Tyler Kolek's "legacy"

[Shooter McGavin]

Rather than a number or jersey, I'd like to see an actual Marquette Hall of Fame museum in the new basketball facility. Not just displays like in The Al that everyone walks by with little notice. An interactive museum with busts (not the Scoop type). Championship banners should be hung in Fiserv and player accomplishments should be close to the students from which they came.

Great idea Dr.!  If done well it would is great touch and a recruiting tool.

[Shooter McGavin]

Goose:
In post Al era the only one clearly above Tyko is :
D Wade

There is a long list of post Al he is somewhere among though (listed chronologically)

Oliver Lee
Micheal Wilson
Sam Worthen
Doc Rivers
Tony Smith
Damon Key
Jim McAlvaine
Tony Miller
Aaron Hutchins
Brian Wardle
Travis Diener
Steve Novack
Dominc James
Jerel McNeal
Wes Matthews
Lazar Haywood
Jimmy Butler
Jae Crowder
Darius Johnson-Odom
Vander Blue
Markus Howard
Sam Hauser

Herm,

Really?

Please take Sam off the list. He submarined his chance at that honor by leaving and taking a dump on what could have been a final four caliber team. 

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

He's just trolling. Its best not to take anything he says seriously.

[Shooter McGavin]

He's just trolling. Its best not to take anything he says seriously.

This is true.  Sorry for that.  Carry on with the discussion. 

[Goose]

I agree with every name on Herman’s list including Sam. He was an outstanding player at MU and his departure does not diminish his skill set. No problem with any one not liking him, but he was a very good player during his time at MU.

I also agree there is one player clearly ahead of TK and that is easiest debate in MU history. A lot of very good players on that list and I could add several more, but none match TK, imo.

[Pakuni]

I rank TK somewhere between Dwyane Wade and Kevin Menard.

[MU82]

I agree with every name on Herman’s list including Sam. He was an outstanding player at MU and his departure does not diminish his skill set. No problem with any one not liking him, but he was a very good player during his time at MU.

I also agree there is one player clearly ahead of TK and that is easiest debate in MU history. A lot of very good players on that list and I could several more, but none match TK, imo.

Kolek isn't "somewhere among" (9-9-9's term) any of the players on that list and you know it. He ranks ahead of each of them - not only by skill but especially by what you would call the "mark on the program" factor. With many of them, it's not even close.

[Goose]

82

TK is better than all of them and I said that. Some very accomplished players, but TK is better than all of them and most by a wide margin. That list made me realize why one two players have had jersey retired in 45 years.

After seeing that list in print I have a better understanding of why there is the COLE faction on scoop.

[Uncle Rico]

Kolek isn't "somewhere among" (9-9-9's term) any of the players on that list and you know it. He ranks ahead of each of them - not only by skill but especially by what you would call the "mark on the program" factor. With many of them, it's not even close.

Kolek is a clear 2 behind Wade.  If they make the Final 4, there is no debate.

I appreciate a lot of guys on Herm’s list and they all hold a place in Marquette history but none of them match what Kolek has done as a player, combining individual and team accomplishment.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Few questions:

What is the criteria for retiring a player’s number?

Is it only on court accomplishments while at MU? For example, if Kolek becomes an NBA all-star does that have any impact on retiring his MU jersey? I don’t think Wade’s legacy at MU finished with the Kansas loss.

I think these are good questions.

For me the number one criteria is national honors. Were they an All-American? 1st, 2nd, or 3rd team? Was it consensus? Did they win an award like the Bob Cousy or Senior Class Award? Do they hold any D1 records?

I would say the next level of importance is Conference POY/record holder and team success. Were they conference player of the year? Do they hold a conference record of some sort? Did they lead their team conference championships and/or deep runs in March?

I think you need to hit these levels and everything else is just gravy. I think pro success matters but only a little. For example, JFB is probably the second best pro to come out of Marquette. I don't see his number ever getting retired because he didn't earn any national or even conference honors and his Sweet 16 run wasn't enough to counteract that.

[MU82]

82

TK is better than all of them and I said that. Some very accomplished players, but TK is better than all of them and most by a wide margin. That list made me realize why one two players have had jersey retired in 45 years.

After seeing that list in print I have a better understanding of why there is the COLE faction on scoop.

It was 9-9-9's use of "somewhere among" that raised my eyebrows.

Kolek is as "somewhere among" a list of players that includes Oliver Lee, Michael Wilson, Sam Hauser, Brian Wardle and Vander Blue" as Larry Bird is "somewhere among" a list of former NBA players that includes Hersey Hawkins, Rajon Rondo, Jeff Hornacek, Gus Williams and Trevor Ariza.

It doesn't mean those 5 former pros I named weren't accomplished, but I think you'd agree it's silly to rank Bird "among" them.

[Lennys Tap]

Kolek is a clear 2 behind Wade.  If they make the Final 4, there is no debate.

100% agree.

What happens if we win it all? Two time AA, Big East POY, MVP (is there that kind of award?) of the tournament. Does that move TKo to #1? Sounds almost sacrilegious, never thought I would even entertain such a thought. DWade was head and shoulders above the rest. But if we’re just talking college, and we win it all….

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

100% agree.

What happens if we win it all? Two time AA, Big East POY, MVP (is there that kind of award?) of the tournament. Does that move TKo to #1? Sounds almost sacrilegious, never thought I would even entertain such a thought. DWade was head and shoulders above the rest. But if we’re just talking college, and we win it all….

If we won it all,  TKo would have the best Marquette career of any player post Al.

Wade would still be the best player to ever wear the blue and gold

[MU82]

I sure hope we get to have the TK vs DW debate after winning it all!

[Goose]

Lenny

If MU wins it all, TK will have had the best MU career since Butch Lee. I would say Bo had the greatest career ever at MU, followed by Butch. TK is still behind those two, but the best career in 45 years.

It is funny, but as the greatest player, I do not think I will live long enough to see a better player than Wade. It took me watching Wade one time in person to realize his greatness.

Back to TK, my TK moment of knowing we were watching a special player was the game at X last season. From the moment he took over the first half of that game everything changed. He went from being a very good PG to the best PG on college basketball and has not looked back.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Frozena goes first

First member in the auxiliary hall where the MU Walk-on HOF will be located.  Right next to Marcus West.

[swoopem]

Rather than a number or jersey, I'd like to see an actual Marquette Hall of Fame museum in the new basketball facility. Not just displays like in The Al that everyone walks by with little notice. An interactive museum with busts (not the Scoop type). Championship banners should be hung in Fiserv and player accomplishments should be close to the students from which they came.

Does anyone know when the new bball facility is supposed to open? Have they started on it?

[swoopem]

Also, as far as retiring numbers/jerseys, I think an important factor is: are they engaged with the university post college/graduation? If a player never comes back to campus, doesn’t reach out to the current team, etc then I don’t think they should be recognized.

I’m not saying Markus is not a proud alum and maybe he’s completely supportive of the program but does anyone know if he’s been back to campus? I know he plays in Europe so it’s difficult but there’s an offseason. Maybe it’d be good for him to meet with Shaka and the team. Also, maybe he has. I don’t know

[Hards Alumni]

Also, as far as retiring numbers/jerseys, I think an important factor is: are they engaged with the university post college/graduation? If a player never comes back to campus, doesn’t reach out to the current team, etc then I don’t think they should be recognized.

I’m not saying Markus is not a proud alum and maybe he’s completely supportive of the program but does anyone know if he’s been back to campus? I know he plays in Europe so it’s difficult but there’s an offseason. Maybe it’d be good for him to meet with Shaka and the team. Also, maybe he has. I don’t know

That is pretty terrible criteria, and would be awfully petty.

[Shooter McGavin]

It was 9-9-9's use of "somewhere among" that raised my eyebrows.

Kolek is as "somewhere among" a list of players that includes Oliver Lee, Michael Wilson, Sam Hauser, Brian Wardle and Vander Blue" as Larry Bird is "somewhere among" a list of former NBA players that includes Hersey Hawkins, Rajon Rondo, Jeff Hornacek, Gus Williams and Trevor Ariza.

It doesn't mean those 5 former pros I named weren't accomplished, but I think you'd agree it's silly to rank Bird "among" them.

100%. 

[Galway Eagle]

Also, as far as retiring numbers/jerseys, I think an important factor is: are they engaged with the university post college/graduation? If a player never comes back to campus, doesn’t reach out to the current team, etc then I don’t think they should be recognized.

I’m not saying Markus is not a proud alum and maybe he’s completely supportive of the program but does anyone know if he’s been back to campus? I know he plays in Europe so it’s difficult but there’s an offseason. Maybe it’d be good for him to meet with Shaka and the team. Also, maybe he has. I don’t know

He was back at least once. I think he was still with the nuggets. Don't think he's been back since Spain

[MU82]

Getting back to Tyler Kolek ...

He played all 40 minutes Sunday and 78 minutes over the weekend. He moved freely, appeared able to attempt every pass and shot he wanted, chest-bumped his teammates, had enough energy down the stretch Sunday to take over a game that we desperately needed him to take over, etc. If I didn't know he was coming off an injury to his core that was serious enough to sideline him for 6 games, I never would have thought he was hurt at all.

It seems highly unlikely to me that he was way too injured to play at all March 16 but that he was able to be a full-contact practice participant March 18 and 100% good to play March 22, so I'm fully believing Shaka's statement that TK could have played the previous week had the national title been on the line.

But the national title wasn't on the line the previous week, and I applaud all the decision-makers - from the medical and training staffs, to Tyler and his family, to Shaka - for keeping their eyes on the real prize.

Winning the national title was the stated goal back in October ... and to have a chance to achieve it, we needed TK to be as healthy as possible for the NCAA tournament.

And now here Shaka, Kolek & Co. are, 1/3 of the way toward accomplishing that goal, already with Marquette's deepest run in the NCAAs in more than a decade.

As for "legacy," it's a tricky word, and different people define it different ways. In my eyes, at least, TK already has established his legacy at Marquette. Can he improve on it? Damn right he can ... so he might as well!

[PGsHeroes32]

Getting back to Tyler Kolek ...

He played all 40 minutes Sunday and 78 minutes over the weekend. He moved freely, appeared able to attempt every pass and shot he wanted, chest-bumped his teammates, had enough energy down the stretch Sunday to take over a game that we desperately needed him to take over, etc. If I didn't know he was coming off an injury to his core that was serious enough to sideline him for 6 games, I never would have thought he was hurt at all.

It seems highly unlikely to me that he was way too injured to play at all March 16 but that he was able to be a full-contact practice participant March 18 and 100% good to play March 22, so I'm fully believing Shaka's statement that TK could have played the previous week had the national title been on the line.

But the national title wasn't on the line the previous week, and I applaud all the decision-makers - from the medical and training staffs, to Tyler and his family, to Shaka - for keeping their eyes on the real prize.

Winning the national title was the stated goal back in October ... and to have a chance to achieve it, we needed TK to be as healthy as possible for the NCAA tournament.

And now here Shaka, Kolek & Co. are, 1/3 of the way toward accomplishing that goal, already with Marquette's deepest run in the NCAAs in more than a decade.

As for "legacy," it's a tricky word, and different people define it different ways. In my eyes, at least, TK already has established his legacy at Marquette. Can he improve on it? Damn right he can ... so he might as well!

Yup. This weekend proved that the BET just wasn’t a priority(smartly)

He could have went if needed. But we were always getting a 2 seed. And the path we got, ended up quite ok.

[Uncle Rico]

Yup. This weekend proved that the BET just wasn’t a priority(smartly)

He could have went if needed. But we were always getting a 2 seed. And the path we got, ended up quite ok.

It’s obvious Tyler is soft, just like his generation

[TSmith34, Inc.]

It’s obvious Tyler is soft, just like his generation

If only Shaka had listened to Dung Willie and played TKO 38 minutes/game in the BET.