Newbill article

[muwarrior87]

Sure is, and I love the guards....just seems like we have a lot of them to take a 1 \ 3 star guy for that position.  Maybe the ratings are way behind schedule.  That is my hope.  Or maybe something else is will make itself known (I don't have any information on that). 

I think a kid has to be pretty good to put up 64 points in a high school game, regarding the competition.  I would guess the rankings aren't up to date or he hasn't been looked at by the people that do the rankings.  He doesn't even show up on  ESPN so I'm guessing he hasn't been looked at if he isn't even in their database.

[NersEllenson]

Sure is, and I love the guards....just seems like we have a lot of them to take a 1 \ 3 star guy for that position.  Maybe the ratings are way behind schedule.  That is my hope.  Or maybe something else is will make itself known (I don't have any information on that). 

I think the fact that IWB rated Newbill as the 4th best senior at MU's elite camp behind Blue, Black and Pinkston - speaks quite highly of Newbill's upside.  We probably need to get over the significance of Rivals/Scout 1/3 star ratings...and trust that what Buzz (and Bob Huggins) saw, was enough to make them offer the kid.  Also props to Pakuni on:
When all's said and done, I suspect Buzz liked the upside of Newbill as an apparently still-growing wing option more than he liked what he believes he could get from a second big man in the spring.

[StillAWarrior]

I would guess the rankings aren't up to date or he hasn't been looked at by the people that do the rankings.  He doesn't even show up on  ESPN so I'm guessing he hasn't been looked at if he isn't even in their database.

Clearly, you're right.  But that raises the question: why wasn't he being looked at?  How does a kid from Philly go from being a relative unknown who isn't even listed by these recruiting sites to a Big East scholarship?  I don't think I'm being critical of either Buzz or DJ Newbill if I say that this is odd.

That said, welcome to the family, DJ.  I hope you like it at Marquette and I hope you have a great basketball career at MU and earn a degree.


Edited to add:  I'm not trying to make any judgments about Newbill's talent.  I've never seen him play and have no idea how good he is.  I'm just saying I think it's odd that he was apparently under the radar.  I'm not saying that the fact that he was under the radar means he's not a good player.  Maybe he deserves four stars.  I have absolutely no idea.  I just know that once he puts on our uniform, I hope he kicks ass.

[Pakuni]

We probably need to get over the significance of Rivals/Scout 1/3 star ratings...and trust that what Buzz (and Bob Huggins) saw, was enough to make them offer the kid.

There's the key point for me.
If Newbill were a one-star (or three-star) player who had offers from only the likes of LaSalle, Drexel and Rider, I think concerns that Buzz walked into another Brett Roseboro situation would be well-founded.
But the fact Huggins apparently was interested enough to offer eases a lot of those concerns, at least for me. Huggy Bear isn't infallible either, but he's been around long enough - and has a solid enough reputation as a talent evaluator - that even if I didn't trust Buzz, I'd trust him (this, obviously, pertains only to talent evaluation, not character evaluation).

[muwarrior87]

Clearly, you're right.  But that raises the question: why wasn't he being looked at?  How does a kid from Philly go from being a relative unknown who isn't even listed by these recruiting sites to a Big East scholarship?  I don't think I'm being critical of either Buzz or DJ Newbill if I say that this is odd.

That said, welcome to the family, DJ.  I hope you like it at Marquette and I hope you have a great basketball career at MU and earn a degree.


Edited to add:  I'm not trying to make any judgments about Newbill's talent.  I've never seen him play and have no idea how good he is.  I'm just saying I think it's odd that he was apparently under the radar.  I'm not saying that the fact that he was under the radar means he's not a good player.  Maybe he deserves four stars.  I have absolutely no idea.  I just know that once he puts on our uniform, I hope he kicks ass.

Late bloomer? He's still growing as of this year and he may not have been asked to do a ton in AAU (although in two years of playing with the Philly Heat, he racked up over 1700 points), he may not have been throwing up huge numbers prior to his senior year of high school.  I've tried looking for some high school and AAU stats for him and can't find much other than the point total. 

All that being said, he's playing on, and leading from everything I've seen, an undefeated high school team, has 3 game winning shots, (one of which was a nothing but net 3 off the dribble), and has been putting up a lot of points while being quoted as saying he trys to get the rest of the team their baskets early on so he can provide a pick me up in the second half/when they need points (his coach's philosophy).

[rocky_warrior]

He's still growing as of this year and he may not have been asked to do a ton in AAU (although in two years of playing with the Philly Heat, he racked up over 1700 points), he may not have been throwing up huge numbers prior to his senior year of high school.  I've tried looking for some high school and AAU stats for him and can't find much other than the point total. 

You probably saw this, but from his old AAU team website, they had these things to say:

http://www.eteamz.com/phillyheat/index.cfm?league=446940&subsite=848508

Wing Forward D. J. Newbill topped 1000 points in style, where he was MVP on his undefeated team won the Metro Baltimore Basketball League. Newbill drained 54 points in three MYBL playoff games to run his career total to 1614 points in 125 Heat (Record 98-23, Seven Titles) contests. D.J. Helped the Heat win title #7, when he drained a winning shot at the buzzer in the Chip game. He is especially tough to stop, because of his size (6'2") and his ability to shoot from outside. If you choose to double him on defense, to stop his scoring, he unselfishly dominates the game with assists.

He recently passed D. J. Newbill, who is averaging almost 20 points a game in the top Summer Camps in the USA.

Some good things, and the 54 point game makes the 64 point one seem like it may not have been that much of an outlier.  And the ~20 ppg average is good too.

[Ready2Fly]

Rocky, maybe I'm reading it wrong, but it sounds like the 54 points you reference was spread out over three games.

Also, how many clutch buzzer beaters does this kid have? Maybe Buzz is anticipating more close games over the next few years and wants to be on the winning side more often than not... Perhaps he's being brought in as a secret weapon in last possession situations a la Steve Novak for the Clippers...

[rocky_warrior]

Rocky, maybe I'm reading it wrong, but it sounds like the 54 points you reference was spread out over three games.

I knew I shouldn't have slept through that stupid 8am reading comprehension class!  Thanks for the correction.

[bma725]

1 star...yikes

C'mon now, you should know by now what a one star rating actually means.

1-Star is what Scout uses when they know of a kid but haven't seen him enough to form an opinion on him.  It's just like ESPN's use of the number grade 40 in their system.  It doesn't mean that they actually think he's a 1-Star player, in fact just the opposite.  1-Star is their way of saying, "we don't know enough about this kid to do a rating".

[tower912]

If I am reading that scout article correctly, I am thinking Joe Chapman with better knees and a better handle.   6'4, 3 pt shooter, needs to get stronger and quicker.  Can run a team.   If that is the case, I would take that as our 6th guard.   

[dennycrane]

+1 - Having the opportunity is just that.  I felt it's been put to bed that JJMay wasn't promised anything beyond a great opportunity to come in and play immediately..which he did..actually a lot of minutes for a freshman.

Why has it been put to bed? Because you say so? Has it also been put to bed that Maymon was promised to play another position other than the 5?

 I don't know if Maymon was promised a starting spot and a certain postion. It is clear that he believed he was and was never dissuaded from thinking that way during or after the recruiting process.

[Brewtown Andy]

If no one else is going to say it, I will.

Strawberry Mansion?  Really?

[tower912]

Buzz has said that he told Jeronne that he would have the opportunity to start and play big minutes.   Having read what he said to other recruits, I have to assume the caveat was included that Jeronne would have to work hard and be accountable every day in conditioning and practice.   Whether or not Tim and Jeronne heard that second part is debatable.    Did Jeronne have to play out of position by necessity (injuries)?    Yup.  The team needed him.      Buzz said last night that no player is bigger than the program, that he yells a lot, and that soft players and me-first players are not going to like him.    Some things explain themselves if you wait long enough.  

[dennycrane]

Buzz has said that he told Jeronne that he would have the opportunity to start and play big minutes.   Having read what he said to other recruits, I have to assume the caveat was included that Jeronne would have to work hard and be accountable every day in conditioning and practice.   Whether or not Tim and Jeronne heard that second part is debatable.   Did Jeronne have to play out of position by necessity (injuries)?    Yup.  The team needed him.      Buzz said last night that no player is bigger than the program, that he yells a lot, and that soft players and me-first players are not going to like him.    Some things explain themselves if you wait long enough.  

I have a hard time thinking of another situation anywhere when a player and parent ( at JM's level )  were so outspoken about their expectations for playing time and specific about usage. This continued from the announcement to attend MU until and after JM's departure. The coaches did little to nothing ( at least not effectively ) to put an end to this.

The truth is people on this board don't know jack about what was or was not promised. They want it "put to bed" and forget about any mistakes made. I would bet these are the same people who did not know jack about Tim and Jerrone before they arrived and "put to bed" all questions sourrounding any potential problems. Heads buried deeply in the sand.

[bma725]

Your forgetting that after Maymon and his father came out during the recruiting process and said he was promised playing time and a starting spot,  Jeronne retracted those comments and said he was promised the opportunity for playing time and a starting spot if he worked hard.

[rocky_warrior]

Did Jeronne have to play out of position by necessity (injuries)?    

Well....not really.  OK, maybe I'll grant that Jeronne should be a 4, but he had to play the 5.  No way is he quick enough to play the 3, I think he'll find that out quickly at TN when all the other 3s are kicking his ass and he's told that his only option is the 4.

[dennycrane]

Your forgetting that after Maymon and his father came out during the recruiting process and said he was promised playing time and a starting spot,  Jeronne retracted those comments and said he was promised the opportunity for playing time and a starting spot if he worked hard.

That is the closest anyone ever came to putting a lid on Tim. I can tell you with certainty Tim never stopped believing or telling others his son was promised many things. Tim is a convenient fall guy. Tim is an idiot and not the harmless type. He has done harm during this fiasco to both his son and the MU program. That being said all of this did not appear to him in a vision one evening

[willie warrior]

I picture him playing the 3 for us. Someone had stated that he had grown 2" and added 25 lbs to his frame over a year span. If he can attain even an extra inch in height that would be very beneficial for him and for MU, now obviously he can't control that. If he was 6'-5" then he could play small forward more.

 Generally freshman gain an extra 10-15 pounds of muscle in the offseason, so lets hope he does. Maybe Buzz envisions him as more of a 3.

Maybe we can have a lineup of three SF's and 4 guards on the floor at the same time.

[bma725]

That is the closest anyone ever came to putting a lid on Tim. I can tell you with certainty Tim never stopped believing or telling others his son was promised many things. Tim is a convenient fall guy. Tim is an idiot and not the harmless type. He has done harm during this fiasco to both his son and the MU program. That being said all of this did not appear to him in a vision one evening

I think you severely underestimate how out there Tim's thought process is.  He's the same guy who said that Baylor was going to run their offense through Jeronne, and the Iowa State wanted to build their program around him.  I can guarantee you that no one at Iowa State said anything like that, but Tim hears what Tim wants to hear.

[Pakuni]

It is clear that he believed he was and was never dissuaded from thinking that way during or after the recruiting process.

The truth is people on this board don't know jack about what was or was not promised.

Hmmm.

[4everwarriors]

How tall are Newbill's parents? I mean, if this dude grows 6" in the next 6 months, Buzz is a freakin' genius. More than one way to sign a big man.

[tower912]

denny, if Jeronne's and Tim' OWN WORDS are to be believed, Jeronne did not think that he had been promised a starting slot and Tim thought that his son deserved it, should have the offense run through him, and was another Michael Beasley.   Now, if, as a typical badger fan, you start with the premise that everything MU does is crooked and everything Buzz says is a lie, (A) I pity you, and (B) nothing anyone is going to say is going to change your mind.    Look at the quotes of the people involved.    It is a pretty clear picture once you take off the crimson shades.   

[NersEllenson]

Why has it been put to bed? Because you say so? Has it also been put to bed that Maymon was promised to play another position other than the 5?

 I don't know if Maymon was promised a starting spot and a certain postion. It is clear that he believed he was and was never dissuaded from thinking that way during or after the recruiting process.

Didn't mean to start the whole JMay drama thing.  Obviously Denny, YOU haven't put the JMay situation to bed.  My bad.  Most MU fans have moved on from that, and don't really pay it much mind anymore.  As Buzz said on his radio show last night - he doesn't like soft guys, and soft guys aren't going to like him, and no one player is bigger than the program.  Buzz liked JMay, by all account JMay liked Buzz.  The fact you are defending Tim Maymon, who claimed JMay might go to Central Florida and team up with Jordan's son and go to the Final Four - is comedy.  The reality is NO TEAM other than Tennessee wanted JMay after what went down at MU.  If that wasn't the case - why would JMay choose to go to Tennessee, where he has to PAY his own way this semester?  Tim Maymon made all kinds of claims - UCLA, Baylor, K-State, Central Florida, Nevada - offered.  Pretty peculiar JMay "chose" to go to the school where he'd have to pay his own way.

[Marquette84]

At the risk of spoiling the off-topic run of Maymon posts, a couple of previous statements warrant a response:

Gonna be competitive in practice next year.  No one's spot at the guard is safe.  If you can't perform, you can take a seat.  That is something the Three Amigos never had to deal with.  

That explains why the Amigos really sucked while here--it was the lack of competition for playing time.  Same thing I noticed hampered Dwyane Wade's development, he barely improved without someone pushing him.  Or Travis Diener.  Or Steve Novak.

Seriously, its a complete insult to the Amigos to think that they slacked off in practice because there wasn't anybody as capable of beating them out for minutes.

And if competitive practices are the secret to better play, Erik Williams would have shown more improvement than any other player on the team, given the competition for minutes with Hayward and Butler. 

Give the coaches and players credit for playing to their max even when not seriously pushed for minutes by another player.

I think this does mean Buzz is taking some risk that Otule and/or Mbao can provide some decent big-man production next year, at least defensively and in rebounding. But I'm not sure that's any more risky than thinking you're going to land two better options in the spring signing period.

I think you've misframed the premise here.

Can we get 40 mpg at the point with Cadougan and Smith?  All reports indicated this is a slam dunk (no pun intended).

Can we get 80 mpg out of our wings, with DJO, Buycks, Blue & Jones?   I think the bigger challenge is how you limit them to only 20 mpg on average.  DJO and Buycks are going to want to keep their 27-28 mpg, Blue is going to want the same, and that leaves  ???? for Jones. 

At the 4, Butler will easily give us 30 a game.  That gives 10 to split between Jones (since there's very few wing minutes), Fulce & Williams.

Up to this point, we probably have one of the best teams in the league.

Now we come to the last position--I'm sorry, but I don't see 40 minutes to Mbao and Otule--not without some miracle of off-season development. 

Thus, we don't sign two bigs because we think we can get two good ones.  We sign two bigs in the spring to double the chance that one of them will be what we need.  And if both are great, that's a high quality problem to have.


Now, let me throw one more curve. 

With Butler going to be going into his senior year I fully expect that he'll enter the NBA draft without an agent--just as McNeal did.  There is no downside.  He doesn't give up his eligibility.  He doesn't lose his one-time withdrawl from the draft.  Worst case, he gains valuable experience about the competition, the process, and what he needs to work on his senior year.

But what if he blows up in the camps?  What if he blows away the expectations of the NBA scouts, and plays his way into a first round pick?  Is that truly unthinkable?  A lot can happen between now and May 8. 

NOW what does that do the lineup?  Can Fulce and Williams split 40 minutes for a Big East contender?  Big risk.  Maybe Jones is a LOT better and plays bigger than his size.  Big risk.

I'm sure someone will counter that Buzz could simply use Butlers' scholarship for a replacement--but people ripped on me for suggesting that he could have begun recruiting in mid-March and landed a serviceable big.  Imagine not knowing if you need one until mid-May. 

The safest route would have been to take the best two bigs you can get a commitment from.  With each comes reduced risk. 

[Lennys Tap]

Didn't mean to start the whole JMay drama thing.  Obviously Denny, YOU haven't put the JMay situation to bed.  My bad.  Most MU fans have moved on from that, and don't really pay it much mind anymore.  As Buzz said on his radio show last night - he doesn't like soft guys, and soft guys aren't going to like him, and no one player is bigger than the program.  Buzz liked JMay, by all account JMay liked Buzz.  The fact you are defending Tim Maymon, who claimed JMay might go to Central Florida and team up with Jordan's son and go to the Final Four - is comedy.  The reality is NO TEAM other than Tennessee wanted JMay after what went down at MU.  If that wasn't the case - why would JMay choose to go to Tennessee, where he has to PAY his own way this semester?  Tim Maymon made all kinds of claims - UCLA, Baylor, K-State, Central Florida, Nevada - offered.  Pretty peculiar JMay "chose" to go to the school where he'd have to pay his own way.

You are correct that most MU fans have moved on from the Maymon stuff. Denny is a rodent fan, though, so he'll never let it go.