State of the Program Now, now

[Jay Bee]

And with regards to youth, we're starting 3 juniors and a McDonald's All-American.

If by 3 juniors and an All-American you mean:
2 freshmen
1 sophomore
2 juniors, one of whom has never played a full season and has already set a career-high in minutes with at least 6 games left to play; the other who, through Saturday (game #26), has 23 career starts

 

[Dr. Blackheart]

Duane is a Redshirt Sophomore.  Luke is a junior, even though he hasn't played the number of games a normal Junior would due to the transfer.


Here's what I think is kind of funny from the Buzz brigade that was on the chat at the end of the game yesterday.

HE isn't here if Buzz is still here.  PERIOD.
The players that drive me the most crazy on this team...Duane Wilson....a Buzz recruit.  Tremendous talent, but also puts himself in so many spots where he is disadvantage.  JJJ...also a lot of talent, but doesn't like to play defense.  Sandy Cohen...at times can look pretty good, but has had a sophomore slump IMO.  Must get stronger.


Buzz left this team with a lot of misfit toys.  He just wasn't a great high school recruiter and our best player wouldn't even be here if he was still here, yet some people want him back (going off the chat room yesterday).  SMDH

I wasn't one of the Buzz Brigade spouters so whatever, but I don't like excuses either for the continual brain cramps. St. Mary's, Kentucky, Ohio State, Providence and Seton Hall are all around MU on experience as a note.  Lame, and if experience is the final answer then where are the Jucos and transfers like McBuckets Sr. has assembled?

And if those Buzz players (Luke, JJJ, Duane, Deonte, Dawson, Todd, Steve) are/were the issues (counting Nick, Levin and Sandy as Wojo's as he reup'ed or signed them), then you are telling me we are going into yet  another year of a rebuild? Basically at scratch again as he didn't House Crean or Buzz Cut as his predecessors did at their new gigs. I am not there but basically you are saying that Wojo made a major mistake keeping Duane, JJJ, Luke and Sandy.  That, my friend, is a major condemnation of our current head coach.  One I don't share but you are entitled to your own opinion.  I want to see a progression of the team.  You seem to want to blame a coach from three seasons ago.

[Mr. Nielsen]

dgies9156



We are from a great era and remember when Xavier was a cupcake on our schedule. They are now so far beyond our program that it makes cringe. There is a tremendous amount of work ahead for this program.

You must being going back to the 80's on that one when they were in the MCC.

[The Lens]

Spin anyway you want, Duane's a junior. 

And Luke's a junior. 

Just like Wade was a junior when he led us to the FF. 

[GGGG]

Spin anyway you want, Duane's a junior. 

And Luke's a junior. 

Just like Wade was a junior when he led us to the FF. 

It's not "spinning" to say Duane is a sophomore.  He is exactly that.

[Jay Bee]

Spin anyway you want, Duane's a junior. 

And Luke's a junior. 

Just like Wade was a junior when he led us to the FF.

Then what is Creighton's Maurice Watson, who turns 23 in a few weeks?

Duane is a sophomore.

[The Lens]

He's been in a multi million dollar college program for 3 years.  That's a junior to me. 

And while Buzz wouldn't have landed Henry, he a) never needed a Burger Boy in March and b) Diamond Stone might very well be here.   

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

No

[GGGG]

He's been in a multi million dollar college program for 3 years.  That's a junior to me.

Sounds like you're the one "spinning" because he is *literally* a sophomore.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Spin anyway you want, Duane's a junior. 

And Luke's a junior. 

Just like Wade was a junior when he led us to the FF.

No spin, basketball he is a sophomore and it often shows on the court.

[ChicosBailBonds]

He's been in a multi million dollar college program for 3 years.  That's a junior to me. 

And while Buzz wouldn't have landed Henry, he a) never needed a Burger Boy in March and b) Diamond Stone might very well be here.

This is why the whole concept of burger boys is a joke.  It's a marketing gimmick as much as anything.  Buzz had 5 NBA players in the 2011 squad and was the last four teams into the tournament. 

Highly rated Wisconsin high school kids still are overrated nationally in my opinion.  Way better than they used to be, but not equivalent to the hype or rankings they receive.

[naginiF]

He's been in a multi million dollar college program for 3 years.  That's a junior to me. 

And while Buzz wouldn't have landed Henry, he a) never needed a Burger Boy in March and b) Diamond Stone might very well be here.

Well as long as he's a junior to you i'm sold!  forget the NCAA and their weird regulatory rules.

[The Lens]

This is why the whole concept of burger boys is a joke.  It's a marketing gimmick as much as anything.  Buzz had 5 NBA players in the 2011 squad and was the last four teams into the tournament. 

Highly rated Wisconsin high school kids still are overrated nationally in my opinion.  Way better than they used to be, but not equivalent to the hype or rankings they receive.

Are you saying Henry is over rated or Duane?

PS, fine we started

2 juniors
1 red shirt sophomore
1 McDonalds All-American

[WarriorFan]

Back to the original question... the state of the program now... is right where it's supposed to be.

It would have been a nice surprise if suddenly an elite point guard emerged from our plethora of 2's and probably would be worth 2-3 more wins.

It would also be possible that this team would have lost 3-4 more games.

But it didn't... it's right on target.  As for the rest of the season, what happens, happens.  Wojo's biggest recruiting job is keeping Henry. 

What needs to change:
- recruit a bruising BEAST PF
- pick up a seasoned coaching vet as an "offensive coordinator"

Other than that, this program has integrity, money, great facilities, and a lot of great kids and coaches.  Exactly where it's supposed to be!

[Mutaman]

Buzz left this team with a lot of misfit toys.  He just wasn't a great high school recruiter and our best player wouldn't even be here if he was still here, yet some people want him back (going off the chat room yesterday).  SMDH

What's done is done, so arguing about Buzz is a waste of energy at this point. But based on his record here, expressing confusion about why some folks would want him back seems absurdly disingenuous.

[MU82]

What's done is done, so arguing about Buzz is a waste of energy at this point.

What's done is done? On Scoop? That's the funniest line I've heard in awhile!

T3 sucks. Bert sucks. Deane's a drunk. KO saved us ... until he didn't. Lather, rinse, repeat.

[WarriorPride68]

St. Mary's, Kentucky, Ohio State, Providence and Seton Hall are all around MU on experience as a note.

And if those Buzz players (Luke, JJJ, Duane, Deonte, Dawson, Todd, Steve) are/were the issues (counting Nick, Levin and Sandy as Wojo's as he reup'ed or signed them), then you are telling me we are going into yet  another year of a rebuild?

I always forget about Noskowiak & Levin

[ChicosBailBonds]

Are you saying Henry is over rated or Duane?

PS, fine we started

2 juniors
1 red shirt sophomore
1 McDonalds All-American

We're only starting 4 guys?  No wonder we are struggling at times.   

Do I think Henry is the 9th best high school player in the country (RSCI)?  No.  Do I think he is a darn good player?  Yes.  Do I think Duane Wilson was the 59th best player in the country?  Let's just say guys ranked lower than him have impressed me more.  Again, I think the young man has great talent, but he also makes a lot of mistakes that a "third year guy" (to use your verbiage) shouldn't be making. 

For that matter, JJJ was ranked in RSCI as the 30th best player in the country. 

There is a reason why I find pre season basketball rankings and recruiting rankings to be highly comical.  They are fun for fans, etc, but so many misses.

Doesn't mean they are bad, not at all.  I just don't buy into the hype.


EDIT:  HE was rated anywhere from 5th to 23rd.    He was consensus #9.   I don't know if I would go as low as 23, but I wouldn't have him top 10.

[dinger]

Here's what I think is kind of funny from the Buzz brigade that was on the chat at the end of the game yesterday.

I dont post on here often but I was probably part of what you consider the Buzz brigade from yesterday's chat.

I was trying to get across that some people trivialized how long a full rebuild can take, especially with the situation our athletic department was in a few years back. I also get irritated when I see posts saying we weren't held  accountable under him. To be honest outside of Scoop very few people saw Marquette as dirty under the past regime.

Regarding the topic at hand here's my thought. I'm not sure everybody knew what to expect when we took on a full rebuild of the program. A good example of a similar program rebuild is at Iowa. McCaffrey took over a team decimated by roster turnover. It took two years to get to the NIT, 4 years to get to the play-in NCAA game, 5 years to win an NCAA game, and 6 to fight for the top of the conference. We should be aligning our expectations with that type of schedule for our rebuild.

I actually think Wojo and crew are about a year ahead of schedule regarding their rebuild. The team is winning some good games and is far better than last year. But on the other hand, there isn't any real depth this year and they still seem too inconsistent. We'll get there but not for a while.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I wasn't one of the Buzz Brigade spouters so whatever, but I don't like excuses either for the continual brain cramps. St. Mary's, Kentucky, Ohio State, Providence and Seton Hall are all around MU on experience as a note.  Lame, and if experience is the final answer then where are the Jucos and transfers like McBuckets Sr. has assembled?

And if those Buzz players (Luke, JJJ, Duane, Deonte, Dawson, Todd, Steve) are/were the issues (counting Nick, Levin and Sandy as Wojo's as he reup'ed or signed them), then you are telling me we are going into yet  another year of a rebuild? Basically at scratch again as he didn't House Crean or Buzz Cut as his predecessors did at their new gigs. I am not there but basically you are saying that Wojo made a major mistake keeping Duane, JJJ, Luke and Sandy.  That, my friend, is a major condemnation of our current head coach.  One I don't share but you are entitled to your own opinion.  I want to see a progression of the team.  You seem to want to blame a coach from three seasons ago.

Not saying that at all.  I believe Duane, JJJ, Luke are all good players, but they still play young.  Will they be able to take it to the next gear?  Actually, Luke plays mature, but he has limitations. 

Now, do I think Duane or JJJ are top 60 players like their HS ratings suggested?  No.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I dont post on here often but I was probably part of what you consider the Buzz brigade from yesterday's chat.

I was trying to get across that some people trivialized how long a full rebuild can take, especially with the situation our athletic department was in a few years back. I also get irritated when I see posts saying we weren't held  accountable under him. To be honest outside of Scoop very few people saw Marquette as dirty under the past regime.

Regarding the topic at hand here's my thought. I'm not sure everybody knew what to expect when we took on a full rebuild of the program. A good example of a similar program rebuild is at Iowa. McCaffrey took over a team decimated by roster turnover. It took two years to get to the NIT, 4 years to get to the play-in NCAA game, 5 years to win an NCAA game, and 6 to fight for the top of the conference. We should be aligning our expectations with that type of schedule for our rebuild.

I actually think Wojo and crew are about a year ahead of schedule regarding their rebuild. The team is winning some good games and is far better than last year. But on the other hand, there isn't any real depth this year and they still seem too inconsistent. We'll get there but not for a while.

Fair points, appreciate the response.

I agree with you entirely that many people do not and still don't understand how long a rebuild happens.  If you go back and look at the predictions for this year, there was crazy crazy talk by people.  Like unhinged talk.  Some of us were much more level headed, but I was worried then that people were out of their heads with expectations.

This is why when I hear the love for KO I have to chuckle.  It took him 4 years to get to the dance, against much weaker competition and not having a powerhouse program in our backyard.  How soon we forget.

[Herman Cain]

Fair points, appreciate the response.

I agree with you entirely that many people do not and still don't understand how long a rebuild happens.  If you go back and look at the predictions for this year, there was crazy crazy talk by people.  Like unhinged talk.  Some of us were much more level headed, but I was worried then that people were out of their heads with expectations.

This is why when I hear the love for KO I have to chuckle.  It took him 4 years to get to the dance, against much weaker competition and not having a powerhouse program in our backyard.  How soon we forget.

The love for KO was because he revived us from the near death experience of Dukiet and by the end of his tenure with us restored us to where we believed we were entitled to be. At the time we imploded it was truly a shock to everyone.

I knew the it was the beginning of the end when I was sitting in the stands at Market Square arena against Miami in 78. but had no idea we would fall so hard . I thought we should have recruited Dick Vitale after he found out he wasnt an NBA coach.   So even though I think KO made a mistake by leaving I am forever grateful for the work he did to revive the program.

We were nowhere near a near death experience when Buzz left. Yes he left on bad terms but the cupboard was not completely bare. It is a historical fact that  both Buzz and Wojo put their faith in Derrick at PG and that obviously was a disaster, but absent that one position we were not in bad shape at all. Wojo made a decision to get rid of Todd, Deonte, Taylor and Dawson for the greater good of the program. That plus the false start on Levin hurt us in the short term. Looking at who we have plus the pipeline it is pretty clear we will back on track toward most peoples  expectations  next year.     

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Wojo made a decision to get rid of Todd, Deonte, Taylor and Dawson for the greater good of the program. 

I agree with the rest of your post but not this.  Wojo did nit make a decision to get rid of any of these guys. Especially not Todd. That decision was made for him.

[MU82]

Regarding the topic at hand here's my thought. I'm not sure everybody knew what to expect when we took on a full rebuild of the program. A good example of a similar program rebuild is at Iowa. McCaffrey took over a team decimated by roster turnover. It took two years to get to the NIT, 4 years to get to the play-in NCAA game, 5 years to win an NCAA game, and 6 to fight for the top of the conference. We should be aligning our expectations with that type of schedule for our rebuild.

Strong point, strong post.

You should post here on Scoop more often.

Oh, and if you get tired of the basketball chat, you can always do some posting on the political board. That way you can really learn how stupid you are, at least according to our resident geniuses!

[Small Orange Soda]

The love for KO was because he revived us from the near death experience of Dukiet and by the end of his tenure with us restored us to where we believed we were entitled to be. At the time we imploded it was truly a shock to everyone.

I knew the it was the beginning of the end when I was sitting in the stands at Market Square arena against Miami in 78. but had no idea we would fall so hard . I thought we should have recruited Dick Vitale after he found out he wasnt an NBA coach.   So even though I think KO made a mistake by leaving I am forever grateful for the work he did to revive the program.

We were nowhere near a near death experience when Buzz left. Yes he left on bad terms but the cupboard was not completely bare. It is a historical fact that  both Buzz and Wojo put their faith in Derrick at PG and that obviously was a disaster, but absent that one position we were not in bad shape at all. Wojo made a decision to get rid of Todd, Deonte, Taylor and Dawson for the greater good of the program. That plus the false start on Levin hurt us in the short term. Looking at who we have plus the pipeline it is pretty clear we will back on track toward most peoples  expectations  next year.     

Well said.  While Buzz's last year was a major disappointment, enough of pretending it was an excuse to miss the tourney the next three years.  What does it matter that Buzz wouldn't have gotten Henry if he surrounded him with a bubble NIT team?