Hurricane Harvey

[forgetful]

I leave this here and let this be a reference as to how the rest of your post is wrong.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/theoval/2013/05/03/obama-boehner-brendan-buck-permission-structure/2132583/

If any of the people using those words in your article were scientists and used it in a science discussion, I'd be equally critical.  Obama and others using that phrase would be better served using simpler words too. 

Not sure what that article has to do with any of the actual science, climate change or Harvey, which were the topics of discussion. 

In the grand scheme of things though, using fancy words, or arguing with someone about the science of climate change is not going to help the millions who are suffering from this disaster. 

[warriorchick]

Not all non-profits.  Organizations classified under Section 501(c)(3) of the IRS Code.  That is pretty much all charities.

501(c)(6) organizations, like the local chamber of commerce, is a non-profit where deductions are not tax deductible.

Summary:

https://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=content.view&cpid=1559

Not all. 

Non-profit corporations are established under state corporate laws, so it's a matter to be dealt with by state officials (usually the Secretary of State).

To be able to accept tax-deductible donations, the corporation needs to apply for exempt status through the IRS.  Many non-profit corporations are granted exempt status, but it certainly isn't automatic.

ETA: Just read down to Sultan's post, which covers some of this....

I believe I had already said that in a simpler way, but thanks for the mansplanation, fellas.   

[mu03eng]

If any of the people using those words in your article were scientists and used it in a science discussion, I'd be equally critical.  Obama and others using that phrase would be better served using simpler words too. 

Not sure what that article has to do with any of the actual science, climate change or Harvey, which were the topics of discussion. 

In the grand scheme of things though, using fancy words, or arguing with someone about the science of climate change is not going to help the millions who are suffering from this disaster.

If you can't recognize that my usage of permission structure was in a sociology context and by extension science based then i don't think we have anything to really discuss.

Your main argument seems to be that because I used big boy words that I can't possibly know what I'm talking about. There are no things in your refutation that contain things in science we call facts so the words I used are the least of your issues.

Here's the challenge to you....you claim that the impact of climate change on the intensity of Harvey can be quantified. By all means, quantify it. Choose a metric and provide the evidence. I'm more than willing to stand corrected if you.can quantify it.

[rocket surgeon]

damn it!  i was just going to turn 'er in and watch some golf channel, but quantification of climate change(aka global warming)on the intensity of  harvey?  this ought to be good

[Pakuni]

After, once again, getting thrashed in his own thread, the OP changed his name yet again

Maybe he's just a fan of bad pizza and sexual harassment.

[forgetful]

If you can't recognize that my usage of permission structure was in a sociology context and by extension science based then i don't think we have anything to really discuss.

Your main argument seems to be that because I used big boy words that I can't possibly know what I'm talking about. There are no things in your refutation that contain things in science we call facts so the words I used are the least of your issues.

Here's the challenge to you....you claim that the impact of climate change on the intensity of Harvey can be quantified. By all means, quantify it. Choose a metric and provide the evidence. I'm more than willing to stand corrected if you.can quantify it.

Frankly, I don't care how the phrase is used.  I think using complex words when simpler ones can work is pointless.  As I said, I'd criticize Obama or anyone else for the same thing. It is immaterial though, throw out my criticism of that and I thoroughly refuted your statements.  Not a single argument of mine was remotely dependent on that criticism...it was a statement.

As for your challenge.  Frankly, there are hundreds if not thousands of papers that quantify this exact thing, conducted by world experts on climate change.  I'm not going to reinvent the wheel (especially given that I am not an expert in climate change), when you have apparently dismissed these volumes of research.  Here are three such articles chosen at random.  They have quantified it, period.  If you want to say their efforts/methods are invalid, write your own paper, get it peer reviewed and get it published instead of just posting about how such things are impossible/stupid on an anonymous message board.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10584-017-1902-7

http://www.nature.com/nclimate/journal/v2/n3/full/nclimate1357.html?foxtrotcallback=true

http://science.sciencemag.org/content/356/6345/1362.full?ref=finzine.com%20

And I will reiterate that you seem to want to reduce this to "causing Harvey" or "causing specific flooding" when there is no one making such claims in reference to climate change.  Everyone is saying that climate change exacerbates conditions that allows storms like Harvey to form, and increases resulting damage from such a storm.  Experts show that those factors are quantifiable and have a significant effect on the probability that they occur.

Now for my final statement on climate change.

In the grand scheme of things though, using fancy words, or arguing with someone about the science of climate change is not going to help the millions who are suffering from this disaster.  You can have the last word/words, I'm going to take Rocket's recommendation and turn on the golf channel, before saying some prayers for those affected by Harvey.

[mu03eng]

Frankly, I don't care how the phrase is used.  I think using complex words when simpler ones can work is pointless.  As I said, I'd criticize Obama or anyone else for the same thing. It is immaterial though, throw out my criticism of that and I thoroughly refuted your statements.  Not a single argument of mine was remotely dependent on that criticism...it was a statement.

Could you illustrate for me a simpler term for explaining the concept of permission structure/mechanics?

Frankly, I don't care how the phrase is used.  I think using complex words when simpler ones can work is pointless.  As I said, I'd criticize Obama or anyone else for the same thing. It is immaterial though, throw out my criticism of that and I thoroughly refuted your statements.  Not a single argument of mine was remotely dependent on that criticism...it was a statement.

As for your challenge.  Frankly, there are hundreds if not thousands of papers that quantify this exact thing, conducted by world experts on climate change.  I'm not going to reinvent the wheel (especially given that I am not an expert in climate change), when you have apparently dismissed these volumes of research.  Here are three such articles chosen at random.  They have quantified it, period.  If you want to say their efforts/methods are invalid, write your own paper, get it peer reviewed and get it published instead of just posting about how such things are impossible/stupid on an anonymous message board.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10584-017-1902-7

http://www.nature.com/nclimate/journal/v2/n3/full/nclimate1357.html?foxtrotcallback=true

http://science.sciencemag.org/content/356/6345/1362.full?ref=finzine.com%20

I'm concerned for your science career that you can't tell the difference between someone asking you to quantify the impact of a phenomenon on a single event versus quantifying the impact of the phenomenon itself. Your articles are doing the latter, you stated that the former was what the 538 article was doing and it was what I was challenging you to do. Pointing at single events and saying "see, climate change" is just dumb(is that simpler?).

And I will reiterate that you seem to want to reduce this to "causing Harvey" or "causing specific flooding" when there is no one making such claims in reference to climate change.  Everyone is saying that climate change exacerbates conditions that allows storms like Harvey to form, and increases resulting damage from such a storm.  Experts show that those factors are quantifiable and have a significant effect on the probability that they occur.

You actually kind of do in response to my posting the link, but whatevs. Either way it seems like we agree, climate change had some sort of impact with Harvey but it can't be determined what it is so as scientists we can't go "see, climate change".

The irony in all of this discussion is that if you weren't so caught up in ideology and had bothered to ask I would have told you I believe climate change is 100%, humans are involved in causing it, and that we need to do something about it. Instead you decided to assume I had a certain position because I challenged the thought that the results of a storm might have been the same with or without climate change.

Yes I'm being a jacka$$ in my responses to you, frankly thats because the way you approach this type of topic pisses me off. Your casual dismissal and condescension of people who don't have your purity of thought makes all of these discussions impossible. Yes, there are dumb people out there like Pakuni says, but there are also people who can be influenced with a rational discussion but it's just not possible because of people like you.

[GGGG]

I believe I had already said that in a simpler way, but thanks for the mansplanation, fellas.   

Actually you weren't completely correct.  There are non-profit organizations, that aren't defined as charities, that can accept donations that are tax deductible.

[warriorchick]

Actually you weren't completely correct.  There are non-profit organizations, that aren't defined as charities, that can accept donations that are tax deductible.

Defined by whom?  I am not trying to argue with you, I just think we are talking about semantics here.

[GGGG]

Defined by whom?  I am not trying to argue with you, I just think we are talking about semantics here.

The IRS.  A non-profit cemetery association isn't by definition a charity, but you can receive a tax deduction for making a donation to one.

And yes we are talking about semantics.  That's what we do here!

[warriorchick]

The IRS.  A non-profit cemetery association isn't by definition a charity, but you can receive a tax deduction for making a donation to one.

And yes we are talking about semantics.  That's what we do here!

Anyhoo, that is beside the point I was trying to make. Should someone who runs an organization with annual revenues in the hundreds of millions  like the American Heart Association or Habitat for Humanity be able to afford a $50,000 car?  The answer is "Yes".

[GGGG]

Anyhoo, that is beside the point I was trying to make. Should someone who runs an organization with annual revenues in the hundreds of millions  like the American Heart Association or Habitat for Humanity be able to afford a $50,000 car?  The answer is "Yes".

I agree. 

[mu03eng]

Anyhoo, that is beside the point I was trying to make. Should someone who runs an organization with annual revenues in the hundreds of millions  like the American Heart Association or Habitat for Humanity be able to afford a $50,000 car?  The answer is "Yes".

I don't disagree, but my anecdote was not in reference to something to the scale of a charity like that. Those are CEO like roles. My example involved a charity that was relatively small and unique to Milwaukee with the annual charitable giving at less than a million dollars.

To be completely fair, for all I know this person had a large inheritance or it was a gift or whatever....so it may not even be a good example of what I was trying to say.

Bottom line, just like corporations there are people involved with charities that are making money of the donations and labor of others that is disproportionate to their impact.

[Benny B]

Luckily, there are hundreds, perhaps thousands, of "one persons" out there right now doing everything they can to save lives.

Let's put it another way...

Politics are the playground of ignorance and arrogance.  Fortunately, at least one person is working while hundreds of others play.

[warriorchick]

I don't disagree, but my anecdote was not in reference to something to the scale of a charity like that. Those are CEO like roles. My example involved a charity that was relatively small and unique to Milwaukee with the annual charitable giving at less than a million dollars.

To be completely fair, for all I know this person had a large inheritance or it was a gift or whatever....so it may not even be a good example of what I was trying to say.

Bottom line, just like corporations there are people involved with charities that are making money of the donations and labor of others that is disproportionate to their impact.

And if they are, you can always find out here. 

http://www.guidestar.org/Home.aspx

This website has the tax returns of every not-for-profit organization, which include the compensation of all the officers, directors, and highly-compensated employees.

[DegenerateDish]

Irma is going to be a monster of a storm.

[reinko]

I don't disagree, but my anecdote was not in reference to something to the scale of a charity like that. Those are CEO like roles. My example involved a charity that was relatively small and unique to Milwaukee with the annual charitable giving at less than a million dollars.

To be completely fair, for all I know this person had a large inheritance or it was a gift or whatever....so it may not even be a good example of what I was trying to say.

Bottom line, just like corporations there are people involved with charities that are making money of the donations and labor of others that is disproportionate to their impact.

The Executive Director of a nonprofit, in the MKE, with a budget of around million dollars, in my 13+ years in non profits pulls in around 75K.  Take home after taxes, $4200 or so a month.  Lease on a 50K car is around 800-900 a month...while not the best financial decision, certainly doable.

I'm guessing, are you trying to argue that financially they shouldn't be a able to afford it, because NP's should keep their salaries artificially lower b/c we do "charity", or are you arguing that because of optics, someone driving around in brand new Audi convertible is a bad look to prospective donors and stakeholders?  I agree on the 2nd point.  At my org, our senior leadership purposely choose not the flashiest of things as a matter of optics, but if you are arguing that salaries should be lower because of the industry we work in, I gotta disagree.

[Benny B]

The IRS.  A non-profit cemetery association isn't by definition a charity, but you can receive a tax deduction for making a donation to one.

And yes we are talking about semantics.  That's what we do here!

Actually, it's probably worth talking about semantics... I couldn't tell you how many people I've run into who don't know the difference between non-profit, tax-exempt, and qualified organizations.

Short Version: IRS Publication 78.  Nothing else matters... if the organization isn't listed in Pub 78, your donation is NOT deductible unless it's a religious organization or gov't entity.

[brewcity77]

I wanted to put forth a plea on behalf of two charitable organizations in the Houston area that we work with. Currently, my wife and I are fostering two dogs that came from these organizations in the Houston area.

Hooves and Hounds Rescue and Rehab is located west of Houston in Sheridan, Texas. It provides a safe environment for neglected & abused canines & equines. They are currently providing care for 68 dogs. The dogs are currently safe but because of flooding there is no way to get in or out of their sanctuary.
 
Lola’s Lucky Day Rescue is based in Houston, Texas. They help homeless dogs in an area suffering from over-population. The foster homes & dogs are currently safe, but are running low on supplies.  is working to organize a supply trip from Wisconsin soon.

Any help is appreciated. Links are included above for any financial donations. Both Hooves and Hounds & Lola’s Lucky Day are 501c3 organizations & all donations are tax deductible. If you are in the Wisconsin area & can donate goods such as dog food, puppy pads, towels/blankets, and/or cleaning supplies, contact New Beginnings Shih Tzu Rescue or visit our Facebook page for more information.
 
Contact/Donation Info

http://www.hoovesandhounds.com/Donate.html
https://www.lolasluckyday.com/donate
Email wi.lolaluckyday@gmail.com
http://www.nbstr.org/id6.html

Supplies Needed

•   Dog Food
•   Puppy Pads
•   Towels
•   Blankets
•   Cleaning Supplies

[mu03eng]

The Executive Director of a nonprofit, in the MKE, with a budget of around million dollars, in my 13+ years in non profits pulls in around 75K.  Take home after taxes, $4200 or so a month.  Lease on a 50K car is around 800-900 a month...while not the best financial decision, certainly doable.

I'm guessing, are you trying to argue that financially they shouldn't be a able to afford it, because NP's should keep their salaries artificially lower b/c we do "charity", or are you arguing that because of optics, someone driving around in brand new Audi convertible is a bad look to prospective donors and stakeholders?  I agree on the 2nd point.  At my org, our senior leadership purposely choose not the flashiest of things as a matter of optics, but if you are arguing that salaries should be lower because of the industry we work in, I gotta disagree.

Primarily the later. However, my point was I suspected this person was pulling more than $75k as salary and used the car as an example.

[4everwarriors]

50k kars ain't no big thang, hey?

[forgetful]

Irma is going to be a monster of a storm.

Praying it turns into open water (most common for September).  But on a similar trajectory to devastating september hurricanes Hugo and the 1900 Galveston monster.

[warriorchick]

Primarily the later. However, my point was I suspected this person was pulling more than $75k as salary and used the car as an example.

Well, it is easy enough to find out. If you want you can PM me his name and the charity he works for and I can have your answer in 5 minutes.

[tower912]

50k kars ain't no big thang, hey?

They are for us little people.

[HouWarrior]

I wanted to put forth a plea on behalf of two charitable organizations in the Houston area that we work with. Currently, my wife and I are fostering two dogs that came from these organizations in the Houston area.

Hooves and Hounds Rescue and Rehab is located west of Houston in Sheridan, Texas. It provides a safe environment for neglected & abused canines & equines. They are currently providing care for 68 dogs. The dogs are currently safe but because of flooding there is no way to get in or out of their sanctuary.
 
Lola’s Lucky Day Rescue is based in Houston, Texas. They help homeless dogs in an area suffering from over-population. The foster homes & dogs are currently safe, but are running low on supplies.  is working to organize a supply trip from Wisconsin soon.

Any help is appreciated. Links are included above for any financial donations. Both Hooves and Hounds & Lola’s Lucky Day are 501c3 organizations & all donations are tax deductible. If you are in the Wisconsin area & can donate goods such as dog food, puppy pads, towels/blankets, and/or cleaning supplies, contact New Beginnings Shih Tzu Rescue or visit our Facebook page for more information.
 
Contact/Donation Info

http://www.hoovesandhounds.com/Donate.html
https://www.lolasluckyday.com/donate
Email wi.lolaluckyday@gmail.com
http://www.nbstr.org/id6.html

Supplies Needed

•   Dog Food
•   Puppy Pads
•   Towels
•   Blankets
•   Cleaning Supplies

Thanks for this.

My wife has been involved in pet rescue work for years and while I was up helping at the area shelter, she insisted on driving every where to get pets out. It is important... the flooding disorients pets and their ability to locate....thousands will be lost forever

Floods have an interesting by product. Wild animal displacement. We had a falcon in our front yard this morning, and a buck deer ...flooded out of the Addicks reservoir south of us...was seen walking in our subdivision.You may have seen pics of how red fire ants will form a raft and float to safety. Gators and water snakes are being found in the flood homes...and a coyote is now hanging around our corner convenience store.  Man and beast...we are all in this together, I guess.