Real MLB Thread

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Nah, its Marlins Man!

Wait a second....Bad Reporter as a user name.  This must be Jeff Poytrukus!

[Lennys Tap]

Depends on the source.  Fangraphs has Yelich 7.7 vs. Beli 7.1. B/R has Beli 8.1 vs. Yeli 7.1

True. Point remains it was toss up depending on POV.

[cheebs09]

Curious, st.Louis is a small market, yet is post season contenders every year. They have no problems gathering talent, paying top dollar for free agents, etc.  how do the brewers get to that? 

Obviously the cardinals have a rich history, and a great fan base, so how can the brewers get to that level? 

Similar to the Packers, except there is no single owner.

My thought is they are a very well run organization. They always seem to have some good pitching that they’ve developed and their players are fundamentally sound. They don’t beat themselves. It’s very cliche but I think they have always been good at doing the little things.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Curious, st.Louis is a small market, yet is post season contenders every year. They have no problems gathering talent, paying top dollar for free agents, etc.  how do the brewers get to that? 

Obviously the cardinals have a rich history, and a great fan base, so how can the brewers get to that level? 

Similar to the Packers, except there is no single owner.

1. St. Louis has more revenue due to their television contract.  So their overall payroll is higher

2. They actually don't pay "top dollar for free agents."  Their highest paid player (Molina) is tied for the 35th largest salary in baseball.  Their second highest paid (Fowler) is 59th.  (Tied with Khris Davis and Ian Kennedy)

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

My thought is they are a very well run organization. They always seem to have some good pitching that they’ve developed and their players are fundamentally sound. They don’t beat themselves. It’s very cliche but I think they have always been good at doing the little things.

They have been great under John Mozeliak.  And before that under Walt Jocketty.  They find value in the draft and on the "next tier" of free agents.  It really isn't about opening the checkbook and buying the best guys out there.

[copious1218]

1. St. Louis has more revenue due to their television contract.  So their overall payroll is higher

2. They actually don't pay "top dollar for free agents."  Their highest paid player (Molina) is tied for the 35th largest salary in baseball.  Their second highest paid (Fowler) is 59th.  (Tied with Khris Davis and Ian Kennedy)

Think you forgot Goldschmidt.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Think you forgot Goldschmidt.

His extension doesn't kick in until next year.  And it will be the 15th largest as of now.

[JWags85]

My thought is they are a very well run organization. They always seem to have some good pitching that they’ve developed and their players are fundamentally sound. They don’t beat themselves. It’s very cliche but I think they have always been good at doing the little things.

They hack other teams to find proprietary data to help better themselves.  I mean, they have superior advanced analytics. 

[buckchuckler]

Depends on the source.  Fangraphs has Yelich 7.7 vs. Beli 7.1. B/R has Beli 8.1 vs. Yeli 7.1

I think the moral of the story here is they were both having tremendous seasons.  Either would have been a great candidate to win the MVP.  They both have been putting up great numbers.  Now, with the injury to Yelich, it seems like Bellinger is the odds on favorite to win.

[shoothoops]

The Cardinals?

Large fan base. First team West of Mississippi. Back in the day their flagship radio station reached almost all 50 states. Some people became fans from far away places. They win. They’ve been winning at a high level every other decade since the 1800’s. Missouri borders 8 states. Minor league systems over the years have been in several of those states plus Florida. In the summer many of their weekend crowds arguably have more out of town Cards fans on a road trip than locals (of which are many as well)

3 million fans annually for over 20 plus straight seasons. Many of those were 3.5 million.They first drew 3 million in a season in the 1980’s.

Their current television deal is $1 billion over 15 years. They have been in the top 3 or better in MLB local tv ratings for over a few decades. 

When the current owners bought the team in 1996, they paid $150 million. The deal included the nearby parking garages. They immediately sold the garages back for $75 million. Current team valuation has been listed by Forbes as $2.1 billion (2018), which comes in at 7th.  They are also currently finishing phase 2 of a multiple phase several hundred million dollar development project in the neighborhood around the stadium.  The Cardinals are able to compete larger than their top 20 National market size. They are top 10-ish spenders. They are not going to outspend the Biggest Market teams, but they will be competitive in the next tier after that.

I thought they needed a couple of more big hitters in the off season this year. Still think so. But their pitching has been so good to make up the difference to this point. It isn’t a lock by any means for them to win the division or make the playoffs this season.  They are in a good position. But they’ll have to win games against the Brewers, Cubs, Nationals, etc..down the stretch. Expectations are always high there. It is a more forgive-able media and fan base than NYC or Boston but expectations are always high.  It is not an organization that will tank seasons to rebuild. And doing it that way is challenging to be competitive almost annually.

Fun fact: The Cardinals tried to acquire Yelich from the Marlins but Miami would not make him available for a trade. The Cardinals then traded for Ozuna instead.

[jsglow]

Channeling their inner Yeli. On to SLU.  #Crew

[TallTitan34]

Fun fact: The Cardinals tried to acquire Yelich from the Marlins but Miami would not make him available for a trade. The Cardinals then traded for Ozuna instead.

They tried to acquire that whole outfield of Stanton, Ozuna, and Yelich.

[shoothoops]

They tried to acquire that whole outfield of Stanton, Ozuna, and Yelich.

This is true.

[Benny B]

Well considering Brewers family sits in rows 20 and further back, I wouldn’t be in the first 5 rows big Chief.

Again, I have an open invitation to anyone who wants to meet, see some of the players after the game, and go on the field.

You da man for talking sh*t, but refusing to accept.   Tell you what, I’ll get you some tickets too.  How many? 1?

Ha!  My seats are better than yours!

[Benny B]

They hack other teams to find proprietary data to help better themselves.  I mean, they have superior advanced analytics. 

I know this is teal, but really, what else could it be?

[copious1218]

His extension doesn't kick in until next year.  And it will be the 15th largest as of now.

Ah. Got it. Thanks.

[Cheeks]

Depends on the source.  Fangraphs has Yelich 7.7 vs. Beli 7.1. B/R has Beli 8.1 vs. Yeli 7.1

Fair point.  I think it proves out that it is razor thin and anyone saying hands down or certain to win is nothing but a homer.

[dgies9156]

I've been a Cardinal fan since the 1960s and I think there are a couple of reasons why the Cardinals are so good for so long.

1) As other posters illustrated, the Cardinals have a very loyal fan base. Before 1957, they were it west of the Mississippi. That's a long time ago but baseball traditions are generational. Father to son. Mother to daughter. Heck, Kansas City should own a good part of Missouri and everything in the Great Plains. They don't. The Cardinals do.

2) For years, the Cardinals had Anheuser-Busch as an owner. Sometimes the Brewery invested more, sometimes less. But the Cardinals for a generation were directly associated with Budweiser and Busch Beers. The corporate strength of AB helped make the team a national team.

3) Sorry, but Cardinal fans are demanding fans. I've been critical of Cub fans before as putting up with crap. Cardinal fans will tolerate a bad team for a short time it if the team is trying to win. But if the team is a bunch of losers, as it was in the late 1970s, the fans will find something else to do. Boating in the Ozarks, gambling on the Mississippi or growing grass in Chesterfield. Cardinal fans are hard-working fans and they're not going to spend their money wastefully. Plus, the team's success has spoiled them. Ownership knows this.

4) Cub fans will put up with crap because Wrigley Field is the eighth wonder of the world. Brewer fans will tolerate it because they're ever hopeful goodness is just around the corner and if, we get lucky, they'll be there when it started!

[wadesworld]

Fair point.  I think it proves out that it is razor thin and anyone saying hands down or certain to win is nothing but a homer.

Honest question, do you know what it means to be a homer?

[jsglow]

dgies,

I think a lot of what you write about the Cards is correct.  There's one other important factor in play and that's the simple reality that they are really the only game in town.  Sure St. Louis has had its occasional 'rental' football team but they have a weak history in that regard.  Sure they have hockey but little success until just now and zero national relevance.  And their last foray into basketball was an unknown ABA team if I'm recalling correctly.  On top of that, St. Louis (and Missouri for that matter) have no presence in any major college sport with the pinnacle probably being Mizzou football, now a complete after though misplaced in the SEC.  That means that essentially ALL the sports dollars flow into the Cards.  St. Louis is a baseball town because it very much has to be a baseball town.

I'm not being critical.  It's one of the great franchises.  Upper quartile in MLB, for sure.  Probably the only non-coastal team in that regard save the Cubs and perhaps the Braves.

I guess the one thing that I also reflect on is how wonderful we really have it in Wisconsin.  The Big 3 sports played at a good to great level with outstanding history plus championships (mostly in football) and MVPs galore.  GREAT college sports including football, basketball and hockey.  World class venues.  It's all good.  We're truly blessed. 

[Dr. Blackheart]

Yeah but Milwaukee's local television revenue is near the bottom of the league.  According to this estimation, only Colorado, KC, Miami and Tampa earns less.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/estimated-tv-revenues-for-all-30-mlb-teams/

If you look at this list of 2018 team revenue, the Brewers are 16th.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/193645/revenue-of-major-league-baseball-teams-in-2010/

So right about where their payroll is located.

But, a third of the Brewers revenue is from Cubs fans.

[Dr. Blackheart]

SportsLine's postseason odds: Brewers, 55.1 percent; Cubs, 37.1 percent

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mlb-wild-card-standings-magic-numbers-mlb-playoff-odds-as-cubs-and-brewers-neck-and-neck-down-the-stretch/amp/

[buckchuckler]

I'm not being critical.  It's one of the great franchises.  Upper quartile in MLB, for sure.  Probably the only non-coastal team in that regard save the Cubs and perhaps the Braves.

I think saying they are upper quartile is way to conservative.  They are likely the 2nd most successful franchise ever (Yankees, obviously).  Maybe you could make arguments for teams like the Dodgers or Giants being there with them.  But I don't think there are any other teams that can stack up to what the Cardinals have accomplished in the history of their franchise.  They have had consistent success since the 20's.  Heck their longest WS drought since the 20s is from 82-2006.  Oh and that is just for wins.  They made 3 World Series appearances in that span. 

[jsglow]

I think saying they are upper quartile is way to conservative.  They are likely the 2nd most successful franchise ever (Yankees, obviously).  Maybe you could make arguments for teams like the Dodgers or Giants being there with them.  But I don't think there are any other teams that can stack up to what the Cardinals have accomplished in the history of their franchise.  They have had consistent success since the 20's.  Heck their longest WS drought since the 20s is from 82-2006.  Oh and that is just for wins.  They made 3 World Series appearances in that span.

I wasn't trying to do the math buck.  I think 2nd is a huge stretch.  No way in heck they are more significant than the Dodgers because I'm talking about more than on field success.  But there's no reason to argue.  They're way up there; top 10%.  There, better? 

My point was more about why that is.  It's great for St. Louis.  Because before last year's Blues run, there really wasn't much else.  It's the same logic my BIL always used about SEC football living in Nashville.  Then they got the Titans.  Again, Wisconsin is truly blessed.

[TallTitan34]

I've been a Cardinal fan since the 1960s and I think there are a couple of reasons why the Cardinals are so good for so long.

1) As other posters illustrated, the Cardinals have a very loyal fan base. Before 1957, they were it west of the Mississippi. That's a long time ago but baseball traditions are generational. Father to son. Mother to daughter. Heck, Kansas City should own a good part of Missouri and everything in the Great Plains. They don't. The Cardinals do.

2) For years, the Cardinals had Anheuser-Busch as an owner. Sometimes the Brewery invested more, sometimes less. But the Cardinals for a generation were directly associated with Budweiser and Busch Beers. The corporate strength of AB helped make the team a national team.

3) Sorry, but Cardinal fans are demanding fans. I've been critical of Cub fans before as putting up with crap. Cardinal fans will tolerate a bad team for a short time it if the team is trying to win. But if the team is a bunch of losers, as it was in the late 1970s, the fans will find something else to do. Boating in the Ozarks, gambling on the Mississippi or growing grass in Chesterfield. Cardinal fans are hard-working fans and they're not going to spend their money wastefully. Plus, the team's success has spoiled them. Ownership knows this.

4) Cub fans will put up with crap because Wrigley Field is the eighth wonder of the world. Brewer fans will tolerate it because they're ever hopeful goodness is just around the corner and if, we get lucky, they'll be there when it started!

Literally, three of your points are that you have the best fans in baseball.

This is why the joke exists.