Update on prof McAdams

[jficke13]

I'm not convinced any professor should have blanket immunity from dismissal for all but the most grievous of offenses. In other words: I'm skeptical of tenure as an employment system.

(yes I'm aware that unless ALL universities ended the practice NO universities will from an arms race perspective)

[jficke13]

Everyone has his price. At this point they should just pay McAdams to go away. It's about the only way that MU doesn't end up *looking* bad to everyone who will consume a biased reporting of this story.

[Ellenson Guerrero]

Everyone has his price. At this point they should just pay McAdams to go away. It's about the only way that MU doesn't end up *looking* bad to everyone who will consume a biased reporting of this story.

Please elucidate the non-biased reporting of this story for me.

[rocket surgeon]

Everyone has his price. At this point they should just pay McAdams to go away. It's about the only way that MU doesn't end up *looking* bad to everyone who will consume a biased reporting of this story.

I understand your point, however, don't miss the forest through the trees. Yes, mccadams will get his just compensation. bUT, this is bigger than $$.  There will be the conservatives using this as another example of getting the beat down.  And yes, we are going to hear many watered down versions of how this whole thing played out, but the reality of the situation will be conservative tenured professor fired for standing up for "freedom of speech". By the time the rest of the story gets played out, people will only have heard.......
Marquette could have taken the high ground, issued a reprimand of some sort making their stand official, then moving on semi-quietly. Say their part based on their mission statement and their adherence to it, voice their displeasures.  Advise the "bullies" who went way to far(extremists) to knock it off. Maybe have mccadams issue a statement that he does not advocate for that kind of reaction as it is just wrong and not how we solve problems

[rocket surgeon]

Isn't Marquette the same University that withdrew a legitimate job offer to a compelling candidate for the Deanship because they learned she was a lesbian????

yes, but fortunately or not for marquette, it was pointed out that she really had no qualifications for the position, so i think they decided to go with unqualified candidates for $50 alex rather than academia and the lgbt community for $1000 thus sparing them of the big D label...phew!!  flying a little close to the sun-I have a toothache so?

[wildbill sb]

"....Marquette could have taken the high ground, issued a reprimand of some sort making their stand official, then moving on semi-quietly. Say their part based on their mission statement and their adherence to it, voice their displeasures.  Advise the "bullies" who went way to far(extremists) to knock it off. Maybe have mccadams issue a statement that he does not advocate for that kind of reaction as it is just wrong and not how we solve problems."

I absolutely agree with RS (and Keefe earlier).  MU demonstrates a remarkable affinity for effing up PR problems.  On a much less important level the recent shabby treatment of Terri Mitchell also come to mind.

[WarriorInNYC]

When I first saw his blog post posted on fb a while ago, I noticed the headline and several comments and thought to myself, "wow, I can't believe MU is shutting up this professor due to his thoughts on gay marriage and the discussion around it".  I really don't care where anyone stands on that issue, but I always think that encouraging a discussion around it is generally productive.

So when I first started reading this, I was floored that MU was coming down on this guy.  I read his blog post about it and was shocked that it seemed they were outing him, and that the TA mishandled this.

And then I read an actual news article that gave more information.  Not only did he blast the TA, but he named her specifically.  That is what completely changed my perspective on this whole ordeal.  As a faculty member and an adult placed in a role model position, you simply cannot tear apart a student for the whole public to read, especially considering most of his readers are likely current/past MU students/staff.  He absolutely deserves this in every way.

Now, I still do think the TA mishandled the situation in the classroom and McAdams had a great opportunity here to provide her a valuable lesson.  But instead of handling this in private, he acted like a 12 year old girl who just got dumped and needed to tell the whole world about it.

[GGGG]

Did you read his Nov 9 post?  If a TA can't handle that level of criticism they shouldn't be involved in academia...

That's not for him to decide. 

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Have any of you actually read his blog posts? It's been a long time coming. He constantly rips fellow faculty, tells people to not take their class, etc. the guy is nuts

[GGGG]

I disagree. This case is dripping with political undertones. Anyone who tends to follow Roman Catholicism more dogmatically will have a stronger tendency to be appalled by the behavior of the TA first, and will forgive McAdams's transgressions on "journalistic necessity" grounds. Those who tend to agree with the TA's stance on gay marriage and feel that the anonymous student is a homophobic weasel will be more likely to interpret this situation against McAdams; they will consider him a bully with an axe to grind against the lesbian Department Chair and the "Vegan-feminist" Cheryl Abbate.

These preconceptions will influence the interpretation of the case.

Personally, I think Lovell's PR statement is dripping with bull, but I tend to believe what Holz wrote to McAdams. This is a case of death by one thousand cuts. Over time, McAdams has proven unable to restrain himself on his blog, and this situation is simply the tipping point. I think the ultra-liberal philosophy department lobbied Lovell to take this case to the bank and cash it, and he agreed with the department over McAdams's claim of tenure.

What better time to clean house than with a new President? Marquette administration has known for a long time that this guy is a headache, and quite frankly, hired or fired, the guy is going to generate negative PR against the University. I wouldn't be surprised if administration is thinking of this as a bit of a hedge:  the odds that McAdams will embroil himself in something even more inflammatory than this case in the future is probably pretty high! So why not fire him now, take the lumps, and avoid the next inevitable abortion-gay-Muslim flare up that might spin out of control?

That being said, I disagree with the decision. I think termination is one step too far. I get the feeling that McAdams is scared despite his outward blogging confidence. His recent statements have included more grammatical errors than usual, and his writing a bit more erratic. In other words, I think that the threat of termination would have been sufficient to control his behavior. But administration is going for the throat, and they're not going to balk at this point.

I feel that termination is one step too far because the whole issue presents such lively debate. Sure, close-minded trolls will claim there is no room for debate, but let's face it, this is an interesting set of facts. Let's start with the TA:  are faculty allowed to criticize her on the same terms as a normal faculty member? Probably not, because she is a student, but on the flip-side, I feel the the students should then have more access to the Department Chair, to openly present controversial decisions made by the TA. This would balance the equation. It sounds as if the little weaselly spy bastard (the one person in this whole thing I despise) didn't get a fair shake from Nancy Snow when he visited with her.  -- the conversation probably never had a chance, considering Snow's own preconceived notions about gay marriage, but I consider her a bad actor here because she should have granted more weight to a student bringing her concerns about a TA.

Next, McAdams. He made plenty of big-time mistakes in this matter, but I'll bet he never saw this one coming. He is operating under the impression that he is at liberty to pursue and publish these controversies under journalistic pretenses, but I think he is mistaken. His constant references to "Journalism 101" have no bearing on his relationship to Marquette's principles. The biggest mistake he made is forgetting who pays his salary -- it's the students, the customers. Lovell knows that the first order of business is to make Marquette an attractive place for students.

In the end, academic tenure has to mean something, and no amount of Lovell spin can change that. He made a business decision, and he appeased a long-standing wish of the philosophy department (ranked 97th in the nation...) to rid themselves of McAdams. He did it because the opportunity presented itself, and he did it to hedge against bigger future headaches. You might say this is as big as it can get, but I doubt it. Middle of winter, basketball team ain't hot right now, this won't go viral.

The reason Lovell's decision is wrong is simple in my mind:  tenure should protect faculty against statements and decisions that can be reasonably debated. McAdams's decision to go public about an issue of controversy is reasonable to many, including me, and his equating a TA to a faculty position (and thus crapping on her no differently than he has other faculty in his blogs), actually presents an interesting debate regarding the prevalence of TA leadership in the classroom, and how much actual faculty supervision is necessary to assure classroom integrity. McAdams may be a pompous ass, and he might very well be Professor McCrabby, but that shouldn't be enough. Academia does not equal the rest of the business world.

I pretty much agree with this.  His actions were wrong, and a reprimand was clearly in order, but I don't think you terminate your relationship with a 70 year old professor over this.  I wonder if his blog postings when the investigation started and he started publicly talking about the process were the last straw. 

That being said, I agree with you that the fall out from this will be minimal.  Belling and Sykes will get all lathered up, but in the end it won't matter all that much. 

[warriorchick]

 Not only did he blast the TA, but he named her specifically.  That is what completely changed my perspective on this whole ordeal.  As a faculty member and an adult placed in a role model position, you simply cannot tear apart a student for the whole public to read, especially considering most of his readers are likely current/past MU students/staff.  He absolutely deserves this in every way.

This.  This is the point many people aren't getting. 

My father called me from Nashville, all upset after hearing Mark Belling discuss the issue at length when he filled in for Rush Limbaugh (taking McAdam's position, natch).  What I said to my dad was. "If Dr. McAdams posted, 'I just read a research paper on end-of-life care written by [his granddaughter, a MU nursing student] and it was a steaming pile of worthless crap.  I certainly hope no state is stupid enough to give her a nursing license.', would you think the professor's behavior was appropriate?  Because that, at its core, is what he did to the philosophy TA."

This isn't about free speech.  It doesn't matter what the subject matter was.  It's that a professor publicly and unapologetically castigated a student.  And I say that as a person who, on the continuum of conservative to liberal, would probably be spooning Chicos.

[Tommy Brice for Coach]

Ya know what?  I just rethunk (sic) my comment on your post- you are right(my apologies)there probably will be a Fox News headlines and Rush Limbaugh, mark belling, Sean hannity, Megyn Kelly, et.al. Headlines...  I am not trying to bring politics into this but I am sorry to say, the reality is those are the headline stories that are going to have marquette's pr people working overtime

I do think you are right that this is something the conservative media outlets might latch on to and try to make a story out of. However, I think MU made a calculated decision here. Prospective students are not listening to talk radio, watching Fox News, etc - though definitely some alums that donate are.

MU made this decision because it would be least likely to impact future admissions numbers. Young people are particularly pro gay marriage, and MU doesn't want to have an image that they support someone who is not pro gay marriage. MU has calculated that the donations hit they will take from conservative alums is smaller than the cost of any potential hit to admissions numbers.

I don't know if this makes the decision to fire McAdams right or wrong. I'm all for academic freedom, I think it is important. However, a professor criticizing a TA on a blog is a no-no IMO. Additionally, it is the 21st century, and gay marriage is legal in 37 states. The tide has turned, and I do not believe that someone can have an opinion in a professional setting that is not accepting of LGBT rights.

[mu-rara]

I am a supporter of gay rights.  

I grew up Catholic and believed Catholic teaching on gay rights.  I have family members who "came out".  I love them and listened to them.  I studied the issues.  Eventually, I came to believe that traditional Catholic teaching on gay rights needs updating.

Open discussion is what opened my eyes.  If I had TA Abbatte as a teacher, I may have held on to my old beliefs.  I refuse to be backed into a corner.  I want open discussion.

This was an opportunity to teach and MU did what MU does.   Has MU ever had a significant PR opportunity that they did not totally  F  up?     Where were the rest of you McAdams bashers when Marquette withdrew the offer to hire the gay Dean?  Talk about having it both ways.

I don't agree with McAdams response, but firing is ridiculous. 

[GGGG]

Has MU ever had a significant PR opportunity that they did not totally  F  up?     

Believe me...this will not be a PR problem for Marquette.

[warriorchick]

I pretty much agree with this.  His actions were wrong, and a reprimand was clearly in order, but I don't think you terminate your relationship with a 70 year old professor over this.  I wonder if his blog postings when the investigation started and he started publicly talking about the process were the last straw. 

That being said, I agree with you that the fall out from this will be minimal.  Belling and Sykes will get all lathered up, but in the end it won't matter all that much. 

None of us have seen the rest of his personnel file. For all we know, he may have been officially warned previously.

[GGGG]

None of us have seen the rest of his personnel file. For all we know, he may have been officially warned previously.

Very true.  That is why I am not going to get all bent out of shape about this even though I disagree with given what is out there.

[mu-rara]

Believe me...this will not be a PR problem for Marquette.

Sultan,

I agree that the bias in media will tamp down a lot of negative PR for MU, and I'm sure that the PR team is counting on that.

[rocket surgeon]

I do think you are right that this is something the conservative media outlets might latch on to and try to make a story out of. However, I think MU made a calculated decision here. Prospective students are not listening to talk radio, watching Fox News, etc - though definitely some alums that donate are.

MU made this decision because it would be least likely to impact future admissions numbers. Young people are particularly pro gay marriage, and MU doesn't want to have an image that they support someone who is not pro gay marriage. MU has calculated that the donations hit they will take from conservative alums is smaller than the cost of any potential hit to admissions numbers.

I don't know if this makes the decision to fire McAdams right or wrong. I'm all for academic freedom, I think it is important. However, a professor criticizing a TA on a blog is a no-no IMO. Additionally, it is the 21st century, and gay marriage is legal in 37 states. The tide has turned, and I do not believe that someone can have an opinion in a professional setting that is not accepting of LGBT rights.

i'm not going to disagree with your opinion here, but with all do respect, this isn't about a tolerance for or against gay marriage.  rather, it's about the ability to discuss, debate, and/or hold ones personal opinion on gay marriage, the ability to debate the issue in a healthy way, and then, very importantly, not being shut down or labeled a bigot.  i believe most people are over gay marriage and could care less if it occurs(as it has) or not.  i think most of the debate over whether or not it is acceptable or not is related to how it is recognized from a benefits in a public work venue(government workers), benefits programs and if ones taxes go toward compensation issues such as insurances, pension funds, etc. for example.  regardless, there will still be a "freedom of speech" issue that will try to be resolved.  yes, i realize mu also has a handbook to abide by and there appear to be some violations.  this is a complex issue and that's the elephant in the room; it will keep this in the spotlight longer and the outcome(s) could have larger ramifications away from marquette.  could this set a precedent for tenure issues going forward?  if so, this legal scab could be picked at for longer than just the next few weeks and i'm sure that's not what the mu administration wants  

[rocket surgeon]

Believe me...this will not be a PR problem for Marquette.

 ?-(i think it already is

[GGGG]

Sultan,

I agree that the bias in media will tamp down a lot of negative PR for MU, and I'm sure that the PR team is counting on that.

Oh please.  Local media wouldn't give a damn about this if it were a conservative like McAdams or a professor as liberal as Nancy Snow.  I mean, how much of a "PR disaster" was it when Marquette withdrew the offer to the Liberal Arts dean?  After about a month, people moved on.  It had no real impact on donations, admissions or among the faculty.  This will be about the same.  

As someone who works in PR for a university, this really is nothing.  Belling and his ilk are easy to ignore, since they inflame quickly, but just as quickly move on.  The only way it becomes an issue is if it gets to the national media and becomes a "cause" somehow - or it causes major donors to withdraw their support.  (And it won't.  Most donors are acutely aware of how colleagues should treat one another in the workplace.)  News cycles are short.  Even a lawsuit isn't that big of a deal - everyone gets sued these days.

[GGGG]

?-(i think it already is

LOL...where?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Sultan,

I agree that the bias in media will tamp down a lot of negative PR for MU, and I'm sure that the PR team is counting on that.

Eh.

It's not so much about political bias as it is the modern news cycle.

This will get rinsed through the various outlets for a couple of days. There will be "outrage", and then everybody will likely move on.

[GGGG]

Eh.

It's not so much about political bias as it is the modern news cycle.

This will get rinsed through the various outlets for a couple of days. There will be "outrage", and then everybody will likely move on.

Exactly.  I have been involved in "PR disasters" a hell of a lot worse than this, and despite all the chicken littles worrying about it bleeding students or donations from the school, it simply didn't.  A few months later, everyone pretty much forgot about it, and year later we hit record enrollment.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Exactly.  I have been involved in "PR disasters" a hell of a lot worse than this, and despite all the chicken littles worrying about it bleeding students or donations from the school, it simply didn't.  A few months later, everyone pretty much forgot about it, and year later we hit record enrollment.

For better or worse, MU is a private institution, so money talks in a lot of cases.

If MU enrollment suddenly drops, or donations dry up because of McAdams being fired... MU will invite him back and give him a huge raise!

BUT... I wouldn't bet on that happening.

[GGGG]

For better or worse, MU is a private institution, so money talks in a lot of cases.

If MU enrollment suddenly drops, or donations dry up because of McAdams being fired... MU will invite him back and give him a huge raise!

BUT... I wouldn't bet on that happening.

Agreed on all counts...especially the last one.