Shumpert

[MUBasketball]

“I don’t feel pressure going somewhere because of a certain thing. I feel like if it’s not going to be the best fit and I’m not going to be happy at the school then I’m not going to go there. I want something that will set me up academically. The school has to be a school that, after I’m done with my degree, will take me somewhere. I also look at my relationship with the head coach and whether it’s a place I can take my game to the next level.”

Marquette has a fantastic academic reputation, and Crean develops talent as well as anybody in the game. I really hope he chooses MU.

[Henry Sugar]

Meh.  GT and UNC are arguably better than MU academically, if not at least equal.

MU has demonstrated it will meet all the criteria he states in his quote, but UNC will meet those criteria as well.

Obviously, I hope that Shumpert picks MU, but I can't really fault him for choosing UNC or GT.  Overall, Shumpert seems to be taking a very solid approach to recruiting.  Good for him.

[MUBasketball]

Meh.  GT and UNC are arguably better than MU academically, if not at least equal.

MU has demonstrated it will meet all the criteria he states in his quote, but UNC will meet those criteria as well.

Obviously, I hope that Shumpert picks MU, but I can't really fault him for choosing UNC or GT.  Overall, Shumpert seems to be taking a very solid approach to recruiting.  Good for him.

You're right Sugar, no question. My point was MU meets the criteria. Excellent education, and I'm sure he's close with Crean and he can be assured he will maximize his potential playing for Coach Crean (and he has a track record to back that up). We have everything he needs, so hopefully we can get him. Regardless, he will get a great education and basketball career wherever he goes.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

So the 2008-2009 line-up would something like:

Acker (assuming DJ goes pro)
McNeal
Matthews
Hayward
Mbakwe


Bench
Cooby Jr.
Williams
Shumpert
Christopherson
Hazel
Burke
Other (possible 08 big man)

That's a lot of talent. Still need to add a quality big, but if they get williams and shumpert... they are going to be pretty lethal.

[BuzzSucksSucks]

If we get Shumpert, I'd think he'd be starting at least by the end of the season as a frosh.

[muhoosier260]

assuming dj goes pro. also assuming mbakwe even makes it to campus.

[Henry Sugar]

assuming dj goes pro. also assuming mbakwe even makes it to campus.

All indications are that Mbakwe has completed the necessary requirements in full and is now just waiting on the NCAA to review. 

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

If we get Shumpert, I'd think he'd be starting at least by the end of the season as a frosh.

You might be right, but who does he replace?

Acker? I mean, maybe... but I'm assuming Acker is going to be pretty solid for MU.

You know he won't start over McNeal, or Matthews.


OH, also... just throwing this out there (purely speculative)... If DJ goes pro, MU will have 4 schollies to give. Could one of them be used for Bryce Webster? From all reports I read he is about to leave the Gophers.

I'm not sure where he will end up this year, but would it be worth taking a shot on a big kid who appeared to have some tools? I'm not sure what went wrong with Bryce at the U, but obviously it didn't work out. Maybe if he sits out a year he could come into MU and develop in 2008.

Just a thought... I have no insider information... just thinking out loud.

[mu03eng]

If we get Shumpert, I'd think he'd be starting at least by the end of the season as a frosh.

You might be right, but who does he replace?

Acker? I mean, maybe... but I'm assuming Acker is going to be pretty solid for MU.

You know he won't start over McNeal, or Matthews.

Don't rule out the possibility that Matthews or McNeal might have an outstanding Junior season this year and go early as well.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

If we get Shumpert, I'd think he'd be starting at least by the end of the season as a frosh.

You might be right, but who does he replace?

Acker? I mean, maybe... but I'm assuming Acker is going to be pretty solid for MU.

You know he won't start over McNeal, or Matthews.

Don't rule out the possibility that Matthews or McNeal might have an outstanding Junior season this year and go early as well.

I agree with you... but I didn't want to type it because I don't want to jinx it. I actually think Matthews has some NBA potential given his size and skill-set... but he will have to improve his defense and 3pt. shooting. He's already pretty good in most areas, but to get drafted you have to be excellent in several areas.

McNeal is a freak with his energy and can dominate games, but I'm not sure if NBA teams think he has enough size to get drafted after his junior year.

Who knows though...

[79Warrior]

So I have this straight, one of the top 15 players in the country is down to


North Carolina
Georgia Tech
Marquette


Damn, some of the posters on this site are right...our recruiting sure does suck.   

I have 2 words for you.
Bobby
Frasor.

whether he's panned out or not is open to debate.
but this situation could sure rival that, when BF seemed ready to come to MU then UNC swaggered into the room late and said, we'll take that one!

not holding my breath.
but recruiting is all about finishing.

Yup, and Bobby is now on the bench not playing and we got Dominic James instead.  Perhaps Mr. Shumpert will also see that.   

That is not true. Frasor lost his starting gig, but he absolutely plays.

[bma725]

So I have this straight, one of the top 15 players in the country is down to


North Carolina
Georgia Tech
Marquette


Damn, some of the posters on this site are right...our recruiting sure does suck.   

I have 2 words for you.
Bobby
Frasor.

whether he's panned out or not is open to debate.
but this situation could sure rival that, when BF seemed ready to come to MU then UNC swaggered into the room late and said, we'll take that one!

not holding my breath.
but recruiting is all about finishing.

Yup, and Bobby is now on the bench not playing and we got Dominic James instead.  Perhaps Mr. Shumpert will also see that.   

That is not true. Frasor lost his starting gig, but he absolutely plays.

He averaged under 8 minutes a game since coming back from his injury, that's a pretty big drop off from being the starting PG

[ChicosBailBonds]

Fair enough.  He is playing, but sparingly.  10.1 minutes per game.  The year prior he was at 27.5 minutes per game.  His playing time has been dramatically cut.

[NYWarrior]

Don't rule out the possibility that Matthews or McNeal might have an outstanding Junior season this year and go early as well.

gimme a break, these are four-year collegians. 

I'm pretty sure there's not a market 6-2 shooting guards who can't shoot and are exceptionally turnover prone.  As for Wesley, lets see how much his handle and defensive lateral quickness improved in the off-season.

[Harrison]

thanks for stepping in NY, at times I think I have to be the voice of reason...

here's one....too...  "I actually think Matthews has some NBA potential given his size and skill-set..."

are you serious...6' 4/5"  is actually a pretty small 2 guard in the NBA,  guys that size that get in at the 2 can hanlde the rock and pass almost like a PG, can shoot the lights out or are simply explosive with the dribble.  Name one of those attributes that wesley posseses?  He is a very fine college player  but unless he shows the greatest year to year improvemnt I have ever seen he is a 4 year player.  Even after 4 years he is hardly a lock to get drafted, a russel carter type IMO.

Smae with Mcneal...while he is closer ....like NY says a cant shoot 2g that turns it over due to aloose handle and poor decision making needs to improve greatly. 
Potential is there for both but they are farther away than they are closer.

those type of comments are akin to the other side of the spectrum when people say Cubillan, Chrsitopherson and Acker will replace the 3 amigos with out a droppoff.  My goodness!

[NYWarrior]

thanks for stepping in NY, at times I think I have to be the voice of reason...

here's one....too...  "I actually think Matthews has some NBA potential given his size and skill-set..."

are you serious...6' 4/5"  is actually a pretty small 2 guard in the NBA,

I mostly agree.......though Wesley's body type and some of his skills remind me of a big PG like Aaron McKie.  If Wesley can improve his handle and lateral quickness, I think he's got a fair shot at the NBA.  He has a ton of work to do, but he's taken big leaps in his first two collegiate seasons......so what the heck.  Either way, he's a four year player - - just like McNeal.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

thanks for stepping in NY, at times I think I have to be the voice of reason...

here's one....too...  "I actually think Matthews has some NBA potential given his size and skill-set..."

are you serious...6' 4/5"  is actually a pretty small 2 guard in the NBA,  guys that size that get in at the 2 can hanlde the rock and pass almost like a PG, can shoot the lights out or are simply explosive with the dribble.  Name one of those attributes that wesley posseses?  He is a very fine college player  but unless he shows the greatest year to year improvemnt I have ever seen he is a 4 year player.  Even after 4 years he is hardly a lock to get drafted, a russel carter type IMO.

Smae with Mcneal...while he is closer ....like NY says a cant shoot 2g that turns it over due to aloose handle and poor decision making needs to improve greatly. 
Potential is there for both but they are farther away than they are closer.

those type of comments are akin to the other side of the spectrum when people say Cubillan, Chrsitopherson and Acker will replace the 3 amigos with out a droppoff.  My goodness!

Well, like I said in my post, I like Wesley's size and skill set because I think it fits the NBA mold (6' 5" very good athlete).

I also said that he does a lot of things well, but needs to become excellent in several areas before he would be NBA ready. I don't think Wesley will be in the NBA after his junior year... but I wouldn't count him out for getting drafted after his senior year. Remember, the kid hasn't even played a min. as a junior yet... so it's tough to say that he definitely can't do it. I don't expect McNeal or Matthews to get drafted after this year, but I'm not counting it out.

Harrison, you seem like a bright guy (honest). But, can you explain to me why you see highly ranked high schoolers are sure fire bets to succeed in college (even though they haven't played a min. their senior year of highs school)... yet you can't see that McNeal and Matthews may improve enough over the next 2 seasons to have a shot at the NBA?

I mean, both claims are purely speculative at best, but you seem so sure on the high schoolers success, and so sure on McNeal and Matthews failure to make the NBA. Am I missing something?

[MUfan12]

Wouldn't be so sure about Mbakwe yet, he is not registered as a student and classes are less than 3 weeks away. If he doesn't get cleared soon there's a chance we won't see him until second semester.

[muarmy81]

thanks for stepping in NY, at times I think I have to be the voice of reason...

here's one....too...  "I actually think Matthews has some NBA potential given his size and skill-set..."

are you serious...6' 4/5"  is actually a pretty small 2 guard in the NBA,

I mostly agree.......though Wesley's body type and some of his skills remind me of a big PG like Aaron McKie.  If Wesley can improve his handle and lateral quickness, I think he's got a fair shot at the NBA.  He has a ton of work to do, but he's taken big leaps in his first two collegiate seasons......so what the heck.  Either way, he's a four year player - - just like McNeal.

You also gotta consider the fact that Wes missed a good portion of his freshman season so he's basically a year behind the other two in terms of experience so to overcome that He'll have to utilize that final year to improve to the point where he could be an NBA type player.  I completely agree about the lateral quickness and ball handling.  Since I'm in Atlanta I only get to see the ESPN games and of those games he seemed kind of slow on the defensive end and lost the handle on several occasions while basically trying to clear out of the lane.  Either way I'd like to see him improve to the point where he gets drafted cuz the more MU grads in the NBA the better!

[Harrison]

to mu2002alum....

Thanks for asking...My response was do to the comments that were made whereby someone said that if he has a good season we might lose Mcneal after 3 years.  You then chimed in saying that you agree but dont want to jinx anything and that you actually think Wesley could to do to his athleticism and "SKILL-SET".

Now maybe I confused who said what but first NY and then I completely disagree.  Myself most particularly with the ..."skill set".
IMO that is wesley's weakest aprt of his game...at this point Wesley is a great athlete(they all are at this level)  and he would be good in anything athletic.  However, he is not a gret basketball player his "skill-set" is actually quite poor.  Whether it was due to spending alot of time with other sports his "skill-set" is a little weak.  he does not pass, shoot or in particualr handle the ball anywhere near the level of an NBA 12th man at the 1 or 2.  Very loose dribble.  He needs to spend 1-2 hours a day with 1 or 2 basketballs doing the spiders, crab walk, kills, butterflies, shuffles, kills etc. to really develop that handle, as an observer he has not spent the tens of thousnads of hours doing that.  Therefore the talent is there but he needs to develop that skill set particualry as a ball handler to play at a higher level in college and then maybe maybe in the NBA.

Now in answer to your question on high school recruits it is really pretty simple.  First of all with AAu ball there are not too many hidden gems...at least not really at the High D1 level.  Sure there are always kids that blossom grow etc.  But that is not the issue.  teh issue is of the 1000's of kids playing u-17/Senior AAU the kids that get the top 50 ranking s are legit!!  They are athletic enough and skilled enough to be 4 year college starters.  If you are that good you are typically good enough to come in aplay right away...see Jerel and DJ, See Diener, See Wade and Mason.  These players have a higher upsideif they are willing to wrork as hard as a less athletic player with possibly a leasser skill set as well they will improve at an equal rate and continue to be better during that sophomore, junior, etc seasons.  The top 50 players are at a whole other level.  Look at Scottie Reynolds.  Those guys are difference makers.  I will even say if Wesley had a better skill set coming out of high school he would have been a mcd's AA his skill set is holding him back..the athleticism is there.   

[muwarrior87]

if you look at him throughout hs and here at MU, it's pretty obvious he has the athleticism. Playing soccer in hs may have slowed down his growth as a ball handler, etc in basketball since soccer is a fall sport and bball is winter. He was in another sport the months leading up to bball season so I'm sure he didn't practice his dribbling and shot from August to October as he does the rest of the year which probably did slow down his development in these areas. I think what spartan is trying to say is that he's got the potential with all of these areas (dribbling, shot, lateral movement, etc) to grow and make it in the NBA.  He is probably the most complete player we have in that he does have all of the tool to make him great, albeit he doesn't excel at any one or two things the way McNeal does w/ his defensive ability or Fitz does with his shot. But he is athletic enough to get it done at this level. He still has 2 more seasons to go most likely and can do a lot of growing from now to then.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

to mu2002alum....

Thanks for asking...My response was do to the comments that were made whereby someone said that if he has a good season we might lose Mcneal after 3 years.  You then chimed in saying that you agree but dont want to jinx anything and that you actually think Wesley could to do to his athleticism and "SKILL-SET".

Now maybe I confused who said what but first NY and then I completely disagree.  Myself most particularly with the ..."skill set".
IMO that is wesley's weakest aprt of his game...at this point Wesley is a great athlete(they all are at this level)  and he would be good in anything athletic.  However, he is not a gret basketball player his "skill-set" is actually quite poor.  Whether it was due to spending alot of time with other sports his "skill-set" is a little weak.  he does not pass, shoot or in particualr handle the ball anywhere near the level of an NBA 12th man at the 1 or 2.  Very loose dribble.  He needs to spend 1-2 hours a day with 1 or 2 basketballs doing the spiders, crab walk, kills, butterflies, shuffles, kills etc. to really develop that handle, as an observer he has not spent the tens of thousnads of hours doing that.  Therefore the talent is there but he needs to develop that skill set particualry as a ball handler to play at a higher level in college and then maybe maybe in the NBA.

Now in answer to your question on high school recruits it is really pretty simple.  First of all with AAu ball there are not too many hidden gems...at least not really at the High D1 level.  Sure there are always kids that blossom grow etc.  But that is not the issue.  teh issue is of the 1000's of kids playing u-17/Senior AAU the kids that get the top 50 ranking s are legit!!  They are athletic enough and skilled enough to be 4 year college starters.  If you are that good you are typically good enough to come in aplay right away...see Jerel and DJ, See Diener, See Wade and Mason.  These players have a higher upsideif they are willing to wrork as hard as a less athletic player with possibly a leasser skill set as well they will improve at an equal rate and continue to be better during that sophomore, junior, etc seasons.  The top 50 players are at a whole other level.  Look at Scottie Reynolds.  Those guys are difference makers.  I will even say if Wesley had a better skill set coming out of high school he would have been a mcd's AA his skill set is holding him back..the athleticism is there.   

Hmmm...

See, I guess I just see Wes differently. I like his athletic ability and I see him more as a jack of all trades but master of none at this point. He's not great at any of these things, but he can rebound, shoot the mid-range, shoot the 3, get active in the open floor (seen him go coast to coast several times), and he has the athletic ability to become a good defender. I don't think he is polished in any of those areas, but I think he has skills in each of those areas and thus the term "skill set". Maybe I wasn't clear before when I was referring to his skills.

As for his "loose handle" that everybody sees... I'm just not sure if it's as real as you claim. He was the the back-up PG to DJ his frosh. year before he got hurt (then it was Fitz). I mean, it wasn't his pure position, but he did a lot of ball handling in those sets. I'm not saying he doesn't need work, but I think his handle isn't as bad as some people think.

I guess my point is this:

We are all just speculating here, but I don't get how you speculate on a bunch of high schoolers (that you haven't seen play) being great players in D1 hoops. Yet, you can't possibly imagine 2 guys (who we see play a lot) improving greatly in the next 1-2 seasons and having a shot at the league.

I'm not saying it's likely they make it, I'm just saying its possible that they could make it.

They obviously have a lot of talent and have shown it at this level. They still need to improve to make it happen, but I'm not discounting that. DJ obviously wasn't ready this year, and he still was trying to make a run at it. Maybe Wes and Jerel will try the same thing. I don't really know.

You seem so sure about top 50 high school talent being successful in college, but you can't see that Wes and/or Jerel could improve enough over the next 1-2 seasons to have a shot at getting drafted?

[muwarrior87]

one thing w/ wesley is that he dribbles off his legs and feet at times. Not so much a loose dribble as just being clumsy w/ the ball.

[Harrison]

"one thing w/ wesley is that he dribbles off his legs and feet at times. Not so much a loose dribble as just being clumsy w/ the ball."

  .......Oh.....Ok. .....

[Harrison]

muwarrior87 ...i total agree with you and that is basically what i said...what disagreed with was the comment..."wesley might be able to leave after this year due to his skill set"