Making a murder

[Benny B]

I can honestly say that at this point, I really don't care whether Avery is guilty or innocent... I am absolutely loving the show right now, and I'm not talking about the Netflix series.

https://twitter.com/ZellnerLaw/status/690991204159205377

This is about to get real good.  Zellner isn't laying in wait... she's taking her own troll over to Kratz's bridge.  Definitely worthy of the Benny B Seal-of-Approval.

[wadesworld]

Kratz is an idiot.  But so is Zellner.

[🏀]

I can honestly say that at this point, I really don't care whether Avery is guilty or innocent... I am absolutely loving the show right now, and I'm not talking about the Netflix series.

https://twitter.com/ZellnerLaw/status/690991204159205377

This is about to get real good.  Zellner isn't laying in wait... she's taking her own troll over to Kratz's bridge.  Definitely worthy of the Benny B Seal-of-Approval.

Hilarious. Again, she's going to touch this thing.

[wadesworld]

Hilarious. Again, she's going to touch this thing.

She's certainly trying her best to make you think that.  Some are apparently buying in.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

She's certainly trying her best to make you think that.  Some are apparently buying in.

She has a pretty good track record from what I understand, does she not? 

[wadesworld]

She has a pretty good track record from what I understand, does she not?

Which is exactly why I'm pretty confident she doesn't have a whole lot to go on...yet.

For as moronic as Kratz is, do you really think there are even the lowliest of lawyers out there who would take to Twitter to detail the evidence they say is going to overturn a guilty murder 1 verdict before an appeal has even been heard? That would be beyond belief stupid, and I'm fairly confident that she isn't an idiot.

Not to mention, her doing it pro bono is not even worth mentioning. She is going to caaaaash iiiiinnnn on the publicity she's getting from simply saying, "I'll do my best for you and not even charge you! Look at what a great lawyer and person I am! Only worried about the good of others!" Heck, go to her law firm's website and literally the only thing you can see before you scroll is, "NOW REPRESENTING STEVEN AVERY." Look at her Twitter and it's a picture of her and her partne...wait, no, her and her associa...wait, no, her and Steven Avery. Her Twitter "signature" (I don't do Twitter so I don't know what it's really called) is a play on words from the title "Making a Murderer." She is going to milk the heck out of this thing and make baaaaank regardless of whether she makes a penny or a million dollars from Avery's camp, and she knows it. It's all about the business, it's not about a man who is "identical to the 17 others" because he "won't quit" or admit his guilt. If that's all it takes I'll find you jails and jails and jails full of "identical" men to the 17 men she has worked to get exonerated.

[Jay Bee]

Zellner's "pro bono" work on criminal cases is a feeder to her civil lawsuits that bring in huge amounts of money.

Sounds like a good dead, but is akin to wining and dining potential clients, aina?

I'll tell you one thing for certain, though... Avery is a dirty murderer.

[wadesworld]

Zellner's "pro bono" work on criminal cases is a feeder to her civil lawsuits that bring in huge amounts of money.

Sounds like a good dead, but is akin to wining and dining potential clients, right?

I'll tell you one thing for certain, though... Avery is a dirty murderer.

Exactly.  I agree with all of this, although I do find the conversation and topic interesting to discuss, and there are some things in the case that raise eyebrows.

[Benny B]

Which is exactly why I'm pretty confident she doesn't have a whole lot to go on...yet.

For as moronic as Kratz is, do you really think there are even the lowliest of lawyers out there who would take to Twitter to detail the evidence they say is going to overturn a guilty murder 1 verdict before an appeal has even been heard? That would be beyond belief stupid, and I'm fairly confident that she isn't an idiot.

Not to mention, her doing it pro bono is not even worth mentioning. She is going to caaaaash iiiiinnnn on the publicity she's getting from simply saying, "I'll do my best for you and not even charge you! Look at what a great lawyer and person I am! Only worried about the good of others!" Heck, go to her law firm's website and literally the only thing you can see before you scroll is, "NOW REPRESENTING STEVEN AVERY." Look at her Twitter and it's a picture of her and her partne...wait, no, her and her associa...wait, no, her and Steven Avery. Her Twitter "signature" (I don't do Twitter so I don't know what it's really called) is a play on words from the title "Making a Murderer." She is going to milk the heck out of this thing and make baaaaank regardless of whether she makes a penny or a million dollars from Avery's camp, and she knows it. It's all about the business, it's not about a man who is "identical to the 17 others" because he "won't quit" or admit his guilt. If that's all it takes I'll find you jails and jails and jails full of "identical" men to the 17 men she has worked to get exonerated.

I don't know of a single attorney who does pro bono work because they think it's the right thing to do.  Most only do it because they're forced to do so (in order to keep their license in good standing), but a fair share do it for the promise (or hope) of future earning potential.

Zellner certainly isn't taking Avery's case because she thinks he's innocent... she's taking the case because she thinks she can get him exonerated.  In other words, if she's doing this for the publicity and the money (as we both agree she is), why would she put her reputation on the line?  Doesn't she stand to lose much more here by failing than she ever would succeeding?

[wadesworld]

I don't know of a single attorney who does pro bono work because they think it's the right thing to do.  Most only do it because they're forced to do so (in order to keep their license in good standing), but a fair share do it for the promise (or hope) of future earning potential.

Zellner certainly isn't taking Avery's case because she thinks he's innocent... she's taking the case because she thinks she can get him exonerated.  In other words, if she's doing this for the publicity and the money (as we both agree she is), why would she put her reputation on the line?  Doesn't she stand to lose much more here by failing than she ever would succeeding?

Win or lose this case (which she has to get him a case first anyways) she knows she wins.  Again, look at her website and her Twitter.  She's not putting herself up with a picture of Steven Avery because she knows she's going to win the case.  She's doing it because everyone and their mom is talking about the Netflix series and she now becomes a household name with Steven Avery across America.  It doesn't matter if she never gets Steven Avery another case.  She already has everything she came for, more publicity than she could've ever imagined.  Her reputation is not going to take a hit if Avery never leaves a jail cell.

[🏀]

Win or lose this case (which she has to get him a case first anyways) she knows she wins.  Again, look at her website and her Twitter.  She's not putting herself up with a picture of Steven Avery because she knows she's going to win the case.  She's doing it because everyone and their mom is talking about the Netflix series and she now becomes a household name with Steven Avery across America.  It doesn't matter if she never gets Steven Avery another case.  She already has everything she came for, more publicity than she could've ever imagined.  Her reputation is not going to take a hit if Avery never leaves a jail cell.

Of course she's going to do that, who wouldn't?

It's part of the plan, she's going to continue to massively market this thing. She's been on 20/20 and Dateline over a dozen times, people that follow this genre of entertainment know who Zellner is. Zellner's last case was extremely close to home for me, and this is what she does.

However, I wonder if she may stir up too much in the Manitowoc area. I've been hearing people are already irritated the way social media is trashing their town, the accents, the people and the style. She's just going to bring more to town, it may work against her.

[StillAWarrior]

However, I wonder if she may stir up too much in the Manitowoc area. I've been hearing people are already irritated the way social media is trashing their town, the accents, the people and the style. She's just going to bring more to town, it may work against her.

Honestly, I wonder whether that will matter at all.  Her first step with Avery will try to convince someone that there is new evidence that should be considered.  I think all his "regular" appeals have been exhausted.  This will be done through briefs, and should not be influenced by Manitowoc prejudice.  Then, if she does manage to get a new trial, I would expect that the absolute first thing she will do is seek a new venue.  I'd be very surprised if anyone from Manitowoc ever has anything to do with this case again -- aside from witnesses who are called to testify.

[🏀]

Honestly, I wonder whether that will matter at all.  Her first step with Avery will try to convince someone that there is new evidence that should be considered.  I think all his "regular" appeals have been exhausted.  This will be done through briefs, and should not be influenced by Manitowoc prejudice.  Then, if she does manage to get a new trial, I would expect that the absolute first thing she will do is seek a new venue.  I'd be very surprised if anyone from Manitowoc ever has anything to do with this case again -- aside from witnesses who are called to testify.

True, she will try to get it moved to Milwaukee.

[wadesworld]

Of course she's going to do that, who wouldn't?

It's part of the plan, she's going to continue to massively market this thing. She's been on 20/20 and Dateline over a dozen times, people that follow this genre of entertainment know who Zellner is. Zellner's last case was extremely close to home for me, and this is what she does.

However, I wonder if she may stir up too much in the Manitowoc area. I've been hearing people are already irritated the way social media is trashing their town, the accents, the people and the style. She's just going to bring more to town, it may work against her.

That's why I think what she's doing in terms of the social media stuff is pretty dumb. Everyone is already all over this. The country is baffled at how Avery could possibly be found guilty because of the Netflix documentary they just watched. She doesn't need to convince people. Just sit back and watch this all blow up on the prosecution like it already was, and make your case for Avery.

[🏀]

That's why I think what she's doing in terms of the social media stuff is pretty dumb. Everyone is already all over this. The country is baffled at how Avery could possibly be found guilty because of the Netflix documentary they just watched. She doesn't need to convince people. Just sit back and watch this all blow up on the prosecution like it already was, and make your case for Avery.

Agree, especially because of the social media aspect. If there's a demographic being missed, it's not those on Twitter.

[keefe]

https://www.facebook.com/BethInShow/videos/986899561332468/

[Jay Bee]

I don't know of a single attorney who does pro bono work because they think it's the right thing to do.  Most only do it because they're forced to do so (in order to keep their license in good standing), but a fair share do it for the promise (or hope) of future earning potential.

I know attorneys who do pro bono work because they think it's the right thing to do. Many do.

[wadesworld]

https://www.facebook.com/BethInShow/videos/986899561332468/

Holy hell her impersonation of Barb is spot on!

She's actually from Manitowoc?  There are very few women in Milwaukee who are that good looking, let alone Manitowoc.

[Benny B]

I know attorneys who do pro bono work because they think it's the right thing to do. Many do.

I should clarify... no private attorney I know takes a case pro bono because they think it's the right thing to do. 

Do these attorneys that you know work for the NRDC, PETA, or some other non-profit/NGO?  Because I know these folks tend to call what they're doing "pro bono" because they're working for a non-profit (and/or being paid a fraction of what the average attorney makes), but a) they're still getting paid a salary or - at the very least - a stipend, and b) they're calling it "pro bono" so they can weasel out of doing real pro bono work to meet licensing requirements.

The implication I'm making is that a high powered attorney who has made millions - like Zellner - doesn't take a case like Steven Avery's strictly for altruistic purposes.

[keefe]

Holy hell her impersonation of Barb is spot on!

She's actually from Manitowoc?  There are very few women in Milwaukee who are that good looking, let alone Manitowoc.

She is from Manitowac. I have known about her through the Michigan alumni network which ran a piece on her comedy routines. When I first heard her speak I knew immediately she was a cheesehead. She is really quite clever and does some great impersonations.

[Jay Bee]

I should clarify... no private attorney I know takes a case pro bono because they think it's the right thing to do. 

Do these attorneys that you know work for the NRDC, PETA, or some other non-profit/NGO?  Because I know these folks tend to call what they're doing "pro bono" because they're working for a non-profit (and/or being paid a fraction of what the average attorney makes), but a) they're still getting paid a salary or - at the very least - a stipend, and b) they're calling it "pro bono" so they can weasel out of doing real pro bono work to meet licensing requirements.

The implication I'm making is that a high powered attorney who has made millions - like Zellner - doesn't take a case like Steven Avery's strictly for altruistic purposes.

I agree on Zellner and many others; however, I do many attorneys of different types - many criminal defense attorneys, who do free work because they feel it's a nice thing to do.

I think most of what anyone does has a selfish tint to it -- even those who volunteer at a soup kitchen are likely doing it because doing so pleases THEM in some way.. nonetheless, they are doing it because they want to help others.. and many attorneys do this.

[Sir Lawrence]

I should clarify... no private attorney I know takes a case pro bono because they think it's the right thing to do. 

As JayBee indicated, I too get what you are saying about Zellner.  But you must not know many honorable private attorneys.  There is no pro bono requirement in Wisconsin, although it is encouraged.  Yet every attorney in my private practice does pro bono work of some nature, and does so with zero publicity or fanfare.  It could be as simple as giving their parish administration an opinion on an employment issue, or as complicated as representing the victim of a underage sexual assault by a high school coach, all gratis, all done very quietly, and sometimes at a financial loss for the law firm.   

[Sir Lawrence]

Looks like Strang and Buting are trying to cash in on the fanfare:

http://pabsttheater.org/show/strangbuting

 

[StillAWarrior]

As JayBee indicated, I too get what you are saying about Zellner.  But you must not know many honorable private attorneys.  There is no pro bono requirement in Wisconsin, although it is encouraged.  Yet every attorney in my private practice does pro bono work of some nature, and does so with zero publicity or fanfare.  It could be as simple as giving their parish administration an opinion on an employment issue, or as complicated as representing the victim of a underage sexual assault by a high school coach, all gratis, all done very quietly, and sometimes at a financial loss for the law firm.   

I'll add the same for Ohio.  Many do nothing.  Many do a lot.  Some (e.g., Zellner) shout it from the rooftops and clearly intend to use it to develop their paying clients.  Others do it in a very quiet and humble way, with a real commitment to service.

[keefe]

Looks like Strang and Buting are trying to cash in on the fanfare:

http://pabsttheater.org/show/strangbuting

 

Well, hell, if they were really good lawyers they would be charging at least $500 an hour and not $45.50!