Pile on Bucky!

[ChicosBailBonds]

You keep changing the topic.  I am arguing that Becky underperforms.  You think they should be happy getting to the tournament.  Where are the high expectations.  If Buzz had BoBo's NCAA record, you would hang him as high as possible.

If you admit Becky has underperformed, I will acknowledge how wonderful 14 straight tournament appearances is.

Actually you couldn't be more wrong.  For 10+ years on every MU board I've said the same thing....the NCAA Tournament is a crap shoot.  I would not hang him high as possible and resent the charge.  It's about matchups, where you play, etc, etc.  So you couldn't be more wrong on that charge.  Now, when we blow 15 point leads in the second half of a tournament game...yeah...that pisses me off.

No, I don't think Becky has underperformed considering what their talent level is.  They don't have the talent we do or of may other teams.  I'm sure someone will come here and say look at all these top 100 guys they have...of course the reality is they really don't and most were ranked 80 to 100.  Year in and year out they have less talent in the Big Ten than any of the top 6 teams but they finish in the top 3 just about each year...that's outperforming.

What you are arguing is that they are under performing based on their seed....fine.  I won't deny that, but if you really think the NCAA committed gets these seeds correct you're nuts.  If Butler ends up in the Final Four again, does that mean every team that lost to them in the tournament "underperformed"?  Really?  Or is it that Butler was a good team and seeded incorrectly?  Or was it that Wisconsin and the teams they played were OVERSEEDED?  Your argument lies SOLELY on the idea of what a committee assigned a seed to and ignores the reality of what happens on the court.

[Lennys Tap]

You keep changing the topic.  I am arguing that Becky underperforms.  You think they should be happy getting to the tournament.  Where are the high expectations.  If Buzz had BoBo's NCAA record, you would hang him as high as possible.

If you admit Becky has underperformed, I will acknowledge how wonderful 14 straight tournament appearances is.

In the past 6 years UW has been a 4th seed or better 4 times. Their NCAA record is 7-6 with 2 sweet 16s, three "32s" and 1 first round loss. Their losses have come at the hands of team with a higher than 8 seed average. All have been routs - not a competitive, close loss in any of the six. Yet for Chicos, they're who we want to be when we grow up. If Buzz stays (he's currently 3-2 in tournament games with 2 very competitive losses) I'll expect better.

[MUMac]

+1,000,000,000

This is without question what irritates me the most about Badger fans.  I have no problems with the fans that actually attended Madison...they have every right to cheer for their school as I do for MU.  It's all the other wannabes that somehow find a way to associate themselves with Madison.

I know quite a few MU fans who are very loyal and cheer hardily for MU that never thought of attending MU or lived in Milwaukee.  I, personally, call them MU fans and supporters.  I welcome them and want more of them.  I try not to cast negatively upon them because the matriculated elsewhere. 

Why should that be different for UW?

[ChicosBailBonds]

In the past 6 years UW has been a 4th seed or better 4 times. Their NCAA record is 7-6 with 2 sweet 16s, three "32s" and 1 first round loss. Their losses have come at the hands of team with a higher than 8 seed average. All have been routs - not a competitive, close loss in any of the six. Yet for Chicos, they're who we want to be when we grow up. If Buzz stays (he's currently 3-2 in tournament games with 2 very competitive losses) I'll expect better.

The problem is, can Buzz get us to a position of 4 or better seed?  That's the problem with your argument and others....we don't even get there to dispute we would do better.  Secondly, you're relying on the seeding system (which is hardly scientific by any stretch of the imagination) to determine who is the better team.  That's pure crap.  They get some seeds right and blow a lot of them, but you're using that system to hinge your entire argument rather than simply looking to see who the better team is. 

[MUMac]

The problem is, can Buzz get us to a position of 4 or better seed?  That's the problem with your argument and others....we don't even get there to dispute we would do better.  Secondly, you're relying on the seeding system (which is hardly scientific by any stretch of the imagination) to determine who is the better team.  That's pure crap.  They get some seeds right and blow a lot of them, but you're using that system to hinge your entire argument rather than simply looking to see who the better team is. 

The first part, in bold, contradicts the second part.

[Pakuni]

Actually you couldn't be more wrong.  For 10+ years on every MU board I've said the same thing....the NCAA Tournament is a crap shoot.  I would not hang him high as possible and resent the charge.  It's about matchups, where you play, etc, etc.  So you couldn't be more wrong on that charge.  Now, when we blow 15 point leads in the second half of a tournament game...yeah...that pisses me off.

OK, fine it's about excuses matchups.
Let's see, in Bo era we've seen Bucky lose tourney games to:
- a slow, methodical team like Butler
- a guard-oriented team like Davidson
- a smaller, quick team like UNLV
- a larger, physical team like Pitt
- a team that shots a lot of threes like Cornell
- a team that didn't shoot a lot like (2003) Kentucky

Seems like whatever matchup they encounter, they can struggle.

[lab_warrior]

You know what would be illuminating for this, "Pile on Bucky" aka "Q&A w/Chicos, re: Wisconsin basketball" thread, would be to see the record/finishes of the top 4 seeds for the last oh, let's say decade or so, and how Wisconsin fares in comparison?  

[MUMac]

You know what would be illuminating for this, "Pile on Bucky" aka "Q&A w/Chicos, re: Wisconsin basketball" thread ...  

  

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Enough of the rodents.  We have an NCAA game tonight!
Go Marquette!

[MUMac]

Enough of the rodents.  We have an NCAA game tonight!
Go Marquette!

I just can't focus on tonight.  Nervous anxiousness ... Need something other than Buzz to OU to occupy the mind.

[Lennys Tap]

What you are arguing is that they are under performing based on their seed....fine.  I won't deny that, but if you really think the NCAA committed gets these seeds correct you're nuts.  If Butler ends up in the Final Four again, does that mean every team that lost to them in the tournament "underperformed"?  Really?  Or is it that Butler was a good team and seeded incorrectly?  Or was it that Wisconsin and the teams they played were OVERSEEDED?  Your argument lies SOLELY on the idea of what a committee assigned a seed to and ignores the reality of what happens on the court.

You defend Bucky's consistently easier paths by saying they deserved them, they earned those better seeds. And when they lose to lower seeds you again defend them, submitting that the committee does a crappy job of seeding. Funny how you contradict yourself to put UW in the best possible light. LOL

As to where Butler deserved to be seeded, I'd say 8 (given their season) was about right. They made 12 3's to capaltilize on their one in ten chance to beat Pitt, then returned to normal, played a blah, mediocre game and whipped a UW team that played PUTRID. Where do you think they deserved to be seeded?

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

I just can't focus on tonight.  Nervous anxiousness ... Need something other than Buzz to OU to occupy the mind.

Ditto

[Stuckin1977]

If Buzz sticks around a few more years, we'll likely become a much better team and draw more 3-seeds and 4-seeds in the tournament which means making the Sweet 16 and beyond will become a regularity.

In 5 years we should be on par with or above Wisconsin based on track record.

[ChicosBailBonds]

So do you really believe VCU is playing like an 11 seed? Or are they playing like a top 4 seed?  That's the key.  You can't just blindly go in and look at the seeds and say the higher seed should automatically win.  Doesn't work that way, otherwise why have the tournament? 

I find it a little bit ironic that the same people harping on the "under performance" by this particular higher seed saw things 180 degrees differently when analyzing the Big East top seeds getting knocked off....ironic indeed.

[NersEllenson]

If Buzz sticks around a few more years, we'll likely become a much better team and draw more 3-seeds and 4-seeds in the tournament which means making the Sweet 16 and beyond will become a regularity.

In 5 years we should be on par with or above Wisconsin based on track record.

Careful - You cannot judge a coach until after 5 years, and secondly for taking this optimistic approach to Buzz's results thus far, and what you see possible in the future...you will be labeled a "fan boy." 

[Lennys Tap]

So do you really believe VCU is playing like an 11 seed? Or are they playing like a top 4 seed?  That's the key.  You can't just blindly go in and look at the seeds and say the higher seed should automatically win.  Doesn't work that way, otherwise why have the tournament? 

I find it a little bit ironic that the same people harping on the "under performance" by this particular higher seed saw things 180 degrees differently when analyzing the Big East top seeds getting knocked off....ironic indeed.

Chicos, sometimes you are just too much. Of course VCU (and Butler, Florida St, Arizona, Richmond and Marquette) are performing better than their seeds, just as Duke, Pitt, San Diego St, Notre Dame, BYU, Wisconsin underperformed theirs.

I never said anything different. I never said the Big East didn't underperform. Only that UW did and seems to have developed a pattern of doing so over the last six years. But instead of admitting the contradictions and ironies of your own statements your response is "Somebody else did too", an all too common argument that does nothing to legitimize yours. Is admitting a mistake or an inconsistancy so difficult?

[Pakuni]

So do you really believe VCU is playing like an 11 seed? Or are they playing like a top 4 seed?  That's the key.  You can't just blindly go in and look at the seeds and say the higher seed should automatically win.  Doesn't work that way, otherwise why have the tournament? 

"The committee never gets it wrong by definition.  They are God on this stuff."

- Chico'sBailBonds

[RawdogDX]

Chicos, How's it going buddy?

If I were to poll WI fans the following question, what do you think their answer would be and should be.

How concerned are you about your teams chances to get to another Elite 8?
1) I'm very confident that we will get to another elite 8 in the next 5 years.
2) I'm somewhat confident.
3) I'm not confident but think we have a good shot.
4) I'm somewhat concerned that it would take some luck to get the right opponents.
5) I'm very concerned that it would take another 'once in a lifetime' line up of low seeds to get the match ups we need.

I would think that their avg answer would be about a 3.2 and I would say fans should be at a 4.  This has nothing to do with MU so please don't bring them up.  I'll bet they are the least confident of any program who thinks it's top 15 over the last decade.  This is because despite their great regular seasons (which you keep pointing out) and their high seeds (also a topic you brought up) they have underperformed in March.  The better they have been in the regular season the easier it is to make this argument.  

[brewcity77]

Chicos, How's it going buddy?

If I were to poll WI fans the following question, what do you think their answer would be and should be.

How concerned are you about your teams chances to get to another Elite 8?
1) I'm very confident that we will get to another elite 8 in the next 5 years.
2) I'm somewhat confident.
3) I'm not confident but think we have a good shot.
4) I'm somewhat concerned that it would take some luck to get the right opponents.
5) I'm very concerned that it would take another 'once in a lifetime' line up of low seeds to get the match ups we need.

I would think that their avg answer would be about a 3.2 and I would say fans should be at a 4.  This has nothing to do with MU so please don't bring them up.  I'll bet they are the least confident of any program who thinks it's top 15 over the last decade.  This is because despite their great regular seasons (which you keep pointing out) and their high seeds (also a topic you brought up) they have underperformed in March.  The better they have been in the regular season the easier it is to make this argument.  

I disagree. So many UW fans I know seem to think they are legitimate national title contenders regardless of their weak NCAA resume over the past decade, and any time they hit the top 15, all I hear is how they can go all the way and how they're a Final Four team.

Look at the other teams that have made the tourney every year in the past decade:

Kansas: 1 Final Four, 1 runner-up, 1 title
Duke: 1 Final Fours, 2 titles
Michigan State: 3 Final Fours, 1 runner-up
Texas: 1 Final Four, 2 Elite 8s
Wisconsin: 1 Elite 8, 3 Sweet 16s
Gonzaga: 3 Sweet 16s
Pittsburgh: 1 Elite 8, 4 Sweet 16s

Wisconsin is a good team, but nothing there indicates they are a legitimate contender alongside teams like Kansas, Duke, and Michigan State. They're more Pitt or Gonzaga than Duke or Kansas.

[RawdogDX]

Fixed per brew city.

Chicos, How's it going buddy?

If I were to poll rational, well educated WI fans the following question, what do you think their answer would be and should be.

How concerned are you about your teams chances to get to another Elite 8?
1) I'm very confident that we will get to another elite 8 in the next 5 years.
2) I'm somewhat confident.
3) I'm not confident but think we have a good shot.
4) I'm somewhat concerned that it would take some luck to get the right opponents.
5) I'm very concerned that it would take another 'once in a lifetime' line up of low seeds to get the match ups we need.

I would think that their avg answer would be about a 3.2 and I would say fans should be at a 4.  This has nothing to do with MU so please don't bring them up.  I'll bet they are the least confident of any program who thinks it's top 15 over the last decade.  This is because despite their great regular seasons (which you keep pointing out) and their high seeds (also a topic you brought up) they have underperformed in March.  The better they have been in the regular season the easier it is to make this argument.  

[brewcity77]

Fixed per brew city.

Not many of those that I've met.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Careful - You cannot judge a coach until after 5 years, and secondly for taking this optimistic approach to Buzz's results thus far, and what you see possible in the future...you will be labeled a "fan boy." 

He didn't predict a final 4, that's your turf.