Free Throws Again

[Lennys Tap]

I don't think one can absolve the coach 100% in these situations. It is incumbent on the coach to provide the proper motivation so the players have confidence. Either that wasn't done, or it wasn't effective enough.  The coach has to take at least some of the blame for that.  It wasn't as if our guys looked confident and just missed a shot.  They didn't look like they believed they could win.

We don't know what Buzz said in the huddle--Did he talk about setting up quickly on defense after a miss?  That would represent a huge coaching mistake--any psych major would tell you that the language that you use in those situations is  "After Jimmy makes his 2nd shot . . . "     

I also don't buy that these are "young" or "inexperienced" players--Butler is half way through his junior year, and has been in enough close game situations to understand what is going on.  DJO is halfway through his sophomore year.  The reason you bring on a Juco is so you don't have to go through freshman jitters.  If we bring on Jucos who have to play like freshmen, we might as well just bring on freshmen.

Congratulations 84. You've raised the bar for bizarre to a new level. But at least we know you watched "Hoosiers".

[ChicosBailBonds]

Well all you have to do is read the players comments on why it is practiced....nothing bullcrap about it at all unless these players are lying.  I don't think that is the case....some coaches practice free throws During practice and some do not.  Took me about 20 seconds to find these two.  I know for a fact Ben Howland does at Ucla.  Buzz doesn't....he chooses to work on other things which is fine, too


Yes, I watch Red Eye

[Jay Bee]

Well all you have to do is read the players comments on why it is practiced....nothing bullcrap about it at all unless these players are lying.  I don't think that is the case....some coaches practice free throws During practice and some do not.  Took me about 20 seconds to find these two.  I know for a fact Ben Howland does at Ucla.  Buzz doesn't....he chooses to work on other things which is fine, too


Yes, I watch Red Eye

  Coaches believing it's necessary is a bullcrap comment. 

But, since you watch Red Eye I consider your comment only bullcalfcrap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1ISO55E918

[ChicosBailBonds]

LOL...GG is great on Red Eye

Well, what can I say....obviously some coaches feel it's the right thing to do, others don't.  Different philosophies for different coaches.

[Jay Bee]

LOL...GG is great on Red Eye

Well, what can I say....obviously some coaches feel it's the right thing to do, others don't.  Different philosophies for different coaches.

  I have no problem with stating that some coaches feel free throws in practice is the right thing to do, some don't.  That is factual.
 
  I think my New Year's resolution will be have a Marquette-mention on Red Eye.  This is very doable.  I'm leaning towards a Master Baden discussion for it.  BTW - some nice gregalogues recently on climate change...

[Norm]

Hey Jay Bee,

You have a pretty strong feeling about this free throw situation. Are you a former basketball player or coach?

[Jay Bee]

Hey Jay Bee,

You have a pretty strong feeling about this free throw situation. Are you a former basketball player or coach?

  As to your question, sure.

  However, I don't really have a strong feeling about free throws during D1 practices.  I just puke when others do.

[Norm]

  As to your question, sure.

  However, I don't really have a strong feeling about free throws during D1 practices.  I just puke when others do.

So you played basketball and/or coached? What was the highest level you did either?

[Jay Bee]

So you played basketball and/or coached? What was the highest level you did either?

    Sure.  Why the interest, 'Norm'?  Like I said, I don't have strong feelings.. perhaps you do?  Bad xmas gifts?

[Norm]

    Sure.  Why the interest, 'Norm'?  Like I said, I don't have strong feelings.. perhaps you do?  Bad xmas gifts?

Jay Bee, I never played basketball beyond pick-up games in the backyard, so I always like to hear from those who have so I can get a better perspective. I played hockey through high school and have coached youth hockey for the past 15 years, so I am interested in the debate over whether to practice free throws in practice, as almost every thing you do in a hockey game is gone over repeatedly through the year in practice - passing, shooting, checking, power play, penalty kill, face-offs, positional play, and so on. From coaching another sport (albeit at a lower level than D-1) I find it hard to understand that somehow free throws aren't incorporated into practice so I'm interested as to why some think it is a waste of time.

[Jay Bee]

Jay Bee, I never played basketball beyond pick-up games in the backyard, so I always like to hear from those who have so I can get a better perspective. I played hockey through high school and have coached youth hockey for the past 15 years, so I am interested in the debate over whether to practice free throws in practice, as almost every thing you do in a hockey game is gone over repeatedly through the year in practice - passing, shooting, checking, power play, penalty kill, face-offs, positional play, and so on. From coaching another sport (albeit at a lower level than D-1) I find it hard to understand that somehow free throws aren't incorporated into practice so I'm interested as to why some think it is a waste of time.

  I'm just one guy and obviously there are differing opinions.  I think its essential to anyone's game to practice free throws - mentally.  It's like many things done in life, or in sport... get your mind right.  The best way to train yourself is dependent on the individual. 
  I just don't think there is much (or any) bang for the buck when it comes to D1 practice time to spend it on free throws.   There is no situation in hockey (or most sports) similar to the free throw in basketball. 
  An interesting study would be GPA to FT%.  Honestly.  I'm not at all suggesting there is a direct correlation or that people that make a high percentage of FT's are smart and those that don't are not as smart.. however, I would expect the correlation of GPA to FT% to be ... interesting.  In a high level study.

  In our case, take someone like DJO - he's an absolute stud with a pure stroke... it's a thing of beauty.  But, he got nervous.  It's not analogous or what I am talking about.  Indeed, it's also not something that would have been 'cured' by him practicing some shots at the end of the past few practices either.

[Tribby]

Sounds like some folks think we should bring in a band and screaming fans at the end of every practice and have the fellas shoot 500 FT's each.  You're nuts.

They got these things now called speaker systems, where you can take recorded sounds and amplify them to make it sound like lots of people are being very loud, when in fact there is no crowd actually there. It's pretty cool, you should check it out.

Also, I sure hope it doesn't take the "fellas" 500 attempts to sink five free throws consecutively. That was the only free throw practice requirement anyone here has mentioned.

But otherwise you were spot-on...

[mu-rara]

I'm not taking a position on whether or not MU should practice free throws a part of official practice, but I will share an interesting method that my son's coach uses.  Typically at the end of practice (or earlier in some cases if they have a bad FT shooting game), he lines all of them up on the FT line extended (i.e., stretching all the way across the court at the FT line).  He picks one to shoot.  They must make two in a row.  If they miss, the entire team must run a ladder (sprint to the base line; back pedal back to the half-court line; sprint to the base line; back pedal back to the other base line; sprint to the base line; back pedal back to the FT line extended).  If they make the first one, the coaches yell, blow whistles, etc. for the second FT.  Then he picks another one.  If he misses, same drill.  I think it's interesting because it does a couple of things.  1) there's the pressure the kids feel because they don't want to make their teammates run; and 2) they typically are pretty winded when shooting.  Their in-game FT shooting has improved.  However, these are only seventh graders, so any good coaching (and I think they are getting that) will result in improvements.  I'm not saying this is the greatest drill ever, but it does address some of the typical "in game" scenarios that are not present if someone just sits and shoots FTs.

Catholic Memorial calls running the ladder  running Marquettes  (at least when my daughter was there)

[MR.HAYWARD]

I would not say it's absurdly stupid....DI coaches, some, still run it today.  It's all a matter of choice.

Most recently?  #1 ranked Kansas Jayhawks.  

http://www2.kusports.com/news/2009/dec/09/jayhawks-working-free-throws/

“Coach will say something like, ‘If we don’t make five in a row we’ll have a 22 (penalty sprint),’” said KU sophomore power forward Markieff Morris.

“Thomas (Robinson) was shooting the other day, and he made four in a row,” Markieff added, noting Self chose that moment to kid around in an attempt to rattle the freshman forward.

“Coach started grabbing him and said, ‘You’ve got a nice body,’ and Thomas missed the last one.”

The Jayhawks (7-0) — who have hit 65 percent of their free-throw tries, compared to opponents’ 66.7 percent mark heading into today’s 7 p.m. home game against Radford (4-2) — do indeed practice charities extensively.

well apparently practcing or using those methods does not seem to be the answer.  Arnt your hoosiers coming on soon.  Be sure to let us all know how great your girlfriend is. 

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

  I'm just one guy and obviously there are differing opinions.  I think its essential to anyone's game to practice free throws - mentally.  It's like many things done in life, or in sport... get your mind right.  The best way to train yourself is dependent on the individual. 
  I just don't think there is much (or any) bang for the buck when it comes to D1 practice time to spend it on free throws.   There is no situation in hockey (or most sports) similar to the free throw in basketball. 
  An interesting study would be GPA to FT%.  Honestly.  I'm not at all suggesting there is a direct correlation or that people that make a high percentage of FT's are smart and those that don't are not as smart.. however, I would expect the correlation of GPA to FT% to be ... interesting.  In a high level study.

  In our case, take someone like DJO - he's an absolute stud with a pure stroke... it's a thing of beauty.  But, he got nervous.  It's not analogous or what I am talking about.  Indeed, it's also not something that would have been 'cured' by him practicing some shots at the end of the past few practices either.

I would liken free throws to 3ft putts.

Pro golfers practice a lot of 3ft putts, but they probably don't use their time with Hank Haney to work on 3ft putts. It's a drill that's easily completed on their own time.

Free throws are easily practiced on their own time... but I wouldn't mind if the coaches incorporated some pressure free throws into the end of practices once in a while.

[Marquette84]

Congratulations 84. You've raised the bar for bizarre to a new level. But at least we know you watched "Hoosiers".

Actually confidence is one of John Wooden's core principles. You might want to try reading one of his books someday.

Sometimes I forget that raising the quality of thought to John Wooden-level is considered "bizarre" by a group of people that judge every comment through a "Crean=Evil/Buzz=Great" filter.  

If you think the notion that confidence doesn't matter--or that the coach plays no role in building it--that's your view.  I'll stick with John Wooden's view no matter how bizarre you think it is.

Finally, I'll leave you with this challenge:  Instead of basing your response solely on insulting me, can you put together a rational, and well thought out counter-argument?  Explain why you don't think confidence matters.  Tell me why you don't think the coach has any role in building or instilling confidence. Tell me what successful/HOF coaches believe that building confidence is "bizarre."

[ChicosBailBonds]

I just found it incredibly interesting that five of the top programs in the country incorporate free throws into their practice.  That's all.  Maybe it's because they are so good at everything else they have the extra time to do it during practice.

[MU B2002]

I just found it incredibly interesting that five of the top programs in the country incorporate free throws into their practice.  

And who said we don't?


I heard the guys play knock-out to see who gets to be first in the dinner line.

[mu-rara]

free throws

we talkin free throws?

Seriously,

I have absolutely zero problem with the Buzz approach. This is something that should be worked on individually......Maybe an occasional end of practice drill as outlined by others in this thread.....

[ChicosBailBonds]

And who said we don't?


I heard the guys play knock-out to see who gets to be first in the dinner line.

Buzz Williams

[MU B2002]

Buzz Williams

 
A chef can't give away all of his secret ingredients....  Just look at what happend to the Soup Nazi.

[MR.HAYWARD]

Or.....we can blame the coach's decision to go with those    *&%^$#@$$%!@#$% light blue unis........

Wow, it is not the jerseys! come on

[NersEllenson]

Actually confidence is one of John Wooden's core principles. You might want to try reading one of his books someday.

Sometimes I forget that raising the quality of thought to John Wooden-level is considered "bizarre" by a group of people that judge every comment through a "Crean=Evil/Buzz=Great" filter.  

If you think the notion that confidence doesn't matter--or that the coach plays no role in building it--that's your view.  I'll stick with John Wooden's view no matter how bizarre you think it is.

Finally, I'll leave you with this challenge:  Instead of basing your response solely on insulting me, can you put together a rational, and well thought out counter-argument?  Explain why you don't think confidence matters.  Tell me why you don't think the coach has any role in building or instilling confidence. Tell me what successful/HOF coaches believe that building confidence is "bizarre."

84 - You asked me in an earlier post if I was in the huddle and heard Buzz's talk with the team before Jimmy shot free throws.  No, I was not - neither were you.  To imply that Buzz didn't use the right psychology, when you weren't there is ridiculous.  We can be pretty confident Buzz didn't say, "Okay team, after Jimmy missese or chokes this free throw,  here is what we are going to do.  Common sense tells one the coach isn't going to make the above statement.

[Lennys Tap]

Actually confidence is one of John Wooden's core principles. You might want to try reading one of his books someday.

Sometimes I forget that raising the quality of thought to John Wooden-level is considered "bizarre" by a group of people that judge every comment through a "Crean=Evil/Buzz=Great" filter.  

If you think the notion that confidence doesn't matter--or that the coach plays no role in building it--that's your view.  I'll stick with John Wooden's view no matter how bizarre you think it is.

Finally, I'll leave you with this challenge:  Instead of basing your response solely on insulting me, can you put together a rational, and well thought out counter-argument?  Explain why you don't think confidence matters.  Tell me why you don't think the coach has any role in building or instilling confidence. Tell me what successful/HOF coaches believe that building confidence is "bizarre."

How can you ask me to explain and defend a position ("confidence doesn't matter") that I never espoused? Of course confidence matters. Building it is a day to day process and is mostly the responsibility of the individual. Can a good coach/mentor help? Sure. He does that by putting his players in situations where they are most likely to succeed. A good example would be Buzz's terrific game plan and in game adjustments vs West Virginia. But don't take my word for it. Go to the Dodds board and read the comments from our opponent's fanbase.

I have no idea what Buzz said to the team before DJO's and Butler's free throws and neither do you. Unlike you, I hope he prepared the team for all of the possible contingencies (make 2, make 1, or miss) rather than resorting to some psych 1 movie script bs. Wrap yourself in John Wooden all you want but I find it hard to believe he and his teams had no plan in the event of a missed free throw at crunch time. If they didn't that's a definition of bad coaching.

[NersEllenson]

How can you ask me to explain and defend a position ("confidence doesn't matter") that I never espoused? Of course confidence matters. Building it is a day to day process and is mostly the responsibility of the individual. Can a good coach/mentor help? Sure. He does that by putting his players in situations where they are most likely to succeed. A good example would be Buzz's terrific game plan and in game adjustments vs West Virginia. But don't take my word for it. Go to the Dodds board and read the comments from our opponent's fanbase.

I have no idea what Buzz said to the team before DJO's and Butler's free throws and neither do you. Unlike you, I hope he prepared the team for all of the possible contingencies (make 2, make 1, or miss) rather than resorting to some psych 1 movie script bs. Wrap yourself in John Wooden all you want but I find it hard to believe he and his teams had no plan in the event of a missed free throw at crunch time. If they didn't that's a definition of bad coaching.

  Amen Lenny!  Perfectly said.  Can you post the link to the Dodd's site/comments from WVU fans.  I'm pretty new here and am not familiar with Dodd's site.