Did The Bleacher Report Just Call MU (the the Big East) mid-majors?

[Tugg Speedman]

See the highlighted part ...  Technically the power five have 65 schools and the Big East has 10 so yes, they sign more players than the Big East.  But the way this was written it sounds like the Big East is no different from the Horizon league.

----------------------------------------------------------------

College Basketball Recruiting: Ranking the Top 20 Players in 2015 Class
By Brian Pedersen , Featured Columnist Apr 12, 2015

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2427200-college-basketball-recruiting-ranking-the-top-20-players-in-2015-class/page/11

11. Henry Ellenson


Position: Power Forward
Height, Weight: 6'10", 230 lbs
Status: Signed with Marquette
 

The majority of the top prospects each year end up going to teams in the five biggest conferences, but Henry Ellenson decided to buck that trend somewhat by signing with Marquette. It helped that his older brother, Wally, had transferred over from Minnesota.

The Wisconsin native is one of the most impressive post players in the country, but he'll be heading into college on the mend after he broke his left hand in the high school state semifinals in mid-March. Even with the injury, Ellenson scored 26 points and had 12 rebounds, but he's expected to miss six to eight weeks before resuming basketball activity.

Marquette finished 13-19 overall and tied for last in the Big East this past season, its first under coach Steve Wojciechowski, but with Ellenson's arrival, the Golden Eagles should be much improved.

[Oldgym]

[jficke13]

For goodness sake never click on, or link to, bleacher report. Starve the beast.

[wadesworld]

Exactly.

[The Equalizer]

See the highlighted part ...  Technically the power five have 65 schools and the Big East has 10 so yes, they sign more players than the Big East.  But the way this was written it sounds like the Big East is no different from the Horizon league.

----------------------------------------------------------------

College Basketball Recruiting: Ranking the Top 20 Players in 2015 Class
By Brian Pedersen , Featured Columnist Apr 12, 2015

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2427200-college-basketball-recruiting-ranking-the-top-20-players-in-2015-class/page/11

11. Henry Ellenson


Position: Power Forward
Height, Weight: 6'10", 230 lbs
Status: Signed with Marquette
 

The majority of the top prospects each year end up going to teams in the five biggest conferences, but Henry Ellenson decided to buck that trend somewhat by signing with Marquette. It helped that his older brother, Wally, had transferred over from Minnesota.

The Wisconsin native is one of the most impressive post players in the country, but he'll be heading into college on the mend after he broke his left hand in the high school state semifinals in mid-March. Even with the injury, Ellenson scored 26 points and had 12 rebounds, but he's expected to miss six to eight weeks before resuming basketball activity.

Marquette finished 13-19 overall and tied for last in the Big East this past season, its first under coach Steve Wojciechowski, but with Ellenson's arrival, the Golden Eagles should be much improved.

My God, you're right! I would have never caught this!

That must be the point of the entire article. I would have thought it was about where the top 20 players are going, but I now see the real intent was to point out that the Big East and the Horizon are equals.

Thanks for pointing it out.

[🏀]

Bleacher Report has legit writers. This guy is not:

Brian Pedersen is an on-call college football writer for Bleacher Report who also covers Major League Baseball, college basketball, NASCAR and Olympics.
Since 1995 the University of Arizona graduate has covered numerous sports and teams at all levels, including Arizona basketball, football and softball, minor league baseball and high school sports. He has nearly 19 years of experience in print media, including stints at two daily newspapers and one alternative weekly in the Tucson area. His freelance work has been published throughout the U.S.
Pedersen also contributes to AnteUp, a monthly poker magazine, focusing on events and issues related to Southern Arizona.

[KipsBayEagle]

I hate to break it to everybody but you could make a very strong argument that the big east is a mid-major conference.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I didn't read it that way.  There is the Power 5, which is what I think the guy was eluding to.  There is the non Power 5, which includes conferences that are high major, mid major, low major.

[Tugg Speedman]

I hate to break it to everybody but you could make a very strong argument that the big east is a mid-major conference.

Make it, and then I will tell you why you're wrong.

[mattyv1908]

Half of the current Big East members (Marquette, DePaul, Creighton, Xavier and Butler) were all playing in a mid major conference within the last 10 years.  When you regularly have national powerhouses leave the conference being replaced by schools from mid majors it's not unfathomable for some to consider the Big East as a mid major.

I think they're wrong in the assumption but time will tell.

[Tugg Speedman]

Half of the current Big East members (Marquette, DePaul, Creighton, Xavier and Butler) were all playing in a mid major conference within the last 10 years.  When you regularly have national powerhouses leave the conference being replaced by schools from mid majors it's not unfathomable for some to consider the Big East as a mid major.

I think they're wrong in the assumption but time will tell.

Half the current B1G plays basketball at a mid-major level, and has for several years ... Neb, NW, Iowa, Penn State, Rutgers, Illinois and Minnesota.

Does that make the B1G a mid-major conference?

[KipsBayEagle]

Make it, and then I will tell you why you're wrong.

If any power conference, and I do mean any, sent a invite to any one of our schools, that school including Marquette would leave so quickly it would make your head spin.  That is why we are a mid-major, just as the AAC is a mid major.  If a power conference extends an invite to anyone of those schools they are gone.  

Also, the power conferences all play football, we do not.  Historically this has been a trait of a mid major conference (a10, wcc).

Finally, all the power conferences are majority public state institutions.  We have none.

[KipsBayEagle]

Half the current B1G plays basketball at a mid-major level, and has for several years ... Neb, NW, Iowa, Penn State, Rutgers, Illinois and Minnesota.

Does that make the B1G a mid-major conference?

Nebraska was in the big 12 before joining the big ten.

Penn State and Rutgers were in the Big East when they were a power conference before joining the big 10.

What is your point?

[KipsBayEagle]

Ignore that above post, i misread your post.

[bilsu]

I hate to break it to everybody but you could make a very strong argument that the big east is a mid-major conference.

Without football we will always be a mid-major conference. We are one of the best basketball conferences and I would say we are a mid-major basketball conference until we can start putting teams in the final four.

[GGGG]

If any power conference, and I do mean any, sent a invite to any one of our schools, that school including Marquette would leave so quickly it would make your head spin.  That is why we are a mid-major, just as the AAC is a mid major.  If a power conference extends an invite to anyone of those schools they are gone. 

Also, the power conferences all play football, we do not.  Historically this has been a trait of a mid major conference (a10, acc).

Finally, all the power conferences are majority public state institutions.  We have none.

Any definition of "mid major" that includes the ACC is a bad definition.  By that metric, the B12 is also mid major because schools have left it as well.

[KipsBayEagle]

My bad, totally meant to put WCC there, correcting now

[mattyv1908]

Any definition of "mid major" that includes the ACC is a bad definition.  By that metric, the B12 is also mid major because schools have left it as well.

AAC - American Atheletic Conference NOT to be confused with the ACC - Atlantic Coast Conference.

[GGGG]

Without football we will always be a mid-major conference. We are one of the best basketball conferences and I would say we are a mid-major basketball conference until we can start putting teams in the final four.

I completely disagree on your first sentence.  Football is irrelevant to this discussion.  The second sentence makes is more relevant.  However the BE is a better basketball conference than some of the Power 5 so I don't think it is accurate.

[GGGG]

AAC - American Atheletic Conference NOT to be confused with the ACC - Atlantic Coast Conference.

Ah...just midread it.  It is still a bad definition.  Teams have left the ACC and B12 recently.  If Kansas were invited to the B10, they would leave as well.  That doesn't make them mid-major.

[KipsBayEagle]

I completely disagree on your first sentence.  Football is irrelevant to this discussion.  The second sentence makes is more relevant.  However the BE is a better basketball conference than some of the Power 5 so I don't think it is accurate.

How is football irrelevant to this conversation?  Bowl Championship Series Automatic Bids are what gave power conferences the label power conferences.  Conference realignment was based around football.  The reason the new big east came together is a mutual lack of football.  If not football, what would make a power conference?

[bilsu]

I completely disagree on your first sentence.  Football is irrelevant to this discussion.  The second sentence makes is more relevant.  However the BE is a better basketball conference than some of the Power 5 so I don't think it is accurate.

No it is not. Public perception is what determines if you are a major conference. MU and The Big East are no where on the sport scene until basketball starts.

[KipsBayEagle]

Ah...just midread it.  It is still a bad definition.  Teams have left the ACC and B12 recently.  If Kansas were invited to the B10, they would leave as well.  That doesn't make them mid-major.

I'm not denying a hierarchy in the power conferences.  What I would argue is that were a non-power conference school offered a spot in any power conference, they would jump, no questions asked, barring outlandish travel scenarios (i.e. gonzaga to the acc)

[#UnleashSean]

Half of the current Big East members (Marquette, DePaul, Creighton, Xavier and Butler) were all playing in a mid major conference within the last 10 years.  When you regularly have national powerhouses leave the conference being replaced by schools from mid majors it's not unfathomable for some to consider the Big East as a mid major.

I think they're wrong in the assumption but time will tell.

Cusa at the time Marquette was in it was not a mid major.

[KipsBayEagle]

Cusa at the time Marquette was in it was not a mid major.

Yes it was.

[#UnleashSean]

No it is not. Public perception is what determines if you are a major conference. MU and The Big East are no where on the sport scene until basketball starts.

That's really surprising for a basketball only conference.

[GGGG]

How is football irrelevant to this conversation?  Bowl Championship Series Automatic Bids are what gave power conferences the label power conferences.  Conference realignment was based around football.  The reason the new big east came together is a mutual lack of football.  If not football, what would make a power conference?

Mid-major is a phrase to mean a middle of the road conference in NCAA basketball.  Tell me how football plays in that equation?  The BE was rated higher than a couple P5 conferences this year.  It also was last year.

Finally, mid-major conferences do not put 6 teams in the NCAA tournament.

[GGGG]

No it is not. Public perception is what determines if you are a major conference.

That is false.  Mid-majors don't do what the BE has done in terms of RPI or NCAA tournament births in recent years.  Mid-majors don't get a basketball only television contract like the BE did.

Don't define your life by what ESPN says it is.

[GGGG]

I'm not denying a hierarchy in the power conferences.  What I would argue is that were a non-power conference school offered a spot in any power conference, they would jump, no questions asked, barring outlandish travel scenarios (i.e. gonzaga to the acc)

But if Power 5 schools would also jump to other Power 5 schools, that would mean your criteria is pretty lame.

[#UnleashSean]

Yes it was.

A conference with Marquette, Depaul, Memphis, Cincinnati, Louisville, and South Florida is not a mid major

[KipsBayEagle]

Mid-major is a phrase to mean a middle of the road conference in NCAA basketball.  Tell me how football plays in that equation?  The BE was rated higher than a couple P5 conferences this year.  It also was last year.

Finally, mid-major conferences do not put 6 teams in the NCAA tournament.

In that case the Atlantic 10 is a power conference as well, because they put 6 teams in the dance in 2014.

[KipsBayEagle]

A conference with Marquette, Depaul, Memphis, Cincinnati, Louisville, and South Florida is not a mid major

I think the rest of the sports world would disagree with this assertion.

[GGGG]

In that case the Atlantic 10 is a power conference as well, because they put 6 teams in the dance in 2014.

They didn't match the RPI though.  But that is why these labels are ridiculous.  Using football and "if they will leave" to determine the strength of a basketball conference makes no sense.

[#UnleashSean]

They didn't match the RPI though.  But that is why these labels are ridiculous.  Using football and "if they will leave" to determine the strength of a basketball conference makes no sense.

I put him on ignore, he's making even dumber statements then ners did with dwil.

[KipsBayEagle]

They didn't match the RPI though.  But that is why these labels are ridiculous.  Using football and "if they will leave" to determine the strength of a basketball conference makes no sense.

Than what metric are we using?

[GGGG]

Than what metric are we using?

Basketball performance.  Conference RPI.  NCAA tournament births.  NCAA tournament progression.

[KipsBayEagle]

Basketball performance.  Conference RPI.  NCAA tournament births.  NCAA tournament progression.

This all proves we are a strong/not strong basketball conference, not a power conference.

[GGGG]

This all proves we are a strong/not strong basketball conference, not a power conference.

WTF does that even mean?  "Mid-major," is a basketball conference related adjective.  

[KipsBayEagle]

WTF does that even mean?  "Mid-major," is a basketball conference related adjective.  

Fine, we're not a mid-major, and we are not a power conference.  We are some hybrid between the two.

[Tugg Speedman]

"Mid-major" is meant to be a insult.  That is why the phrase brings up so many emotions.

Besides their no such official designation as mid-major. 

So it means whatever you want it to mean and how much you want to insult someone.

[bradley center bat]

Cusa at the time Marquette was in it was not a mid major.

correct!
Plus, the Power 5 is a football saying.

[Tugg Speedman]

correct!
Plus, the Power 5 is a football saying.

+1

Power 5 has nothing to do with basketball, or any other sport.  It is purely a football term., and only a football term.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Yes it was.

No it wasn't.  Hell, it was ranked ahead of the Big Ten some of those years and sent 6 teams to the dance.

[Tugg Speedman]

Nebraska was in the big 12 before joining the big ten.

Penn State and Rutgers were in the Big East when they were a power conference before joining the big 10.

What is your point?

Those seven schools (NU, NW, Iowa, PSU,  Minn, ILL, Rutgers)  no better than the Horizon league, and probably worse.  That's half the B1G.  Why aren't they mid-major?  (a term that is only meant to insultandnothing else)

[MU82]

Bleacher Report is the Savannah State of sports journalism.

And I probably should turn right around and apologize to Savannah State.

[GoldenWarrior11]

The Big East may not be a power conference, but it is an elite basketball conference - unlike any other non-football league in the NCAA.  It is home to several NCAA Champions (Marquette included), numerous prestigious basketball programs, all in major media markets on the east coast and midwest.  It is, without question, the best non-football conference in the country and, statistically speaking, is one of the top basketball conferences in the country.

Just because ESPN tried to literally destroy the former incarnation of the Big East does not mean the conference is a mid-major.  Yes, the top sports network in the world does not carry the league.  No, it has not had any negative effect on recruiting or exposure.  The conference had 6 bids last year, has one of the top prospects in the country (Ellenson) coming in, and just nabbed one of the top assistant coaches/recruiters in the country at St. Johns (Slice).

Marquette's, the Big East's and all the schools in the conference have extremely bright futures.  I'm looking forward to enjoying the ride.  

[#UnleashSean]

"Mid-major" is meant to be a insult.  That is why the phrase brings up so many emotions.

Besides their no such official designation as mid-major.  

So it means whatever you want it to mean and how much you want to insult someone.

There is actually.

http://www.collegeinsider.com/mens-mid-major-top-25.php

okay not "super offical" But they do have coaches and such voting on it.

[bilsu]

Those seven schools (NU, NW, Iowa, PSU,  Minn, ILL, Rutgers)  no better than the Horizon league, and probably worse.  That's half the B1G.  Why aren't they mid-major?  (a term that is only meant to insultandnothing else)

You can have mid-major schools in a major conference. You, also can have a major basketball school in a mid-major conference. Gonzaga would be an example of that.

[Tugg Speedman]

There is actually.

http://www.collegeinsider.com/mens-mid-major-top-25.php

okay not "super offical" But they do have coaches and such voting on it.

Nice find! 

No big east schools on the list (no Nova, which would be #1 or #2).  It is settled for the rest of time.  The Big East is not a mid-major conference.

The mods can no lock this thread.

[frozena pizza]

It is a bit of a backhanded slap, but it doesn't say that either MU or the Big East is a mid-major.  It just says most top prospects go to one of the five major conferences.  There is a power 5 (albeit more relevant for football purposes) and the Big East is not part of it.  Of the players in ESPN's top 20 recruits for 2015, only Ellenson and Brunson (Nova) are going to a school not in a power 5 conference, although it's not like any other single conference is really dominating the list either.  If there's any disrespect to complain about it should be that they rank Ellenson only 11th best.

[Herman Cain]

Half of the current Big East members (Marquette, DePaul, Creighton, Xavier and Butler) were all playing in a mid major conference within the last 10 years.  When you regularly have national powerhouses leave the conference being replaced by schools from mid majors it's not unfathomable for some to consider the Big East as a mid major.

I think they're wrong in the assumption but time will tell.

The Big East is not remotely close to being a mid major. Every school is very desirable from an academic standpoint and the basketball history and tradition of all schools are well developed. It is not part of the Power 5 because of football. Yet all our schools are competing and winning on top recruits.

When we play schools like Arizona State. Tennessee or Georgia Tech, go look at their local media, they consider  playing us a very important game.

Over time I believe people will come to value our double round format and the rivalries it is already creating. The name recognition of opposing teams and coaches builds over time as well which only adds fuel to the fire. I am delighted we are in the Big East.



 

[silverback]

It's Bleacher Report. It's a site that built itself on luring hack wannabes and college kids willing to work for free just to pretend they're sports writers. BR hung ads on their click bait, list driven drivel and eventually drummed up enough money to hire some real writers and stick themselves on Sirius XM and such. That doesn't mean the network itself doesn't still "employ" hordes of volunteer knuckledraggers. As the quote rolls: "No man but a blockhead ever wrote expect for money."

You may read BR stories if you wish. I would rather read Cat Fancy published in Lithuanian.

John Scott Lewinski
www.lewinskiwrites.com