2018 NFC North/NFL thread

[rocket surgeon]

Hey now, Jay just passed Sid this past season...

yeah, that's what sully said,  decent, eyn'a?

[GB Warrior]

Possible but you have no idea that's the case.

Last year it was pretty likely the Giants wanted Floyd.

Sorry,  was referring to Glennon.

[jsglow]

What seems absolutely crazy to me is that the Bears will have way more guaranteed money tied up in the QB position than do the Packers.  Glennon himself is owed $19 minimum.  And we have zero idea if Glennon or Trubisky can actually play.

It seems to me that the Bears have no ability to predict the future.  Had they decided in February/March that they had a real shot at and LOVED Trubisky, don't you simply sign Jay for one year?  My goodness, he's available for a ham sandwich right this moment.  On the other hand, if you LOVE the Glennon signing, don't you at least stand pat at #3 or maybe even move down snagging extra talent at other positions?  But instead, the Bears have given up tremendous value losing a chance to improve their team absolutely knowing that one of these QBs will eventually be thrown on the scrap heap.

Seems crazy to me.

 

 

[MU B2002]

What seems absolutely crazy to me is that the Bears will have way more guaranteed money tied up in the QB position than do the Packers.  Glennon himself is owed $19 minimum.  And we have zero idea if Glennon or Trubisky can actually play.

It seems to me that the Bears have no ability to predict the future.  Had they decided in February/March that they had a real shot at and LOVED Trubisky, don't you simply sign Jay for one year?  My goodness, he's available for a ham sandwich right this moment.  On the other hand, if you LOVE the Glennon signing, don't you at least stand pat at #3 or maybe even move down snagging extra talent at other positions?  But instead, the Bears have given up tremendous value losing a chance to improve their team absolutely knowing that one of these QBs will eventually be thrown on the scrap heap.

Seems crazy to me.

Unless they knew they liked Trubisky and didn't feel Jay was the right QB for him to learn from.  They have the money to spend, only other QB on the roster right now is Shaw. (I think.)  I don't hate the pick, but as many have said giving up the 3 and 4 when you have so many holes to fill seems problematic.

[GB Warrior]

What seems absolutely crazy to me is that the Bears will have way more guaranteed money tied up in the QB position than do the Packers.  Glennon himself is owed $19 minimum.  And we have zero idea if Glennon or Trubisky can actually play.

It seems to me that the Bears have no ability to predict the future.  Had they decided in February/March that they had a real shot at and LOVED Trubisky, don't you simply sign Jay for one year?  My goodness, he's available for a ham sandwich right this moment.  On the other hand, if you LOVE the Glennon signing, don't you at least stand pat at #3 or maybe even move down snagging extra talent at other positions?  But instead, the Bears have given up tremendous value losing a chance to improve their team absolutely knowing that one of these QBs will eventually be thrown on the scrap heap.

Seems crazy to me.

I agree completely.

In a bubble, Glennon's signing makes sense to me. I still think they were bidding against themselves, but it's a relatively low-risk contract that really can only break in the Bears' favor given that it's a series of 1-year team options. And his signing seemed to suggest what scouts have been saying - that there aren't any upper echelon QBs in this draft. So when they signed him, sure it was for crazy money, but it was a low risk, high reward proposition. Cap rules dictate the floor you have to spend anyway (same reason the Browns took on Osweiler for a 2nd rounder).

These two moves combined make zero sense.

[Plaque Lives Matter!]

I agree completely.

In a bubble, Glennon's signing makes sense to me. I still think they were bidding against themselves, but it's a relatively low-risk contract that really can only break in the Bears' favor given that it's a series of 1-year team options. And his signing seemed to suggest what scouts have been saying - that there aren't any upper echelon QBs in this draft. So when they signed him, sure it was for crazy money, but it was a low risk, high reward proposition. Cap rules dictate the floor you have to spend anyway (same reason the Browns took on Osweiler for a 2nd rounder).

These two moves combined make zero sense.

4d chess with himself

[GoldenDieners32]

Waited all that time for the packers to trade their pick 

[MerrittsMustache]

If the Bears just kept Jay they would have paid him less than they're paying Glennon. Keeping the starting QB around for another season makes sense for most teams but the franchise and fans had turned on Cutler, aided in large part by the coach and GM never publicly put their faith behind him, even if it was just for show. His time in Chicago was just up. Had they kept Cutler and still drafted a QB in the top 3, it would have been a season-long storyline of "We know what Jay is! Why don't they put in the kid?" Honestly, I think the team just didn't want to deal with that. Instead, they went with an unproven veteran and a rookie unknown.

Glennon essentially got a 1-year deal, which is fine, but what do the Bears want from him? They want him to win but not be too impressive in doing so? If he turns out to be the real deal (long shot, I know) then you've wasted the #3 pick as well as 3 other picks on a guy who won't see the field. What if he's adequate? Then the team goes 7-9 instead of 5-11 and they drop from picking 5th to picking 10th in next year's draft. What if he's brutal? Do you keep Trubisky on the sidelines and let Glennon be brutal? Do you go to Sanchez?

I actually think the decision to draft Trubisky was last-minute, relatively speaking (i.e. they weren't considering him until fairly recent). Had they been eyeing the QB all along, they could have just as easily re-signed Hoyer or Barkley or brought in a cheap vet who obviously isn't the future like fan favorite Josh McCown to be the stop gap...or they could have had Mark Sanchez be that guy.

My best guess (I'm trying hard to wrap my head around this pick) is that the pick was made because they needed a franchise QB and this pick bought time for Ryan Pace and, more specifically, John Fox. Fox is 62 and isn't getting another head coaching gig after Chicago. This is it for him. With a QB-in-waiting on the roster, 2017 is basically a free pass. Give Trubisky a chance to sit back and watch and then he can start in 2018. 2018 is then essentially his rookie season and you can't expect too much from a team with "rookie" QB. That's Fox's contract year. You're not going to get rid of a coach and make the young franchise QB start over with a whole new system already, right? If Fox and Pace had better job security would they have taken a project QB somewhere in Round 3-6 and hoped to land the franchise guy in the potentially QB-loaded 2018 Draft? Who knows? The way it looks right now though, they put a lot of money and assets into a couple of non-franchise QBs.

[jsglow]

Unless they knew they liked Trubisky and didn't feel Jay was the right QB for him to learn from.  They have the money to spend, only other QB on the roster right now is Shaw. (I think.)  I don't hate the pick, but as many have said giving up the 3 and 4 when you have so many holes to fill seems problematic.

You mean like ARodg learned from Favre?  That's why you have coaches.  To me this smacks as if Sonny had actually taken Bo Callahan on Draft Day instead of pulling off the double switch.  The Bears pulled the epic 'anti Sonny' move.  And if neither works out this will be worse than the Packers Hadl trade.

Look, I can be sold if the Bears had simply taken him at #3 or had moved down.  Right now the projection is that Trubisky will be slotted at $29 million over the life including an $18 signing bonus.  There's going to be a great deal of coin sitting on the bench, either way.

On another front, I'm fully expecting Ted to trade down from #33.  Somebody's getting a chubby over some guy they simply have to acquire and will overpay. If the board is talented and flat from 25 through 100, give me as many as you can, please.  Sure I would have loved Watt.  But that's not because I know anything or that he would have been a great pick.

[jsglow]

If the Bears just kept Jay they would have paid him less than they're paying Glennon. Keeping the starting QB around for another season makes sense for most teams but the franchise and fans had turned on Cutler, aided in large part by the coach and GM never publicly put their faith behind him, even if it was just for show. His time in Chicago was just up. Had they kept Cutler and still drafted a QB in the top 3, it would have been a season-long storyline of "We know what Jay is! Why don't they put in the kid?" Honestly, I think the team just didn't want to deal with that. Instead, they went with an unproven veteran and a rookie unknown.

Glennon essentially got a 1-year deal, which is fine, but what do the Bears want from him? They want him to win but not be too impressive in doing so? If he turns out to be the real deal (long shot, I know) then you've wasted the #3 pick as well as 3 other picks on a guy who won't see the field. What if he's adequate? Then the team goes 7-9 instead of 5-11 and they drop from picking 5th to picking 10th in next year's draft. What if he's brutal? Do you keep Trubisky on the sidelines and let Glennon be brutal? Do you go to Sanchez?

I actually think the decision to draft Trubisky was last-minute, relatively speaking (i.e. they weren't considering him until fairly recent). Had they been eyeing the QB all along, they could have just as easily re-signed Hoyer or Barkley or brought in a cheap vet who obviously isn't the future like fan favorite Josh McCown to be the stop gap...or they could have had Mark Sanchez be that guy.

My best guess (I'm trying hard to wrap my head around this pick) is that the pick was made because they needed a franchise QB and this pick bought time for Ryan Pace and, more specifically, John Fox. Fox is 62 and isn't getting another head coaching gig after Chicago. This is it for him. With a QB-in-waiting on the roster, 2017 is basically a free pass. Give Trubisky a chance to sit back and watch and then he can start in 2018. 2018 is then essentially his rookie season and you can't expect too much from a team with "rookie" QB. That's Fox's contract year. You're not going to get rid of a coach and make the young franchise QB start over with a whole new system already, right? If Fox and Pace had better job security would they have taken a project QB somewhere in Round 3-6 and hoped to land the franchise guy in the potentially QB-loaded 2018 Draft? Who knows? The way it looks right now though, they put a lot of money and assets into a couple of non-franchise QBs.

Look, it could all work out.  But I agree completely with the two bolded statements.

[GGGG]

From Trubisky:

“I had one workout with them, and then, after that it was just pretty much silence,” Trubisky said. “That’s why I’m surprised to hear my name called because we didn’t have a lot of contact.”

[hairy worthen]

If a QB is the real deal, giving up all of your picks to get him would be worth it.

Is Trubisky the real deal? I doubt it but I hope I'm wrong.

Disagree, because you didn't have to pay that price to get him. Even if Trubisky ends up being a hall of famer it was a bad move. They didn’t have to give up that much. They probably could have moved down and still got him.

[StillAWarrior]

If Fox and Pace had better job security would they have taken a project QB somewhere in Round 3-6 and hoped to land the franchise guy in the potentially QB-loaded 2018 Draft? Who knows?

Gotta admit that I'm hoping that this is the Browns' approach.  They could have reached for one of several QBs in this draft, but they seem to be showing some patience and realization that this is a multi-year project they're undertaking. 

[GGGG]

Disagree, because you didn't have to pay that price to get him. Even if Trubisky ends up being a hall of famer it was a bad move. They didn’t have to give up that much. They probably could have moved down and still got him.

Maybe.  Maybe not.  Maybe there were other suitors.  Maybe they got fleeced.

Had the Packers traded their entire draft to move up to #2 to get Aaron Rodgers back in 2005, and the future played out exact as it has, no one would have complained. 

[MerrittsMustache]

Disagree, because you didn't have to pay that price to get him. Even if Trubisky ends up being a hall of famer it was a bad move. They didn’t have to give up that much. They probably could have moved down and still got him.

We don't know what other teams were offering so we can't say that they gave up too much. Do I think that they gave up too much for a guy who I believe will be an average NFL QB? Absolutely. We can't say for certain it at this point though.

If the Bears could have made this same trade in 2005 to go from #4 to #2 to take Aaron Rodgers, it would have been 100% worth it even though they could have actually traded all the way down to 23 to get the same player. You don't know that at the time and you can never trade too much to land a 10+ year franchise QB.


EDIT: Sultan stole my analogy! I need to type faster 

[4everwarriors]

Pack fooked up bye passin' on Watt, hey?

[Spotcheck Billy]

I'm relieved they didn't take Watt, particularly because of his history of injury and inexperience at LB. Now if they don't take King with the 1st pick today...

[wadesworld]

Pack fooked up bye passin' on Watt, hey?

Nope.  Somebody's going to overpay by a ton to get the #33 pick.  Ted got his dream.  20 hours to negotiate a trade that will net him even more draft picks!

[hairy worthen]

I'm relieved they didn't take Watt, particularly because of his history of injury and inexperience at LB. Now if they don't take King with the 1st pick today...

I wouldn't mind seeing the running back from fl state either, there will still be some highly ranked corners later in the second round when they pick again.

[hairy worthen]

We don't know what other teams were offering so we can't say that they gave up too much. Do I think that they gave up too much for a guy who I believe will be an average NFL QB? Absolutely. We can't say for certain it at this point though.

If the Bears could have made this same trade in 2005 to go from #4 to #2 to take Aaron Rodgers, it would have been 100% worth it even though they could have actually traded all the way down to 23 to get the same player. You don't know that at the time and you can never trade too much to land a 10+ year franchise QB.


EDIT: Sultan stole my analogy! I need to type faster 

Fair enough, on the surface it feels like they over paid though.

[Spotcheck Billy]

I wouldn't mind seeing the running back from fl state either, there will still be some highly ranked corners later in the second round when they pick again.

Personally, I'd take gamble with Mixon's checkered past over Cook's.

[dgies9156]

You mean like ARodg learned from Favre?

And Favre learned from Jim McMahon.

Look, we all knew there was nothing the Bears could do to make 2017 anything close to approximating a success. If they win as many as they did last year with that porous defense, lack of a real running game and, now, no legit wide receivers, I'd be shocked.

I just renewed my Bears tickets for next year. The options to move closer to the action were never better. I was in Row 31 in the grandstands about the 45 yard line and now I'm in row 18. The McCaskeys are losing Chicago to the Cubs and unless something happens soon, I'll be in Row 1!

[DegenerateDish]

It's great that the Bears beat the Niners last December. That "meaningless" win will have butterfly effects for years to come.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Sorry,  was referring to Glennon.

Got it. It's really a one year deal as only $2.5 million is guaranteed beyond this year.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Disagree, because you didn't have to pay that price to get him. Even if Trubisky ends up being a hall of famer it was a bad move. They didn’t have to give up that much. They probably could have moved down and still got him.

You absolutely have so clue if this is actually true or not.