MLB 2017 Season

[wadesworld]

Where is that narrative from? Is it your personal view? If so, why? Is it an opinionated narrative? If so, why and whose opinion? Is it a fact/stat-based narrative? If so, what are those stats?

You'd have to ask all the resident Cubs fans whose defense of Arietta's going from a guy who can't stay in the major leagues to being the best pitcher in baseball at the age of 28 years old as all about finally having a pitching coach who knew how to work miracles with all and any pitchers he's ever worked with and the long line of pitchers they'll point to who came in from different teams and saw their numbers skyrocket when they got to Chicago and then drop again when they left.  If the guy is as good as Cubs fans will try to get you to believe, there's no way he should ever be fired from any job.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

You'd have to ask all the resident Cubs fans whose defense of Arietta's going from a guy who can't stay in the major leagues to being the best pitcher in baseball at the age of 28 years old as all about finally having a pitching coach who knew how to work miracles with all and any pitchers he's ever worked with and the long line of pitchers they'll point to who came in from different teams and saw their numbers skyrocket when they got to Chicago and then drop again when they left.  If the guy is as good as Cubs fans will try to get you to believe, there's no way he should ever be fired from any job.

[wadesworld]

+1. It always has been.

[HouWarrior]

Astros trying to make history.  They would be the first team to represent both the AL & NL in the World Series.

Of course, they don't have much competition.

History made

[MU82]

When this SI cover ran in June 2014 my Astros were in a 92 loss season, and coming off multiple years of 100 plus losses ....Today feels pretty darn good......

I guess nobody talks about the cover jinx when it doesn't work out very jinxy!

[Vander Blue Man Group]

+1. It always has been.

I'm just patiently waiting for you to say something intelligent.

[wadesworld]

I'm just patiently waiting for you to say something intelligent.

Just reciting exactly what you and other Cubs fans say. So glad we’re finally on the same page here buddy.

[jesmu84]

You'd have to ask all the resident Cubs fans whose defense of Arietta's going from a guy who can't stay in the major leagues to being the best pitcher in baseball at the age of 28 years old as all about finally having a pitching coach who knew how to work miracles with all and any pitchers he's ever worked with and the long line of pitchers they'll point to who came in from different teams and saw their numbers skyrocket when they got to Chicago and then drop again when they left.  If the guy is as good as Cubs fans will try to get you to believe, there's no way he should ever be fired from any job.

Oh.

Is that true though? Do pitchers come from other teams and put up better stats once in Chicago? And once they leave the Cubs, do their stats go down again?

[🏀]

Oh.

Is that true though? Do pitchers come from other teams and put up better stats once in Chicago? And once they leave the Cubs, do their stats go down again?

Only when they're juicing.

[wadesworld]

Oh.

Is that true though? Do pitchers come from other teams and put up better stats once in Chicago? And once they leave the Cubs, do their stats go down again?

If that's the case, I'm not sure why you're firing the dude who's solely responsible for that success...

[jesmu84]

If that's the case, I'm not sure why you're firing the dude who's solely responsible for that success...

I'm asking you if that's the case. Have you looked into it at all?

[wadesworld]

I'm asking you if that's the case. Have you looked into it at all?

No. I usually trust people when they post stuff on here.

[Dr. Blackheart]

No buzz on here about Dusty getting the old heave ho?  Not a fan, but that is some crazy stuff right there.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Just reciting exactly what you and other Cubs fans say. So glad we’re finally on the same page here buddy.

Except you're not. You're reciting the same boring, incorrect narrative you've created.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

No buzz on here about Dusty getting the old heave ho?  Not a fan, but that is some crazy stuff right there.

How so? Wasn't surprising to me in the least after they didn't get past the NLDS.

[wadesworld]

Except you're not. You're reciting the same boring, incorrect narrative you've created.

Right, it's a boring, incorrect narrative that was never true.  But when it fit the Cubs fans agenda it was Gospel, and now that the Jesus of Pitchers has been fired it no longer fits the agenda so it's boring and incorrect.

[Dr. Blackheart]

How so? Wasn't surprising to me in the least after they didn't get past the NLDS.

He won 192 games over two seasons. Nats left him hanging. Nightingale writes a pretty damning article about the owners.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2017/10/20/dusty-baker-fired-nationals/785731001/

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

The differing expectations for organizations is always fascinating to me. I have seen the Brewers make the postseason twice in my entire lifetime. I couldn't imagine firing a manager immediately after they led a team to the postseason. Hell, we didn't make the postseason this year and I was happy with how the Brewers did!

[B. McBannerson]

No buzz on here about Dusty getting the old heave ho?  Not a fan, but that is some crazy stuff right there.

It's what the Nats do. 

[MerrittsMustache]

The differing expectations for organizations is always fascinating to me. I have seen the Brewers make the postseason twice in my entire lifetime. I couldn't imagine firing a manager immediately after they led a team to the postseason. Hell, we didn't make the postseason this year and I was happy with how the Brewers did!

In 2008, the Brewers fired Ned Yost with 12 games to play when they were leading the Wild Card.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Right, it's a boring, incorrect narrative that was never true.  But when it fit the Cubs fans agenda it was Gospel, and now that the Jesus of Pitchers has been fired it no longer fits the agenda so it's boring and incorrect.

That's incorrect.  I don't recall anyone ever saying that Bosio deserved all of the credit for the pitchers that found success under him as the players deserve a lot of of credit as well.  I also don't recall anyone saying Bosio was infallible or had a perfect track record. 

Have you read the multitude of articles on him not being brought back?  Have you even read one? 

You sure do have a weird issue with Cubs fans. 

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Apologies in advance for the size of the pic but it's always crazy to me how different Arrieta looks without the beard. 

[MUBurrow]

No buzz on here about Dusty getting the old heave ho?  Not a fan, but that is some crazy stuff right there.

I felt the same way. The ownership group sounds legitimately awful per the Nightingale article. At the same time, if I had Harper, Turner, Scherzer and Stras, I don't think I'd want to sit in the owners' box with my fingers crossed that Dusty can deliver a championship, either. The real sin there was jerking Bud Black around just to hire Dusty, the most "baseball guy" in the history of "baseball guys" out of spite. I have no doubt that Dusty is one of the more well-liked guys in the game, and deserves the defense in the Nightingale piece, but I think he is to managing what Tim McCarver is to baseball analysis at this point.

[tower912]

Verlander had a really good comeback year last year. But he's old (34) for a power pitcher and his ERA, WHIP and BB/K ratio are bad - maybe the worst in his career. Figure in a crappy contract and I don't see him bring back a whole lot.

If I'm a club looking for a starter I'd go after Sonny Gray, Quintana, Cobb or Cole. (or someone else I'm sure I'm forgetting).

Bump.

[tower912]

Verlander's tough. I think its hard to see him ever replicating last season ever again. He's conservatively probably a guy that will have an ERA between 3.5 and 4 for the next year or two, strike out 7.5 and walk 3 per nine.  That's worth a fair amount over an entire season, but not much in trade value compared to the contract, and he's still not a guy you want to try to pitch three times in a 7 game playoff series - he's pretty much guaranteed to get shelled at least one of those times. Tough to see Verlander being the difference between getting bounced in the Divisonals and making another WS appearance.

I think the Cubs have two big needs to be real WS contenders. One is that legit, reliable front line pitcher. Arrieta looks busted and I think the real Kyle Hendricks is the 2015 & 2017 version, not the 2016 version. Still valuable, but won't be more than maybe the third starter in the playoffs.

They also need a table setter with some speed. Fowler had a career year in that respect last year. His .393 obp was his highest since 2012. In 2012, the OBP was a product of once-in a carer a .300 BA (25 pts higher than his second best season) buyoed by a .390 BABIP playing half his games at Coors. Moral of the story - I get why you don't pay Fowler, but that production in that place in the lineup is really missed, and there just aren't smart, veteran baserunners annoying pitchers when Bryant and Rizzo are trying to do their damage.

Bump