NL Central Pissing Match - 2011

[GGGG]

I doubt they panicked.  I think this was in the works for awhile.

Who knows...a $21M deal could be a steal by 2020.

[foreverwarriors]

Tulowitzki signed a similar deal with the Rockies after last year. I think its great foresight by the Brewers.

Braun was on a contract through 2015 that pays him peanuts compared to the numbers he's putting up. At some point, the Brewers would have needed to restructure that to keep him happy and prove that they are committed to him. This was their way of saying 'we'll pay you, but let's figure out a way that it can benefit both of us and avoid anything like a hold out or anything like that. The last thing we want to do is make you feel undervalued.'

This contract is amazing because not only did it extend him for 5 years, but it did nothing to the contract through 2015 - no restructuring of it whatsoever - he will still only make $40M from 2011-2015. As MUfan12 said to me 'when was the last time a perennial all-star, MVP type talent gave up free agency to stay in milwaukee?"

[MUBurrow]

i just don't get why we need to invest $105 million for a guy in his 30s, on the chance that he gets pissed of or feels undervalued.  Its tough to feel sorry for a guy who signs a team friendly deal when it also bought out arbitration years, etc.  Plus, there is a $10 million signing bonus immediately, which greatly hurts the brewers ability to do something at the trading deadline.  In the most 'win-now' year milwaukee has ever had - why in the hell would you do that?  At least have that thing vest at the end of the year or something.  

For example, I would have rather restructured his existing deal and extended him for another 3 years, and only spent another $70 million.  Thats paying him more over those three years than the current 20 million he's going to be averaging, yet saves the brewers net money.  What are the odds that when he's heading into his age 35 season, the brewers would sign him to a 2 year deal worth $30 million? Very unlikely. So why is it brilliant to not touch his deal now? I understand the brewers have a lot of other commitments now, but to cite that as the reason forecloses on other similar commitments in 2018, 2019, 2020. We'll need good players then too, and probably more of them since Braun won't be near the player he is now.  I just don't understand it.

[jmayer1]

Tulowitzki signed a similar deal with the Rockies after last year. I think its great foresight by the Brewers.

Braun was on a contract through 2015 that pays him peanuts compared to the numbers he's putting up. At some point, the Brewers would have needed to restructure that to keep him happy and prove that they are committed to him. This was their way of saying 'we'll pay you, but let's figure out a way that it can benefit both of us and avoid anything like a hold out or anything like that. The last thing we want to do is make you feel undervalued.'

This contract is amazing because not only did it extend him for 5 years, but it did nothing to the contract through 2015 - no restructuring of it whatsoever - he will still only make $40M from 2011-2015. As MUfan12 said to me 'when was the last time a perennial all-star, MVP type talent gave up free agency to stay in milwaukee?"

So if the Rockies jump off a cliff, it's ok for the Brewers to do so as well?  Add to that, Tulowitzki plays a premium defensive postion, Braun doesn't.

I understand there aren't a lot of guys willing to sign long-term in Milwaukee, but there was absolutely no reason to do this deal at this point in time. Wait at least a couple years.  See if he stays healthy and keeps producing. He'll almost assuredly not be worth the money he's getting at the end of this deal, it's just a matter of how much he'll be overpaid.  If he gets hurt of falls off steeply in his 30's, this is a deal that could be very, very damaging to the Brewers.

[MerrittsMustache]

Looks like Brewers fans will get to experience their own version of Alfonso Soriano in a few years.

[wadesworld]

Looks like Brewers fans will get to experience their own version of Alfonso Soriano in a few years.

Except that Ryan Braun is 10x the player that Alfanso Soriano could ever dream to be.

[BrewCity83]

Braun is a workout freak that will always keep himself in top shape.  His 1st 5 years put him in the company of a select few Hall-of Famers.  If you wouldn't want to make a deal like this for Braun, then who would you ever want to do it for?

[MUBurrow]

Braun is a workout freak that will always keep himself in top shape.  His 1st 5 years put him in the company of a select few Hall-of Famers.  If you wouldn't want to make a deal like this for Braun, then who would you ever want to do it for?

no one, because you already had his peak years under contract, and its doubtful that the day after his age 31 season, he will command 5 years $105 million. think about how many players in the history of baseball have commanded that type of deal at that age (adjusting for the value of money) For Ryan Braun to actually be worth this money, he will have to go down as one of the top players of all time.

As I've been thinking about this all day, I think the worst part is that I can't see any team wanting to make a deal like this, given the preexisting contract conditions.  Take that its the small market brewers and not just any team, and it gets more unconscionable to me by the minute.

Okay, im sorry, hijack over

[MerrittsMustache]

Except that Ryan Braun is 10x the player that Alfanso Soriano could ever dream to be.

Oh really?

First 4 full seasons in the Majors...

Braun: 579 G, .307, 128 HR, 420 RBI, 711 H, 397 R, 149 2B, 63 SB, 467 K, 184 BB, 3 ASG, 3 Silver Sluggers

Soriano: 615 G, .285, 123 HR, 357 RBI, 731 H, 396 R, 153 2B, 137 SB, 533 K, 123 BB, 3 ASG, 2 Silver Sluggers

I realize that they were asked to do different things considering Soriano spent a chunk of his time hitting lead-off, but I'd say those numbers are pretty similar. All I'm saying is that it's amazing what can happen to player after he reaches his 30s and the wear and tear adds up...especially when he's got a big money, long-term contract and is a bit of a head-case.

[reinko]

Roids *cough*

[wadesworld]

Oh really?

First 4 full seasons in the Majors...

Braun: 579 G, .307, 128 HR, 420 RBI, 711 H, 397 R, 149 2B, 63 SB, 467 K, 184 BB, 3 ASG, 3 Silver Sluggers

Soriano: 615 G, .285, 123 HR, 357 RBI, 731 H, 396 R, 153 2B, 137 SB, 533 K, 123 BB, 3 ASG, 2 Silver Sluggers

I realize that they were asked to do different things considering Soriano spent a chunk of his time hitting lead-off, but I'd say those numbers are pretty similar.

Braun's first full season was not 2007.  This current year will be his 4th full MLB season.  He was called up on May 25, 2007.  He was in the minor leagues for the first 1/4 + of the 2007 MLB season.  With that in mind:

Ryan Braun – 579 G; 2,316 AB; 711 H; 397 R; 149 2B; 20 3B; 128 HR; 420 RBI; 184 BB; 467 K; 63 SB; 18 CS; .307 BA; his average OPS (would be really hard to calculate the exact number) was .924

Alfonso Soriano – 615 G; 2,560 AB; 731 H; 369 R; 153 2B; 14 3B; 118 HR; 357 RBI; 94 BB; 533 K; 137 SB; 40 CS; .285 BA; his average OPS (would be really hard to calculate the exact number) was .821

Add in walks and strikeouts and those are two pretty big numbers.  SB is a big advantage for Soriano (caught a lot more, but stole a lot more).

OPS is by far the most telling offensive statistic in baseball.  Braun’s was MUCH better (although, again, not perfectly calculated, just taking the average of those 4 years for each player, which isn't what it truly is since there is a difference in number of PA between seasons and such).  And again, if Braun had not been in the minors for the first 1/4 of the 2007 season and kept close to the same pace that he did for the rest of that season, you could add an extra 10 home runs, 15 runs, 40 hits, and 20 RBI (on the low end of those numbers) to his totals.

[NavinRJohnson]

All I'm saying is that it's amazing what can happen to player after he reaches his 30s and the wear and tear adds up...especially when he's got a big money, long-term contract and is a bit of a head-case.

Or, in Soriano's case, when he is pushing 40. That guy is 35, like I'm 17.

[MerrittsMustache]

Braun's first full season was not 2007.  This current year will be his 4th full MLB season.  He was called up on May 25, 2007.  He was in the minor leagues for the first 1/4 + of the 2007 MLB season.  With that in mind:

Ryan Braun – 579 G; 2,316 AB; 711 H; 397 R; 149 2B; 20 3B; 128 HR; 420 RBI; 184 BB; 467 K; 63 SB; 18 CS; .307 BA; his average OPS (would be really hard to calculate the exact number) was .924

Alfonso Soriano – 615 G; 2,560 AB; 731 H; 369 R; 153 2B; 14 3B; 118 HR; 357 RBI; 94 BB; 533 K; 137 SB; 40 CS; .285 BA; his average OPS (would be really hard to calculate the exact number) was .821

Add in walks and strikeouts and those are two pretty big numbers.  SB is a big advantage for Soriano (caught a lot more, but stole a lot more).

OPS is by far the most telling offensive statistic in baseball.  Braun’s was MUCH better (although, again, not perfectly calculated, just taking the average of those 4 years for each player, which isn't what it truly is since there is a difference in number of PA between seasons and such).  And again, if Braun had not been in the minors for the first 1/4 of the 2007 season and kept close to the same pace that he did for the rest of that season, you could add an extra 10 home runs, 15 runs, 40 hits, and 20 RBI (on the low end of those numbers) to his totals.

Braun's OPS was .918 compared to Soriano's .826 (baseball-reference.com will do that math for you)

That being said, I never claimed that Fonzie was better. I simply pointed out the ignorance of your comment that Braun is 10x better than Soriano could ever dream to be. Soriano had some great seasons (Braun is never going to be a 40/40 man) and put up some big numbers. Yes, he's past his prime, he's a butcher in the OF, he doesn't come across as the most likable guy and he's being vastly overpaid. I wouldn't be surprised to hear people saying the same things about Braun in 2018. Would you? In fact, you could say two of those things about Braun right now.

[DJO's Pump Fake]

This is a great deal for Milwaukee

Braun is deferring some of his salary to keep the Brewers competative.

He is a great guy to build around and have sell your franchise, and he has proven to be loyal.

‎"I want to stay here," Braun said. "I believe in this city. I believe in this organization.

"The more time we spend in other cities, the more we appreciate it here."

The majority of Brewer fans are rejoicing today!

Like someone else said, make room for a number 8!

[NavinRJohnson]

Yes, he's past his prime, he's a butcher in the OF, he doesn't come across as the most likable guy and he's being vastly overpaid. I wouldn't be surprised to hear people saying the same things about Braun in 2018. Would you? In fact, you could say two of those things about Braun right now.

I keep hearing this, and i just don't get it. The guy has been a model citizen, good with the fans, etc. I can understand why opposing teams/fans may not like him. I never liked Dave Winfield or Reggie Jackson much when they were beating the Brewers brains in either.

This contract is about back pay. The simple fact is, while he may be overpaid in the last couple years of this extension (I personally doubt that), he is going to be vastly underpaid for the next couple years, which is providing the Brewers a great opportunity to compete. Had he not signed the very club friendly extension a couple years back, Grienke and Marcum are not Brewers right now. Beyond that, the way things are shaping up now, they will have an opportunity to extend/re-sign one of those guys.

This is a great deal for the Brewers.

[BrewCity83]

I can see why Cubs fans hate this deal.  Brewer fans love Braun.  The Cubs fans now have to see Braun wreck havoc on them for the rest of his career.

[MerrittsMustache]

I keep hearing this, and i just don't get it. The guy has been a model citizen, good with the fans, etc. I can understand why opposing teams/fans may not like him. I never liked Dave Winfield or Reggie Jackson much when they were beating the Brewers brains in either.

Braun is an outstanding ballplayer but he carries himself like an arrogrant punk. That's why opposing teams/fans (and quite a few Brewers fans, I might add) dislike him.

[NavinRJohnson]

Speaking of Soriano, I love this from a Cub fan site relative to the trade prospects for Soriano...

These are five teams who I feel could be interested in talking to the Cubs if Soriano becomes available.

LOL. Soriano has been available for three years, as he will be for the next three. Any team in the league could offer the Cubs a bag of air, and a box of oxygen, right now, and they would take it.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/668845-mlb-trade-ideas-5-teams-who-could-consider-dealing-for-alfonso-soriano

[NavinRJohnson]

Braun is an outstanding ballplayer but he carries himself like an arrogrant punk. That's why opposing teams/fans (and quite a few Brewers fans, I might add) dislike him.

How exactly does he carry himself like an arrogant punk? Because Bob Brenly says so?

[DJO's Pump Fake]

Braun is an outstanding ballplayer but he carries himself like an arrogrant punk. That's why opposing teams/fans (and quite a few Brewers fans, I might add) dislike him.

And these brewer fans are idiots...... Milwaukee has needed a player with Braun's swagger for some time....and he can back it up

[MerrittsMustache]

How exactly does he carry himself like an arrogant punk? Because Bob Brenly says so?

Seriously?! I now question whether or not you have ever watched the guy play.  If you think Brenly is the only person who believes this then Google "Ryan Braun arrogant" and see if anything comes up.

[NavinRJohnson]

Seriously?! I now question whether or not you have ever watched the guy play.  If you think Brenly is the only person who believes this then Google "Ryan Braun arrogant" and see if anything comes up.

No, I've seen him play hundreds of times...I am looking for your examples of how exactly he carries himself like an arrogant punk.

[🏀]

No, I've seen him play hundreds of times...I am looking for your examples of how exactly he carries himself like an arrogant punk.

Questioning Doug Melvin in the JS is one of those examples.

[TallTitan34]

FACTS
1) Braun is one of the best if not the best hitter in baseball right now
2) Braun is an arrogant punk
3) Braun sucks at fielding

Two and three don't matter because of number one.

[🏀]

No, I've seen him play hundreds of times...I am looking for your examples of how exactly he carries himself like an arrogant punk.

Also, let's not forget the Dempster and Karstens incidents.

"Once my house gets furnished, I'll go kick it on the beach in Malibu for a while and be cool. Until then, I've got nothing to say."