MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: NCMUFan on March 01, 2020, 08:34:49 AM
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not having more big bodies may have cost us the game.
I know water over the dam, but Ed, Joe and Sam would of been a very welcome site yesterday.
But we played the team we had the best we could.
I could see Seton Hall winning the NCAA tournament this year. Size and skill.
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Ooh, a thread discussing hoops!
I was impressed that Wojo went with Theo and Jayce together yesterday - it was a good adjustment. Perhaps just too late.
But you're right, when SHU is playing well, and Powell shares the ball, they are very difficult to beat (as the rest of the BE has figured out too). They key seems to be to get into Powell's head and force him to make bad decisions (hog the ball). Marquette wasn't able to do that yesterday.
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Bailey, koby and sacar had scored a total of one basket until the last 4 minutes of the game. They hit the equivalent of a few ninth inning homers in a game they were losing 10-0.
SHU role players hit open shots, MUs bricked them at an alarmingly poor rate.
Story of MUs season is not hitting open shots. In all of our losses those three have usually combined to shoot an atrocious number. Yesterday, they were 7-27 combined and that includes sacars 4 baskets and brendans 1 in the last 3 minutes. Before the last 3-4 minutes they were a combined 2-22, simply horrendous and not going to beat anyone.
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I spent part of the game playing the “what-if” ideas in my head. I’m not sure how big of a difference swapping bailey for Joey would have made overall. Seems like Willard game-planned for Mamu to back down bailey over and over (stan’s discussion of this in the TO made it seem like we also prepped for this). Unless Joey’s D drastically improved, he would have been torched repeatedly, so who knows if he gets in foul trouble.
Alas the reason of playing “what-ifs” is a fickle bitch.
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I'm amazed at how many people are willing to give Wojo a pass "they were on fire, we were missing, nothing Wojo could do"
Yes - they hit some tough shots, but there were many defensive sequences where our guys looked completely lost.
Yes - we missed some open looks, but there were many offensive sequences where our guys looked completely lost.
The making/missing isn't on Wojo. The looking lost is.
He's just so worthless as an in-game coach.
First half so lacklustre. We call a timeout at 13:30 (after 10-0 SH run - a basket too late at least) but no real adjustment coming out. He then inexplicably sits Markus for 7 minutes after 2nd foul - he's fouled out, what, once all year (and only had 3 by the end of the game)? He was en fuego - clearly with everyone else's shooting the only way we were going to win was if he went for 50 - which he might have - but can't score if he's not on the floor. But it's single digits at half - still a game.
So Wojo is going to make some halftime adjustments right? Light a fire under the boys? Realize that SH is shooting lights out so we need to run them off the 3pt line?
No, instead whatever brilliant adjustments he made at half lead SH to coming out on a 7-0 run to start the half and basically put the game away. No time out after Gill makes two dunks in a row to start the half. Only get a TO at 16:31 after Mamu makes it an 18-point game. Ok - plenty of time left - maybe we can crawl back to single digits with some good adjustments in the TO. Nope - SH outscores us 7-3 over the next 2 minutes to make it a 22 point game. Goodnight.
I mean great that he put Theo and Jaycee together in garbage time but he rarely makes any meaningful adjustment when the game still matters. Wojo's Plan B is like more Plan A but HARDER. I fail to understand how a guy on 2 million doesn't have at least 3 "distinct" looks/approaches that he can switch to if Plan A isn't working. Instead he just sits there with his dumb-a$$ thousand yard stare and hand-offs 35 feet from the basket.
When Plan A works (see vs. Butler) his teams look pretty. But when they don't it's just atrocious.
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Bailey, koby and sacar had scored a total of one basket until the last 4 minutes of the game. They hit the equivalent of a few ninth inning homers in a game they were losing 10-0.
SHU role players hit open shots, MUs bricked them at an alarmingly poor rate.
Story of MUs season is not hitting open shots. In all of our losses those three have usually combined to shoot an atrocious number. Yesterday, they were 7-27 combined and that includes sacars 4 baskets and brendans 1 in the last 3 minutes. Before the last 3-4 minutes they were a combined 2-22, simply horrendous and not going to beat anyone.
This is a good point, so much blame placed on Markus and Wojo, but if people are being honest, Sacar, Koby, and Bailey had terrible offensive days. Though they defensive plan/execution were bad yesterday.
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I spent part of the game playing the “what-if” ideas in my head. I’m not sure how big of a difference swapping bailey for Joey would have made overall. Seems like Willard game-planned for Mamu to back down bailey over and over (stan’s discussion of this in the TO made it seem like we also prepped for this). Unless Joey’s D drastically improved, he would have been torched repeatedly, so who knows if he gets in foul trouble.
Alas the reason of playing “what-ifs” is a fickle bitch.
We dont miss joey at all. We dont miss Sam either when Bailey shows up. When bailey pulls his disappearing acts we miss sam. Unfortunately bailey disappered in february
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This is a good point, so much blame placed on Markus and Wojo, but if people are being honest, Sacar, Koby, and Bailey had terrible offensive days. Though they defensive plan/execution were bad yesterday.
Im not sure SHU had anymore wide open looks than MU did, they made a high percentage, we bricked most.
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I'm amazed at how many people are willing to give Wojo a pass "they were on fire, we were missing, nothing Wojo could do"
Yes - they hit some tough shots, but there were many defensive sequences where our guys looked completely lost.
Yes - we missed some open looks, but there were many offensive sequences where our guys looked completely lost.
The making/missing isn't on Wojo. The looking lost is.
He's just so worthless as an in-game coach.
First half so lacklustre. We call a timeout at 13:30 (after 10-0 SH run - a basket too late at least) but no real adjustment coming out. He then inexplicably sits Markus for 7 minutes after 2nd foul - he's fouled out, what, once all year (and only had 3 by the end of the game)? He was en fuego - clearly with everyone else's shooting the only way we were going to win was if he went for 50 - which he might have - but can't score if he's not on the floor. But it's single digits at half - still a game.
So Wojo is going to make some halftime adjustments right? Light a fire under the boys? Realize that SH is shooting lights out so we need to run them off the 3pt line?
No, instead whatever brilliant adjustments he made at half lead SH to coming out on a 7-0 run to start the half and basically put the game away. No time out after Gill makes two dunks in a row to start the half. Only get a TO at 16:31 after Mamu makes it an 18-point game. Ok - plenty of time left - maybe we can crawl back to single digits with some good adjustments in the TO. Nope - SH outscores us 7-3 over the next 2 minutes to make it a 22 point game. Goodnight.
I mean great that he put Theo and Jaycee together in garbage time but he rarely makes any meaningful adjustment when the game still matters. Wojo's Plan B is like more Plan A but HARDER. I fail to understand how a guy on 2 million doesn't have at least 3 "distinct" looks/approaches that he can switch to if Plan A isn't working. Instead he just sits there with his dumb-a$$ thousand yard stare and hand-offs 35 feet from the basket.
When Plan A works (see vs. Butler) his teams look pretty. But when they don't it's just atrocious.
Seton hall has shot very poorly from 3 this year and tended to pound the ball inside. So if we spread the Defense n they lob to Gill for dunks, would Wojo be an even dumber coach ?? U dont know anything about gameplanning. Ur post is ignorant
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I'm amazed at how many people are willing to give Wojo a pass "they were on fire, we were missing, nothing Wojo could do"
Yes - they hit some tough shots, but there were many defensive sequences where our guys looked completely lost.
Yes - we missed some open looks, but there were many offensive sequences where our guys looked completely lost.
The making/missing isn't on Wojo. The looking lost is.
He's just so worthless as an in-game coach.
First half so lacklustre. We call a timeout at 13:30 (after 10-0 SH run - a basket too late at least) but no real adjustment coming out. He then inexplicably sits Markus for 7 minutes after 2nd foul - he's fouled out, what, once all year (and only had 3 by the end of the game)? He was en fuego - clearly with everyone else's shooting the only way we were going to win was if he went for 50 - which he might have - but can't score if he's not on the floor. But it's single digits at half - still a game.
So Wojo is going to make some halftime adjustments right? Light a fire under the boys? Realize that SH is shooting lights out so we need to run them off the 3pt line?
No, instead whatever brilliant adjustments he made at half lead SH to coming out on a 7-0 run to start the half and basically put the game away. No time out after Gill makes two dunks in a row to start the half. Only get a TO at 16:31 after Mamu makes it an 18-point game. Ok - plenty of time left - maybe we can crawl back to single digits with some good adjustments in the TO. Nope - SH outscores us 7-3 over the next 2 minutes to make it a 22 point game. Goodnight.
I mean great that he put Theo and Jaycee together in garbage time but he rarely makes any meaningful adjustment when the game still matters. Wojo's Plan B is like more Plan A but HARDER. I fail to understand how a guy on 2 million doesn't have at least 3 "distinct" looks/approaches that he can switch to if Plan A isn't working. Instead he just sits there with his dumb-a$$ thousand yard stare and hand-offs 35 feet from the basket.
When Plan A works (see vs. Butler) his teams look pretty. But when they don't it's just atrocious.
+1000 and of course in his post game presser he exclaimed "we fired every bullet we had". I shook my head and laughed and just thought "typical response". No, you did not fire every bullet you had Wojo...not even close.
For the record, for those that say "what are you gonna do when they are shooting like that"...this was the third worst defense efficiency game they have played in the last 12 years...it seems whenever it's a big game, the defense is brutally bad as far as efficiency goes. Who's fault is that??
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... (Wojo) rarely makes any meaningful adjustment when the game still matters. Wojo's Plan B is like more Plan A but HARDER.
I love this line.
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Seton hall has shot very poorly from 3 this year and tended to pound the ball inside. So if we spread the Defense n they lob to Gill for dunks, would Wojo be an even dumber coach ?? U dont know anything about gameplanning. Ur post is ignorant
Sure. That was plan A. Once they started hitting 3s at a 70% clip it might have been time to adjust.
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I love this line.
Agree. Great line. 1SE echoes what I’ve said is my biggest gripe with Wojo; he has no counterpunch. We’ve seen it over and over.
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We dont miss joey at all. We dont miss Sam either when Bailey shows up. When bailey pulls his disappearing acts we miss sam. Unfortunately bailey disappered in february
Sam was about the 20th most valuable player in the country last year per Auburn Marquette’s numbers. Bailey is about #400 this year.
IOW, one’s a star and one’s just OK (but not even as good as Joey, let alone Sam).
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Agree. Great line. 1SE echoes what I’ve said is my biggest gripe with Wojo; he has no counterpunch. We’ve seen it over and over.
It's so frustrating. I think great coaches/teams/systems are those that can win in more than one way. We've done that a few times over the past few years, but it seems the exception not the rule.
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It's so frustrating. I think great coaches/teams/systems are those that can win in more than one way. We've done that a few times over the past few years, but it seems the exception not the rule.
It’s one of the reasons i say I’ve not seen any substantial growth or development from Wojo as a coach. Others say they see it. I don’t.
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We dont miss joey at all. We dont miss Sam either when Bailey shows up. When bailey pulls his disappearing acts we miss sam. Unfortunately bailey disappered in february
This is absurd. Bailey is inconsistent AF. Sam was the hallmark of consistent. Joey also was better than BB. Brendan has had some nice moments this year, but in truth he was pretty bad last year. Not a high bar to clear as it relates to improvement.
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It's so frustrating. I think great coaches/teams/systems are those that can win in more than one way. We've done that a few times over the past few years, but it seems the exception not the rule.
You're posts are absolutely on fire today man! This has also been a repeated grip of mine...where are the adjustments, the bag of tricks so to speak?? We see them so infrequently. And it is definitely the exception that they have won that way, not the norm.
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This is absurd. Bailey is inconsistent AF. Sam was the hallmark of consistent. Joey also was better than BB. Brendan has had some nice moments this year, but in truth he was pretty bad last year. Not a high bar to clear as it relates to improvement.
Totally agree.
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Sure. That was plan A. Once they started hitting 3s at a 70% clip it might have been time to adjust.
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This has been discussed here before, but I think it's Wojo's main flaw. He tends to sag off poor shooters and make them beat you. When they don't, we look excellent. When they do start hitting, the adjustment doesn't come and assumes they'll regress to the mean. If they don't regress, games get ugly.
I don't think it is a terrible strategy but it can backfire at times.
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This is absurd. Bailey is inconsistent AF. Sam was the hallmark of consistent. Joey also was better than BB. Brendan has had some nice moments this year, but in truth he was pretty bad last year. Not a high bar to clear as it relates to improvement.
Yeah. I can get at least understand why some think we don't miss Joey. His defense was terrible and BB is much better at that end.
We miss Sam greatly.
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We dont miss joey at all. We dont miss Sam either when Bailey shows up. When bailey pulls his disappearing acts we miss sam. Unfortunately bailey disappered in february
We miss Sam's smarts and ball movement and shooting always. We don't miss Joey when Bailey shows up.
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You're posts are absolutely on fire today man! This has also been a repeated grip of mine...where are the adjustments, the bag of tricks so to speak?? We see them so infrequently. And it is definitely the exception that they have won that way, not the norm.
What everyone is describing is a Final Four team. I think we all can agree that MU is not that. I have been saying for awhile Seton Hall is. We saw that today. We saw Mamu stretching the d. We saw Powell working inside and out. We saw McKnight being great. We saw role players hitting their shots. Seton Hall hit some prayers.
Adjustments is the most over used coaching term. Anyone who says if we only made adjustments we would win doesn’t know basketball. There is no bag of tricks that if a coach rolled them out you would magically win.
You go in with your best plan to win. You then have a few ideas you are going to try to exploit. If you notice after everyone was cold Wojo started to focus on interior play with Theo and Jayce. We started to fall further behind because Seton hall was hitting threes to our twos. Jayce and Theo also started to miss. Wojo sent Bailey to the free throw line to hit jumpers. He hit one early clanked the rest. He was getting the ball to Anim to drive. He was clanking pull up jumpers.
If you notice when Wojo feels we absolutely need a basket it goes to Howard. Howard talked about it. “Wojo gives me this look”.
An “adjustment” as this crew defines it has a shelf life of 2-3 trips down the floor. After that it gets shutdown. We saw that yesterday. As MU made a run the Hall would clamp down and the tide would turn. What everyone should be discussing is second or third options in the game plan. If Howard drives and someone doubles someone should be open. In a lot of cases, the ball got to that open player. They clanked the shot.
Seton Hall is a final four caliber team. it took Willard 10yrs to build that team. They were in the bottom of the Big East. MU is not there yet.
Each recruiting crew has to be better than the wave before them. Wojo is doing that. This group of players are better than their predecessors but not great. This next group should be better.
Start to break down the game and you will see what is being done instead of just judging made or missed basketball. You will also see that Seton hall spread the love because as we focused on shutting done one mismatch they just moved to the next one.
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You're posts are absolutely on fire today man! This has also been a repeated grip of mine...where are the adjustments, the bag of tricks so to speak?? We see them so infrequently. And it is definitely the exception that they have won that way, not the norm.
You must not have watched yesterday. Otherwise you would have seen the trick of playing jayce and Theo together.
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What everyone is describing is a Final Four team. I think we all can agree that MU is not that. I have been saying for awhile Seton Hall is. We saw that today. We saw Mamu stretching the d. We saw Powell working inside and out. We saw McKnight being great. We saw role players hitting their shots. Seton Hall hit some prayers.
Adjustments is the most over used coaching term. Anyone who says if we only made adjustments we would win doesn’t know basketball. There is no bag of tricks that if a coach rolled them out you would magically win.
You go in with your best plan to win. You then have a few ideas you are going to try to exploit. If you notice after everyone was cold Wojo started to focus on interior play with Theo and Jayce. We started to fall further behind because Seton hall was hitting threes to our twos. Jayce and Theo also started to miss. Wojo sent Bailey to the free throw line to hit jumpers. He hit one early clanked the rest. He was getting the ball to Anim to drive. He was clanking pull up jumpers.
If you notice when Wojo feels we absolutely need a basket it goes to Howard. Howard talked about it. “Wojo gives me this look”.
An “adjustment” as this crew defines it has a shelf life of 2-3 trips down the floor. After that it gets shutdown. We saw that yesterday. As MU made a run the Hall would clamp down and the tide would turn. What everyone should be discussing is second or third options in the game plan. If Howard drives and someone doubles someone should be open. In a lot of cases, the ball got to that open player. They clanked the shot.
Seton Hall is a final four caliber team. it took Willard 10yrs to build that team. They were in the bottom of the Big East. MU is not there yet.
Each recruiting crew has to be better than the wave before them. Wojo is doing that. This group of players are better than their predecessors but not great. This next group should be better.
Start to break down the game and you will see what is being done instead of just judging made or missed basketball. You will also see that Seton hall spread the love because as we focused on shutting done one mismatch they just moved to the next one.
Very good post. If only Wojo made an adjustment to stop Powell from making layups that hit the top of the backboard and last second contested threes. Credit to Seton Hall for playing very well. Sometimes it's as much as the opposing team winning than your crew losing, believe it or not.
For those who don't remember, MU lost to Seton Hall without Mamukelashvili. Both him and Gill are easily superior to MU's frontcourt. Mcknight is better than any of MU's secondary players. Powell is arguably better than Howard. Seton Hall is simply a very, very good team. MU is not even a very good team. Only a good team. I would have been pleasantly surprised with a win yesterday. But as a realist, I did not feel optimistic.
This team is six points away from being 21-7. There's only been a handful of games where Marquette completely fell flat and did not compete. Based on expectations going into the season I feel they are landing right around where I thought. Stings to have some of those one-point losses and last minute comebacks. Two games left before BE play. Could be 20-10 and who knows what can happen in March. Go MU.
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What everyone is describing is a Final Four team. I think we all can agree that MU is not that. I have been saying for awhile Seton Hall is. We saw that today. We saw Mamu stretching the d. We saw Powell working inside and out. We saw McKnight being great. We saw role players hitting their shots. Seton Hall hit some prayers.
Adjustments is the most over used coaching term. Anyone who says if we only made adjustments we would win doesn’t know basketball. There is no bag of tricks that if a coach rolled them out you would magically win.
You go in with your best plan to win. You then have a few ideas you are going to try to exploit. If you notice after everyone was cold Wojo started to focus on interior play with Theo and Jayce. We started to fall further behind because Seton hall was hitting threes to our twos. Jayce and Theo also started to miss. Wojo sent Bailey to the free throw line to hit jumpers. He hit one early clanked the rest. He was getting the ball to Anim to drive. He was clanking pull up jumpers.
If you notice when Wojo feels we absolutely need a basket it goes to Howard. Howard talked about it. “Wojo gives me this look”.
An “adjustment” as this crew defines it has a shelf life of 2-3 trips down the floor. After that it gets shutdown. We saw that yesterday. As MU made a run the Hall would clamp down and the tide would turn. What everyone should be discussing is second or third options in the game plan. If Howard drives and someone doubles someone should be open. In a lot of cases, the ball got to that open player. They clanked the shot.
Seton Hall is a final four caliber team. it took Willard 10yrs to build that team. They were in the bottom of the Big East. MU is not there yet.
Each recruiting crew has to be better than the wave before them. Wojo is doing that. This group of players are better than their predecessors but not great. This next group should be better.
Start to break down the game and you will see what is being done instead of just judging made or missed basketball. You will also see that Seton hall spread the love because as we focused on shutting done one mismatch they just moved to the next one.
This is quality content regardless of "side." Thanks for contributing.
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This is quality content regardless of "side." Thanks for contributing.
+1
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This has been discussed here before, but I think it's Wojo's main flaw. He tends to sag off poor shooters and make them beat you. When they don't, we look excellent. When they do start hitting, the adjustment doesn't come and assumes they'll regress to the mean. If they don't regress, games get ugly.
I don't think it is a terrible strategy but it can backfire at times.
I am not nearly as attuned or nuanced in dissecting the game as ballboy, but this was always my impression. Felt a lot like "i hope they dont shoot well"
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This has been discussed here before, but I think it's Wojo's main flaw. He tends to sag off poor shooters and make them beat you. When they don't, we look excellent. When they do start hitting, the adjustment doesn't come and assumes they'll regress to the mean. If they don't regress, games get ugly.
I don't think it is a terrible strategy but it can backfire at times.
This is also backed up by Wojo's comments in the post game presser. He kept mentioning the low shooting percentages of the guys who shot well yesterday from deep and said "people better watch out" a bunch of times.
I don't think it's a terrible strategy either, but it should be recognized and corrected earlier on once the first couple of shots go down. I thought this strategy really backfired in last year's NCAA tournament game.
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This is also backed up by Wojo's comments in the post game presser. He kept mentioning the low shooting percentages of the guys who shot well yesterday from deep and said "people better watch out" a bunch of times.
I don't think it's a terrible strategy either, but it should be recognized and corrected earlier on once the first couple of shots go down. I thought this strategy really backfired in last year's NCAA tournament game.
100%. And just like last year’s Murray State drubbing he had no counterpunch
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This is absurd. Bailey is inconsistent AF. Sam was the hallmark of consistent. Joey also was better than BB. Brendan has had some nice moments this year, but in truth he was pretty bad last year. Not a high bar to clear as it relates to improvement.
Reading comprehension guru.... i said when brendan was playing well. Translation when brendan was scoring 15 and getting 8 rebounds we dont miss sam
When hes not consistant we do. And i woukd argue Joeys defense being so horrible made him an equal to brendan are far as value to the team.
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Reading comprehension guru.... i said when brendan was playing well. Translation when brendan was scoring 15 and getting 8 rebounds we dont miss sam
When hes not consistant we do. And i woukd argue Joeys defense being so horrible made him an equal to brendan are far as value to the team.
BB at his best (which has been way way too infrequent) doesn’t make us miss Sam less.
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Reading comprehension guru.... i said when brendan was playing well. Translation when brendan was scoring 15 and getting 8 rebounds we dont miss sam
When hes not consistant we do. And i woukd argue Joeys defense being so horrible made him an equal to brendan are far as value to the team.
Okay. So basically the 1 in 4 games Brendan plays well. Brendan has 7 double digit scoring games all year. Yes, he’s a better defender than Joey was. But that’s it.
Brendan O-Rating this year against Tier A Comp? 99 on 14% usage. Joey last year? 124 on 15% usage.
No need to even think about comparing BB to Sam.
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We dont miss joey at all. We dont miss Sam either when Bailey shows up. When bailey pulls his disappearing acts we miss sam. Unfortunately bailey disappered in february
Comparing Bailey to Sam...when Bailey shows up... Now that is a good one. There is no comparison to the 2.
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We dont miss joey at all. We dont miss Sam either when Bailey shows up. When bailey pulls his disappearing acts we miss sam. Unfortunately bailey disappered in february
I keep hoping for Bailey to show up. He hasn’t yet. I’ve been a Wojo fan until this run of 5 games. Supported him full on all 6 years until the last 5 games. He has built his offense around a 5’11” shooting guard that can’t find the open players when he has 4 guys collapse on him. The other guys are not accustomed to looking for the ball when it goes into Markus hands. Markus is a great scorer, not a great basketball player. Wojo has had all offseason and most of this season to adjust. Where is the Georgetown Markus? I’m afraid Garcia is coming to Marquette because Wojo is getting a reputation as a coach who will highlight him for his NBA career.
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Very good post. If only Wojo made an adjustment to stop Powell from making layups that hit the top of the backboard and last second contested threes. Credit to Seton Hall for playing very well. Sometimes it's as much as the opposing team winning than your crew losing, believe it or not.
For those who don't remember, MU lost to Seton Hall without Mamukelashvili. Both him and Gill are easily superior to MU's frontcourt. Mcknight is better than any of MU's secondary players. Powell is arguably better than Howard. Seton Hall is simply a very, very good team. MU is not even a very good team. Only a good team. I would have been pleasantly surprised with a win yesterday. But as a realist, I did not feel optimistic.
This team is six points away from being 21-7. There's only been a handful of games where Marquette completely fell flat and did not compete. Based on expectations going into the season I feel they are landing right around where I thought. Stings to have some of those one-point losses and last minute comebacks. Two games left before BE play. Could be 20-10 and who knows what can happen in March. Go MU.
All of this but especially the middle paragraph is spot on.
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Ooh, a thread discussing hoops!
I was impressed that Wojo went with Theo and Jayce together yesterday - it was a good adjustment. Perhaps just too late.
But you're right, when SHU is playing well, and Powell shares the ball, they are very difficult to beat (as the rest of the BE has figured out too). They key seems to be to get into Powell's head and force him to make bad decisions (hog the ball). Marquette wasn't able to do that yesterday.
At the point in which he tried the Theo and Jayce combo, they were the only 2 guys other than Markus that had showed up. Jayce struggled the rest of the game from that point one. Theo was quite good yesterday. He made some amazing passes in the paint.
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Ooh, a thread discussing hoops!
I was impressed that Wojo went with Theo and Jayce together yesterday - it was a good adjustment. Perhaps just too late.
But you're right, when SHU is playing well, and Powell shares the ball, they are very difficult to beat (as the rest of the BE has figured out too). They key seems to be to get into Powell's head and force him to make bad decisions (hog the ball). Marquette wasn't able to do that yesterday.
I thought SH was playing great like they were earlier in the season when everyone started to say "they have Final 4 potential".
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I think a lot of the frustration for me as a fan is seeing a lot of basketball in other conferences. The top of the Big East (Creighton, Hall, and Nova) is as good or better than any other conference. There seem to be many examples in all conferences of dramatic upsets. NC State beats Duke, Wake beats Duke, St. John's crushes Creighton, etc..... Someone mentioned that Wojo wins the games he should on paper (for the most part). However, he almost never wins games he shouldn't. Upsets and big wins, whether it be in season or the tournament, is what makes college basketball great. The lack of upsets or quality wins makes this team and Wojo in particular tough to get excited about. It is even more frustrating to have a player of Howard's caliber and still not be able to pull off an upset once in awhile. I want to give Wojo the benefit of the doubt because I want him to succeed at MU. I am just very concerned with the lack of improvement of the roster and his in game coaching decisions. The fact that we have MH just compounds these concerns.
As for the Hall game, I was impressed with how Jayce and Theo played when MH went out with those 2 early fouls. Rather than changing the game plan and feeding the two bigs in the post (which was working), Wojo continued the bombs-away Howard offense, which dug us a big whole in the first place.
Finally, I could be dead wrong on this, but it appears to me that at times Wojo is looking to boost MH's stats more than get wins or more specifically get back into games. It seems like Howard's personal statistics are more important than wins at times and that bothers me on several levels.
Hopefully Wojo can find a way to get the team to play together rather than standing around watching Markus, before it's too late. Winning a couple games in the BET and at least one in the NCAA's would go along way with me and the rest of the fan base.
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Soft. BB, JC, GE are all way too soft and they were exposed against a tougher SH team. Sacar was weak too until the last 3 mins. I thought I remembered Wojo being a tough as nails defender at duke — grinder, banger... maybe I was too young to comprehend (12-14), but toughness shouldn’t be an issue. TJ and JJ have it, and MH showed it yesterday (although Willard gameplan was to let him have his day and make sure no one else got theirs). Buzz/crean teams all had it, but seems like Wojo teams lack that edge. Terribly soft.
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As for the Hall game, I was impressed with how Jayce and Theo played when MH went out with those 2 early fouls. Rather than changing the game plan and feeding the two bigs in the post (which was working), Wojo continued the bombs-away Howard offense, which dug us a big whole in the first place.
When Markus went out, the score was 20-12 Seton Hall. When Markus came back in 5 minutes later, the score was 32-20. How was it working when Seton Hall was continuing to expand the lead?
Finally, I could be dead wrong on this, but it appears to me that at times Wojo is looking to boost MH's stats more than get wins or more specifically get back into games. It seems like Howard's personal statistics are more important than wins at times and that bothers me on several levels.
You would be dead wrong on this.
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Soft. BB, JC, GE are all way too soft and they were exposed against a tougher SH team. Sacar was weak too until the last 3 mins. I thought I remembered Wojo being a tough as nails defender at duke — grinder, banger... maybe I was too young to comprehend (12-14), but toughness shouldn’t be an issue. TJ and JJ have it, and MH showed it yesterday (although Willard gameplan was to let him have his day and make sure no one else got theirs). Buzz/crean teams all had it, but seems like Wojo teams lack that edge. Terribly soft.
How does a terribly soft team collect 16 offensive rebounds to Seton Hall's 23 defensive rebounds? How do they cut a 24 point lead to 5 points?
I saw nothing soft in the Seton Hall game. I did see late rotation after late rotation, hands down on defense allowing skip passes and open looks, and a game plan designed to over protect the paint at the expense of leaving outside shooters open. I see those more as mental mistakes and coaching decisions than toughness, but if you may have a different definition.
To be clear, the loss was bad. Seton Hall beat us and beat us good. I just think you're autopsy of the game came to the wrong cause of death.
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When Markus went out, the score was 20-12 Seton Hall. When Markus came back in 5 minutes later, the score was 32-20. How was it working when Seton Hall was continuing to expand the lead?
You would be dead wrong on this.
I pointed this out in another thread on adjustments. Wojo went to the interior game and cut the lead to within 6; however; we traded two point shots to Seton Hall’s threes. We also started to miss bunny shots.
Look at the game play by play. Seton Hall made 5 straight baskets including Powell’s top of backboard layup. It went 2-3-2-2-3 while MU was 2-2-2-0-2 for a net negative of 4 points. We also got three offensive rebounds in that stretch which made that line better. Our last two possessions in that stretch Anim missed a layup got his own rebound and missed. In the last Bailey missed Cain rebounded and sacar missed a three before Jayce rebounded and scored.
Again it worked offensively but on the other end we traded 2 for 3s so it might not have worked on that end.
Agree on your second point. No way does Wojo allow Howard to just lad his stats.
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He has built his offense around a 5’11” shooting guard that can’t find the open players when he has 4 guys collapse on him.
Check out the the three point shooting stars from Anim, Bailey, and McEwen the last 6 or 7 games. Markus is finding open guys...they're just stone cold from deep right now. Non Markus players were 4-17 from 3 on Saturday.
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When Markus went out, the score was 20-12 Seton Hall. When Markus came back in 5 minutes later, the score was 32-20. How was it working when Seton Hall was continuing to expand the lead?
You would be dead wrong on this.
You could be dead wrong on this.
Feeding the ball in the post was working. The only offense that worked all game other than Howard chucking 3's. Also they were down 20-12 over the first 9 minutes running the "Watch Markus Shoot Offense" over the next 5 minutes they only trailed by 12. The problem in that span wasn't the offense, it was the defense. That was the original point, rather than going back to the "Watch Markus Shoot Offense" once foul trouble wasn't an issue, it would have been nice to see Wojo make more of an attempt to feed the ball to Jayce and Theo in the post.
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You could be dead wrong on this.
Feeding the ball in the post was working. The only offense that worked all game other than Howard chucking 3's. Also they were down 20-12 over the first 9 minutes running the "Watch Markus Shoot Offense" over the next 5 minutes they only trailed by 12. The problem in that span wasn't the offense, it was the defense. That was the original point, rather than going back to the "Watch Markus Shoot Offense" once foul trouble wasn't an issue, it would have been nice to see Wojo make more of an attempt to feed the ball to Jayce and Theo in the post.
I’m not sure why I have to post this in every thread. Our offense scored 1.18 PPP against the #17 defense in the country. If they played like that every game, it would by far be the best offense in the Big East. The offense is/ was never the problem the season.
The defense sucked. They block shots well and rebound well. That’s it. The rest of it is awful.
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You could be dead wrong on this.
Feeding the ball in the post was working. The only offense that worked all game other than Howard chucking 3's. Also they were down 20-12 over the first 9 minutes running the "Watch Markus Shoot Offense" over the next 5 minutes they only trailed by 12. The problem in that span wasn't the offense, it was the defense. That was the original point, rather than going back to the "Watch Markus Shoot Offense" once foul trouble wasn't an issue, it would have been nice to see Wojo make more of an attempt to feed the ball to Jayce and Theo in the post.
No I couldn't be wrong.
The "watch Markus shoot offense" as you put it cut the lead from 24 to 5. The feed the bigs offense extended the lead by 4. Besides, Theo scored all of his points after Markus came back in the game. Jayce attempted half of his shots after Markus came back in the game. They continued to work it into the post throughout the game, it just wasn't as successful because Seton Hall adjusted to it.
As much as some people want to blame the offense, the offense was great in the Seton Hall game. It was the defense/Seton Hall's offense that was the problem.
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You could be dead wrong on this.
Feeding the ball in the post was working. The only offense that worked all game other than Howard chucking 3's. Also they were down 20-12 over the first 9 minutes running the "Watch Markus Shoot Offense" over the next 5 minutes they only trailed by 12. The problem in that span wasn't the offense, it was the defense. That was the original point, rather than going back to the "Watch Markus Shoot Offense" once foul trouble wasn't an issue, it would have been nice to see Wojo make more of an attempt to feed the ball to Jayce and Theo in the post.
Its not chucking threes when you are 6 for 6. Incredible take
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Its not chucking threes when you are 6 for 6. Incredible take
Whether they go in or not has nothing to do with chucking. Incredible take
The offense wasn't terrible in the Hall game and hasn't been terrible this season. My point is I would love to see more continuity, both for results (winning formula and player improvement (something this team is sorely lacking). Anyone who has coached or played the game knows that the star is going to get his, Willard said it himself. The difference is getting the 2nd and 3rd options involved. Too often we play into the opponents hands.
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Whether they go in or not has nothing to do with chucking. Incredible take
The offense wasn't terrible in the Hall game and hasn't been terrible this season. My point is I would love to see more continuity, both for results (winning formula and player improvement (something this team is sorely lacking). Anyone who has coached or played the game knows that the star is going to get his, Willard said it himself. The difference is getting the 2nd and 3rd options involved. Too often we play into the opponents hands.
Chucking is a derogatory term that implies a bad shot (miss). How many 3's did he take in the first half. Markus was not the problem with the offense. Others missing shots were.
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Whether they go in or not has nothing to do with chucking. Incredible take
The offense wasn't terrible in the Hall game and hasn't been terrible this season. My point is I would love to see more continuity, both for results (winning formula and player improvement (something this team is sorely lacking). Anyone who has coached or played the game knows that the star is going to get his, Willard said it himself. The difference is getting the 2nd and 3rd options involved. Too often we play into the opponents hands.
Sacar took 1 fewer shots than Markus in the first half, how many more shots are required so that he is considered "involved" in the offense?
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Chucking is a derogatory term that implies a bad shot (miss). How many 3's did he take in the first half. Markus was not the problem with the offense. Others missing shots were.
Markus absolutely is a chucker from time to time, but Seton Hall was not one of those days. Maybe 1 or 2 of the 9 3's were questionable, and there is nothing wrong with that. I'm not a fan of the way we play with Markus, but his last two games at the Fiserv he was great (although 6 turnovers Saturday was not great).
The other guys being 4-17 was very bad, because they only take open, in rhythm shots. I agree with those that say the offense was fine Saturday and the defense was atrocious. There were times in the first half where Seton Hall seemed to have 3 guys wide open.
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Whether they go in or not has nothing to do with chucking. Incredible take
The offense wasn't terrible in the Hall game and hasn't been terrible this season. My point is I would love to see more continuity, both for results (winning formula and player improvement (something this team is sorely lacking). Anyone who has coached or played the game knows that the star is going to get his, Willard said it himself. The difference is getting the 2nd and 3rd options involved. Too often we play into the opponents hands.
They were definitely involved in that game. They had open shots within the flow of the offense. And they missed them. "Anyone who has coached or played the game knows" that the other players actually have to step up.
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Whether they go in or not has nothing to do with chucking. Incredible take
The offense wasn't terrible in the Hall game and hasn't been terrible this season. My point is I would love to see more continuity, both for results (winning formula and player improvement (something this team is sorely lacking). Anyone who has coached or played the game knows that the star is going to get his, Willard said it himself. The difference is getting the 2nd and 3rd options involved. Too often we play into the opponents hands.
I’m sure Willard was happy with the worst defensive performance by SH this year. The only way this makes sense, is if last week Willard decided not to game plan for any defense and just figured “Marquette sucks on defense, we will just out score them.”
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Sure your right, keep allowing Markus to set scoring records, while the team shows little improvement as individuals or as a team. It's been very entertaining watching Markus for the last 4 seasons. Too bad it hasn't been enjoyable at all to watch Marquette.
But by all means keep up the narrative that this disappointing season (and the last 5) have been because of "players not stepping up." ::)
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Sure your right, keep allowing Markus to set scoring records, while the team shows little improvement as individuals or as a team. It's been very entertaining watching Markus for the last 4 seasons. Too bad it hasn't been enjoyable at all to watch Marquette.
But by all means keep up the narrative that this disappointing season (and the last 5) have been because of "players not stepping up." ::)
There have been games where Markus has shot us out of games. This is not one of them.
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There have been games where Markus has shot us out of games. This is not one of them.
Agree 100%
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Agree 100%
You agree? Basically all of your posts in this thread say the loss is due to Markus chucking/padding his stats.
Wut?
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You agree? Basically all of your posts in this thread say the loss is due to Markus chucking/padding his stats.
Wut?
No I didn't say that at all, and I put none of this on Markus. My frustration comes from Wojo's inability to get his guys to play as a team on both sides of the ball. The lack of wins with a player of Markus's caliber is disturbing. Not sure how that is even debatable or controversial?
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No I didn't say that at all, and I put none of this on Markus. My frustration comes from Wojo's inability to get his guys to play as a team on both sides of the ball. The lack of wins with a player of Markus's caliber is disturbing. Not sure how that is even debatable or controversial?
The teams that had overall #1 selection in the 2018, 2017, and 2016 NBA drafts did not win an NCAA tournament game. Two of those three teams did not make the tournament. And all of them had a 2nd best player that was better than Sacar.
This isn't unprecedented. I wish we had a lot more success but it's not like this is just a Marquette issue. "Disturbing" is an overreaction.
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One game after Marquette set season highs in Big East play with 93 points and 23 assists, the team seemingly forgot how to run effective offense.
Why bother with ball movement? Or working to find the open man? Dribbling the ball around the perimeter and straight into double-teams is a great way to create good looks at the basket, right?
That's actually beside the point. Marquette is 2-6 this season when giving up 80 points or more. And this was quite possibly the worst defensive performance of the season. MU gave up 88 points at home to a Seton Hall team that averages 75 a game. It was Seton Hall's highest scoring output in Big East play. Ugh. The defensive letdown was a far bigger factor in the loss than the offense falling flat. We simply weren't competitive for most of the game.
Give Seton Hall credit. They're a very good team. But this was the most discouraging loss of the season for me. With the conference tournament just around the corner, Marquette doesn't exactly look like it's playing its best ball.
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The teams that had overall #1 selection in the 2018, 2017, and 2016 NBA drafts did not win an NCAA tournament game. Two of those three teams did not make the tournament. And all of them had a 2nd best player that was better than Sacar.
This isn't unprecedented. I wish we had a lot more success but it's not like this is just a Marquette issue. "Disturbing" is an overreaction.
Yes. Very much an overreaction. Especially considering that Markus is a scorer but far from a point guard. This team lacks a true facilitator and has for quite some time. A guy that has that third eye to read defenses and get his teammates the easiest of looks. Markus occasionally finds guys due to double teams, but their shooting from deep has been rather inconsistent other than Anim. With that said, he's a shooting guard in a point guard's body.
The idea that guys haven't improved is silly. Truthfully I was unsure if Anim would even finish his career at MU and he worked his way up to being a very solid Big East player. Bailey's season has been up and down but certainly has progressed from last year. Cain has improved this year. Elliott to be decided. Jayce has been a pleasant surprise. Theo is playing under where I hoped he would be at this point. I just think some of his issues are hard to coach. Like big man savviness. Sometimes one is just a good rebounder because of an innate knack for knowing where the ball will bounce.
And then of course Koby has been a total enigma. He's helped win a couple games, had some showtime moments during close losses, but most of the time just lives in his own head. Preseason reports on his performance raised expectations. It seems most here, including myself, were expecting him to be a strong secondary player to Markus and one of the team leaders. Now he's slowly losing minutes to Torrence with his bad play. Just unrealistic for things to work out perfectly for every player with an upwards trajectory.
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One game after Marquette set season highs in Big East play with 93 points and 23 assists, the team seemingly forgot how to run effective offense.
Why bother with ball movement? Or working to find the open man? Dribbling the ball around the perimeter and straight into double-teams is a great way to create good looks at the basket, right?
That's actually beside the point. Marquette is 2-6 this season when giving up 80 points or more. And this was quite possibly the worst defensive performance of the season. MU gave up 88 points at home to a Seton Hall team that averages 75 a game. It was Seton Hall's highest scoring output in Big East play. Ugh. The defensive letdown was a far bigger factor in the loss than the offense falling flat. We simply weren't competitive for most of the game.
Give Seton Hall credit. They're a very good team. But this was the most discouraging loss of the season for me. With the conference tournament just around the corner, Marquette doesn't exactly look like it's playing its best ball.
Marquette does very well when they are not physically outmanned. Georgetown has a very short roster with mostly players that are built like Cain. Physically we cannot compete with physical teams like Providence and Seton Hall, especially if the refs are not going to call fouls.