Blackhawks

[Hards Alumni]

I understand that you are not referring to me and just making generalizations about people from my city of origin.

I think we've about beaten this to death  but I'm going to have to stand by my point of: if you didn't think it was an insult you wouldn't use it like one. 

I don't see why you are assuming i'm bent out of shape.  If people get to you so easily that you feel the need to try and look up attendance figures to prove some point I think it's fair to ask if you grew up with a bunch of girls... Not that there is anything wrong with that.

I didn't look up attendance figures, that was someone else.

I didn't use it like one, I called them fair weather fans, which they are, and they deny it.  I go on to ask them how they aren't, and all I get is the excuses, etc.  I just prefer people to be honest with themselves.  It is sort of an insult (a minor one) to the real fan base that the FWFs pretend they aren't.

[damuts222]

the blackhawks five minutes are.....up.

moving on.....

 Yet you continue to post on the topic?

[🏀]

Here's my question about fair-weather-ness. Why is someone a bad fan if they don't want to watch bad teams?

The Cubs are terrible this year, I haven't watched a full 9 innings this season and I didn't buy any tickets. Why? They play bad baseball and have athletes that are not very likable. Does that make me a fair-weather fan? I still check the score everyday, but my attention is elsewhere.

What is to be said of someone that continues to support a organization that won't pay athletes, alienates the fans, and requires the fan to be at the stadium to watch the team? Idiots, really.

[RawdogDX]

Apologies, i thought that was you.  

You are talking about individuals i don't know, and messages you aren't quoting.  I personally think that if I said, go blackhawks on facebook and then had someone say whatever fwf.  That they are being rude for no good reason.
If they say: "My long years of suffering is over.  My life is now complete and I can die happy because of this."  Then that is a different story.

I just don't think it's that cut and dry, mainly because the definition of a fwf isn't well defined.  I think that term should be reserved for people who don't follow the team at all and then pretend they do.  You say that your friends don't, but I grew up walking distance from their stadium, went to about 2 dozen games over my lifetime, check nhl standings every month, read any black hawks related front page news and never talked about them on this form or facebook till they won.  (I still wouldn't call myself 'long suffering')
You would assume, if we were friends, than I'm a 100% bandwagon fan.

And you are smart enough to know that this is no differnet in Chicago from other places, but clearly your countrymen (ie: wadesworld) don't all agree.  
So in conclusion, I agree with pretty much everything you say but I think that it's silly to defend FWF as being ok and perfectly normal, but then use that as a retort.  And then even more silly to get your panties in a bunch when people respond defensively.  
Get more creative.  Perhaps: good for you, too bad you suck in baseball twice and football.  Or: nice job, why is it you can only win titles in sports we don't play.

[Hards Alumni]

Apologies, i thought that was you.  

You are talking about individuals i don't know, and messages you aren't quoting.  I personally think that if I said, go blackhawks on facebook and then had someone say whatever fwf.  That they are being rude for no good reason.
If they say: "My long years of suffering is over.  My life is now complete and I can die happy because of this."  Then that is a different story.

I just don't think it's that cut and dry, mainly because the definition of a fwf isn't well defined.  I think that term should be reserved for people who don't follow the team at all and then pretend they do.  You say that your friends don't, but I grew up walking distance from their stadium, went to about 2 dozen games over my lifetime, check nhl standings every month, read any black hawks related front page news and never talked about them on this form or facebook till they won.  (I still wouldn't call myself 'long suffering')
You would assume, if we were friends, than I'm a 100% bandwagon fan.

And you are smart enough to know that this is no differnet in Chicago from other places, but clearly your countrymen (ie: wadesworld) don't all agree.  
So in conclusion, I agree with pretty much everything you say but I think that it's silly to defend FWF as being ok and perfectly normal, but then use that as a retort.  And then even more silly to get your panties in a bunch when people respond defensively.  
Get more creative.  Perhaps: good for you, too bad you suck in baseball twice and football.  Or: nice job, why is it you can only win titles in sports we don't play.

No, i just like raining on other people's parades, especially, since its usually my friends, and they deserve the ribbing.  The type of people who if I asked them what offsides was or how to pronounce Toews in March would have responded with, "Its when the defense is over the line of scrimmage when the ball is snapped", and "TOWS?  Why are you asking me this?".  You at least pay some attention, and don't just follow when its the finals.  I'm not saying that is my definition, but some of my friends, man... they fit even the loosest definition.

oh, and PLEASE don't lump me in with wadesworld... to say he is biased would be putting it mildly.

[MUBurrow]

Here's my question about fair-weather-ness. Why is someone a bad fan if they don't want to watch bad teams?

The Cubs are terrible this year, I haven't watched a full 9 innings this season and I didn't buy any tickets. Why? They play bad baseball and have athletes that are not very likable. Does that make me a fair-weather fan? I still check the score everyday, but my attention is elsewhere.

Coming from a Cubs fan, this might be my favorite self-unaware post of all time.

[Lennys Tap]

I started basically memorizing the sports page shortly after learning to read. At different stages of my life (and for a myriad of reasons) I have been a "fan" of countless team. For the Texas Westerns and the George Masons my loyalty was limited to a few weeks in one particular March. For my beloved Marquette Warriors and Chicago White Sox it's a passion a more well adjusted person might find curious. All other "team loyalties" fall somewhere in between. I've always derived what seemed to me, at least, an appropriate amount of pain or pleasure from these team's failures and successes. I followed sports too closely to be ever deemed a "fair weather fan", but the joy of, say, a Blackhawks' Stanley Cup, Bears' Super Bowl or Bulls' NBA titled paled in comparison to Marquette's 1977 National Title or the White Sox' 2005 World Series Championship. Those were two instances where the happiness stayed with me for literally months. But the point of all of this is that not for a second did I feel my joy was diminished or compromised because some fans arrived late to the party. So to people who begrudge casual fans who jump on a bandwagon for a brief, funfilled ride - lighten up.

[HansMoleman]

the blackhawks five minutes are.....up.

moving on.....

Methinks they might just be getting warmed up.

[MU B2002]

damuts...

In nashville you can get upper deck for $15 and on the glass for $85, and even this year in the playoffs i was given 10 rows off the ice and face value was still under $100. You are right about fan support, if uppers cost that much for the predators there would be about 1000 people at the games (and they would be all corporate seats).

[mu-rara]

It's pretty obvious that you have no idea about the history of the Blackhawks over the past 15 years.  While the fans came back to the team much quicker than expected because of the team improving and having some star power, it was going to happen when "old man Wirtz" kicked the bucket.  From my perspective, the fans started turning a back on the Blackhawks when they traded Roenick for salary reasons... Chelios was next to go.  Then Hawkvision (a paper view subscription to be able to watch the Hawks) pissed off more fans.  Blacking out the home games were the last straw for most.
MU rara...  there's alot more to it than front running.  That's an insult to a town that has averaged the top attendance through many lean years since Jordan left.  An insult to Cub and Sox fans despite 100 + years of not winning the big one.  I love Wisconsin and Milwaukee... but I'm not gonna insult your Brewers and Bucks fans.  But I have to admit... I can't stand the Packers!  But that's because I'm a Bears fan (regardless if we win or lose), not unlike Chicago's phenomenal sports fans.

Dude,

If you are a long time Hawks fan, cool, enjoy.  I have no issue with you.   My opinion of Chicago sports fans was cultivated as an undergrad.  I had a good buddy (still a good buddy)  who was all Bears all the time until the Packers started kicking a**.  Then  he was a Cub fan, until the Sox started winning, Now he is the fan of an undisclosed NBA team, who is significantly better than the Bulls.  I noticed Bear attendance going in the toilet when the Bears were sucking, then I noticed Blackhawk attendance going through the roof.   I'm just saying, put it all together.

[JWags85]

Dude,

If you are a long time Hawks fan, cool, enjoy.  I have no issue with you.   My opinion of Chicago sports fans was cultivated as an undergrad.  I had a good buddy (still a good buddy)  who was all Bears all the time until the Packers started kicking a**.  Then  he was a Cub fan, until the Sox started winning, Now he is the fan of an undisclosed NBA team, who is significantly better than the Bulls.  I noticed Bear attendance going in the toilet when the Bears were sucking, then I noticed Blackhawk attendance going through the roof.   I'm just saying, put it all together.

This is the proverbial powder keg.  You basically insinuated that the entire Chicago fanbase is fairweather because of a kid you knew in undergrad, who was from out of state and probably proud of the fact that he was from Chicago.  He may not have been a big sports fan, but that was his way of showing hometown pride.  I'm not excusing what he is doing, cause it is kind of lame, but can we stop knocking an entire city of millions of people, many of whom are passionate sports fans, because of some kids who were idiots when they were 18-21?

You wonder why this is getting so heated and chippy?  Its not because of the assessment that some Blackhawks fans are fairweather and new to the game, which is totally true, but rather than an entire city is fairweather and the Blackhawks are the newest indicator of it.  Cause thats tremendous BS.

And I don't know what your Bears attendance declining metric is.  Their attendance has been pretty static around the 60K mark for the last 20 years despite minimal actual success, and the last 3 years almost every game has been sold out despite not sniffing the playoffs since the Super Bown in 06.  And mind you Soldier Field only seats 61500.

[MarquetteFan94]

Not sure how this thread got hijacked into a Chicago fan debate.  It would be interesting to see how many people criticizing Chicago/Blackhawks fans are from WI....I'm guessing pretty close to 100%....which will only add fuel to the fire of the "inferiority complex" circular debate...which, like any other, will never end with one side agreeing with the other....but always passionate.

I've said it before, there are a lot of WI people/sports fans who are indifferent to Chicago sports but, IMO, the majority get a lot of enjoyment from Chicago teams losing.....whereas, again IMO, most Chicago fans could care less about what goes on with WI sports....with the Packers being the exception....see 80+ year rivalry.

I guarantee that if the Hawks lost to Philly there would've been pot shots taken by WI people as "just another Chicago losing team"...blah, blah.  Now that they won, Chicago is full of fairweather/bandwagon fans...even though there are four generations of Hawks fans in this town....oh, and they have no NHL team of their own...which may be obvious to some.

Fact is, no other US city....none.....has an Original 6 NHL franchise, a founding NFL team, and charter members of the NL and AL in MLB....then of course you can throw in the Bulls 6 Championships.

Some people could care less about Chicago sports, some may be envious but for anyone to not appreciate how deeply rooted the sports are in this town is just ignorant.

Anyway.....congrats Blackhawks and all Chicago fans....bandwagon or not!  This last week has been a blast!  The scene at Wrigley on Sunday night was unreal.

I'm sure this will end this debate. 

[MUBurrow]

Fact is, no other US city....none.....has an Original 6 NHL franchise, a founding NFL team, and charter members of the NL and AL in MLB....then of course you can throw in the Bulls 6 Championships.

So? I think this is the whole point. It is unfeasible to be the level of fan of all these franchises that many Chicagoans claim to be.  It is extremely difficult to be a legitimate passionate diehard of two professional franchises, let alone to stake a passionate claim to one in every major sport.  Its been my experience that Chicagoans claim a general passion for anything that says Chicago in front of it.  This gets irritating to other fans (namely WI fans for the purposes of this argument) because you don't see a lot of Wisconsinites that claim to have immense pride and devotion to the Packers, Bucks and Brewers.  You see a lot of MKEians who love the Brewers and Bucks.  Generally a lot of wisconsinites love the Packers and Brewers.  But to claim that simply because all those franchises reside in Chicago and have great history, that Chicagoans are somehow entitled to count themselves as breathing each of those teams is the exact attitude that irks so many passionate fans of other teams.  The fact that WI doesn't have a hockey team and few are really into the Bucks are exactly what pisses Brewers fans off about Cubs fans. As the only game in town, we don't get to pick whatever team happens to have Milwaukee in front of its moniker as well as a winning record when deciding which tickets to buy.

[MarquetteFan94]

So? I think this is the whole point. It is unfeasible to be the level of fan of all these franchises that many Chicagoans claim to be.  It is extremely difficult to be a legitimate passionate diehard of two professional franchises, let alone to stake a passionate claim to one in every major sport.  Its been my experience that Chicagoans claim a general passion for anything that says Chicago in front of it.  This gets irritating to other fans (namely WI fans for the purposes of this argument) because you don't see a lot of Wisconsinites that claim to have immense pride and devotion to the Packers, Bucks and Brewers.  You see a lot of MKEians who love the Brewers and Bucks.  Generally a lot of wisconsinites love the Packers and Brewers.  But to claim that simply because all those franchises reside in Chicago and have great history, that Chicagoans are somehow entitled to count themselves as breathing each of those teams is the exact attitude that irks so many passionate fans of other teams.  The fact that WI doesn't have a hockey team and few are really into the Bucks are exactly what pisses Brewers fans off about Cubs fans. As the only game in town, we don't get to pick whatever team happens to have Milwaukee in front of its moniker as well as a winning record when deciding which tickets to buy.

I'm not sure what breathing a team means.  Have you ever met a sports fan from Boston?

It sure sounds like you're comparing the Milwaukee sports scene (and WI's in general) to Chicago.....please don't....I wasn't.

If you can't see how it's possible to avidly follow "local" teams in 3 (in Chicago's case 4) different sports then I can't help you.  It is nice to have the option.

Curious....do you believe it's possible to play all 4 sports growing up?  If so, it may not be difficult to see how following the teams of those sports in your home town would be something you'd be interested in....and becoming/creating a passionate fan....and something you take with you as an adult and hand down to your own kids.

Its been my experience that Chicagoans claim a general passion for anything that says Chicago in front of it.  This gets irritating to other fans (namely WI fans for the purposes of this argument) because you don't see a lot of Wisconsinites that claim to have immense pride and devotion to the Packers, Bucks and Brewers. 

Are you saying Chicagoans have pride in their city and the teams representing them?  Guilty.  We can't help the lack of devotion to the Bucks and Brewers....could be that history/generation thing I've mentioned.

The fact that WI doesn't have a hockey team and few are really into the Bucks are exactly what pisses Brewers fans off about Cubs fans.

Huh?  As a Brewers fan you get pissed at Cubs fans because WI doesn't have an NHL team and the Bucks have an ambivalent fan base?  Some could say this adds to the inferiority complex debate....I'm not....but some could.

So now I'm guilty of joining the circular debate that I've made fun of....awesome.

[JWags85]

So? I think this is the whole point. It is unfeasible to be the level of fan of all these franchises that many Chicagoans claim to be.  It is extremely difficult to be a legitimate passionate diehard of two professional franchises, let alone to stake a passionate claim to one in every major sport.  Its been my experience that Chicagoans claim a general passion for anything that says Chicago in front of it.  This gets irritating to other fans (namely WI fans for the purposes of this argument) because you don't see a lot of Wisconsinites that claim to have immense pride and devotion to the Packers, Bucks and Brewers.  You see a lot of MKEians who love the Brewers and Bucks.  Generally a lot of wisconsinites love the Packers and Brewers.  But to claim that simply because all those franchises reside in Chicago and have great history, that Chicagoans are somehow entitled to count themselves as breathing each of those teams is the exact attitude that irks so many passionate fans of other teams.  The fact that WI doesn't have a hockey team and few are really into the Bucks are exactly what pisses Brewers fans off about Cubs fans. As the only game in town, we don't get to pick whatever team happens to have Milwaukee in front of its moniker as well as a winning record when deciding which tickets to buy.

I am missing your point.  Are you honestly trying to say you can't be passionate about more than 2 teams?  That you are either a passionate fan or a fairweather?

I also don't think its any detriment to a city to slide attention towards certain teams.  I absolutely LOVE the Cubs and nearly got into a fistfight with my freshman year roommate (and very good friend) during the Bartman game, but I can openly say that the Cubs took a backseat to the Hawks during this run.  I am passionate about both teams, and being excited about one doesn't mean I have to be less excited about the other.  I don't see how its a zero sum game.  I don't think that is any reason for Brewers fans to hate me as a Cubs fan.  Thats ludicrous.

Paying more attention to one of your teams because they are in the midst of a historic championship run doesn't mean you aren't passionate about a different team or are rushing to put their fanship behind something because it had CHICAGO in front of it.  You are trying again to great levels of fanship and slide Chicago fans into a lower level based on bad interactions you have had it seems.  Excuse me while I go pick between the Bears, the Cubs, and the Blackhawks, not to mention Marquette basketball, cause I certainly can't be passionate about more than 2 teams.  Crap.  Thanks for informing me

[MDMU04]

The fact that WI doesn't have a hockey team and few are really into the Bucks are exactly what pisses Brewers fans off about Cubs fans. As the only game in town, we don't get to pick whatever team happens to have Milwaukee in front of its moniker as well as a winning record when deciding which tickets to buy.

Sorry if i'm not amused by your aggravation about Cubs fans picking and choosing between what teams they like, but I was too busy with 1,999,999 other people at the victory parade watching this:



Don't like having only two teams to cheer for?  Move somewhere else.  Until then, guess I'll listen to you cry about it.

[MUBurrow]

 wow geez perhaps the multitude of ladies doth protest too much.  what i am saying is that you would guess from a lot of Chicagoans zealous (over)reactions ::ahem:: that everyone had gone to hawks games in the 1960's on their grandpa's laps.  of course there is nothing wrong with enjoying the ride and taking in the parade and supporting a team.  it would be a damn shame if no one were at that parade.  i do think, however, that chicago often gives off the impression that whenever a team wins, that's the favorite team of everyone in the city.  chicago more than any other city seems to have a dissonance with how they are perceived and how they perceive themselves (except maybe Boston, as was noted). 

a couple of examples:

Don't like having only two teams to cheer for?  Move somewhere else.  Until then, guess I'll listen to you cry about it.

 Actually I, and many others, love only having a few teams to cheer for.  Its why I'm glad and have never regretted that MU doesn't have a football team. However to many, this is impossible to fathom.  More is always more, because there are more chances for parades. 

Are you saying Chicagoans have pride in their city and the teams representing them?  Guilty.  We can't help the lack of devotion to the Bucks and Brewers....could be that history/generation thing I've mentioned.

Sigh.  A Cubs fan emphasizing lack of devotion to the Brewers.  Shouldn't you be throwing beach balls out of the bleachers in Wrigglyville with your shirt off?


So while I may not have always eloquently stated my distaste, I don't think its ridiculous that a lot of people would be less than amused when a city that couldn't fill up a Hawks game if its life depended on it a couple of years ago is now stricken by Hawks mania.  Considering Wisconsin's rich hockey tradition  (remarkable youth participation, UW, hell the building of a hockey arena in its biggest city without a major team) the sudden onslaught of Hawks superfans shouldn't be expected to sit well.

[MarquetteFan94]

wow geez perhaps the multitude of ladies doth protest too much.  what i am saying is that you would guess from a lot of Chicagoans zealous (over)reactions ::ahem:: that everyone had gone to hawks games in the 1960's on their grandpa's laps.  of course there is nothing wrong with enjoying the ride and taking in the parade and supporting a team.  it would be a damn shame if no one were at that parade.  i do think, however, that chicago often gives off the impression that whenever a team wins, that's the favorite team of everyone in the city.  chicago more than any other city seems to have a dissonance with how they are perceived and how they perceive themselves (except maybe Boston, as was noted). 

a couple of examples:

 Actually I, and many others, love only having a few teams to cheer for.  Its why I'm glad and have never regretted that MU doesn't have a football team. However to many, this is impossible to fathom.  More is always more, because there are more chances for parades. 

Sigh.  A Cubs fan emphasizing lack of devotion to the Brewers.  Shouldn't you be throwing beach balls out of the bleachers in Wrigglyville with your shirt off?


So while I may not have always eloquently stated my distaste, I don't think its ridiculous that a lot of people would be less than amused when a city that couldn't fill up a Hawks game if its life depended on it a couple of years ago is now stricken by Hawks mania.  Considering Wisconsin's rich hockey tradition  (remarkable youth participation, UW, hell the building of a hockey arena in its biggest city without a major team) the sudden onslaught of Hawks superfans shouldn't be expected to sit well.

Man, you certainly take us on a meandering ride.......I guess I'll answer.....no, I don't think I should be throwing beach balls in Wrigley with my shirt off.    

More curiousity.....if it's not envy.....how does Chicago's "Hawks mania" or low attendance figures from 3 years ago have an affect on your life in WI? 

I would love one historic example....uno.....of any city with any of the major sports that doesn't give the impression that the championship winning team isn't the best thing going in that town....you see, that's actually the fun part of it.

[LON]

As annoying as "Hawks Mania" is, it doesn't hold a candle to the Boston fans that never heard of the Patriots until 2001...actually, it's kind of the same thing.

/throwing grenade and leaving room

[Moonboots]

Your state and every state that wins a title this year will be full of the same.  You just make up garbage about people from chicago because of your inferiority complex.  Pathetic really.

I stopped participating in this thread after this abomination.

There's nothing to stop any of us from defecting to Chicago sports if we wish, but I don't know why anyone would want to.

The Bears will eternally play second fiddle to a franchise from a city of 200,000. The Cubs, to the rest of the nation, are notorious for a culture of losing. The Brewers obviously have no more success to hang their hat on, but they'd need to continue this futility for another 60 years to match the Cubs. Seriously.

I at least have a soft spot for White Sox fans, who have to deal with the national Cubs love with the same incredulity as the rest of us.

And now this Blackhawks fiasco? Come on. You accuse us Wisconsinites of making rash generalizations about the sports fans in the city of Chicago based on this. We didn't have to. The attendance numbers did it for us.

If you like the more teams = more parades thing, more power to you, but it does breed front running.

[MDMU04]

A previous post from you stated:

"The fact that WI doesn't have a hockey team and few are really into the Bucks are exactly what pisses Brewers fans off about Cubs fans. As the only game in town, we don't get to pick whatever team happens to have Milwaukee in front of its moniker as well as a winning record when deciding which tickets to buy."

Now you just said:

Actually I, and many others, love only having a few teams to cheer for.  Its why I'm glad and have never regretted that MU doesn't have a football team. However to many, this is impossible to fathom.  More is always more, because there are more chances for parades. 

So which is it?  

You either enjoy and would rather have few teams to cheer for and wouldn't mind that other towns have a chance to cheer for more than two or three teams...

...Or it pisses you off as a Brewers fan that Cubs fans can "pick and choose" what team happens to have Chicago in front of it's moniker as well as a winning record when deciding which tickets to buy.

It can't be both.

You're just irritated because a team from Chicago won something and the FIBs got to have a parade and enjoy themselves.  What other explanation could you possibly have for it bothering you so much?

I hope the Bucks or Brewers have a massive parade that several hundreds of thousands of people show up at wearing the team's colors whenever it is that they win something.  It's a pretty awesome spectacle, and something that every sports fan should experience once in their lives.  

But just know this: When it happens, it's not gonna be all hard-core, grizzled, been through hell and back, Bucks/Brewers fans there standing next to you.

[Moonboots]

As annoying as "Hawks Mania" is, it doesn't hold a candle to the Boston fans that never heard of the Patriots until 2001...actually, it's kind of the same thing.

/throwing grenade and leaving room

...which is ridiculous, because I believe the Patriots are the only team to participate in a Super Bowl in EVERY decade since its inception.

[LON]

Sorry if i'm not amused by your aggravation about Cubs fans picking and choosing between what teams they like, but I was too busy with 1,999,999 other people at the victory parade watching this:

Honest question, how do they know 2,000,000 were there?  Does someone take tickets at the street?

[LON]

...which is ridiculous, because I believe the Patriots are the only team to participate in a Super Bowl in EVERY decade since its inception.

They didn't make it in the 70's

EDIT:  Lost in '86 to Da Bears, lost in '97 to the Pack, then they went on their run in the 2000s

[Moonboots]

They didn't make it in the 70's

Just checked, I stand corrected. I'm not sure where I heard that.