Making a murder

[reinko]

To be fair, everyone from Manitowoc seems odd in that doc.

Yeah?

OMG, those phone calls between Dassey and his mom.

Hello?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Ya see the news?
Yeah.
Well.
Yeah, ya know.
Yeah.

[GGGG]

I don't know if this was mentioned in this thread but...

http://www.packers.com/team/staff/Mike-Halbach/bc32b029-52e7-4e07-b172-f9580ded39f3

[Coleman]

To be fair, everyone from Manitowoc seems odd in that doc.

Yeah?

I grew up in a community not that unlike Manitowoc in northeast Wisconsin. While everyone might seem weird to someone from Chicago or Milwaukee, there is still very much a social hierarchy with insiders and outsiders and people who are respected members of the community and those on the fringes. The Averys were very much on the fringes, whether or not everyone else in Manitowoc is "odd" by our standards.

[Coleman]

I don't know if this was mentioned in this thread but...

http://www.packers.com/team/staff/Mike-Halbach/bc32b029-52e7-4e07-b172-f9580ded39f3

Unless that's an old pic, the dude hasn't aged in 10 years.

[🏀]

Gonna step this one back.

[wadesworld]

Gonna step this one back.

Huh?

[warriorchick]

To be fair, everyone from Manitowoc seems odd in that doc.

Yeah?

And that's really a shame.  We know tons of folks from Manty (MU grads and their friends), and they are, to a person, smart, wonderful people.  But yeah, a lot of them still have that accent.

Anyone on this board been to Hammerfest, or remember the the Jagoff Blues Brothers band, the Blues Brothers tribute band that occasionally played in The Grill in the early '80's?  Those guys are all from Manitowoc.

[🏀]

Huh?

Had a poor taste joke in there.

[Archies Bat]

And that's really a shame.  We know tons of folks from Manty (MU grads and their friends), and they are, to a person, smart, wonderful people.  But yeah, a lot of them still have that accent.

Anyone on this board been to Hammerfest, or remember the the Jagoff Blues Brothers band, the Blues Brothers tribute band that occasionally played in The Grill in the early '80's?  Those guys are all from Manitowoc.

I did go to Hammerfest and did know several band members.  It was a good time.

[keefe]

And that's really a shame.  We know tons of folks from Manty (MU grads and their friends), and they are, to a person, smart, wonderful people.  But yeah, a lot of them still have that accent.

Everyone from WI has that accent.

When my wife came to visit me at Vance AFB in OK the guys in my class all thought she was from Canada.

[jsglow]

I did go to Hammerfest and did know several band members.  It was a good time.

In Manty or later when we moved it to MKE? HF ran for something like 23 consecutive years.

[Archies Bat]

In Manty or later when we moved it to MKE? HF ran for something like 23 consecutive years.

In Manty, I believe 1984.  It was after I graduated, and was visiting my parents in MKE and took a ride up.

[wadesworld]

http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/dna-specialist-testifies-in-avery-trial-b99643012z1-363819601.html

Looking at this it looks like the excused juror was excused before the trial even ended.  So he didn't even have all of the evidence to form his opinion.  And he wouldn't have been in deliberations.  So where did the defense attorneys get that the original vote was 7 to 3 to 2 when they were meeting with the Averys after the trial?  They wouldn't be allowed to talk with the jurors...

[Sir Lawrence]

Wades, not certain about that--I'm only familiar with civil juries, but we frequently contact jurors AFTER the verdict.  They are released from their oath. 

No obligation to talk to anyone, but no prohibition either. 

And as to the initial vote, it is of no importance.  Wild swings happen often with jury votes.

[wadesworld]

Wades, not certain about that--I'm only familiar with civil juries, but we frequently contact jurors AFTER the verdict.  They are released from their oath. 

No obligation to talk to anyone, but no prohibition either. 

And as to the initial vote, it is of no importance.  Wild swings happen often with jury votes.

Gotcha.  Interesting.  I've (for obvious reasons) never sat on a jury, but have gone through the questioning phase of it, and I just know that the judge makes it a point to let you know that if anyone involved in the case approaches you you need to contact the judge or whatever.  I would've thought it would not be okay for lawyers to talk with jurors even after the case is over.

I do agree that the initial vote is of no importance, as that is what deliberations are for.  In a case like this you aren't going to have 12 people all immediately agree on guilt, so discussions occur.

[wadesworld]

http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/reporter-tom-kertscher-tweets-reactions-while-watching-steven-avery-series-making-a-murderer-b996460-364227561.html

Most of these Tweets in the link mirror my thoughts.

[Coleman]

Wades, not certain about that--I'm only familiar with civil juries, but we frequently contact jurors AFTER the verdict.  They are released from their oath. 

No obligation to talk to anyone, but no prohibition either. 

And as to the initial vote, it is of no importance.  Wild swings happen often with jury votes.

That has been my experience as well, serving on a jury that actually went to trial.

[Coleman]

http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/dna-specialist-testifies-in-avery-trial-b99643012z1-363819601.html

Looking at this it looks like the excused juror was excused before the trial even ended.  So he didn't even have all of the evidence to form his opinion.  And he wouldn't have been in deliberations.  So where did the defense attorneys get that the original vote was 7 to 3 to 2 when they were meeting with the Averys after the trial?  They wouldn't be allowed to talk with the jurors...

That excused juror was clearly not the same juror who was excused once deliberations started. The article said it was a 69 year old retiree. The guy in the documentary who was excused after deliberations had started was clearly in his 30s or mid 40s, at the oldest.

It does not surprise me that there was more than one excusal in a trial this long. If you read the JS article you linked, it appears there was a larger pool of jurors than 12, and then 12 were picked randomly for deliberations, and there were alternates ready who witnessed the trial for this very reason.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Everyone from WI has that accent.

When my wife came to visit me at Vance AFB in OK the guys in my class all thought she was from Canada.

Coming from Connecticut, I always thought the Wisconsin accent was Canada-lite. 

[mu03eng]

Coming from Connecticut, I always thought the Wisconsin accent was Canada-lite.

Depends on what part of Wisconsin you're talking about. Anything north of Madison or Cudahy, yes. Southwestern Wisconsin is some sort of derived hillbilly speak.


Amazing to me was when I moved to the Chicago area in high school and had to take a field trip to deep sourthern Illinois. I thought I had transwarped to the woody part of Georgia their southern drawl was so prominent. No idea how that happens.

[CTWarrior]

Coming from Connecticut, I always thought the Wisconsin accent was Canada-lite.

I forgot where I heard it, but our part of CT (where Fairfield and New Haven counties meet) is supposed to be one of only a very few places in the US without a discernable accent.

[Spotcheck Billy]

I forgot where I heard it, but our part of CT (where Fairfield and New Haven counties meet) is supposed to be one of only a very few places in the US without a discernable accent.

in your part of CT would be my bet because just about everyone thinks they have no accent 

[warriorchick]

I forgot where I heard it, but our part of CT (where Fairfield and New Haven counties meet) is supposed to be one of only a very few places in the US without a discernable accent.

I had always assumed that everyone in Connecticut sounded like the guy in the Pepperidge Fahm commercials.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

I forgot where I heard it, but our part of CT (where Fairfield and New Haven counties meet) is supposed to be one of only a very few places in the US without a discernable accent.

There is no accent in CT until you here someone pronounce New Britain.

[wadesworld]

That excused juror was clearly not the same juror who was excused once deliberations started. The article said it was a 69 year old retiree. The guy in the documentary who was excused after deliberations had started was clearly in his 30s or mid 40s, at the oldest.

It does not surprise me that there was more than one excusal in a trial this long. If you read the JS article you linked, it appears there was a larger pool of jurors than 12, and then 12 were picked randomly for deliberations, and there were alternates ready who witnessed the trial for this very reason.

Yup you're right, good call.