We Might Look Back...

[4everwarriors]

to Cassius Winston's choice of MSU over MU as the point that defines Wojo's MU coaching resume. Similar to Majerus' loss of Ricky Olson and Joe Wolf. Rick could never get over the hump at MU. History may repeat, aina?

[Silent Verbal]

Winston and Tillman and Mannion and Grimes were never coming here.  Wojo may have come in “second” on those guys, but that doesn’t mean anything in recruiting.

[Its DJOver]

Could you not say the same thing about Hagans, Nico, Grimes or Carton?  Wojo has gotten close to landing some very high quality PGs.  Close means nothing when it come to recruiting other than to give you hope that you can get it done on the recruiting trail soon.  Getting as close as he did to landing those top players gives me hope that Wojo can land some of the premier 2020 talent out there.  Others may view it differently.  To each their own.

[4everwarriors]

Winston has become an excellent point guard, somethin' Wojo hasn't been able to reel in. MSU doesn't win yesterday without him, hey?

[Silent Verbal]

Could you not say the same thing about Hagans, Nico, Grimes or Carton?  Wojo has gotten close to landing some very high quality PGs.  Close means nothing when it come to recruiting other than to give you hope that you can get it done on the recruiting trail soon.  Getting as close as he did to landing those top players gives me hope that Wojo can land some of the premier 2020 talent out there.  Others may view it differently.  To each their own.

We were never close on Hagans.  Wojo and Stan flew down to Georgia to meet with him and were treated like a couple of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

[Its DJOver]

We were never close on Hagans.  Wojo and Stan flew down to Georgia to meet with him and were treated like a couple of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

The point is that with recruiting being "hit or miss" the way it is, there will be an infinite number of "what if's" out there, even among the HOFers.  Izzo offered a total of 7 guards for the 2017 class (per 247), all 7 chose to attend school elsewhere, including a 6'-3" shooting guard that choose to go to some school in Milwaukee.  Not comparing Greg to Cassius in any way other than the offer from MSU, but worth reminding people that even the great coaches miss on the recruiting trail. 

Finishing second (or top 5) for these guys hurts, but I see it as a "when" not "if" Wojo lands a top tier PG.

https://247sports.com/college/michigan-state/Season/2017-Basketball/Offers/

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Wojo has clearly done better on the recruiting trail than Rick.  He has also had better results.  But Marquette was a much different place back then.

[Silkk the Shaka]

Cassius, Harper, Mooney, Jerome

Junior, junior, 5th year senior, junior

Need Symir to get to that level as an upperclassman. Would really like to see us build a roster around a probing/distributor type PG that can score. He seems to have the lead guard makeup (posted several triple doubles) and has the athleticism/length for a ceiling that high

[MU82]

Wojo has landed several players that bluebloods and near-bluebloods very much wanted. He has recruited well enough to average 21 wins over the last 4 years, to get us into the postseason the last 3 years and to make us legit contenders for our conference title.

That equals "good" IMHO, but it means he still has to recruit even better to get us where we all (including Wojo) want us to be. And I think he will.

And as others have already stated, Torrence is a 4-star PG whom Virginia, Syracuse and Maryland (among others) offered.

But sure, he's swung and missed, too. Name a coach who hasn't, especially a coach at a non-blueblood.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Winston and Tillman and Mannion and Grimes were never coming here.  Wojo may have come in “second” on those guys, but that doesn’t mean anything in recruiting.

I agree a really silly OP. Winston was dyed in the wool MSU from day one.  I guess he was wirth a try from Wojo, but it seems other schools knew better and layed off Winston.  So maybe we came in second by default?

[Silent Verbal]

The point is that with recruiting being "hit or miss" the way it is, there will be an infinite number of "what if's" out there, even among the HOFers.  Izzo offered a total of 7 guards for the 2017 class (per 247), all 7 chose to attend school elsewhere, including a 6'-3" shooting guard that choose to go to some school in Milwaukee.  Not comparing Greg to Cassius in any way other than the offer from MSU, but worth reminding people that even the great coaches miss on the recruiting trail. 

Finishing second (or top 5) for these guys hurts, but I see it as a "when" not "if" Wojo lands a top tier PG.

https://247sports.com/college/michigan-state/Season/2017-Basketball/Offers/

How solid was Greg’s MSU offer?  Was it one of those “wait and see” deals where he’d get the scholly if other guys turned it down?  I don’t know much about the inside details of recruiting, but I’ve heard that not all scholarship offers are created equal.  I have a hard time believing that MSU was seriously targeting Greg, who’s a nice player but not “Izzo’s living in his high school gym” nice.

But hey, people have actually said on here that Traci Carter was a recruiting “miss” for Jay Wright, so who knows.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Only real take i have from this thread isthat in 5+ years Wojo has failed to land a high major PG. Im in Wojos camp but that is pathetic and it has been a major thirn in our side in each season

[MUfan12]

to Cassius Winston's choice of MSU over MU as the point that defines Wojo's MU coaching resume.

I was thinking about that this weekend. How much different does this team look with a capable PG instead of Howard?

Also, while Theo improved, Tillman is so much better it's not even funny.

[PGsHeroes32]

Could you not say the same thing about Hagans, Nico, Grimes or Carton?  Wojo has gotten close to landing some very high quality PGs.  Close means nothing when it come to recruiting other than to give you hope that you can get it done on the recruiting trail soon.  Getting as close as he did to landing those top players gives me hope that Wojo can land some of the premier 2020 talent out there.  Others may view it differently.  To each their own.

Hagans lol

If that guy melted down surrounded by 5 stars. I think he woulda melted down trying to throw the ball to Theo John.

But your point is right. We were close but so far on all these guys. But not all will leave us with the same what if. So it’s best to not think about it much.

[Pakuni]

Complain about Wojo not pulling more Michigan kids away from Izzo ... then wonder why some think you have unrealistic expectations.

[Its DJOver]

How solid was Greg’s MSU offer?  Was it one of those “wait and see” deals where he’d get the scholly if other guys turned it down?  I don’t know much about the inside details of recruiting, but I’ve heard that not all scholarship offers are created equal.  I have a hard time believing that MSU was seriously targeting Greg, who’s a nice player but not “Izzo’s living in his high school gym” nice.

But hey, people have actually said on here that Traci Carter was a recruiting “miss” for Jay Wright, so who knows.

Based on the timeline of Greg's 247 recruiting profile he took two unofficials and an official there before committing to MU, I would have to look deeper into the "offered" and "committed" dates of their other targets, and while I'm sure Izzo wasn't "living in his gym", the offer was legit.

Only real take i have from this thread isthat in 5+ years Wojo has failed to land a high major PG. Im in Wojos camp but that is pathetic and it has been a major thirn in our side in each season

Even after reclassifying, Markus was listed as the number 8 PG (per 247, Cassius was also 7) in his class, and played PG for the USA.  He hasn't developed into a PG, but he certainly was a top tier PG target.  I remember watching Traci and Haanif struggle at times, and think that Markus was a "must have".  Also while not a high school recruit, Rowsey was a very solid PG.  His deficiencies came on the other end of the court.  It was magnified this year because of Greg's injury and Chartouny not panning out, and PG is the biggest question mark going forward, but just look at the total number of transfers this year to see that you don't necessarily need to get a top high school prospect.

https://247sports.com/Season/2016-Basketball/RecruitRankings/?InstitutionGroup=HighSchool&Position=PG

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Scoop Mind Hive:  "We need more talent!!!"

<Wojo recruits a couple major guys who go elsewhere.>

Scoop Mind Hive:  "Why is he wasting time recruiting those guys!!!"

[Nukem2]

Symir Torrance

[Goose]

IMO it is not so much the loss of the top guys noted in this thread, but more the drop off of the plan B guys landed. Love Wojo chasing the big boys and hope he continues chasing the best of the best. I question his talent evaluation in regards to what his backup plan looks like. If Theo and Traci Carter were Tillman and Winston replacements, either overestimating plan B talent or scrambling to get bodies.

I will say this for Wojo, if he has ability to land whales, and very well might, I would give him all the time needed to land them. Everyone talks about having stomach for a rebuild, I have the stomach for a decade rebuild if the end result has studs on the team. The only reason I would give Wojo more rope is simply based off potential big time recruiting. At this point, the jury is out, but he might prove to be a big time recruiter.

As for someone that said we were never getting those guys, I am pretty confident that is not the case with all guys noted. I think MU was much closer to landing a couple of guys than you might think.

[Norm]

Complain about Wojo not pulling more Michigan kids away from Izzo ... then wonder why some think you have unrealistic expectations.

This. Izzo is very well respected in Michigan by players and coaches at the AAU and high school level. He was recruiting Cassius Winston very early on in his high school career, as well as Xavier Tillman. It was goign to be very hard for Wojo to win those recruiting battles. Wojo got the leg up on Izzo and recruited and offered Greg Elliott earlier than MSU did, so when Izzo came calling after Greg had a phenomenal senior year Wojo had built up credibility with Greg that helped him choose Marquette over MSU. It was a very real offer form MSU but Marquette beat MSU to the punch there.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Goose, good point on the plan B talent.  I'm not down as much on Theo are you seem to be, but Wojo seems to take chances on some guys.  Some don't pan out - like Carter.  And some do end up being solid contributors, but they'll never be stars - like Theo and Sacar.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Goose-

Wojo was hoping to land both Tillman and John.  Missing on Tillman lead to Froling and Morrow being added as transfers.

Traci Carter was the plan b after Nick Noskowiak had his personal life go off the rails.  Wojo then targeted Winston in the next class but quickly realized Michigan State was the heavy favorite.   Wojo moved on to Rowsey, then made Howard a priority for 2017.  But Howard reclassified late so Wojo took him in 2016.  So 2017 became a non-PG year.

[Goose]

Headband

I was speaking in general terms. Wojo has gone after the right guys, IMO, but plan B has been a major drop off from plan A. Hey, this is as close I am going to get to giving Wojo a hall pass. I love chasing the big boys, and again, I am not willing to say he cannot land 'em in the future. I only question the guys he did land. Major, major, major talent decline over first choice.

[Herman Cain]

to Cassius Winston's choice of MSU over MU as the point that defines Wojo's MU coaching resume. Similar to Majerus' loss of Ricky Olson and Joe Wolf. Rick could never get over the hump at MU. History may repeat, aina?

Those two prospects would have changed the trajectory for sure. As both kids ended up performing to their potential. I think Dwayne Johnson ineligibility was the straw that broke the camel back for Majerus.

[MU82]

Symir Torrance

Torrence