737 Max

[DegenerateDish]

I had to step in and agree that Channel 5 news (for a long time, even before the media has been scrutinized to the degree it is today) is far and away the worst. I remember probably 7-10 years ago, noticing with them that every single story was "Breaking News". Even if there was a house fire from the night before, the next night it was still "breaking". It's comical how bad that show is. This isn't even a political thing, it's just flat out produced horribly.

[Benny B]

That's great.  What's the boneyard airport code?

As always, TPG has it covered...

https://thepointsguy.com/2017/04/guide-to-aircraft-boneyards/

Okay, this is weird.  I just did a search on Flightaware and there's Max-8s in the air.  Could this be a mislabeling thing?

Deadheading maybe?  The grounding order allows exceptions for non-passenger transport (otherwise, how will they get them to the maintenance hangars for any software updates, additional hardware, inspections, etc.)

EDIT: I just checked FlightAware, and those are not deadheads.  No idea what's going on... best I can fathom is that these were flights originally scheduled with the Max but metal was changed after the flight plan was filed.

I can't speak for the other airlines, but I just learned that AAL's re-positioning flights are numbered in the 9000's.  So at least the three Max 8's AAL has in the air are all 9000's (i.e. they are being deadheaded).  Also learned that AAL's primary maintenance facilities are Tulsa and Melbourne, which happens to be where 2 of those 3 are going.

[jsglow]

As always, TPG has it covered...

https://thepointsguy.com/2017/04/guide-to-aircraft-boneyards/

Deadheading maybe?  The grounding order allows exceptions for non-passenger transport (otherwise, how will they get them to the maintenance hangars for any software updates, additional hardware, inspections, etc.)

EDIT: I just checked FlightAware, and those are not deadheads.  No idea what's going on... best I can fathom is that these were flights originally scheduled with the Max but metal was changed after the flight plan was filed.

Yeah, they were real flights for sure.  Had to be metal changing without the designation being updated.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Brother Glow, do you believe that any "news" show anchored by Allison Rosati is "news?"

Channel 5 news is sensationalism to the max. On any given night, a 13-15 minute news hole will have 10-12 minutes of "public safety" news -- shootings, fires, traffic accidents, weather problems etc. To get viewers, they need attractive people sensationalizing to the extreme. The remaining news will be some type of "soft" story about cute puppies, sad babies etc.

Look at their field reporters. Do any of them have any intellectual capability whatsoever to explain to Chicago and the Midwest what's happening with the 737 Max? The only thing any of them seem to know how to do is stick a microphone in someone's face and ask, "how does it feel?"

Under these circumstances, of course they're going to get it wrong.

No all local news is bad, some is just funny.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/btAbU1sPqIM" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

(Somebody embed this ish.)

[rocket surgeon]

  i heard someone tried to light one up and the smoke alarms malfunctioned

[Cheeks]

Son is heading back to MKE on SWA on Sunday, but SWA sent us an email today that flight unlikely to be canceled.

I’m also a airplane geek like Glow, but no expert...just dig planes.  I used to listen to air traffic control a lot when I lived by LAX and could see the planes coming in.  Friends with a Globemaster 3 pilot and I have some amazing videos of them doing flyovers.  Flightradar24 sub for years.

Been on everything from a Tr Star L1011, Ford Trimotor (stopped production in early 30’s), DC3, DC8, DC10, 707 and every Boeing plane since except 787, Cessnas, Gulfstreams, piper cub, every Airbus except the 380, Bombadiers, MD80, Embraers, ATR, even a Hawker.

[Cheeks]

No all local news is bad, some is just funny.

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(Somebody embed this ish.)

Here you go

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/IvE84AGMWpE" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/IvE84AGMWpE</a>

[dgies9156]

No all local news is bad, some is just funny.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/btAbU1sPqIM" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

(Somebody embed this ish.)

I hope he won!

[MU82]

John Oliver has a fairly regular bit on some of the dopey, crazy, idiotic, hilarious stuff that goes on during local newscasts. Always one of the funniest things on that week's episode when he does it.

[mu03eng]

John Oliver has a fairly regular bit on some of the dopey, crazy, idiotic, hilarious stuff that goes on during local newscasts. Always one of the funniest things on that week's episode when he does it.

Way OT, but John Oliver has to be the best of the Johnny Carson "clones" in the industry right now. Yes he has it easier than say a Jimmy Kimmel in that he is producing one show a week and only about 30 a year total, but he is consistently funny while being educational. Even if you don't take his view point he's funny about it and it makes you think without being a jerk about. Especially love his vendetta's against Brexit and the FCC.

[Cheeks]

Way OT, but John Oliver has to be the best of the Johnny Carson "clones" in the industry right now. Yes he has it easier than say a Jimmy Kimmel in that he is producing one show a week and only about 30 a year total, but he is consistently funny while being educational. Even if you don't take his view point he's funny about it and it makes you think without being a jerk about. Especially love his vendetta's against Brexit and the FCC.

All of them do politics and Johnny Carson was the best of staying away from it.  Turning off many viewers in my opinion.


On the 737 Max, new evidence found.  Jackscrew position indicates the jet was in nose down "dive" setting.  https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/piece-found-at-ethiopian-airlines-crash-site-shows-jet-was-set-to-dive-2008100

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

All of them do politics and Johnny Carson was the best of staying away from it.  Turning off many viewers in my opinion.

Colbert zoomed up the ratings when he got overtly political.

[MU82]

Bordering on political discussion, chicos. Nobody here mentioned politics in regards to talk-show hosts. You went out of your way to bring it up.

Meanwhile, back to the subject of Boeing ... this just in ...

Boeing (BA) shares spike higher to turn positive following reports that the company could roll out a software upgrade for its 737 MAX 8 jets in 10 days.

The report from Agence France-Presse comes after all 737 MAX jets were grounded following two fatal crashes; Boeing shares had slumped more than 10% as a result.

A Boeing spokesperson denies the AFP report, saying the software upgrade timeline has not changed and that it will be rolled out "in coming weeks."

Boeing is up 2.3% today as I write this. Much closer to its all-time high than the low it hit on Xmas Eve, a low that was due to nothing more than worldwide macroeconomic conditions.

Very well-regarded company on Wall Street.

[Cheeks]

Didn’t realize a video of Carson saying he stayed away from politics because he was an entertainer was a problem, but I guess the Colbert post is ok.

[Cheeks]

Bordering on political discussion, chicos. Nobody here mentioned politics in regards to talk-show hosts. You went out of your way to bring it up.

Meanwhile, back to the subject of Boeing ... this just in ...

Boeing (BA) shares spike higher to turn positive following reports that the company could roll out a software upgrade for its 737 MAX 8 jets in 10 days.

The report from Agence France-Presse comes after all 737 MAX jets were grounded following two fatal crashes; Boeing shares had slumped more than 10% as a result.

A Boeing spokesperson denies the AFP report, saying the software upgrade timeline has not changed and that it will be rolled out "in coming weeks."

Boeing is up 2.3% today as I write this. Much closer to its all-time high than the low it hit on Xmas Eve, a low that was due to nothing more than worldwide macroeconomic conditions.

Very well-regarded company on Wall Street.

Really? Brexit isn’t political and the discussion was about Oliver and late night topics which absolutely have differed than Carson...which was also brought up....I think I stayed in the same lanes as others.

[dgies9156]

The early model 727-100s also had their share of serious accident problems due to pilot unfamiliarity with a new model aircraft. In August 1965, a United 727 crashed into Lake Michigan on approach to O’Hare. On November 8, 1965, an American 727 crashed on approach to Cincinnati and three days later, a United 727 crashed on approach to Salt Lake City. A few months later, yet another 727, an All Nippon flight, crashed into the sea on approach to Tokyo.

Each was a controlled flight into terrain ("CFIT"). However, the FAA found the accidents’ common thread was high-speed approaches in excess of the maximum allowed. It was later suggested the reason was the “T” tail design, of which the 727 was the first to fly.

What happened: no grounding. The FAA and NASA reviewed the designs of the 727 and determined it to be airworthy and properly certified. What happened next was interesting. The FAA convened a meeting of 727 operators and went over operations and training. The airlines made modifications to training and flight manuals and the rest, shall we say, was history.

The short answer is like in 1965 and 1966, we had tragedy with a new airplane that was different from what pilots were used to flying. There was a right way to fly these planes and when they were flown correctly, CFIT generally was and is not a problem. You can say there is a design error all you want, but if the Max is flown correctly, the software problem should not be an issue.

Some of the specifics of this story came from https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=5e7f072b-c5e7-42f8-9b15-1a2e94781766.

[Cheeks]

I bought small amount on Wednesday.  It is a good company over the long haul, though I do worry about the Chinese entrants especially with Boeing now having their own planes built in China.  Nothing like teaching others how to slowly kill off our most important industries.

[mu03eng]

I bought small amount on Wednesday.  It is a good company over the long haul, though I do worry about the Chinese entrants especially with Boeing now having their own planes built in China.  Nothing like teaching others how to slowly kill off our most important industries.

Eh, building the metal and writing the code/designing the metal are two VERY different things. No doubt there is IP that can be lost on the build side but it doesn't matter if you don't have the code and/or design

[Galway Eagle]

Really? Brexit isn’t political and the discussion was about Oliver and late night topics which absolutely have differed than Carson...which was also brought up....I think I stayed in the same lanes as others.

Brexit not political? Chicos... come on

[Cheeks]

Eh, building the metal and writing the code/designing the metal are two VERY different things. No doubt there is IP that can be lost on the build side but it doesn't matter if you don't have the code and/or design

Masters of reverse engineering.  We have been burned too often in the past, but we continue to make the same mistakes.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Didn’t realize a video of Carson saying he stayed away from politics because he was an entertainer was a problem, but I guess the Colbert post is ok.

Different era. Politicalization draws now.

[jsglow]

Guys.  This topic actually interests me and several have contributed thoughtfully.  Your political discussion doesn't.  Start your own thread.

[D'Lo Brown]

I'm honestly surprised by the optimism about buying into Boeing (stock) at this specific time. It's mostly just buying into the headlines being wrong and, basically, contrarianism. There will be more buying opportunities as this rolls along. It wasn't even that great of a buying opportunity following the dip. It is fairly priced, assuming that they lose no business. If you weren't already bought into it, what in the world would make one buy into it now?

The issues facing Boeing are not purely dollar signs any more, this is now opened up to a large, international political issue as well. I'd rather not invest in a stock where I also have to consider the political headlines and other nebulous factors. How does one go about projecting that stuff out...?

[jsglow]

So I didn't know until this week that the Chinese were making a plane intended to compete.  Mark me down as a NO.

[Cheeks]

So I didn't know until this week that the Chinese were making a plane intended to compete.  Mark me down as a NO.

Yup

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-03-14/boeing-737-max-8-troubles-could-help-china-s-comac-c919