least they weren't trying to stage a coup.
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Lenny man, THEY.PUBLISHED.A.POWERPOINT on exactly how they were going to overturn the election.
Little did they know they lacked the support of the one man they needed to change the country forever...
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTgOqFlui3EzWebXjPeLa9qG5OnJ9NH_ywCrQ&usqp=CAU)
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Just because it was planned poorly and executed even more poorly - hardly a surprise given the cast of buffoons taking part* - doesn't mean it wasn't planned or ought to be brushed off as something not serious.
* Let's not forget that one of the main organizers here shot his own damn eye out because he got careless with a loaded gun
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I said then, I say now.... I support the constitutionally protected right to peaceful protest. I condemn violence and destruction of property.
Especially when I have to clean up after it.
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Little did they know they lacked the support of the one man they needed to change the country forever...
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTgOqFlui3EzWebXjPeLa9qG5OnJ9NH_ywCrQ&usqp=CAU)
Wojo could have recruited very highly thought of insurrectionists, but they would have performed more and more poorly as the coup went on.
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The "it wasn't planned/armed" stance would be it wasn't some military precision coup with armed commandos/militias/tactics. Aka this was more a loosely coordinated mob unleashed on the Capitol to cause chaos/destruction/etc...
I think both sides here have a point. As terrifying as it is, given the amount of military trained, Spec Ops masquerading, COD festishizing lunatics there are in the Trump sphere, I think a truly coordinated and strategized tactical attack/raid on the Capitol would have been more precise, more impactful, and shudder, more successful.
You can argue what does or does not constitute military precision in your mind, but that's exactly what the white nationalist groups were trying to do, complete with their tactical combat gear and communications. And, they were unleased with a very specific goal in mind--not to cause chaos or destruction specifically, but rather to prevent the certification. Chaos and destruction were just a by-product.
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/oath-keepers-sedition-case-major-220307290.html
"All 19 defendants charged in the three Oath Keepers cases are accused of trying to obstruct Congress’s certification of the Electoral College results. Two of the cases allege conspiracies. The seditious conspiracy indictment accuses Rhodes and his 10 codefendants of being part of a plot to use force to stop the transfer of power from former president Donald Trump to President Joe Biden. Seditious conspiracy sweeps more broadly than the original conspiracy count; the former delves into the alleged anti-government motivations of defendants, while the latter focuses more on the practicalities of alleged planning by the Oath Keepers to attack the Capitol on Jan. 6."
‘Wait for the 6th When We Are All in DC to Insurrection’: New Communications Indicate Coordination Between Oath Keepers, Proud Boys, and Three-Percenters
https://lawandcrime.com/u-s-capitol-siege/wait-for-the-6th-when-we-are-all-in-dc-to-insurrection-new-communications-indicate-coordination-between-oath-keepers-proud-boys-and-three-percenters/
How the Proud Boys took a leading role in Capitol insurrection
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Proud+Boys+at+insurrection&&view=detail&mid=D199EA90E568E596D003D199EA90E568E596D003&&FORM=VDRVRV
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Brown shirts.
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Devils advocate...this feels like quibbling over "planned".
One side says "it was planned" aka it was not spontaneous, there was messaging and planning and communication. Groups took directives from Trump or the PBs or whoever. Weapons were found in the mob of various sorts, thus it was armed.
The "it wasn't planned/armed" stance would be it wasn't some military precision coup with armed commandos/militias/tactics. Aka this was more a loosely coordinated mob unleashed on the Capitol to cause chaos/destruction/etc...
I think both sides here have a point. As terrifying as it is, given the amount of military trained, Spec Ops masquerading, COD festishizing lunatics there are in the Trump sphere, I think a truly coordinated and strategized tactical attack/raid on the Capitol would have been more precise, more impactful, and shudder, more successful.
Also, FWIW, there is some dishonesty here about people claiming nobody is downplaying the BLM-fueled riots that summer. Anyone who immediately calls Jan 6 into play the minute its brought up is doing just that. The same people that mock "very fine people on both sides" do it. There is this idea that since they were centered in a positive message, breaking a few eggs to make an omelet is fine...cause at least they weren't trying to stage a coup.
Well said.
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There is this idea that since they were centered in a positive message, breaking a few eggs to make an omelet is fine...cause at least they weren't trying to stage a coup.
But doesn't this matter? I can understand and respect anger that stems from generations of oppression and the sincere belief that the police (who are government employees) are targeting and killing members of their community (I have no respect for opportunists who use protests as cover for committing acts of violence). I don't condone those who expressed it in the form of violence, but I appreciate their righteous indignation. I cannot say the same about people whose anger stems from their preferred presidential candidate losing an election.
MLK never participated in a riot. He also never denounced them as immoral. King referred to riots as "a language of the unheard" and recognized that the only way to stop rioting was to address the injustice that sparked the rioting in the first place. All rioters should be held accountable...but that needs to be coupled with meaningful change to address the injustices and disparities in our country, otherwise it will just lead to more rioting in the future.
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Someone pm Lens. Make sure he's safe, hey?
Just saw this. I am safe. It happened 6 blocks from my office and I was headed back into work when a co-worker called and said don't bother the place is all taped off. Our nanny got caught in a MU academic building that was locked down.
We're all good. We all woke up the next day, I went back to work, she went back to class.
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You're a very smart guy, Wags, so I'm sure you know that the direct involvement of the President of the United States (as well as several United States congresspeople) in a violent coup attempt against the United States government is a whole-'nother-level situation.
The president was absolutely giddy as he watched the mob he unleashed lay siege to the U.S. Capitol: "Look at all the people fighting for me!"
There's never been anything like it in the history of our democratic republic.
We have people here shrugging their shoulders and agreeing with the official Republican plank that 1/6/21 was "legitimate political discourse." We have "law-and-order" people who apparently don't give a rat's rump that 150 cops were injured on 1/6/21 (and a few ended up dying).
I know that political viewpoints make some folks sometimes say dopey stuff -- present company included -- but this casual disregard of the seriousness of what happened on one of the darkest days in U.S. history ... I honestly don't get it.
The events of 1/6/21 should transcend political affiliation. Every American should have been repulsed by it, every American should be pushing for every perpetrator to be punished to the full extent of the law, and every American should want an independent panel to thoroughly investigate exactly what happened -- especially the roles of those in power.
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But doesn't this matter? I can understand and respect anger that stems from generations of oppression and the sincere belief that the police (who are government employees) are targeting and killing members of their community (I have no respect for opportunists who use protests as cover for committing acts of violence). I don't condone those who expressed it in the form of violence, but I appreciate their righteous indignation. I cannot say the same about people whose anger stems from their preferred presidential candidate losing an election.
MLK never participated in a riot. He also never denounced them as immoral. King referred to riots as "a language of the unheard" and recognized that the only way to stop rioting was to address the injustice that sparked the rioting in the first place. All rioters should be held accountable...but that needs to be coupled with meaningful change to address the injustices and disparities in our country, otherwise it will just lead to more rioting in the future.
I don’t think it does, cause I can’t broad brush it all. I agree with the general BLM mindset and movement 1000%. I also don’t give a pass to what happened underneath my apartment at the time in NYC where 3 residents of my building got punched in the face/head and countless stores/windows were broken into or demolished. Those weren't people with righteous indignation, that was awful people using collective anger as an excuse and opportunity for their version of the Purge.
I see marches and collective protests that have collateral damage and I get it. It’s an overflow of emotion and need to be heard and whatnot. That doesn’t phase me. Packs of roving idiots in the meantime, they get no quarter no matter what the root cause. And those people get pardoned in the “public sentiment” cause they get tied to the well intentioned protestors and organizers.
Same repeated stuff ad nauseam including a democratic republic drop!
Stop projecting your same speeches and feelings on everything. I never said that. Lenny never said that. Not shrugging their shoulders. Not applauding them or Trump. I can have my feelings above and still feel that way about the Capitol f**kwits. There is this need to counterweigh each group cause the participants by and large occupy a different side of the political aisle. That’s a dumb as defending the actions of any of them.
But also don’t needing every discussion to go right back to 1/6 and screech about it with whataboutism that you otherwise decry. It may be shocking to you, but it’s ok to have different viewpoints on it while still be “repulsed” by it.
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You're a very smart guy, Wags, so I'm sure you know that the direct involvement of the President of the United States (as well as several United States congresspeople) in a violent coup attempt against the United States government is a whole-'nother-level situation.
The president was absolutely giddy as he watched the mob he unleashed lay siege to the U.S. Capitol: "Look at all the people fighting for me!"
There's never been anything like it in the history of our democratic republic.
We have people here shrugging their shoulders and agreeing with the official Republican plank that 1/6/21 was "legitimate political discourse." We have "law-and-order" people who apparently don't give a rat's rump that 150 cops were injured on 1/6/21 (and a few ended up dying).
I know that political viewpoints make some folks sometimes say dopey stuff -- present company included -- but this casual disregard of the seriousness of what happened on one of the darkest days in U.S. history ... I honestly don't get it.
The events of 1/6/21 should transcend political affiliation. Every American should have been repulsed by it, every American should be pushing for every perpetrator to be punished to the full extent of the law, and every American should want an independent panel to thoroughly investigate exactly what happened -- especially the roles of those in power.
You are quickly becoming like shoothoops and his bat signal of anything St Louis related.
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Well said.
Read the PowerPoint
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Not armed. No plan.
A new video from the deadly Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol appears to show two Texas men threatening to drag then-Vice President Mike Pence and other lawmakers through the streets.
The men, Ryan Nichols and Alex Harkrider, were arrested days later in Texas and charged with various crimes, including assault with a dangerous weapon — specifically, a crowbar, baton and pepper spray, according to the indictment against them.[
“I’m hearing reports that Pence caved,” Nichols says in the video. “I’m telling you, if Pence caved, we’re gonna drag motherf***ers through the streets.”
“You f***ing politicians are gonna get f***ing drug through the streets! Because we’re not going to have our f***ing s*** stolen,” Nichols continues. “If you voted for f***ing treason, we’re gonna drag your f***ing ass through the street.”
"Cut their f***ing heads off!" Harkrider yells at one point.
“Cut their head off!” Nichols replies./i]
https://www.yahoo.com/news/new-video-jan-6-capitol-riot-pence-threat-drag-through-streets-195249884.html
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I think both sides here have a point. As terrifying as it is, given the amount of military trained, Spec Ops masquerading, COD festishizing lunatics there are in the Trump sphere, I think a truly coordinated and strategized tactical attack/raid on the Capitol would have been more precise, more impactful, and shudder, more successful.
A coordinated, strategized tactical attack:
The Conspirators: The Proud Boys and Oath Keepers on Jan. 6
https://www.lawfareblog.com/conspirators-proud-boys-and-oath-keepers-jan-6
“You won’t see us,” he [Joe Biggs, Proud Boys] wrote. “We are going to smell like you, move like you, and look like you. The only thing we’ll do that’s us is think like us! Jan 6th is gonna be epic.”
The Oath Keepers, for their part, acted in an audaciously open, disciplined and military fashion as they allegedly attacked the heart and symbol of our democratic government. At about 2:39 p.m. that day, when about 14 of them allegedly helped force open the building’s Eastern doors near the Capitol Rotunda, they were decked out in full tactical gear, wearing hard-knuckled gloves, tactical vests or “plate carriers,” camo helmets, ballistic goggles, radios with earpieces, gaiters and boots. Certain individuals allegedly carried bear spray or a coil of paracord. The spectacle of at least 12 Oath Keepers maneuvering up the Capitol steps in “stack formation”—each holding the shoulder of the cadre in front of him or her—became an indelible symbol of the insurrection.
By the time the Oath Keepers first helped the mob force its way into the east side of the Capitol at 2:39 p.m., the western side of the building had already been breached about a half hour earlier, at about 2:13 p.m. The Proud Boys had played a crucial role in accomplishing that feat, according to the government."
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Not armed. No plan.
A new video from the deadly Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol appears to show two Texas men threatening to drag then-Vice President Mike Pence and other lawmakers through the streets.
The men, Ryan Nichols and Alex Harkrider, were arrested days later in Texas and charged with various crimes, including assault with a dangerous weapon — specifically, a crowbar, baton and pepper spray, according to the indictment against them.[
“I’m hearing reports that Pence caved,” Nichols says in the video. “I’m telling you, if Pence caved, we’re gonna drag motherf***ers through the streets.”
“You f***ing politicians are gonna get f***ing drug through the streets! Because we’re not going to have our f***ing s*** stolen,” Nichols continues. “If you voted for f***ing treason, we’re gonna drag your f***ing ass through the street.”
"Cut their f***ing heads off!" Harkrider yells at one point.
“Cut their head off!” Nichols replies./i]
https://www.yahoo.com/news/new-video-jan-6-capitol-riot-pence-threat-drag-through-streets-195249884.html
Not sure that really adds anything or is anything illuminating. Never in my post did I imply they were completely unarmed or they randomly showed up.
A coordinated, strategized tactical attack:
The Conspirators: The Proud Boys and Oath Keepers on Jan. 6
https://www.lawfareblog.com/conspirators-proud-boys-and-oath-keepers-jan-6
“You won’t see us,” he [Joe Biggs, Proud Boys] wrote. “We are going to smell like you, move like you, and look like you. The only thing we’ll do that’s us is think like us! Jan 6th is gonna be epic.”
The Oath Keepers, for their part, acted in an audaciously open, disciplined and military fashion as they allegedly attacked the heart and symbol of our democratic government. At about 2:39 p.m. that day, when about 14 of them allegedly helped force open the building’s Eastern doors near the Capitol Rotunda, they were decked out in full tactical gear, wearing hard-knuckled gloves, tactical vests or “plate carriers,” camo helmets, ballistic goggles, radios with earpieces, gaiters and boots. Certain individuals allegedly carried bear spray or a coil of paracord. The spectacle of at least 12 Oath Keepers maneuvering up the Capitol steps in “stack formation”—each holding the shoulder of the cadre in front of him or her—became an indelible symbol of the insurrection.
By the time the Oath Keepers first helped the mob force its way into the east side of the Capitol at 2:39 p.m., the western side of the building had already been breached about a half hour earlier, at about 2:13 p.m. The Proud Boys had played a crucial role in accomplishing that feat, according to the government."
A bunch of "allegedly" from a random blog? I'm not saying you're wrong but a some cobbled together post from a financial journalist isn't the end all be all source.
I'm sure I'll now be labeled a MAGA sympathizer who is downplaying the attack ::)
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I don’t think it does, cause I can’t broad brush it all. I agree with the general BLM mindset and movement 1000%. I also don’t give a pass to what happened underneath my apartment at the time in NYC where 3 residents of my building got punched in the face/head and countless stores/windows were broken into or demolished. Those weren't people with righteous indignation, that was awful people using collective anger as an excuse and opportunity for their version of the Purge.
I see marches and collective protests that have collateral damage and I get it. It’s an overflow of emotion and need to be heard and whatnot. That doesn’t phase me. Packs of roving idiots in the meantime, they get no quarter no matter what the root cause. And those people get pardoned in the “public sentiment” cause they get tied to the well intentioned protestors and organizers.
Stop projecting your same speeches and feelings on everything. I never said that. Lenny never said that. Not shrugging their shoulders. Not applauding them or Trump. I can have my feelings above and still feel that way about the Capitol f**kwits. There is this need to counterweigh each group cause the participants by and large occupy a different side of the political aisle. That’s a dumb as defending the actions of any of them.
But also don’t needing every discussion to go right back to 1/6 and screech about it with whataboutism that you otherwise decry. It may be shocking to you, but it’s ok to have different viewpoints on it while still be “repulsed” by it.
This. Again. Thank you.
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You are quickly becoming like shoothoops and his bat signal of anything St Louis related.
So ironic.
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A bunch of "allegedly" from a random blog? I'm not saying you're wrong but a some cobbled together post from a financial journalist isn't the end all be all source.
I'm sure I'll now be labeled a MAGA sympathizer who is downplaying the attack ::)
Wags, are you seriously going to try to say that the information presented is inaccurate in some way? First of all, the guy is a lawyer, so of course he is going to correctly say “allegedly” since none of them have gone to trial yet. But second, none of this is roqqet level conspiracy theories, it is all publicly available information.
Here is the indictment of the leader of the Oath Keepers:
https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1462481/download
“d. Organizing trainings to teach and learn paramilitary combat tactics;
e. Bringing and contributing firearms, ammunition, and related equipment to the QRF staging areas outside Washington, D.C.;
f. Bringing and contributing paramilitary gear, weapons, and supplies-including knives, batons, camouflaged combat uniforms, tactical vests with plates, helmets, eye protection, and radio equipment-to the Capitol grounds;
g. Breaching and attempting to take control of the Capitol grounds and building on January 6, 2021, in an effort to prevent, hinder, and delay the Certification of the Electoral College vote;
On November 9, 2020, RHODES held a private GoToMeeting-an online meeting !site that allows users to host conference calls and video conferences via the Internet-limited to !Oath Keepers members, titled, "Oath Keepers National Call - Members Only," which was ! !attended by MEGGS, HARRELSON, WATKINS, HACKETT, and others, including a person i !whom RHODES appointed as the operation leader for January 6, 2021. During the meeting, !RHODES outlined a plan to stop the lawful transfer ofpresidential power, including preparations lfor the use offorce, and urged those listening to participate.
There is a lot more, meticulously detailed, if you read through the indictment.
Here is the indictment of the Proud Boys that details their coordinated efforts including their advanced planning and the gear that brought along with them:
https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/case-multi-defendant/file/1377586/download
And there are, of course, literally thousands of pictures of the insurrectionists in their paramilitary tactical gear.
(https://www.reviewjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/14697065_web1_14697065-5baf90123c6742b89762d19d1f7be06f.jpg?crop=1)
(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/kov0KzmHn_ArMCrDwIZGxQ--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTk2MDtoPTU3Ni42MDM3NzM1ODQ5MDU2/https://s.yimg.com/uu/api/res/1.2/mHnYnSzNSosjD9RiHV_2Cg--~B/aD01NzM7dz05NTQ7YXBwaWQ9eXRhY2h5b24-/https://media.zenfs.com/en/usa_today_news_641/9260c0ebe8ac10f66e0577eba677888b)
(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/9HQsXCZnAtetE0ljV23iJw--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTk2MDtoPTU0MA--/https://s.yimg.com/uu/api/res/1.2/ivDiwjgHodrmS0LS8vz51w--~B/aD0zNDI7dz02MDg7YXBwaWQ9eXRhY2h5b24-/https://media.zenfs.com/en/us.abcnews.go.com/ebc8e13900caa0f74acfb636fed6bb39)
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Not sure that really adds anything or is anything illuminating. Never in my post did I imply they were completely unarmed or they randomly showed up.
Maybe you're not the only person who posts here.
Maybe others here have said, on more than one occasion, that the rioters were unarmed and there was no plan.
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Maybe you're not the only person who posts here.
Maybe others here have said, on more than one occasion, that the rioters were unarmed and there was no plan.
Seemed directly in response to the point discussion Lenny and I were trying to have and not wild conspiracy theories or red herrings from some of the usual characters. But ok
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You're leaving out the Willard Hotel group assembled Jan 6 to coordinate events.
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Seemed directly in response to the point discussion Lenny and I were trying to have and not wild conspiracy theories or red herrings from some of the usual characters. But ok
If I were replying to you, I would have .... wait for it ... replied to you.
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You're leaving out the Willard Hotel group assembled Jan 6 to coordinate events.
Yes, somewhat intentionally. It is extremely well established that a "war room" was assembled at the Williard for days in advance, but there isn't yet much documented proof about what they specifically were doing. It is speculated that they were involved in the coordination, but rather than include something that is so far unproven I choose not to bring it up.
Of course, the obvious question is why they needed a war room for what was supposed to be a largely ceremonial process of certifying the electoral count. But we know the answer to that in the form of the Eastman memo which laid out all the various paths they were trying to take to overturn the election.
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It may be shocking to you, but it’s ok to have different viewpoints on it while still be “repulsed” by it.
It may be shocking to you, but there aren't "ok different viewpoints" regarding the violent coup attempt of 1/6/21.
Even Cancun Cruz called 'em "terrorists" multiple times before he had to throw himself on The Altar of Tucker and beg forgiveness for having had the audacity to tell the truth for once in his life.
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I don’t think it does, cause I can’t broad brush it all. I agree with the general BLM mindset and movement 1000%. I also don’t give a pass to what happened underneath my apartment at the time in NYC where 3 residents of my building got punched in the face/head and countless stores/windows were broken into or demolished. Those weren't people with righteous indignation, that was awful people using collective anger as an excuse and opportunity for their version of the Purge.
I may misunderstand what you are saying, so apologies if I miss the mark. I don't think you should paint with a broad brush (which is why I differentiated between people who are legitimately outraged and opportunists), but I don't think that means you dismiss this point just because it is difficult to differentiate between the two. The problem when people bring up BLM rioters when the 1/6ers are discussed is that the opportunists are a small population co-opting something with a positive intent for their own purposes. What happened on 1/6 was exactly what those people intended.
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“Burned down” was hyperbolic - burned up was more like it. Estimates of damages from arson and looting between$1.5 and 2 billion. “Scores” (40+) also appears to be - hard to get a definitive number. The lowest estimate I’ve seen is between 12 and 19. Between 700 and 1000 policemen were injured.
Our Company had 32 stores burnt down and destroyed . Locations all of over the Midwest and Mid South , were we were not the only stores targeted .
Over 300 people lost their jobs. We are still trying to get insurance to pay for the losses which are well into the millions.
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Our Company had 32 stores burnt down and destroyed . Locations all of over the Midwest and Mid South , were we were not the only stores targeted .
Over 300 people lost their jobs. We are still trying to get insurance to pay for the losses which are well into the millions.
That sucks, 9-9-9. I hope your company is able to be made whole again and that those who lost their jobs have been able to find suitable work.
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If I were replying to you, I would have .... wait for it ... replied to you.
EDIT: Not worth it
I may misunderstand what you are saying, so apologies if I miss the mark. I don't think you should paint with a broad brush (which is why I differentiated between people who are legitimately outraged and opportunists), but I don't think that means you dismiss this point just because it is difficult to differentiate between the two. The problem when people bring up BLM rioters when the 1/6ers are discussed is that the opportunists are a small population co-opting something with a positive intent for their own purposes. What happened on 1/6 was exactly what those people intended.
I guess we differ on "small population". I don't think it was a small number (say 5%). I think there were opportunists, but I also think there were a lot of "this makes me mad so im gonna do what I want", which is made a lot easier when you can follow the lead of said opportunists. Does that completely negate the message or the movement? Not even close. But I don't think glossing over it is right nor is immediately comparing any criticism of it to 1/6.
There is no defending 1/6ers, they are deplorable losers, pathetic at best, criminal scumbags at worst. But I just think there is this gap in the BLM riot discussions. People trying to equalize the two (wrong), which are then met by people who defend (with a broad brush) everything that happened due to the overall message and intent (also wrong). I guess its just the natural extreme polarization of everything these days.
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If 1/6 wasn't a planned event then 45 absolutely incited a riot and insurrection. Hey, I have something really creative to chant! "LOCK HIM UP! LOCK HIM UP!"
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If 1/6 wasn't a planned event then 45 absolutely incited a riot and insurrection. Hey, I have something really creative to chant! "LOCK HIM UP! LOCK HIM UP!"
For sure. I can’t keep track of all the laws he broke while being president. It’s impressive, actually
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EDIT: Not worth it
I guess we differ on "small population". I don't think it was a small number (say 5%). I think there were opportunists, but I also think there were a lot of "this makes me mad so im gonna do what I want", which is made a lot easier when you can follow the lead of said opportunists. Does that completely negate the message or the movement? Not even close. But I don't think glossing over it is right nor is immediately comparing any criticism of it to 1/6.
There is no defending 1/6ers, they are deplorable losers, pathetic at best, criminal scumbags at worst. But I just think there is this gap in the BLM riot discussions. People trying to equalize the two (wrong), which are then met by people who defend (with a broad brush) everything that happened due to the overall message and intent (also wrong). I guess its just the natural extreme polarization of everything these days.
How do you feel about the reverse (which is actually what happened in this thread)?
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If 1/6 wasn't a planned event then 45 absolutely incited a riot and insurrection. Hey, I have something really creative to chant! "LOCK HIM UP! LOCK HIM UP!"
It was both planned and he incited the insurrection. A last desperate gasp when their other machinations did not come to fruition.
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You are quickly becoming like shoothoops and his bat signal of anything St Louis related.
Projection is undefeated.
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Clicking on this thread, I see group think is alive and well.
There are good, bad, indifferent police.
There are good, bad, indifferent military.
There are good, bad indifferent doctors, nurses, paramedics, social workers, you name it.
The hope is that you encounter the good ones as much as possible in any category.
Every situation and example is unique and different and is to be examined as such.
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How do you feel about the reverse (which is actually what happened in this thread)?
Its also bad. Criticism of each has tons of merited and should be addressed as such, without the need to drag the other in and say "WELL THIS HAPPENED TOO". Ive never defended, downplayed, whatever the word to use when it comes to 1/6.
Projection is undefeated.
Do you have that saved on your desktop for easy access?
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Do you have that saved on your desktop for easy access?
I mean, Zigs makes it easy. He loves to call out hypocrisy but also one of the largest offenders.