Real MLB Thread

[Dr. Blackheart]

everyone on twitter is looking at it on a 6 inch phone screen. If you didn't see it on TV then there's no point debating. You watching it on a normal tv screen with better resolution and size and it unquestionably hit the bat first. You can also hear it when they replayed the audio on tv.

That being said, I'm not surprised they didn't overturn it.

Almost 50% of MLB calls are overturned using slow motion, digital replay where you can zoom in and lose resolution. The Live Eye Test isn’t very accurate in these close calls, even amongst trained professionals.

[Dr. Blackheart]

more like:

brewers fans: It hit the bat first.
cubs and cardinals fans: take the blue and gold glasses off it clearly hit only his hand (which is clearly the only alternative given that it wouldn't hit the hand and bounce DOWN into the bat to then bounce UP to hit him in the shoulder). given the sound of the play this clearly isnt what happened.
everyone else in america: it hit the bat first but you certainly cant say theres clear, concise, indisputable video evidence so how it was called, either way, has to stand.

Yes, it’s an intra-divisional conspiracy to screw Brewers’ fans. We meet once a year in Aspen to chart out our plans with the MLB Umpiring staff to set the world order.

[jficke13]

Bummed with the result, but honestly they way exceeded my expectations.

They gambled that they would hit on Woodruff, Peralta, and Burnes in the rotation, they hit blackjack on one, and busted on the other two. Take 40% of the rotation out of the picture two weeks into April, follow that up with injuries, makeshift starters, and scotch tape and acquisitions and to still even be in the contention in September is more than I could have asked for. With other injuries (Yelich, Braun, Cain), underperformances (general nightmare seasons from Aguilar and Shaw), then stealing the second wild card becomes even more miraculous.

Looking ahead to next year I'm interested to see how the roster shakes out.

I hope Grandal and Milwaukee both exercise the mutual option on his contract for next year, but I wouldn't be surprised if he opted out and tried to find a longer-term deal. Similarly, I'd like to see Moustakas back on a short-term deal, because it's hard to roll into a season hoping for a bounceback from Shaw and no other contingency at 3rd.

Pomeranz and Lyles are free agents (I think), but they were both exceptional. I wonder what offers they get on the market. Same with Ray Black, who was hit or miss but can throw the absolute sin out of a baseball. I'd like him back on an incentive-laden deal if he could be had. Gio Gonzalez was a plus, and would be a 35 year old UFA, so who knows if he's back.

I'd love to see Jimmy Nelson back in the rotation and mowing guys down like he was two years ago.

I wonder if Stearns and co. will try to bring in more veteran pitching.

[jficke13]

edited, sorry double post.

[Hards Alumni]

Maybe, but I don’t see how anyone can say absolutely or clearly.  Look how many people in that twitter link alone see it differently...some say bat, some say hand.  Could be some optical illusions going on.

First, I don’t think it hit the wrist, but the fatty tissue at the bottom of the hand.  As for the ball jumping up, in my view it was hand, bat, jumps up to face.  Not sure any of us have physics degrees to determine how much kinetic energy is absorbed at that moment and where the ball goes...we’re talking about a round ball hitting tissue and a round knob, predicting where it goes is anyone’s guess.  I can understand both points of view, but just don’t see how it is clear as a bell with so many people disagreeing.

That is because you are incapable of changing your mind on anything.  To do so would admit defeat.

The rest of us see that sort of thing as personal growth.

[wadesworld]

Yes, it’s an intra-divisional conspiracy to screw Brewers’ fans. We meet once a year in Aspen to chart out our plans with the MLB Umpiring staff to set the world order.

You made that call last night?

Do you think they would've overturned the call had they originally called it a foul ball?

[WarriorDad]

Hader for 2 innings terrifies me

His managing in playoff games is suspect to me.

HBP foul ball play, could not tell.  Simultaneous is my best guess.  Need to go with play called on field.  If they had said foul ball, would not be overturned either.  Evidence not conclusive.

[CTWarrior]

HBP foul ball play, could not tell.  Simultaneous is my best guess.  Need to go with play called on field.  If they had said foul ball, would not be overturned either.  Evidence not conclusive.

I agree with this.  It was very close and if I had to guess I'd say probably hit bat first, but I have zero certainty. 

Sorry to you Brewers fans, that was a gut punch loss.  Biggest contributor, IMO, was inability to drum up any offense after the lead off homer in second.  We've seen it ton over the years, team gets early lead but does not tack on runs and pays for it in the end.

EDIT:  Don't know why I said hand, I meant bat.

[MU82]

You made that call last night?

Do you think they would've overturned the call had they originally called it a foul ball?

I know you weren't asking me, but I don't think they would have. I think this is one of those cases, that happen in the NBA and NFL, too, in which they stick with the original call barring conclusive evidence to the contrary.

Having said that, as a baseball fan who really didn't have a horse in the race, it sure seemed like it hit the bat first to me.

[buckchuckler]

You made that call last night?

Do you think they would've overturned the call had they originally called it a foul ball?

This is what it comes down to for me.  I don't think they could have changed it either way and had to stick with the original call. 

[jficke13]

Yeah, was bummed the HBP/Foul Ball didn't go the other way, but just like Bartman, there were other opportunities to get out of that frame. It's a bummer, but beyond exacerbating the board's weird fascination with needling Chicos and then letting Chicos needle it back, nothing to be gained from dwelling on it at this point.

[Dr. Blackheart]

You made that call last night?

Do you think they would've overturned the call had they originally called it a foul ball?

Sorry I took me a while to respond as dgies and I are deep in our Aspen redoubt.

First blush, I knew Hader has been wild and overused so I thought he hit him. Replay: It is really close but it clearly hits his hand first in super slow motion zoom...and then slides down the knob. Zapruder approves.

End of the day, the Brewers wilted down the stretch losing their last four after an incredible run. As it turns out, Yeti was missed more for his glove than his bat and Couns had to overuse his closer. The crapshoot had run its course.

[CTWarrior]

FYI - From Joe Posnanski on the Athletic about the HBP:
Taylor worked to a 3-2 count. Hader’s payoff pitch buzzed way inside and, pinball-machine style, hit various Taylor body parts. The umpire sent Taylor to first base.

This turned out to be a controversial play, one that Brewers fans will undoubtedly gripe about forever, because super-slow-motion replay showed that the ball may have skimmed the bat before it hit Taylor. The umpires went to look at it, couldn’t make a definitive judgment, and the hit-by-pitch stood as called. Of this I have to say two things:

It is possible that the ball hit the bat first. It kind of looked that way from the side angle.
I’m entirely unsympathetic to the argument. On a full count, Hader threw a terrible pitch a foot high and a foot inside. It was, at the very least, ball four, and it was definitively headed for Taylor’s body. The fact that Hader and the Brewers might have gotten lucky and the ball might have ticked Taylor’s bat seems a flimsy argument to me. This cuts to the heart of the problem I have with instant replay; it’s built on technicalities and loopholes rather than the big picture. In the big picture, Hader got exactly what he deserved.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

FYI - From Joe Posnanski on the Athletic about the HBP:
Taylor worked to a 3-2 count. Hader’s payoff pitch buzzed way inside and, pinball-machine style, hit various Taylor body parts. The umpire sent Taylor to first base.

This turned out to be a controversial play, one that Brewers fans will undoubtedly gripe about forever, because super-slow-motion replay showed that the ball may have skimmed the bat before it hit Taylor. The umpires went to look at it, couldn’t make a definitive judgment, and the hit-by-pitch stood as called. Of this I have to say two things:

It is possible that the ball hit the bat first. It kind of looked that way from the side angle.
I’m entirely unsympathetic to the argument. On a full count, Hader threw a terrible pitch a foot high and a foot inside. It was, at the very least, ball four, and it was definitively headed for Taylor’s body. The fact that Hader and the Brewers might have gotten lucky and the ball might have ticked Taylor’s bat seems a flimsy argument to me. This cuts to the heart of the problem I have with instant replay; it’s built on technicalities and loopholes rather than the big picture. In the big picture, Hader got exactly what he deserved.

See this is the kind of stuff I don't like.  BY RULE if it hit the bat first, it's a foul ball.  That isn't a technicality.  That isn't a loophole.  That is actually the rule. 

I am perfectly comfortable with idea that MLB couldn't make a definitive decision so they stuck with the original call.  That is completely defensible.  But saying that Hader got what he deserved is a statement without relevance.  It doesn't matter what he deserved.  It mattered what actually happened.  I mean did Hader "get exactly what he deserved" when Zimmerman broke his bat and got a weak ass single to center in the process?

[Bad_Reporter]

FYI - From Joe Posnanski on the Athletic about the HBP:
Taylor worked to a 3-2 count. Hader’s payoff pitch buzzed way inside and, pinball-machine style, hit various Taylor body parts. The umpire sent Taylor to first base.

This turned out to be a controversial play, one that Brewers fans will undoubtedly gripe about forever, because super-slow-motion replay showed that the ball may have skimmed the bat before it hit Taylor. The umpires went to look at it, couldn’t make a definitive judgment, and the hit-by-pitch stood as called. Of this I have to say two things:

It is possible that the ball hit the bat first. It kind of looked that way from the side angle.
I’m entirely unsympathetic to the argument. On a full count, Hader threw a terrible pitch a foot high and a foot inside. It was, at the very least, ball four, and it was definitively headed for Taylor’s body. The fact that Hader and the Brewers might have gotten lucky and the ball might have ticked Taylor’s bat seems a flimsy argument to me. This cuts to the heart of the problem I have with instant replay; it’s built on technicalities and loopholes rather than the big picture. In the big picture, Hader got exactly what he deserved.

A bit harsh. 

I believe Josh hasn’t given up two singles to lefties since May 23?

He’s not even close to being compensated for what he’s worth, came from a lower middle class upbringing, had a .143 era against lefties, donates his time to camp hometown hero’s, and is truly one of the “good guys”. Got what he deserved wouldn’t be the term I’d use for Josh.

Very proud Brewers fan, even though that loss stings.  Excited for the upcoming years, especially with Stearns in office.

[buckchuckler]

You're over thinking it.  He's saying he didn't come close to throwing a strike and would have been a walk if it wasn't for the controversial HBP.

[#UnleashSean]

You're over thinking it. 

Well this is scoop

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Well this is scoop

Usually lack of thought is more scoopish.

[Cheeks]

That is because you are incapable of changing your mind on anything.  To do so would admit defeat.

The rest of us see that sort of thing as personal growth.

Or I just don’t see it hitting the bat first just as so many other people don’t either while others do.

I’ve changed my mind often and adapted where necessary, but “progress” for the sake of progress which sometimes based on unhinged emotional blather...your kind of logic...isn’t what I do.  And for you to say you adapt is pretty damn funny.  If a 1000 climatologists came out tomorrow to say climate data is trumped up like several did last week, you would fight to the death to destroy their findings.  So give it a rest...you know that is exactly what you would do because otherwise you would have to admit you were wrong.

[Cheeks]

This is what it comes down to for me.  I don't think they could have changed it either way and had to stick with the original call.

I think you are right.

[MU82]

Or I just don’t see it hitting the bat first just as so many other people don’t either while others do.

I’ve changed my mind often and adapted where necessary, but “progress” for the sake of progress which sometimes based on unhinged emotional blather...your kind of logic...isn’t what I do.  And for you to say you adapt is pretty damn funny.  If a 1000 climatologists came out tomorrow to say climate data is trumped up like several did last week, you would fight to the death to destroy their findings.  So give it a rest...you know that is exactly what you would do because otherwise you would have to admit you were wrong.

Politics.

[Hards Alumni]

Or I just don’t see it hitting the bat first just as so many other people don’t either while others do.

I’ve changed my mind often and adapted where necessary, but “progress” for the sake of progress which sometimes based on unhinged emotional blather...your kind of logic...isn’t what I do.  And for you to say you adapt is pretty damn funny.  If a 1000 climatologists came out tomorrow to say climate data is trumped up like several did last week, you would fight to the death to destroy their findings.  So give it a rest...you know that is exactly what you would do because otherwise you would have to admit you were wrong.

I'm not sure if this is satire, but this is actually hilarious.  I should have added a trigger warning to my original post.

my bad.

[Cheeks]

Politics.

The climate is politics?  I thought it was a topic to save the world and transcended everything. 

[WI inferiority Complexes]

In Game 7 of the 2001 World Series, a Diamondback was HBP to load the bases with one out before Luis Gonzalez hit the blooper off Mariano Rivera to win it.  The HBP could have hit the knob--but before video replay--the ump awarded the batter his base and the matter quickly moved on.

The Diamondback who was hit, of course, was Craig Counsell.

[tower912]

Game 163 in 2009, Brandon Inge was HBP, could clearly see his jersey move, no call.  Ah, well.