This was one of those games that ....

[JakeBarnes]

What everyone is describing is a Final Four team. I think we all can agree that MU is not that. I have been saying for awhile Seton Hall is. We saw that today. We saw Mamu stretching the d. We saw Powell working inside and out. We saw McKnight being great. We saw role players hitting their shots. Seton Hall hit some prayers.

Adjustments is the most over used coaching term. Anyone who says if we only made adjustments we would win doesn’t  know basketball. There is no bag of tricks that if a coach rolled them out you would magically win.

You go in with your best plan to win. You then have a few ideas you are going to try to exploit.  If you notice after everyone was cold Wojo started to focus on interior play with Theo and Jayce. We started to fall further behind because Seton hall was hitting threes to our twos. Jayce and Theo also started to miss. Wojo sent Bailey to the free throw line to hit jumpers. He hit one early clanked the rest. He was getting the ball to Anim to drive. He was clanking pull up jumpers.

If you notice when Wojo feels we absolutely need a basket it goes to Howard. Howard talked about it. “Wojo gives me this look”. 

An “adjustment” as this crew defines it has a shelf life of 2-3 trips down the floor. After that it gets shutdown.  We saw that yesterday. As MU made a run the Hall would clamp down and the tide would turn.  What everyone should be discussing is second or third options in the game plan. If Howard drives and someone doubles someone should be open. In a lot of cases, the ball got to that open player. They clanked the shot.

Seton Hall is a final four caliber team. it took Willard 10yrs to build that team. They were in the bottom of the Big East.  MU is not there yet. 

Each recruiting crew has to be better than the wave before them. Wojo is doing that.  This group of players are better than their predecessors but not great. This next group should be better.

Start to break down the game and you will see what is being done instead of just judging made or missed basketball.  You will also see that Seton hall spread the love because as we focused on shutting done one mismatch they just moved to the next one.

This is quality content regardless of "side." Thanks for contributing.

[connie]

This is quality content regardless of "side." Thanks for contributing.

+1

[JakeBarnes]

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This has been discussed here before, but I think it's Wojo's main flaw. He tends to sag off poor shooters and make them beat you. When they don't, we look excellent. When they do start hitting, the adjustment doesn't come and assumes they'll regress to the mean. If they don't regress, games get ugly.

I don't think it is a terrible strategy but it can backfire at times.

I am not nearly as attuned or nuanced in dissecting the game as ballboy, but this was always my impression. Felt a lot like "i hope they dont shoot well"

[CountryRoads]

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This has been discussed here before, but I think it's Wojo's main flaw. He tends to sag off poor shooters and make them beat you. When they don't, we look excellent. When they do start hitting, the adjustment doesn't come and assumes they'll regress to the mean. If they don't regress, games get ugly.

I don't think it is a terrible strategy but it can backfire at times.

This is also backed up by Wojo's comments in the post game presser. He kept mentioning the low shooting percentages of the guys who shot well yesterday from deep and said "people better watch out" a bunch of times.

I don't think it's a terrible strategy either, but it should be recognized and corrected earlier on once the first couple of shots go down. I thought this strategy really backfired in last year's NCAA tournament game.

[NickelDimer]

This is also backed up by Wojo's comments in the post game presser. He kept mentioning the low shooting percentages of the guys who shot well yesterday from deep and said "people better watch out" a bunch of times.

I don't think it's a terrible strategy either, but it should be recognized and corrected earlier on once the first couple of shots go down. I thought this strategy really backfired in last year's NCAA tournament game.

100%. And just like last year’s Murray State drubbing he had no counterpunch

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

This is absurd. Bailey is inconsistent AF. Sam was the hallmark of consistent. Joey also was better than BB. Brendan has had some nice moments this year, but in truth he was pretty bad last year. Not a high bar to clear as it relates to improvement.

Reading comprehension guru.... i said when brendan was playing well.  Translation when brendan was scoring 15 and getting 8 rebounds we dont miss sam
When hes not consistant we do.  And i woukd argue Joeys defense being so horrible made him an equal to brendan are far as value to the team.

[NickelDimer]

Reading comprehension guru.... i said when brendan was playing well.  Translation when brendan was scoring 15 and getting 8 rebounds we dont miss sam
When hes not consistant we do.  And i woukd argue Joeys defense being so horrible made him an equal to brendan are far as value to the team.

BB at his best (which has been way way too infrequent) doesn’t make us miss Sam less.

[Elonsmusk]

Reading comprehension guru.... i said when brendan was playing well.  Translation when brendan was scoring 15 and getting 8 rebounds we dont miss sam
When hes not consistant we do.  And i woukd argue Joeys defense being so horrible made him an equal to brendan are far as value to the team.

Okay. So basically the 1 in 4 games Brendan plays well. Brendan has 7 double digit scoring games all year. Yes, he’s a better defender than Joey was. But that’s it.

Brendan O-Rating this year against Tier A Comp?  99 on 14% usage. Joey last year?  124 on 15% usage.

No need to even think about comparing BB to Sam.

[willie warrior]

We dont miss joey at all.  We dont miss Sam either when Bailey shows up.  When bailey pulls his disappearing acts we miss sam.  Unfortunately bailey disappered in february

Comparing Bailey to Sam...when Bailey shows up... Now that is a good one. There is no comparison to the 2.

[mu-rara]

We dont miss joey at all.  We dont miss Sam either when Bailey shows up.  When bailey pulls his disappearing acts we miss sam.  Unfortunately bailey disappered in february

I keep hoping for Bailey to show up.  He hasn’t yet.  I’ve been a Wojo fan until this run of 5 games.  Supported him full on all 6 years until the last 5 games.  He has built his offense around a 5’11” shooting guard that can’t find the open players when he has 4 guys collapse on him.  The other guys are not accustomed to looking for the ball when it goes into Markus hands. Markus is a great scorer, not a great basketball player.  Wojo has had all offseason and most of this season to adjust.  Where is the Georgetown Markus?  I’m afraid Garcia is coming to Marquette because Wojo is getting a reputation as a coach who will highlight him for his NBA career. 

[Shooter McGavin]

Very good post. If only Wojo made an adjustment to stop Powell from making layups that hit the top of the backboard and last second contested threes. Credit to Seton Hall for playing very well. Sometimes it's as much as the opposing team winning than your crew losing, believe it or not.

For those who don't remember, MU lost to Seton Hall without Mamukelashvili. Both him and Gill are easily superior to MU's frontcourt. Mcknight is better than any of MU's secondary players. Powell is arguably better than Howard. Seton Hall is simply a very, very good team. MU is not even a very good team. Only a good team. I would have been pleasantly surprised with a win yesterday. But as a realist, I did not feel optimistic.

This team is six points away from being 21-7. There's only been a handful of games where Marquette completely fell flat and did not compete. Based on expectations going into the season I feel they are landing right around where I thought. Stings to have some of those one-point losses and last minute comebacks. Two games left before BE play. Could be 20-10 and who knows what can happen in March. Go MU.

All of this but especially the middle paragraph is spot on.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Ooh, a thread discussing hoops!

I was impressed that Wojo went with Theo and Jayce together yesterday - it was a good adjustment.  Perhaps just too late.

But you're right, when SHU is playing well, and Powell shares the ball, they are very difficult to beat (as the rest of the BE has figured out too).  They key seems to be to get into Powell's head and force him to make bad decisions (hog the ball).  Marquette wasn't able to do that yesterday.

At the point in which he tried the Theo and Jayce combo, they were the only 2 guys other than Markus that had showed up.  Jayce struggled the rest of the game from that point one.  Theo was quite good yesterday.  He made some amazing passes in the paint. 

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Ooh, a thread discussing hoops!

I was impressed that Wojo went with Theo and Jayce together yesterday - it was a good adjustment.  Perhaps just too late.

But you're right, when SHU is playing well, and Powell shares the ball, they are very difficult to beat (as the rest of the BE has figured out too).  They key seems to be to get into Powell's head and force him to make bad decisions (hog the ball).  Marquette wasn't able to do that yesterday.

I thought SH was playing great like they were earlier in the season when everyone started to say  "they have Final 4 potential".

[Ron Swanson]

I think a lot of the frustration for me as a fan is seeing a lot of basketball in other conferences.  The top of the Big East (Creighton, Hall, and Nova) is as good or better than any other conference.  There seem to be many examples in all conferences of dramatic upsets.  NC State beats Duke, Wake beats Duke, St. John's crushes Creighton, etc..... Someone mentioned that Wojo wins the games he should on paper (for the most part).  However, he almost never wins games he shouldn't.  Upsets and big wins, whether it be in season or the tournament, is what makes college basketball great.  The lack of upsets or quality wins makes this team and Wojo in particular tough to get excited about.  It is even more frustrating to have a player of Howard's caliber and still not be able to pull off an upset once in awhile.  I want to give Wojo the benefit of the doubt because I want him to succeed at MU.  I am just very concerned with the lack of improvement of the roster and his in game coaching decisions.  The fact that we have MH just compounds these concerns. 

As for the Hall game, I was impressed with how Jayce and Theo played when MH went out with those 2 early fouls.  Rather than changing the game plan and feeding the two bigs in the post (which was working), Wojo continued the bombs-away Howard offense, which dug us a big whole in the first place.

Finally, I could be dead wrong on this, but it appears to me that at times Wojo is looking to boost MH's stats more than get wins or more specifically get back into games.  It seems like Howard's personal statistics are more important than wins at times and that bothers me on several levels.
Hopefully Wojo can find a way to get the team to play together rather than standing around watching Markus, before it's too late.  Winning a couple games in the BET and at least one in the NCAA's would go along way with me and the rest of the fan base.

[Mods, Delete me please. 8/26/2020]

Soft.  BB, JC, GE are all way too soft and they were exposed against a tougher SH team. Sacar was weak too until the last 3 mins.  I thought I remembered Wojo being a tough as nails defender at duke — grinder, banger... maybe I was too young to comprehend (12-14), but toughness shouldn’t be an issue.  TJ and JJ have it, and MH showed it yesterday (although Willard gameplan was to let him have his day and make sure no one else got theirs).  Buzz/crean teams all had it, but seems like Wojo teams lack that edge.  Terribly soft. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

As for the Hall game, I was impressed with how Jayce and Theo played when MH went out with those 2 early fouls.  Rather than changing the game plan and feeding the two bigs in the post (which was working), Wojo continued the bombs-away Howard offense, which dug us a big whole in the first place.

When Markus went out, the score was 20-12 Seton Hall. When Markus came back in 5 minutes later, the score was 32-20. How was it working when Seton Hall was continuing to expand the lead?

Finally, I could be dead wrong on this, but it appears to me that at times Wojo is looking to boost MH's stats more than get wins or more specifically get back into games.  It seems like Howard's personal statistics are more important than wins at times and that bothers me on several levels.

You would be dead wrong on this.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Soft.  BB, JC, GE are all way too soft and they were exposed against a tougher SH team. Sacar was weak too until the last 3 mins.  I thought I remembered Wojo being a tough as nails defender at duke — grinder, banger... maybe I was too young to comprehend (12-14), but toughness shouldn’t be an issue.  TJ and JJ have it, and MH showed it yesterday (although Willard gameplan was to let him have his day and make sure no one else got theirs).  Buzz/crean teams all had it, but seems like Wojo teams lack that edge.  Terribly soft.

How does a terribly soft team collect 16 offensive rebounds to Seton Hall's 23 defensive rebounds? How do they cut a 24 point lead to 5 points?

I saw nothing soft in the Seton Hall game. I did see late rotation after late rotation, hands down on defense allowing skip passes and open looks, and a game plan designed to over protect the paint at the expense of leaving outside shooters open. I see those more as mental mistakes and coaching decisions than toughness, but if you may have a different definition.

To be clear, the loss was bad. Seton Hall beat us and beat us good. I just think you're autopsy of the game came to the wrong cause of death.

[BallBoy]

When Markus went out, the score was 20-12 Seton Hall. When Markus came back in 5 minutes later, the score was 32-20. How was it working when Seton Hall was continuing to expand the lead?

You would be dead wrong on this.

I pointed this out in another thread on adjustments. Wojo went to the interior game and cut the lead to within 6; however; we traded two point shots to Seton Hall’s threes. We also started to miss bunny shots.

Look at the game play by play. Seton Hall made 5 straight baskets including Powell’s top of backboard layup. It went 2-3-2-2-3 while MU was 2-2-2-0-2 for a net negative of 4 points. We also got three offensive rebounds in that stretch which made that line better. Our last two possessions in that stretch Anim missed a layup got his own rebound and missed. In the last Bailey missed Cain rebounded and sacar missed a three before Jayce rebounded and scored.

Again it worked offensively but on the other end we traded 2 for 3s so it might not have worked on that end.

Agree on your second point. No way does Wojo allow Howard to just lad his stats.

[SaveOD238]

He has built his offense around a 5’11” shooting guard that can’t find the open players when he has 4 guys collapse on him.

Check out the the three point shooting stars from Anim, Bailey, and McEwen the last 6 or 7 games.  Markus is finding open guys...they're just stone cold from deep right now.  Non Markus players were 4-17 from 3 on Saturday. 

[Ron Swanson]

When Markus went out, the score was 20-12 Seton Hall. When Markus came back in 5 minutes later, the score was 32-20. How was it working when Seton Hall was continuing to expand the lead?

You would be dead wrong on this.

You could be dead wrong on this.
Feeding the ball in the post was working. The only offense that worked all game other than Howard chucking 3's.  Also they were down 20-12 over the first 9 minutes running the "Watch Markus Shoot Offense" over the next 5 minutes they only trailed by 12.  The problem in that span wasn't the offense, it was the defense.  That was the original point, rather than going back to the "Watch Markus Shoot Offense" once foul trouble wasn't an issue, it would have been nice to see Wojo make more of an attempt to feed the ball to Jayce and Theo in the post.

[MUDPT]

You could be dead wrong on this.
Feeding the ball in the post was working. The only offense that worked all game other than Howard chucking 3's.  Also they were down 20-12 over the first 9 minutes running the "Watch Markus Shoot Offense" over the next 5 minutes they only trailed by 12.  The problem in that span wasn't the offense, it was the defense.  That was the original point, rather than going back to the "Watch Markus Shoot Offense" once foul trouble wasn't an issue, it would have been nice to see Wojo make more of an attempt to feed the ball to Jayce and Theo in the post.

I’m not sure why I have to post this in every thread. Our offense scored 1.18 PPP against the #17 defense in the country. If they played like that every game, it would by far be the best offense in the Big East. The offense is/ was never the problem the season.

The defense sucked. They block shots well and rebound well. That’s it. The rest of it is awful.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

You could be dead wrong on this.
Feeding the ball in the post was working. The only offense that worked all game other than Howard chucking 3's.  Also they were down 20-12 over the first 9 minutes running the "Watch Markus Shoot Offense" over the next 5 minutes they only trailed by 12.  The problem in that span wasn't the offense, it was the defense.  That was the original point, rather than going back to the "Watch Markus Shoot Offense" once foul trouble wasn't an issue, it would have been nice to see Wojo make more of an attempt to feed the ball to Jayce and Theo in the post.

No I couldn't be wrong.

The "watch Markus shoot offense" as you put it cut the lead from 24 to 5. The feed the bigs offense extended the lead by 4. Besides, Theo scored all of his points after Markus came back in the game. Jayce attempted half of his shots after Markus came back in the game. They continued to work it into the post throughout the game, it just wasn't as successful because Seton Hall adjusted to it.

As much as some people want to blame the offense, the offense was great in the Seton Hall game. It was the defense/Seton Hall's offense that was the problem.

[lawdog77]

You could be dead wrong on this.
Feeding the ball in the post was working. The only offense that worked all game other than Howard chucking 3's.  Also they were down 20-12 over the first 9 minutes running the "Watch Markus Shoot Offense" over the next 5 minutes they only trailed by 12.  The problem in that span wasn't the offense, it was the defense.  That was the original point, rather than going back to the "Watch Markus Shoot Offense" once foul trouble wasn't an issue, it would have been nice to see Wojo make more of an attempt to feed the ball to Jayce and Theo in the post.

Its not chucking threes when you are 6 for 6. Incredible take

[Ron Swanson]

Its not chucking threes when you are 6 for 6. Incredible take

Whether they go in or not has nothing to do with chucking.  Incredible take

The offense wasn't terrible in the Hall game and hasn't been terrible this season.  My point is I would love to see more continuity, both for results (winning formula and player improvement (something this team is sorely lacking).  Anyone who has coached or played the game knows that the star is going to get his, Willard said it himself.  The difference is getting the 2nd and 3rd options involved.  Too often we play into the opponents hands. 

[lawdog77]

Whether they go in or not has nothing to do with chucking.  Incredible take

The offense wasn't terrible in the Hall game and hasn't been terrible this season.  My point is I would love to see more continuity, both for results (winning formula and player improvement (something this team is sorely lacking).  Anyone who has coached or played the game knows that the star is going to get his, Willard said it himself.  The difference is getting the 2nd and 3rd options involved.  Too often we play into the opponents hands.

Chucking is a derogatory term that implies a bad shot (miss). How many 3's did he take in the first half. Markus was not the problem with the offense. Others missing shots were.