The Gold?

[4everwarriors]

How about Kemosabe?

Or Bro?

[denverMU]

Poor analogy on a number of levels

Enlighten me, on what levels? Two ethnic groups, Spartans and Indians, that sports teams see have positive attributes, so they name their teams after them.

[GGGG]

Seriously, it amazes me that someone who uses the term Sultan as part of there name, clearly offensive too all Muslims,

Someone needs a dictionary.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Don't you realize most Native Americans don't agree with you?

You do realize that you found three studies, at least one of which was sponsored by Sports Illustrated. I don't agree with you but I know you are smart enough to know that these don't prove that most native americans are okay with white people referring to them as redskins.

[GGGG]

Enlighten me, on what levels? Two ethnic groups, Spartans and Indians, that sports teams see have positive attributes, so they name their teams after them.

Spartans weren't an "ethnic group."  Sparta was a city you know.  It's like "Chicagoan."

[ATL MU Warrior]

As a Caucasion, I'm not sure I like being called paleface, whitey or honky either....

how do you feel about gringo?

[ChicosBailBonds]

You do realize that you found three studies, at least one of which was sponsored by Sports Illustrated. I don't agree with you but I know you are smart enough to know that these don't prove that most native americans are okay with white people referring to them as redskins.

One was from the University of Pennsylvania's Annenburg Institute, and that one was also scientific and confirmed the same results.  I've yet to find a poll that is a scientific poll that says anything counter to that.  Pakuni's poll he cited was not scientific. 

I guess I don't understand why it matters if SI sponsored it.  Are they anti Native American?  Did they not hire a third party to do the poll (unlike the one Pakuni cited?)

[denverMU]

Someone needs a dictionary.

ˈsəltn/
noun
1.
a Muslim sovereign.
; noun: the Sultan

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Enlighten me, on what levels? Two ethnic groups, Spartans and Indians, that sports teams see have positive attributes, so they name their teams after them.

1. Indians isn't the proper name
2. Spartan isn't an ethnicity
3. Even if it was, it's a dead civilization
4. Spartans are Europeans which is who most white Americans are descended from. Since we share ancestors, we have more legitimacy to use it as a mascot
5. To my knowledge the Michigan State Spartan has never been displayed as a bucktoothed, red skinned, racist effigy
6. Michigan state does not use sacred Spartan traditions as sideshow attractions at sporting events

Those were the six I came up with in two minutes. I can probably come up with some more if you want

[keefe]

As a Caucasion, I'm not sure I like being called paleface, whitey or honky either....

Anyone who has lived in Asia has heard Gwei Lo, Bak Guiy, Gaijin, Bule, Farang, Ang Mo, Bok See Dah, Lao Wai, Puting Tao, Bai Tau, Chite, Henna Gaijin, Dholia, Chow Yan Kwi Ze, and Gubba.

[Nukem2]

Anyone who has lived in Asia has heard Gwei Lo, Bak Guiy, Gaijin, Bule, Farang, Ang Mo, Bok See Dah, Lao Wai, Puting Tao, Bai Tau, Chite, Henna Gaijin, Dholia, Chow Yan Kwi Ze, and Gubba.

Or, Keefe....     

[GGGG]

ˈsəltn/
noun
1.
a Muslim sovereign.
; noun: the Sultan

Congrats!  Now tell me how that would be relevant?

Hint: If we were debating the Sacramento Kings nickname it might be...but we aren't.

[GGGG]

1. Indians isn't the proper name
2. Spartan isn't an ethnicity
3. Even if it was, it's a dead civilization
4. Spartans are Europeans which is who most white Americans are descended from. Since we share ancestors, we have more legitimacy to use it as a mascot
5. To my knowledge the Michigan State Spartan has never been displayed as a bucktoothed, red skinned, racist effigy
6. Michigan state does not use sacred Spartan traditions as sideshow attractions at sporting events

Those were the six I came up with in two minutes. I can probably come up with some more if you want

Game.
Set.
Match.

[keefe]

Or, Keefe....     

You must be mistaking me for a white dude...

[denverMU]

Spartans weren't an "ethnic group."  Sparta was a city you know.  It's like "Chicagoan."

eth·nic·i·ty
eTHˈnisitē/
noun
1.
the fact or state of belonging to a social group that has a common national or cultural tradition.

"Sparta was unique in Ancient Greece for its social system and constitution which completely focused on military training and excellence."

Sparta was a city state that had a common national and cultural tradition.

[GGGG]

eth·nic·i·ty
eTHˈnisitē/
noun
1.
the fact or state of belonging to a social group that has a common national or cultural tradition.

"Sparta was unique in Ancient Greece for its social system and constitution which completely focused on military training and excellence."

Sparta was a city state that had a common national and cultural tradition.

They were Greek.  Being focused on military training doesn't make them a separate ethnic group.

Nice try though.

[MU82]

eth·nic·i·ty
eTHˈnisitē/
noun
1.
the fact or state of belonging to a social group that has a common national or cultural tradition.

"Sparta was unique in Ancient Greece for its social system and constitution which completely focused on military training and excellence."

Sparta was a city state that had a common national and cultural tradition.

If you really think Spartans is as offensive as Redskins, what's the use of even trying to have a discussion?

It's like saying flies are the same as dogs, so anybody who kills a fly, it's as bad as killing a dog.

[4everwarriors]

Michael Vick, is that you?

[Lennys Tap]

One was from the University of Pennsylvania's Annenburg Institute, and that one was also scientific and confirmed the same results.  I've yet to find a poll that is a scientific poll that says anything counter to that.  Pakuni's poll he cited was not scientific. 

I guess I don't understand why it matters if SI sponsored it.  Are they anti Native American?  Did they not hire a third party to do the poll (unlike the one Pakuni cited?)

Rather than a poll, go to a bar owned, operated and catering to Native Americans. Start with the bartender - "Hey, redskin, how about a beer?" If that doesn't get the sh$t beaten out of you, continue referring to the patrons that way until it does. We'll see what percentage cheer your attacker on and what percentage says "Wait, don't you know that redskin is a term that honors us?". My guess is you'll be disappointed with the outcome on "multiple" levels.

[denverMU]

1. Indians isn't the proper name
2. Spartan isn't an ethnicity
3. Even if it was, it's a dead civilization
4. Spartans are Europeans which is who most white Americans are descended from. Since we share ancestors, we have more legitimacy to use it as a mascot
5. To my knowledge the Michigan State Spartan has never been displayed as a bucktoothed, red skinned, racist effigy
6. Michigan state does not use sacred Spartan traditions as sideshow attractions at sporting events

Those were the six I came up with in two minutes. I can probably come up with some more if you want

1. American Indian....excuse me
2. As I just showed Spartans is an ethnicity.
3. What does this matter, there are still people who still relate back to that history or are you saying that if we had wiped out the entire "American Indian" population it would be ok for MU to use Warrior?
4. This makes no sense.  What you seem to be saying is it is ok to use a derogatory term (your assertion not mine) if somehow you are part of the group.  So a football team on an Indian reservation could call themselves the Warriors?  Org rambling could call themselves The Ni@@ers?
5. When I attended MU the mascot was an Native American Indian who was dressed in traditional American Indian clothes and performed traditional American Indian dances and was awarded a full scholarship for his troubles.
6. See #5

Try coming up with some more, that are accurate.  While you are at it, try to explain to me how a name of a team, obviously, meant to be positive because you do not name your something negative that you hate, is offensive.

[denverMU]

If you really think Spartans is as offensive as Redskins, what's the use of even trying to have a discussion?

It's like saying flies are the same as dogs, so anybody who kills a fly, it's as bad as killing a dog.

This thread is titled "the Gold" my main issue is the Marquette Warriors.

[keefe]

They were Greek.  Being focused on military training doesn't make them a separate ethnic group.

If you genuinely believe that ancient Greece had a defined sense of nationhood then you really do not understand the socio-political milieu.

[denverMU]

They were Greek.  Being focused on military training doesn't make them a separate ethnic group.

Nice try though.

The Spartans were a social group that had common cultural traditions.  Just because you say so or disagree does not make something so.  Nice try though.

[real chili 83]

There's so much arrogance and ignorance in this statement. I don't even know where to begin. All I'll say now is "Two wrongs don't make a right?"

Bury My heart at Wounded  knee is a compelling book.

Let's not forget that the Iriquous nearly exterminated the Erie in a most brutal fashion.  The Chippewa and the Sioux were mortal enemies.  It wasn't that long ago.

[Eldon]

If you genuinely believe that ancient Greece had a defined sense of nationhood then you really do not understand the socio-political milieu.

It's my understanding that Italy didn't even have a true sense of nationhood until around WWII.  To this day there are people in Sicily as well as outer parts of the countryside who still do not speak Italian (Tuscan)