MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: Tugg Speedman on September 15, 2017, 03:03:46 PM
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Went to a presentation by Michael Lovell at the University Club in Chicago. Brian Troyer, Dean of Admissions, also spoke.
About 50ish alumni were there, anyone else here go?
A couple of takeaways (going from memory so please correct if you can) ...
The United States has 61 Jesuit High Schools and 28 Jesuit Colleges. The biggest Jesuit pipeline in the country is Loyola Academy in Wilmette to MU. In the class of 2017, over 200 kids from Loyola Academy applied to MU and 43 enrolled.
42% of the incoming class of 2017 are from Illinois, more than WI. 31% are of color.
MU's class of 2017 has 164 kids from Jesuit high schools, beating out Santa Clara (161) as the most Jesuit kids in a single class among the 28 Jesuit Universities.
MU needs 1,970 kids in an incoming class for budget purposes. The 2017 class had 2,027.
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Also, when Wild Hall is done next year, that kicks off a two-phase $600 million capital campaign of building on campus.
After McCormick closes next year, it will be immediately torn down. In its place will be a new "health and wellness" center. The current Rec Center will be torn down and the new business school, connected with the new engineering school via "innovation alley" will be built.
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I thought of a few more things ....
23% of the 2017 class is kids that are the first one in the family to go to college. 18% of the class are legacies.
The average discount from the tuition sticker price is 40%.
Marquette's yield, or the percentage of accepted students that enroll, is 18%. However an accepted istudent visits the campus, the yield goes to 40%. If they visit campus more than once and goes to 55%.
The admission director argued the single most important thing To get a kid to enroll is visiting the school. However I would argue that logic might be reversed. They visit because they have a strong interest in going to MU in the first place not that they were impartial going in and convinced to come.
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Thanks Jig. I had wanted to go to that reception, but was away on business.
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I thought of a few more things ....
23% of the 2017 class is kids that are the first one in the family to go to college. 18% of the class are legacies.
The average discount from the tuition sticker price is 40%.
Marquette's yield, or the percentage of accepted students that enroll, is 18%. However an accepted istudent visits the campus, the yield goes to 40%. If they visit campus more than once and goes to 55%.
The admission director argued the single most important thing To get a kid to enroll is visiting the school. However I would argue that logic might be reversed. They visit because they have a strong interest in going to MU in the first place not that they were impartial going in and convinced to come.
You're not completely wrong, but he's more right than you are. If that makes sense.
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I don't understand why they're so focused on recruiting at Jesuit high schools. They're always going to have that constituency but the type of high school the incoming freshman class comes from shouldn't be relevant. Perhaps if they cast a wider net and spent 1/4 of as much time recruiting good students from great public schools, as they do recruiting students from Jesuit high school's and other Catholic high schools, the number of applications wouldn't have decreased from 25K to 13.5K two years ago and the acceptance rate wouldn't have increased from 65% to 84% in that same time period. There are a hell of a lot more students in public high schools than private, let alone Jesuit high schools, and at least in the region where I live most public high schools are significantly better than their private / catholic cohorts.
I know the academic profile of the incoming class hasn't deteriorated, but as long as the acceptance rate is that high, the average standardized test scores and GPA of the incoming class could be the highest they've ever been in the institution's history and it still won't be enough to offset the extremely negative perception. It seems the current administration and BOT are completely blind to the negative perception of that, at least in the part of the country where I live. I don't think it's fair to say people like me are a bunch of northeastern elitist snobs when all we really want is for Marquette to maintain the ranking it had a couple of years ago and have a reasonable acceptance rate around 60 to 65%. That's hardly elite status.
Marquette needs to aim higher! Curious if any alums at the event had the gumption to grill leadership on their current approach. I guarantee if they do the same presentation in Boston, New York, Phillly, or DC they will be called out on that by the alumni base out here, because it's becoming virtually impossible to get high school students out here and more importantly their parents footing the bill to even consider Marquette as a viable option anymore.
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Yep, we get better and more diverse students....while spending less money. Sounds like a real lose lose to me.
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Yeah but if you're not recruiting public schools in the northeast, none of it matters.
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Yep, we get better and more diverse students....while spending less money. Sounds like a real lose lose to me.
And our national ranking gets worse and worse. If we remain on the current trajectory, we'll be in the 120s in another 3 or 4 years. It seems clear the current administration could care less as long as they meet their enrollment goals.
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And our national ranking gets worse and worse. If we remain on the current trajectory, we'll be in the 120s in another 3 or 4 years. It seems clear the current administration could care less as long as they meet their enrollment goals.
From your lips to God's ears.
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And our national ranking gets worse and worse. If we remain on the current trajectory, we'll be in the 120s in another 3 or 4 years. It seems clear the current administration could care less as long as they meet their enrollment goals.
Thank goodness the bolded is true.
Also look closer at the rankings. They changed the metrics on how they measured graduation rates. We dropped from 48th in that category to 70th. I think that is what accounts for our four spot drop from last year. It was a change in metrics, not anything that Marquette did.
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You're not completely wrong, but he's more right than you are. If that makes sense.
I understand what you're saying and don't disagree with you.
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Thank goodness the bolded is true.
Also look closer at the rankings. They changed the metrics on how they measured graduation rates. We dropped from 48th in that category to 70th. I think that is what accounts for our four spot drop from last year. It was a change in metrics, not anything that Marquette did.
Also in 2013 when their stated goal was the top quarter of the us news ranking. Then the national university list had 200 schools meaning they were shooting for top 50. The 2018 ranking has 311 schools in the national university ranking, so now that is 78th.
Combine these two factors and MU might not be doing worse.
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I don't understand why they're so focused on recruiting at Jesuit high schools. They're always going to have that constituency but the type of high school the incoming freshman class comes from shouldn't be relevant. Perhaps if they cast a wider net and spent 1/4 of as much time recruiting good students from great public schools, as they do recruiting students from Jesuit high school's and other Catholic high schools, the number of applications wouldn't have decreased from 25K to 13.5K two years ago and the acceptance rate wouldn't have increased from 65% to 84% in that same time period. There are a hell of a lot more students in public high schools than private, let alone Jesuit high schools, and at least in the region where I live most public high schools are significantly better than their private / catholic cohorts.
They addressed this ...
In 2017 MU got 75% of its students from three states, Illinois (42%), Wisconsin (31%) and Minnesota (4%). California was fourth at 3%.
They showed a bunch of demographic trends in those states in over the next 10 years the Catholic high school population as well as the overall populations are going to be declining rapidly. So MU is making a push towards recruiting kids of color in the Midwest as opposed to going more geographically wider.
Admissions hired two more recruiters for the Midwest to focus on schools with large minority populations, especially Hispanic. They are developing A relationship with the Cristo Rey network of Catholic schools.
They also laid out some statistics from the other 27 Jesuit universities and noted that MU is actually doing better than most. Because MU's average ACT score an average GPA is going up every year while meeting their enrollment goals. They said many of Jesuit universities are struggling in this area.
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They addressed this ...
In 2017 MU got 75% of its students from three states, Illinois (42%), Wisconsin (31%) and Minnesota (4%). California was fourth at 3%.
They showed a bunch of demographic trends in those states in over the next 10 years the Catholic high school population as well as the overall populations are going to be declining rapidly. So MU is making a push towards recruiting kids of color in the Midwest as opposed to going more geographically wider.
Admissions hired two more recruiters for the Midwest to focus on schools with large minority populations, especially Hispanic. They are developing A relationship with the Cristo Rey network of Catholic schools.
They also laid out some statistics from the other 27 Jesuit universities and noted that MU is actually doing better than most. Because MU's average ACT score an average GPA is going up every year while meeting their enrollment goals. They said many of Jesuit universities are struggling in this area.
So let me get this straight.......both the Catholic and high school populations in those states are declining rapidly, therefore they're doubling down on recruiting kids of color who although admittedly are a rapidly increasing minority, are nevertheless still a minority at this point in time. I get that demographic trends indicate they will be the majority in the next five to ten years, but at the end of the day it's still a declining market.
Look I applaud the University's diversity efforts and if they can make a college education more accessible to students from far less fortunate backgrounds than most of us came from while simultaneously increasing the avg test score and GPA of the incoming class that's great but if the tradeoff means we have to accept 84% of every applicant who applies, all of the other desirable metrics are canceled out as a result of our high acceptance rate and Marquette University will never be taken seriously by the northeastern academic elite who set the higher education agenda in this country and who have the most influence over the US News metrics. I don't like it any more than you guys do but because I live out here, I accept it as the way things are.
Most of you can't see what's happening from my perspective because the Marquette brand is still very strong and well respected in Wisconsin and Illinois. Unfortunately it is declining here will continue to as long as they remain on this current path. If they're comfortable being a regional school I guess that's okay. I know MU is considered a National University in the sense that they meet the esoteric academic criteria as defined by US News & World Report, but to me a true National University is one which the undergraduate student body comes from as wide a geographic footprint as possible. Surely there are other east coast alums on this board who share my point of view.
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Marquette University will never be taken seriously by the northeastern academic elite
Look, you just need to understand that this isn't a priority for Marquette. You may disagree with them, but it clearly isn't where they are going to invest resources.
who set the higher education agenda in this country
LOL what? What exact "agenda" do the northeastern elites set? I have worked in higher education my entire career and never had a conversation along the lines of "huh...I wonder what the northeastern elites think?" You are being as provincial as you claim midwesterners are when you say that.
I don't like it any more than you guys do but because I live out here, I accept it as the way things are.
Well you should also then accept that Marquette doesn't really care in a relative manner. They aren't going to artificially jack up a bad statistic just to satisfy people from 1,000 miles away.
Really if Marquette succeeds doing things this way, why do you care?
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Really if Marquette succeeds doing things this way, why do you care?
Apparently, when he tells his elitist friends that he went to Marquette, he wants them to be more impressed than they currently are.
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Yeah but if you're not recruiting public schools in the northeast, none of it matters.
If MU's problem is declining population in the Midwest, why is the solution to recruit the northeast, a place with an even larger declining population? Hate to break it to you, the northeast is Boston, NYC and a bunch of people strung out on opioids.
If they were to expand beyond the Midwest, the west and southwest is the place to go.
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If MU's problem is declining population in the Midwest, why is the solution to recruit the northeast, a place with an even larger declining population? Hate to break it to you, the northeast is Boston, NYC and a bunch of people strung out on opioids.
If they were to expand beyond the Midwest, the west and southwest is the place to go.
Here are two sources with facts and figures in case that matters to anyone anymore.
https://www.census.gov/popclock/data_tables.php?component=growth (https://www.census.gov/popclock/data_tables.php?component=growth)
https://www.statnews.com/2017/04/25/opioid-deaths-map/ (https://www.statnews.com/2017/04/25/opioid-deaths-map/)
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Right. The midwest isn't declining by any means. There are still plenty of people here.
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Apparently, when he tells his elitist friends that he went to Marquette, he wants them to be more impressed than they currently are.
On the rare occasions I have those types of conversations, my job is interesting and impressive enough that college attendance doesn't usually come up. I would very much like for future generations of MU grads to have the same level of access to similar jobs in the future. Forgive me for caring so much about the perception of our mutual alma mater's brand.
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If MU's problem is declining population in the Midwest, why is the solution to recruit the northeast, a place with an even larger declining population? Hate to break it to you, the northeast is Boston, NYC and a bunch of people strung out on opioids.
If they were to expand beyond the Midwest, the west and southwest is the place to go.
Not saying their solution should be to focus on the Northeast specifically. I think they should cast as wide a net as possible but if the demo trends point to Southwest and West, they should absolutely devote more resources there.
My frustration is that they focus too much on "catholic" high schools regardless of the region which is a relatively small market. Not saying they should ignore them, but I think they put way too much emphasis there.
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Not saying their solution should be to focus on the Northeast specifically. I think they should cast as wide a net as possible but if the demo trends point to Southwest and West, they should absolutely devote more resources there.
My frustration is that they focus too much on "catholic" high schools regardless of the region which is a relatively small market. Not saying they should ignore them, but I think they put way too much emphasis there.
They shouldn't focus on students that are more likely to enroll?
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I find it funny that universities are routinely criticized for bloated budgets, unnecessary bureaucracy, and inefficiency....but these rankings punish schools who use an efficient recruiting strategy.
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On the rare occasions I have those types of conversations, my job is interesting and impressive enough that college attendance doesn't usually come up. I would very much like for future generations of MU grads to have the same level of access to similar jobs in the future. Forgive me for caring so much about the perception of our mutual alma mater's brand.
I'm pretty sure most of us here care about the perception of MU's brand. But if the ACTs and GPAs of the incoming class are increasing regularly, it seems MU's strategy is working fine in that regard.
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I'm pretty sure most of us here care about the perception of MU's brand. But if the ACTs and GPAs of the incoming class are increasing regularly, it seems MU's strategy is working fine in that regard.
No one here has mentioned that Marquette is near the top of the list in USNWR's list of "A+ schools for B students". The In my mind, it's much more admirable to be able to provide an excellent education to non-elite students. It is way easier to have excellent outcomes when you only accept the cream of the crop to begin with.
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I thought of a few more things ....
23% of the 2017 class is kids that are the first one in the family to go to college. 18% of the class are legacies.
The average discount from the tuition sticker price is 40%.
Marquette's yield, or the percentage of accepted students that enroll, is 18%. However an accepted istudent visits the campus, the yield goes to 40%. If they visit campus more than once and goes to 55%.
The admission director argued the single most important thing To get a kid to enroll is visiting the school. However I would argue that logic might be reversed. They visit because they have a strong interest in going to MU in the first place not that they were impartial going in and convinced to come.
My daughter, a Northeast US student, now a HS Junior is interested in Marquette. She technically has visited campus 3 times and watches Marquette games quite often. She's meeting an Admissions Office person next month and will take an "official" visit either in the spring or summer. She's looking at other schools too including some of our rivals. We don't want her fixated on just one.
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No one here has mentioned that Marquette is near the top of the list in USNWR's list of "A+ schools for B students". In my mind, it's much more admirable to be able to provide an excellent education to non-elite students. It is way easier to have excellent outcomes when you only accept the cream of the crop to begin with.
I think the world is run by 'C' students.
Al McGuire
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On the rare occasions I have those types of conversations, my job is interesting and impressive enough that college attendance doesn't usually come up. I would very much like for future generations of MU grads to have the same level of access to similar jobs in the future. Forgive me for caring so much about the perception of our mutual alma mater's brand.
Who talks like this?
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Who talks like this?
That was sarcasm and not meant to be taken seriously. Someone took a shot at me so I shot back.
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No one here has mentioned that Marquette is near the top of the list in USNWR's list of "A+ schools for B students". The In my mind, it's much more admirable to be able to provide an excellent education to non-elite students. It is way easier to have excellent outcomes when you only accept the cream of the crop to begin with.
I agree wholeheartedly that's a great list to be on and glad we're ranked near the top of it. Despite all my bitching and moaning about acceptance rates and rankings, I've never suggested MU try to be anything even close to elite. If they play that game they'll lose. I do think they can do somewhat better and wish they would pay a little more attention to how they're perceived outside of WI and IL that's all.
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I agree wholeheartedly that's a great list to be on and glad we're ranked near the top of it. Despite all my bitching and moaning about acceptance rates and rankings, I've never suggested MU try to be anything even close to elite. If they play that game they'll lose. I do think they can do somewhat better and wish they would pay a little more attention to how they're perceived outside of WI and IL that's all.
I guess, I am now confused. If we group Catholic universities into a few different categories my sense is we have a few different tiers...
Tier 1: Notre Dame, BC, & Georgetown (IMHO we will never reach this tier)
Tier 2: Villanova, Santa Clara, Holy Cross, Fordham, (and here is where I think it gets very subjective, the following schools are either in the bottom of tier 2, or top of tier 3 Marquette, SLU, some of the Loyolas, Providence, Gonzaga...
Tier 3 schools: Lesser known Loyolas, Depaul, Dayton...
I am sure I missing a few...but my point is, is it your sense you want MU to firmly plant itself @ the top of tier 2 alongside the Villanovas, Holy Crosses, and Fordhams, or something more??
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My $.02 worth, elite means Asia. There is no such thing as a "national" university, MU is an International University. Please, let me see those numbers before we start talking about the mid-west.
A few years ago I was at an elite liberal arts college/university and found Princeton graduate school on campus recruiting. Not Princeton in Princeton, but Princeton Japan.
BTW, in the center of the St. Johns campus they have a pagoda. Why? Because it is the home of the school of international studies. Been there since the 80's. They now have a majority Asian-american student body.
I know, I'm way off the topic. When I was a student at M.U. we had many Venezuelan, Philippine and African students.
Not easy getting beyond the Mid-west mind-set, I know, been there, done that.....
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I guess, I am now confused. If we group Catholic universities into a few different categories my sense is we have a few different tiers...
Tier 1: Notre Dame, BC, & Georgetown (IMHO we will never reach this tier)
Tier 2: Villanova, Santa Clara, Holy Cross, Fordham, (and here is where I think it gets very subjective, the following schools are either in the bottom of tier 2, or top of tier 3 Marquette, SLU, some of the Loyolas, Providence, Gonzaga...
Tier 3 schools: Lesser known Loyolas, Depaul, Dayton...
I am sure I missing a few...but my point is, is it your sense you want MU to firmly plant itself @ the top of tier 2 alongside the Villanovas, Holy Crosses, and Fordhams, or something more??
I've never heard Santa Clara mentioned in the same breath as Holy Cross, Nova and Fordham (which has its ranking inflated by being in NYC). I know their law school isn't particularly highly rated.
MU should be right among the second tier. We'll never be rated alongside BC, G-town and ND, for various reasons, but there's no reason it can't be within the #3 Jesuit school and a top 5 Catholic school nationally. The new construction and "Innovation Alley" will definitely help that.
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Remembered something else (I should have taken notes) ...
MU has 177 transfers coming in with the 2017 class. That is the highest among the 28 Jesuit universities and MU is making a point to seek out transfers. (not sure how one seeks out transfers?)
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I guess, I am now confused. If we group Catholic universities into a few different categories my sense is we have a few different tiers...
Tier 1: Notre Dame, BC, & Georgetown (IMHO we will never reach this tier)
Tier 2: Villanova, Santa Clara, Holy Cross, Fordham, (and here is where I think it gets very subjective, the following schools are either in the bottom of tier 2, or top of tier 3 Marquette, SLU, some of the Loyolas, Providence, Gonzaga...
Tier 3 schools: Lesser known Loyolas, Depaul, Dayton...
I am sure I missing a few...but my point is, is it your sense you want MU to firmly plant itself @ the top of tier 2 alongside the Villanovas, Holy Crosses, and Fordhams, or something more??
Yes. I would argure that Villanova and Holy Cross are higher than Fordham, but I think We're in the same league as Fordham for sure. They have a big advantage being in NYC which unfairly inflates their ranking by 10 pts or so just by virtue of geography but unfortunately that's the way it goes. Wish you had mentioned more non catholic schools to be compared with. Why only compare us to other Catholic schools? We compete with Syracuse and BU type schools just as much and I honestly think we're right up there with CUSE, but because they're basically an extension of NYC even though they're a 4 hour drive away, they have an inherent advantage due to it's proximity to NYC too.
MKE is a much more fun, dynamic and exciting city than Syracuse, which is depressing as hell, but everyone who lives in the NYC metro area knows Syracuse for all intents and purposes isn't really in Syracuse from a cultural standpoint. It's heart and soul is in NYC. Still, given the less expensive tuition, dynamism of MKE over Syracuse, and Big East conf. membership, MU can absolutely compete with Syracuse for some of that same pool of students, they just don't believe they can. I get that's not where they should be devoting most of their resources from an efficiency standpoint, but MU's defeatist attitude is what annoys me. Then again it's a lot easier for MU to compete with Syracuse and it's ilk with a 75 National ranking and acceptance rate in the low 60's than it is now that they're ranked 90 and letting in 84% of everyone who applies. Prospective students and their parents who otherwise might have considered Marquette as a viable option are a lot more likely to cross it off their list of schools to apply to as a result, and the notion that this mindset is only held by those in the Northeastern U.S. is nonsense. I just happen to live here so I compare MU to schools in my neck of the woods.
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Prospective students and their parents who otherwise might have considered Marquette as a viable option are a lot more likely to cross it off their list of schools to apply to as a result
If Marquette is hitting it's enrollment target and improving the test scores & GPAs of incoming freshmen classes, what difference does it make?
Plus, college rankings are presented in an incomplete way. You can look at Villanova vs Marquette and say "Wow! 50 vs 90...that's 40 spots. That's a big difference." But, as far as I know, US News doesn't release a score for the schools. Let's say Villanova scored 95.72. Is Marquette's score 95.06 or 93.81 or 90.22? How big of a difference is there really? The difference between 50 and 90 could be razor thin but no one knows! If someone knows these scores, please let me know and we can disregard my last paragraph.
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Prospective students and their parents who otherwise might have considered Marquette as a viable option are a lot more likely to cross it off their list of schools to apply to as a result, and the notion that this mindset is only held by those in the Northeastern U.S. is nonsense. I just happen to live here so I compare MU to schools in my neck of the woods.
Please, share any evidence that you have of this.
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What % is female & how best do we address any related concerns?
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What % is female & how best do we address any related concerns?
The freshman class is 50% female, which is actually lower than most of its peer schools.
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The freshman class is 50% female, which is actually lower than most of its peer schools.
Does that mean Marquette showed a preference for males in this class? If so, way to go MU!
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Yes. I would argure that Villanova and Holy Cross are higher than Fordham, but I think We're in the same league as Fordham for sure. They have a big advantage being in NYC which unfairly inflates their ranking by 10 pts or so just by virtue of geography but unfortunately that's the way it goes. Wish you had mentioned more non catholic schools to be compared with. Why only compare us to other Catholic schools? We compete with Syracuse and BU type schools just as much and I honestly think we're right up there with CUSE, but because they're basically an extension of NYC even though they're a 4 hour drive away, they have an inherent advantage due to it's proximity to NYC too.
MKE is a much more fun, dynamic and exciting city than Syracuse, which is depressing as hell, but everyone who lives in the NYC metro area knows Syracuse for all intents and purposes isn't really in Syracuse from a cultural standpoint. It's heart and soul is in NYC. Still, given the less expensive tuition, dynamism of MKE over Syracuse, and Big East conf. membership, MU can absolutely compete with Syracuse for some of that same pool of students, they just don't believe they can. I get that's not where they should be devoting most of their resources from an efficiency standpoint, but MU's defeatist attitude is what annoys me. Then again it's a lot easier for MU to compete with Syracuse and it's ilk with a 75 National ranking and acceptance rate in the low 60's than it is now that they're ranked 90 and letting in 84% of everyone who applies. Prospective students and their parents who otherwise might have considered Marquette as a viable option are a lot more likely to cross it off their list of schools to apply to as a result, and the notion that this mindset is only held by those in the Northeastern U.S. is nonsense. I just happen to live here so I compare MU to schools in my neck of the woods.
I just threw Catholic schools as the identifier because of the similar size, compete for similar students, and have similar endowments.
I don't get the Syracuse comparison at all.
Cuse is twice the size in enrollment, has a 1.2 billion endowment that blows ours out of the water. I think we compete for a very different types of students.
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Please, share any evidence that you have of this.
My roommate for 3/4 years at MU has a son who is a Sr. at a large public school in suburban Chicago. His son is extremely bright and a viable candidate for admission to Harvard, Yale, Princeton, etc. They flew out last weekend to tour those 3 schools and few others between Boston and Philadelphia, staying over at our house for a night to save on a hotel since we're halfway between Boston / Philly. His son isn't considering Marquette at all, but we were talking about MU generally and he told me that while his son's high school still sends some students to Marquette every year, the numbers have dropped about 40% in the last 4 years. They used to send anywhere from 9-12 in a good year 4 -5 years ago but it's now like 4 or 5 students a year and it's been like that for the past several years even though the population of the school hasn't declined. He didn't know why specificaly but he shares many of my concerns about the direction of MU and suspects counselors at that high school just don't recommend Marquette with as much enthusiasm as they used to a few years ago. This is just what he told me so I have no idea what the issue is or if it's even true, but have no reason not to believe him. I found it interesting because I remember someone on this board a month or so ago also said MU had fallen out of favor among students at his local suburban Chicago high school recently and no it wasn't my roomate because he's not on here. Im not suggesting any of this has to do with MU's new admissions/ recruiting strategy but I don't think that can be ruled out either.
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My roommate for 3/4 years at MU has a son who is a Sr. at a large public school in suburban Chicago. His son is extremely bright and a viable candidate for admission to Harvard, Yale, Princeton, etc. They flew out last weekend to tour those 3 schools and few others between Boston and Philadelphia, staying over at our house for a night to save on a hotel since we're halfway between Boston / Philly. His son isn't considering Marquette at all, but we were talking about MU generally and he told me that while his son's high school still sends some students to Marquette every year, the numbers have dropped about 40% in the last 4 years. They used to send anywhere from 9-12 in a good year 4 -5 years ago but it's now like 4 or 5 students a year and it's been like that for the past several years even though the population of the school hasn't declined. He didn't know why specificaly but he shares many of my concerns about the direction of MU and suspects counselors at that high school just don't recommend Marquette with as much enthusiasm as they used to a few years ago. This is just what he told me so I have no idea what the issue is or if it's even true, but have no reason not to believe him. I found it interesting because I remember someone on this board a month or so ago also said MU had fallen out of favor among students at his local suburban Chicago high school recently and no it wasn't my roomate because he's not on here. Im not suggesting any of this has to do with MU's new admissions/ recruiting strategy but I don't think that can be ruled out either.
It would have been way easy for you to just type, "I have none".
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If Marquette is hitting it's enrollment target and improving the test scores & GPAs of incoming freshmen classes, what difference does it make?
He never answers this question. Ever.
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Does that mean Marquette showed a preference for males in this class? If so, way to go MU!
What % is female & how best do we address any related concerns?
(https://media.giphy.com/media/3o6ZsSsqBQcnNKoMTK/giphy.gif)
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High school counselors recommend schools that aren't in their backyard? My high school counselor couldn't tell me anything about any schools beyond our metro area
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I think the world is run by 'C' students.
Al McGuire
In the new world economy, I don't think that is going to hold. Tougher and tougher for blue collar folks, and those that don't have the computing power to get it done. There will be opportunities, but the same number could be difficult to find the way we are headed in this technological revolution.
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My roommate for 3/4 years at MU has a son who is a Sr. at a large public school in suburban Chicago. His son is extremely bright and a viable candidate for admission to Harvard, Yale, Princeton, etc. They flew out last weekend to tour those 3 schools and few others between Boston and Philadelphia, staying over at our house for a night to save on a hotel since we're halfway between Boston / Philly. His son isn't considering Marquette at all, but we were talking about MU generally and he told me that while his son's high school still sends some students to Marquette every year, the numbers have dropped about 40% in the last 4 years. They used to send anywhere from 9-12 in a good year 4 -5 years ago but it's now like 4 or 5 students a year and it's been like that for the past several years even though the population of the school hasn't declined. He didn't know why specificaly but he shares many of my concerns about the direction of MU and suspects counselors at that high school just don't recommend Marquette with as much enthusiasm as they used to a few years ago. This is just what he told me so I have no idea what the issue is or if it's even true, but have no reason not to believe him. I found it interesting because I remember someone on this board a month or so ago also said MU had fallen out of favor among students at his local suburban Chicago high school recently and no it wasn't my roomate because he's not on here. Im not suggesting any of this has to do with MU's new admissions/ recruiting strategy but I don't think that can be ruled out either.
If those Ivy league schools are in his crosshairs, MU isn't going to be a viable comparison anyway.
This year's class has an average ACT of 28.4. In my day that was around 25. Something like 40 states are represented by this year's freshman class. All 50 states and many nations for the entire student body. It isn't for everyone. It served me well. It has served my offspring well thus far, and didn't come from the midwest to attend MU.
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Yes. I would argure that Villanova and Holy Cross are higher than Fordham, but I think We're in the same league as Fordham for sure. They have a big advantage being in NYC which unfairly inflates their ranking by 10 pts or so just by virtue of geography but unfortunately that's the way it goes.
Completely wrong
The geographic favoritism is clearly California.
The highest rated public schools in the country on their list are Berkeley and UCLA, both tied at #21.
UC Santa Barbara is #37
UC Irvine and UC San Diego are #42
UC Davis is #46
For prospective, all are ranked higher than Madison. So according to this measure, if UW-Madison was to relocate to CA, it would be the 7th best school in this system.
And on the private school side in CA is
Stanford #5
Cal Tech #10
USC #21
Pepperdine #46
That's 10 CA schools in the top 50. NYC has two, Columbia and NYU (NYC equals Chicago on this measure and is behind Boston, which is less than half its population).
Hate to break it to you Disco, CA runs the country and the world. NYC are formerly the leaders and now pretenders.
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If Marquette is hitting it's enrollment target and improving the test scores & GPAs of incoming freshmen classes, what difference does it make?
Plus, college rankings are presented in an incomplete way. You can look at Villanova vs Marquette and say "Wow! 50 vs 90...that's 40 spots. That's a big difference." But, as far as I know, US News doesn't release a score for the schools. Let's say Villanova scored 95.72. Is Marquette's score 95.06 or 93.81 or 90.22? How big of a difference is there really? The difference between 50 and 90 could be razor thin but no one knows! If someone knows these scores, please let me know and we can disregard my last paragraph.
This is exactly right.
Notice on the list how many schools are tied with each other, meaning they have exactly the same score.
It's most likely the schools right behind them are just one tick lower. If they publish the actual score we would see there's really not much difference between 50 and 90.
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This is exactly right.
Notice on the list how many schools are tied with each other, meaning they have exactly the same score.
It's most likely the schools right behind them are just one tick lower. If they publish the actual score we would see there's really not much difference between 50 and 90.
The score is published.
DePaul at #120 has a score of 46 (out of 100)
SLU at #94 has a score of 51
MU at #90 has a score of 52
Fordham at #61 has a score of 60
Nova at #46 has a score of 64
BC at #37 has a score of 70
GTown at #20 has a score of 80
The non-linearity that Lazar mentioned is immediately evident: DePaul would need only a four point increase in order to jump 30 spots, while Nova would need roughly a 16-point increase to jump the same number of spots.
Put another way, there is a steep fall somewhere, probably near the very top of the rankings. The cardinal ranking suggests that the resources spent on climbing the USWNR rankings exhibit diminishing returns and by 'diminishing' I mean 'holy-jeez-when-are-we-going-to-see-a-return-on-this investment'.
Even if USWNR made more noise about its cardinal ranking, it wouldn't hide the inherent flaws. I mean, come on: any ranking that puts Northeastern on the same level as Boston University is hardly worth taking too seriously.
In fairness to USWNR, it's the nature of rankings--any ranking. It reminds me of an old saying that goes along the lines of 'a thermometer is a good measure of temperature, but it is the heat of the room that matters.'
EDIT: Typo (MU's score is 52, not 50)
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The score is published.
DePaul at #120 has a score of 46 (out of 100)
SLU at #94 has a score of 51
MU at #90 has a score of 50
Fordham at #61 has a score of 60
Nova at #46 has a score of 64
BC at #37 has a score of 70
GTown at #20 has a score of 80
The non-linearity that Lazar mentioned is immediately evident: DePaul would need only a four point increase in order to jump 30 spots, while Nova would need roughly a 16-point increase to jump the same number of spots.
Put another way, there is a steep fall somewhere, probably near the very top of the rankings. The cardinal ranking suggests that the resources spent on climbing the USWNR rankings exhibit diminishing returns and by 'diminishing' I mean 'holy-jeez-when-are-we-going-to-see-a-return-on-this investment'.
Even if USWNR made more noise about its cardinal ranking, it wouldn't hide the inherent flaws. I mean, come on: any ranking that puts Northeastern on the same level as Boston University is hardly worth taking too seriously.
In fairness to USWNR, it's the nature of rankings--any ranking. It reminds me of an old saying that goes along the lines of 'a thermometer is a good measure of temperature, but it is the heat of the room that matters.'
Is SLU's (51) score a typo? How can they be one point higher than MU (50) and be ranked lower at 94? Don't mean to be picky even though I am being picky.
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Thanks Eldon. I'm not sure where you found those because I can't find the cardinal scores anywhere. But those numbers add further to my concern. First, I find it concerning that the scores are whole numbers. How does a complicated formula spit out whole numbers? If the scores are being rounded up or down, then they're dumbing down their higher education rankings.
Secondly, the scores paint a grim picture for all but the upper crust universities. I know Marquette ain't Princeton but is it only half the school Princeton is? That is how the scores make it look but I'm not sure the gap is that big.
Third, the rankings become a self fulfilling prophecy. The best students go to the highest ranked schools with the best reputations, which keep those schools highly ranked and their reputations strong. It is what it is.
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He never answers this question. Ever.
Happy to answer that question. The short answer is it doesn't matter in a practical sense and I'm certain Marquette does an outstanding job educating its students for future leadership roles in whatever career path they choose. What frustrates me is I don't believe their ranking and how they're perceived nationally is commensurate with how great a school it is and I believe they can do a little better. What I don't understand is why the majority of folks on here don't care about that as well. Call me a superficial snob if you like but the appearance and perception is as important to me as reality and I don't think how MU is perceived, especially in the part of the country where I live, is remotely emblematic of how great an institution it is. I get very frustrated when I represent MU at college fairs and am constantly grilled about Marquette's high admit rate by parents. I am in favor of the moves MU is making in terms of the campus master plan and greater ties with the city and think the current President is a good leader and very nice man. I just don't think they can continue to admit 8.4 / 10 of everyone who applies and not take a hit that's all. I think there's an acknowledgement they'll take a hit for that, but as long as they're growing they don't really care. I do.
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Thanks Eldon. I'm not sure where you found those because I can't find the cardinal scores anywhere. But those numbers add further to my concern. First, I find it concerning that the scores are whole numbers. How does a complicated formula spit out whole numbers? If the scores are being rounded up or down, then they're dumbing down their higher education rankings.
Secondly, the scores paint a grim picture for all but the upper crust universities. I know Marquette ain't Princeton but is it only half the school Princeton is? That is how the scores make it look but I'm not sure the gap is that big.
Third, the rankings become a self fulfilling prophecy. The best students go to the highest ranked schools with the best reputations, which keep those schools highly ranked and their reputations strong. It is what it is.
(https://snag.gy/SgnwaF.jpg)
The fact that the score is a whole number is likely the result of rounding. I guess USWNR prefers to have ties rather than have two schools separated by 0.0007
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(https://snag.gy/SgnwaF.jpg)
The fact that the score is a whole number is likely the result of rounding. I guess USWNR prefers to have ties rather than have two schools separated by 0.0007
So MU needs 12 points to crack the top 50.
Any way to get a history of these scores? (When MU was ranked #75 in 2014 did it have a higher score than it does now ranked #90?)
MU's US News Ranking History
http://publicuniversityhonors.com/2016/09/18/average-u-s-news-rankings-for-126-universities-2010-1017/
2007 = 81
2008 = 82
2009 = 77
2010 = 84
2011 = 75
2012 = 82
2013 = 83
2014 = 75
2015 = 76
2016 = 86
2017 = 86
2018 = 90
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My roommate for 3/4 years at MU has a son who is a Sr. at a large public school in suburban Chicago. His son is extremely bright and a viable candidate for admission to Harvard, Yale, Princeton, etc. They flew out last weekend to tour those 3 schools and few others between Boston and Philadelphia, staying over at our house for a night to save on a hotel since we're halfway between Boston / Philly. His son isn't considering Marquette at all, but we were talking about MU generally and he told me that while his son's high school still sends some students to Marquette every year, the numbers have dropped about 40% in the last 4 years. They used to send anywhere from 9-12 in a good year 4 -5 years ago but it's now like 4 or 5 students a year and it's been like that for the past several years even though the population of the school hasn't declined. He didn't know why specificaly but he shares many of my concerns about the direction of MU and suspects counselors at that high school just don't recommend Marquette with as much enthusiasm as they used to a few years ago. This is just what he told me so I have no idea what the issue is or if it's even true, but have no reason not to believe him. I found it interesting because I remember someone on this board a month or so ago also said MU had fallen out of favor among students at his local suburban Chicago high school recently and no it wasn't my roomate because he's not on here. Im not suggesting any of this has to do with MU's new admissions/ recruiting strategy but I don't think that can be ruled out either.
It's a different time from when we were in college. With the internet kids can more easily research schools outside of their region. With so much sports broadcast kids can learn about schools outside of their region. Who had heard of Gonzaga in 1992? Until their 1999 Elite 8 run their incoming class was 500 and layoffs and building closures were happening (they would have dropped to D3 if not for that run). Now they're a national draw for students. I occasionally present at high schools and see the "college maps" indicating where seniors are going and they're spread out nationally now. My finalists were MU, Xavier, Evansville and a few D3 liberal arts schools who were recruiting me for athletics. It's because they were regional and I knew the schools and could visit them rather easily. There were some schools I was interested in learning more about that were outside the midwest (Fordham, St. Bonaventure are two that I remember) and I had to call or write to them to get info, but couldn't easily get to visit them. And when I didn't get the info that was that.
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Thanks again Eldon. Boy am I embarrassed. It was staring me right in the face and I couldn't see it. As I tell my wife in these situations, it was hidden in plain sight!
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Happy to answer that question. The short answer is it doesn't matter in a practical sense and I'm certain Marquette does an outstanding job educating its students for future leadership roles in whatever career path they choose. What frustrates me is I don't believe their ranking and how they're perceived nationally is commensurate with how great a school it is and I believe they can do a little better. What I don't understand is why the majority of folks on here don't care about that as well. Call me a superficial snob if you like but the appearance and perception is as important to me as reality and I don't think how MU is perceived, especially in the part of the country where I live, is remotely emblematic of how great an institution it is. I get very frustrated when I represent MU at college fairs and am constantly grilled about Marquette's high admit rate by parents. I am in favor of the moves MU is making in terms of the campus master plan and greater ties with the city and think the current President is a good leader and very nice man. I just don't think they can continue to admit 8.4 / 10 of everyone who applies and not take a hit that's all. I think there's an acknowledgement they'll take a hit for that, but as long as they're growing they don't really care. I do.
I, too, have worked college fairs for Marquette, and not once has a parent or prospective student mentioned or asked about the acceptance rate. It is apparent that we run around in different circles, and it sounds like Marquette is not particularly interested in killing themselves to enroll the students you are trying to get. Simply stated, Marquette doesn't want to be the school you want them to be, and I am fine with that. I still don't get why you aren't.
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So MU needs 12 points to crack the top 50.
Any way to get a history of these scores? (When MU was ranked #75 in 2014 did it have a higher score than it does now ranked #90?)
MU's US News Ranking History
http://publicuniversityhonors.com/2016/09/18/average-u-s-news-rankings-for-126-universities-2010-1017/
2007 = 81
2008 = 82
2009 = 77
2010 = 84
2011 = 75
2012 = 82
2013 = 83
2014 = 75
2015 = 76
2016 = 86
2017 = 86
2018 = 90
would it not be better to put the percentile they were in? 75 in 2014 looks better than 90 in 2018, but if there are 100 more schools in 2018 than 2014, it's a different story.
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I, too, have worked college fairs for Marquette, and not once has a parent or prospective student mentioned or asked about the acceptance rate. It is apparent that we run around in different circles, and it sounds like Marquette is not particularly interested in killing themselves to enroll the students you are trying to get. Simply stated, Marquette doesn't want to be the school you want them to be, and I am fine with that. I still don't get why you aren't.
I'm not in any way suggesting that Marquette should try turn itself into Yale or Princeton, or even BC or Georgetown, nor do I think they should aggressively recruit students from the Northeast in particular which I acknowledge is not an efficient use of their resources. They're a Midwestern school and that's where the majority of their students are always going to come from. I don't run in different circles either. Yes there are a lot of elitist snobs in my area but they're not the types that are likely to send their kids to a school like Marquette anyway, and believe me, I'm not trying to get them to.
That said, I've been both a volunteer rep at college fairs out here as well as just someone who is contacted occasionally from parents of prospective students or students themselves that are interested in Marquette through word of mouth simply based on being an alum in the area that can provide perspective. There aren't that many of us here and it's difficult for interested students to find many alums or current students from this area that they can talk to compared to schools like Fordham or Syracuse.
I've been doing this for over 15 years and up until about 3 years ago, couldn't recall a single instance where the acceptance rate has ever come up in a conversation with a prospective student or their parents. That has changed significantly in the last couple of years and although it doesn't always come up, It's an issue that's been raised probably in 75% of the conversations I've had in the last couple of years. They'll bring it up innocently enough and just mention it as a data point and say something like hey you know I noticed Marquette's acceptance rate is X, which seems kind of high and noticeably higher than some of the other schools we're considering. Can you shed any light on why that's the case? Quite frankly I don't have a good answer for that and it's a question I'd rather not entertain in the first place. What this tells me is that the difference between a 67% acceptance rate where it's historically been, and a 75% or 84% acceptance rate as it was this past year, is highly significant because it wasn't something anyone questioned or more likely even noticed a couple of years ago but it's something they routinely do now. That's my concern.
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I'm not in any way suggesting that Marquette should try turn itself into Yale or Princeton, or even BC or Georgetown, nor do I think they should aggressively recruit students from the Northeast in particular which I acknowledge is not an efficient use of their resources. They're a Midwestern school and that's where the majority of their students are always going to come from. I don't run in different circles either. Yes there are a lot of elitist snobs in my area but they're not the types that are likely to send their kids to a school like Marquette anyway, and believe me, I'm not trying to get them to.
That said, I've been both a volunteer rep at college fairs out here as well as just someone who is contacted occasionally from parents of prospective students or students themselves that are interested in Marquette through word of mouth simply based on being an alum in the area that can provide perspective. There aren't that many of us here and it's difficult for interested students to find many alums or current students from this area that they can talk to compared to schools like Fordham or Syracuse.
I've been doing this for over 15 years and up until about 3 years ago, couldn't recall a single instance where the acceptance rate has ever come up in a conversation with a prospective student or their parents. That has changed significantly in the last couple of years and although it doesn't always come up, It's an issue that's been raised probably in 75% of the conversations I've had in the last couple of years. They'll bring it up innocently enough and just mention it as a data point and say something like hey you know I noticed Marquette's acceptance rate is X, which seems kind of high and noticeably higher than some of the other schools we're considering. Can you shed any light on why that's the case? Quite frankly I don't have a good answer for that and it's a question I'd rather not entertain in the first place. What this tells me is that the difference between a 67% acceptance rate where it's historically been, and a 75% or 84% acceptance rate as it was this past year, is highly significant because it wasn't something anyone questioned or more likely even noticed a couple of years ago but it's something they routinely do now. That's my concern.
I feel like you've been given several in this thread.
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Short answer: Marquette is an early adopter of targeted recruiting. They are trying to eliminate applications from students that either won't get accepted or have no interest in attending MU in the first place.
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Short answer: Marquette is an early adopter of targeted recruiting. They are trying to eliminate applications from students that either won't get accepted or have no interest in attending MU in the first place.
There you go, Disco. Print this out and tape it onto a 3x5 card.
One other thing: If you are representing Marquette at college recruiting functions and are "constantly" being asked a question that you can't answer, why aren't you contacting the admissions office to get that answer? Isn't that what most people in your position would do?
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Disco, you make some good points. Don't worry about the arrows you are taking. All opinions welcome here, sort of.
One thing lost in much of this is where else are MU kids being accepted. I can give you an example of my MU offspring and their peers (roommates, etc) that were accepted to schools like Gonzaga, Notre Dame, Madison, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Purdue, Indiana, Michigan State, Ohio State, Oregon, Illinois, BC, to name a few.
They chose MU. It was the right fit for them. They had ample opportunities, some of the same schools you are holding up as comparisons to.
I, also, would like the acceptance rate numbers to change because some people do hold that in high regard, but it is important to note that the number of applications is low, most people applying to MU are serious about applying. Madison, UCLA, Notre Dame, etc, get 50% of their applications because it's ingrained in their heads as the state school or some dream notion, with no possibility of ever getting admitted. MU isn't going to fit that bill. Which is fine.
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I, also, would like the acceptance rate numbers to change because some people do hold that in high regard, but it is important to note that the number of applications is low, most people applying to MU are serious about applying. Madison, UCLA, Notre Dame, etc, get 50% of their applications because it's ingrained in their heads as the state school or some dream notion, with no possibility of ever getting admitted. MU isn't going to fit that bill. Which is fine.
The schools with the 10 highest number of applications. Can you guess the trend?
https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/the-short-list-college/articles/2017-09-14/10-colleges-with-the-most-applications
Below are the 10 schools with the highest number of applications for fall 2016. Unranked schools, which did not meet certain criteria required by U.S. News to be numerically ranked, were not considered for this report.
School Number of applications U.S. News rank and category
University of California—Los Angeles 97,121 21 (tie), National Universities
University of California—San Diego 84,209 42 (tie), National Universities
University of California—Berkeley 82,581 21 (tie), National Universities
University of California—Irvine 77,810 42 (tie), National Universities
University of California—Santa Barbara 77,098 37 (tie), National Universities
University of California—Davis 67,472 46 (tie), National Universities
California State University—Long Beach 60,732 39, Regional Universities (West)
New York University 60,724 30 (tie), National Universities
San Diego State University 60,691 140 (tie), National Universities
Boston University 57,441 37 (tie), National Universities
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Other schools of interest
Madison http://www.wisc.edu/about/facts/ 29,536 (2016)
Marquette https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/marquette-university/applying/entering-class-stats/
20,486 (2016)
Notre Dame http://admissions.nd.edu/apply/admission-statistics/
19,566 (2017)
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Regarding this 74% acceptance rate. Consider these two schools ....
http://admissions.nd.edu/apply/admission-statistics/
19,566 APPLICATIONS
3,700 ADMITTED
2,050 ENROLLED
YIELD 55% (% of accepted that enrolled)
https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/marquette-university/applying/entering-class-stats/
Acceptance and Enrollment Stats (Fall 2016)
Applicant Total 20,486
Accepted 15,202
Enrolled 1,876
Yield 12.3%
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The reason MU's acceptance rate is so high is that its yield (% of accepted students that enroll) is so low. To get 1 student to enroll it has to accept 8 kids. ND has to accept 2 kids to get 1 to enroll.
Does MU need more applications? No, it gets more than ND now, it does a good job on this front What MU needs is the right students, the ones that will actually enroll. THat is why its strategy of focusing on the Jesuit schools in the midwest is smart. They visit the school and enroll.
Once its yield goes up the acceptance rate can start going way down.
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Yield = desirability. No surprise, hey?
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Yield = desirability. No surprise, hey?
Yield = right fit. No surprise hey?
Something's right fit can be cost. Think in-state tuition.
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This story is about school with 25 schools with the lowest yield rate and why that is. MU is on the list. Drexel is #1 along with St. Johns, Seton Hall, Fordham, San Fran and Denver. As they suggest below, cost can be the biggest driver of this decision.
https://graphiq-stories.graphiq.com/stories/12724/colleges-lowest-admission-yield-rates#2-Sonoma-State-University
The goal of any college admission staff is to assemble the best class possible. Once acceptance letters are sent out, however, the challenge then becomes convincing accepted students to actually enroll. Perk packages and a welcoming atmosphere are all crucial to the wooing process, but for a number of reasons, some colleges have a difficult time securing commitments.
With this in mind, StartClass has found the 25 colleges with the lowest admission yield rates. The list was made using the most recent data from the National Center for Education Statistics and reflects the 2014-15 academic year. Only schools with at least 5,000 undergraduate students were considered.
It's important to note that a low admission yield rate does not mean a school is necessarily performing poorly. Drexel University, for example, appears high on this list, but its yield rate is negatively impacted by the school's use of the "Fast App," an online application that makes it possible to apply to Drexel with a click of a button. The Fast App resulted in a 300 percent increase in applications from 2005 to 2015, and many applicants knew very little about the school and only applied because it was extremely convenient to do so. The school's yield rate fell from 32 percent to 8 percent in just over a decade because, according to Randy Deike, senior vice president of the Office of Enrollment Management and Student Success, the admission staff was forced to admit a high percentage of applicants. Drexel discontinued the use of the Fast App in January 2015.
Other factors, such as in-state and out-of-state tuition prices, can also impact schools' admission yield rates. Of the 25 colleges on the list, 17 are located in New York or California, two states among the highest in cost of living.
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Increasing numbers and percentages of Black and Hispanic students are attending college. Between 2000 and 2015, the percentage of college students who were Black rose from 11.7 to 14.1 percent, and the percentage of students who were Hispanic rose from 9.9 to 17.3 percent (source). Also, the percentage of Hispanic 18- to 24-year-olds enrolled in college and university increased from 21.7 percent in 2000 to 36.6 percent in 2015, and the percentage of Black 18- to 24-year-olds enrolled increased from 30.5 percent to 34.9 percent in that same period
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Let me start by saying that focusing attention on college rankings from a failed newsmagazine generally thought to be third of three publications in its genre somehow impresses me as irrational. I don't get why US News is a big deal in anything.
People who spend their lives worrying about where their college, or any college for that matter, ranks, needs to get a life. That goes for all of you college administrators who spend millions to influence US News.
As for Marquette, if it's the right school for high schoolers selecting a college, they'll go there. Much has to do with the major a person wants to study, the location (yes, believe it or not, Milwaukee's winters affect people's decisions, as does the urban location, noise etc.), what they want in a social life, how much money a university gives a student and even where the Dad or Mom went to college.
I wanted my children to go to Marquette badly -- and I told them their mother and I would find a way to pay for it if they did. But despite having a raving Marquette loyalist for a parent, Marquette was not right for our children, and they went where it was best for them and their needs (P.S. -- my daughter is still a die-hard Warrior fan!).
Having a great basketball team matters (c'mon Wojo, you need to be back in the Top 10 ASAP!) because it gets people to look at a school. We were a much more diverse school when Al was head coach and we were Top 5 than we were when Dukiet was head coach and we were nowhere to be found. That's why the university under Father Wild recommitted itself to Warrior basketball. Most people won't come to us because the basketball program is great, but it might get them to look.
Ultimately, it's what comes out and how they do in the world that really matters.
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Let me start by saying that focusing attention on college rankings from a failed newsmagazine generally thought to be third of three publications in its genre somehow impresses me as irrational. I don't get why US News is a big deal in anything.
People who spend their lives worrying about where their college, or any college for that matter, ranks, needs to get a life. That goes for all of you college administrators who spend millions to influence US News.
As for Marquette, if it's the right school for high schoolers selecting a college, they'll go there. Much has to do with the major a person wants to study, the location (yes, believe it or not, Milwaukee's winters affect people's decisions, as does the urban location, noise etc.), what they want in a social life, how much money a university gives a student and even where the Dad or Mom went to college.
I wanted my children to go to Marquette badly -- and I told them their mother and I would find a way to pay for it if they did. But despite having a raving Marquette loyalist for a parent, Marquette was not right for our children, and they went where it was best for them and their needs (P.S. -- my daughter is still a die-hard Warrior fan!).
Having a great basketball team matters (c'mon Wojo, you need to be back in the Top 10 ASAP!) because it gets people to look at a school. We were a much more diverse school when Al was head coach and we were Top 5 than we were when Dukiet was head coach and we were nowhere to be found. That's why the university under Father Wild recommitted itself to Warrior basketball. Most people won't come to us because the basketball program is great, but it might get them to look.
Ultimately, it's what comes out and how they do in the world that really matters.
You, sir, are on a roll this morning.
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Let me start by saying that focusing attention on college rankings from a failed newsmagazine generally thought to be third of three publications in its genre somehow impresses me as irrational. I don't get why US News is a big deal in anything.
People who spend their lives worrying about where their college, or any college for that matter, ranks, needs to get a life. That goes for all of you college administrators who spend millions to influence US News.
As for Marquette, if it's the right school for high schoolers selecting a college, they'll go there. Much has to do with the major a person wants to study, the location (yes, believe it or not, Milwaukee's winters affect people's decisions, as does the urban location, noise etc.), what they want in a social life, how much money a university gives a student and even where the Dad or Mom went to college.
I wanted my children to go to Marquette badly -- and I told them their mother and I would find a way to pay for it if they did. But despite having a raving Marquette loyalist for a parent, Marquette was not right for our children, and they went where it was best for them and their needs (P.S. -- my daughter is still a die-hard Warrior fan!).
Having a great basketball team matters (c'mon Wojo, you need to be back in the Top 10 ASAP!) because it gets people to look at a school. We were a much more diverse school when Al was head coach and we were Top 5 than we were when Dukiet was head coach and we were nowhere to be found. That's why the university under Father Wild recommitted itself to Warrior basketball. Most people won't come to us because the basketball program is great, but it might get them to look.
Ultimately, it's what comes out and how they do in the world that really matters.
First, I don't disagree with you but in the world we live in rankings, and this ranking in particular, matters.
The failing US News & World Report was the first to invent college rankings in 1983 and it still enjoys its first mover advantage.
So, if we could wave a wand and change MU's ranking from 90 to 40, it would matter. MU's yield would go up and its acceptance rate would go down. Disco would be thrilled.
The administration is right for trying to make its academic reputation as high as possible. Whether or not they're trying to game these numbers will never know.
But do you win if you do game the numbers? Yes, see Northeastern University in Boston. They gamed the system, moved up a lot and essentially won. Money and prestige flowed to the school just because they moved up a lot on this ranking alone.
http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/article/2014/08/26/how-northeastern-gamed-the-college-rankings/
Some schools even cheat to get their ranking up, because it matters that much.
In 2008, Baylor University told newly admitted students that they’d receive a $300 campus-bookstore credit if they retook their SATs, and $1,000 a year in student aid if the scores improved by more than 50 points. In 2009, an administrator at Clemson University, whose president shared Freeland’s rankings fixation, admitted the school misrepresented financial information and purposefully rated institutions low on the peer assessments.
In 2011, Iona College officials admitted to misreporting acceptance rates, SAT scores, graduation rates, and alumni donation amounts over the course of a decade. In 2012, Claremont McKenna College copped to misreporting SAT scores for several years. Also in 2012, George Washington University admitted to inflating the percentage of students who graduated at the top of their high school classes, and Emory University said it had misreported high school GPAs for four years and SAT scores for nearly a dozen years.
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So yes it shouldn't matter but it does
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Let me start by saying that focusing attention on college rankings from a failed newsmagazine generally thought to be third of three publications in its genre somehow impresses me as irrational. I don't get why US News is a big deal in anything.
People who spend their lives worrying about where their college, or any college for that matter, ranks, needs to get a life. That goes for all of you college administrators who spend millions to influence US News.
As for Marquette, if it's the right school for high schoolers selecting a college, they'll go there. Much has to do with the major a person wants to study, the location (yes, believe it or not, Milwaukee's winters affect people's decisions, as does the urban location, noise etc.), what they want in a social life, how much money a university gives a student and even where the Dad or Mom went to college.
I wanted my children to go to Marquette badly -- and I told them their mother and I would find a way to pay for it if they did. But despite having a raving Marquette loyalist for a parent, Marquette was not right for our children, and they went where it was best for them and their needs (P.S. -- my daughter is still a die-hard Warrior fan!).
Having a great basketball team matters (c'mon Wojo, you need to be back in the Top 10 ASAP!) because it gets people to look at a school. We were a much more diverse school when Al was head coach and we were Top 5 than we were when Dukiet was head coach and we were nowhere to be found. That's why the university under Father Wild recommitted itself to Warrior basketball. Most people won't come to us because the basketball program is great, but it might get them to look.
Ultimately, it's what comes out and how they do in the world that really matters.
Good stuff. I did not want my offspring to go to MU, yet one did. Maybe better said, I wanted them to explore other options which they had many. MU was an after thought for them, but as scholarship money started coming in, school visits, size, comfort, urban, etc, it became the right fit.
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Regarding this 74% acceptance rate. Consider these two schools ....
http://admissions.nd.edu/apply/admission-statistics/
19,566 APPLICATIONS
3,700 ADMITTED
2,050 ENROLLED
YIELD 55% (% of accepted that enrolled)
https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/marquette-university/applying/entering-class-stats/
Acceptance and Enrollment Stats (Fall 2016)
Applicant Total 20,486
Accepted 15,202
Enrolled 1,876
Yield 12.3%
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The reason MU's acceptance rate is so high is that its yield (% of accepted students that enroll) is so low. To get 1 student to enroll it has to accept 8 kids. ND has to accept 2 kids to get 1 to enroll.
Does MU need more applications? No, it gets more than ND now, it does a good job on this front What MU needs is the right students, the ones that will actually enroll. THat is why its strategy of focusing on the Jesuit schools in the midwest is smart. They visit the school and enroll.
Once its yield goes up the acceptance rate can start going way down.
If you look at Fordham University's yield it's about 7 percentage points lower than ours, yet their acceptance rate was only 47% in 2016. Granted they had twice as many applicants as we did (40K for them vs 20K for us) even though their incoming class is only marginally more than ours. They take like 2200 vs our 2000.
The Fordham student paper had an interesting article about their acceptance rate stagnation despite the huge increase in applicants. This article is from a couple of years ago, but it's great that the students there are taking this seriously. Would love to see the Trib do something similar
https://fordhamram.com/2015/09/16/is-fordhams-stagnant-acceptance-rate-holding-back-its-reputation/
Other than the obvious factor of a much larger population in the Northeast does anybody have any other insight as to why a very similar Catholic university has twice as many applicants as we do?
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If you look at Fordham University's yield it's about 7 percentage points lower than ours, yet their acceptance rate was only 47% in 2016. Granted they had twice as many applicants as we did (40K for them vs 20K for us) even though their incoming class is only marginally more than ours. They take like 2200 vs our 2000.
The Fordham student paper had an interesting article about their acceptance rate stagnation despite the huge increase in applicants. This article is from a couple of years ago, but it's great that the students there are taking this seriously. Would love to see the Trib do something similar
https://fordhamram.com/2015/09/16/is-fordhams-stagnant-acceptance-rate-holding-back-its-reputation/
Other than the obvious factor of a much larger population in the Northeast does anybody have any other insight as to why a very similar Catholic university has twice as many applicants as we do?
Fordham's student care about a worthless stat just like you. Go recruit for them instead. Obviously you'd be a better fit for them.
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Other than the obvious factor of a much larger population in the Northeast does anybody have any other insight as to why a very similar Catholic university has twice as many applicants as we do?
With all due respect, what part of "Marquette only targets students who are likely to meet their admissions criteria" are you having trouble understanding?
If Fordham has 40K applications and only accepts 47% of them, that means they had to go through the entire admissions process for over 21,000 applicants who did not meet their standards. How much do you think that costs? Other than to meet the completely baseless metric of a third party, do you honestly think it is a prudent use of the university's resources?
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He doesn't get any of it. He just cares about the superficiality. Tiresome.
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Application fees more than cover the salaries and expenses of an entire admission office, hey?
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Application fees more than cover the salaries and expenses of an entire admission office, hey?
Um, no. Applying is free these days.
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Well, dat’s pretty stupid. How ‘bout revenue derived from da Common App, hey?
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Well, dat’s pretty stupid. How ‘bout revenue derived from da Common App, hey?
Too much competition. thousands of schools that will take your application for free why including all the top universities in the Ivy League's. Why do you think anyone would pay market $100 or $200 for an application?
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I dunno. Everywhere my kids applied, der wuz an app fee, hey?
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I dunno. Everywhere my kids applied, der wuz an app fee, hey?
That just what they told you...
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The yield is so low at Marquette because of the outrageous tuition cost. Marquette tuition without books and dorm fees is a crippling 38,000 dollars a year. With room and board it is 52,000 dollars a year, which is insane. Keep in mind that unlike other schools, marquette forces its' undergrads to live in the dorms for 2 years, meaning that 52k price is locked in for two years. madison by comparison has in-state tuition of 10k. No requirement to live in university of housing. Marquette is selling an inferior product for a much more expensive price.
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The yield is so low at Marquette because of the outrageous tuition cost. Marquette tuition without books and dorm fees is a crippling 38,000 dollars a year. With room and board it is 52,000 dollars a year, which is insane. Keep in mind that unlike other schools, marquette forces its' undergrads to live in the dorms for 2 years, meaning that 52k price is locked in for two years. madison by comparison has in-state tuition of 10k. No requirement to live in university of housing. Marquette is selling an inferior product for a much more expensive price.
Correct that the number 1 issue is cost.
I was told at the get together that the AVERAGE discount from the sticker price for MU tuition is 40%.
Also, the belief that Wild Hall will also increase the yield as that will be something that a 17-year old will find appealing more than Cobeen or McCormick.
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The yield is so low at Marquette because of the outrageous tuition cost. Marquette tuition without books and dorm fees is a crippling 38,000 dollars a year. With room and board it is 52,000 dollars a year, which is insane. Keep in mind that unlike other schools, marquette forces its' undergrads to live in the dorms for 2 years, meaning that 52k price is locked in for two years. madison by comparison has in-state tuition of 10k. No requirement to live in university of housing. Marquette is selling an inferior product for a much more expensive price.
Many, if not most of the private schools with higher yields than Marquette are more expensive than Marquette. That ain't it.
And I don't know if you have checked rents around campus lately, but living off campus these days probably only saves you a couple of thousand dollars at best. There are very few slum lords renting to MU students these days.
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I dunno. Everywhere my kids applied, der wuz an app fee, hey?
Apps mostly free or top out at about $50. A few are more, but a large number are free to $25 on common app. Actually a way to drive down acceptance rates by hoping many people apply.
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The yield is so low at Marquette because of the outrageous tuition cost. Marquette tuition without books and dorm fees is a crippling 38,000 dollars a year. With room and board it is 52,000 dollars a year, which is insane. Keep in mind that unlike other schools, marquette forces its' undergrads to live in the dorms for 2 years, meaning that 52k price is locked in for two years. madison by comparison has in-state tuition of 10k. No requirement to live in university of housing. Marquette is selling an inferior product for a much more expensive price.
MU is a bargain compared to many private schools and about equal to out of state tuition. My offspring received a large MU scholarship and the cost came out +/- 5% of every out of state Big Ten, Pac 12 and ACC school he was accepted to.
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South Siders weigh in on Cristo Rey's upcoming move to Clarke Square
"We liked the idea of being within reach of Marquette University. We liked being close to the public parks systems and near the Domes," said Josetti.
https://onmilwaukee.com/raisemke/articles/nns-cristo-rey-move-south-side.html
Upthread, Heisy mentioned Marquette's strategy of developing a connection to the Cristo Rey Network. I find it interesting that Cristo Rey Milwaukee specifically singled out proximity to MU as a principal advantage to its new location.
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South Siders weigh in on Cristo Rey's upcoming move to Clarke Square
"We liked the idea of being within reach of Marquette University. We liked being close to the public parks systems and near the Domes," said Josetti.
https://onmilwaukee.com/raisemke/articles/nns-cristo-rey-move-south-side.html
Upthread, Heisy mentioned Marquette's strategy of developing a connection to the Cristo Rey Network. I find it interesting that Cristo Rey Milwaukee specifically singled out proximity to MU as a principal advantage to its new location.
Well, Cristo Rey is a program run by the Jesuits, so....