MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Floorslapper on November 14, 2018, 10:06:57 PM
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After watching tonight's game how would you have answered these questions:
Which team was missing 3 players, was in just their second year under their current head coach, and is the 269th youngest team in college basketball and ranked 194th in minutes continuity from last season?
Which team was playing with its full roster, is in its 5-year under the same coach and ranks 239th in experience, and 90th in minutes continuity from the last year?
Feel bad for the players on this team. Great kids. Good basketball players. Saddled with a mediocre at best head coach.
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Here we go
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Here we go
Yep! Here we go, year 5 under Wojo and still the same old $h!t. Late rotations, zero fight, the list goes on.
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After watching tonight's game how would you have answered these questions:
Which team was missing 3 players, was in just their second year under their current head coach, and is the 269th youngest team in college basketball and ranked 194th in minutes continuity from last season?
Which team was playing with its full roster, is in its 5-year under the same coach and ranks 239th in experience, and 90th in minutes continuity from the last year?
Feel bad for the players on this team. Great kids. Good basketball players. Saddled with a mediocre at best head coach.
Are you one of those guys that when we go on and win 4 or 5 in a row you disappear?
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Are you one of those guys that when we go on and win 4 or 5 in a row you disappear?
He's a relatively new poster (like yourself) so one can't say for sure - but my educated guess is "NO!"
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Are you one of those guys that when we go on and win 4 or 5 in a row you disappear?
Considering we've yet to win 3 consecutive Big East regular season games in the Wojo era, I'm not too worried about the above.
But, should we achieve that in the weak Big East this year, and we make a return to the Top 25, I'll be sure to give Wojo props and his due.
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He’s right. Wojo supporters - don’t talk yourself into wasting any more time! Let’s be loud and force changes.
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After watching tonight's game how would you have answered these questions:
Which team was missing 3 players, was in just their second year under their current head coach, and is the 269th youngest team in college basketball and ranked 194th in minutes continuity from last season?
Which team was playing with its full roster, is in its 5-year under the same coach and ranks 239th in experience, and 90th in minutes continuity from the last year?
Feel bad for the players on this team. Great kids. Good basketball players. Saddled with a mediocre at best head coach.
While I accept your overall point of MU not stepping up and distinguishing who they are (or should be) against IU, the bolded part is incorrect. Greg Elliott is out, and his quickness was missing in this game.
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He’s right. Wojo supporters - don’t talk yourself into wasting any more time! Let’s be loud and force changes.
Yeah.....I think you may overvalue Scoop's impact on Wojo's job evaluation....or anything for that matter
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While I accept your overall point of MU not stepping up and distinguishing who they are (or should be) against IU, the bolded part is incorrect. Greg Elliott is out, and his quickness was missing in this game.
My hope was that we could use a medical redshirt on Greg. But I do admit that this game pushes me towards the "get that kid back here as soon as possible" camp
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While I accept your overall point of MU not stepping up and distinguishing who they are (or should be) against IU, the bolded part is incorrect. Greg Elliott is out, and his quickness was missing in this game.
Good point. Greg would help this team, yet don't think his being available would have been enough to get us a win, or even a loss by less than 10 based on how we played overall.
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one game
A bad one but one game
Get marcus over to the 2g and things change
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I think IU was missing 4 players per IU friends. But hey...we were missing Greg. So...prolly would have only lost 90-72
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Yeah.....I think you may overvalue Scoop's impact on Wojo's job evaluation....or anything for that matter
I think you undervalue. We’re fans. We’re the revenue. The #FireKidd movement started on a message board just like this and took to Twitter. We may not be everything but we’re not nothing.
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I think IU was missing 4 players per IU friends. But hey...we were missing Greg. So...prolly would have only lost 90-72
This is true. One was a walk-on and one was Race Thompson who is an unknown at this point. But they were down a top 75 freshman and a starter. I certainly underestimated them. That Phinesee kid is a gamer. I already knew Langford was good but Phinessee impressed me the most. Slowed down Markus and executed their offense really well.
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I think you undervalue. We’re fans. We’re the revenue. The #FireKidd movement started on a message board just like this and took to Twitter. We may not be everything but we’re not nothing.
Wojo's not Kidd, he's more like McCarthy so i suspect we've got him for another 5-10 years. He's not going anywhere. So if we're going to push for anything, lets push that he hire some defensive minded hard nosed assistant who can teach good solid fundamentals.
Sort of like when Crean hired that Williams guy.
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one game
A bad one but one game
Get marcus over to the 2g and things change
Probably a good idea. Yet Joe C isn't going to create a lot of good looks for Markus as he's simply not athletic enough to collapse a D and create drive/kick looks for Markus (or Sam). But on the positive, moving Joe C to the 1 takes the ball out of Markus's hands, where he becomes a turnover machine when trying to do too much off the dribble.
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This is true. One was a walk-on and one was Race Thompson who is an unknown at this point. But they were down a top 75 freshman and a starter. I certainly underestimated them. That Phinesee kid is a gamer. I already knew Langford was good but Phinessee impressed me the most. Slowed down Markus and executed their offense really well.
How about 55? They also seemed to run a much better offense than MU. MU is a step slow, but Anim and Bailey have to bring more to the game then they showed
tonight, that is for sure. I am not sure about this year but McEven and Markus playing the 2 next year will be much better. If you want to play Joey and Sam together
with Theo, you better start thinking about a zone, to slow. Joey had a nice game today, liked what I saw. Sam for a few minutes, that was about it. Game was over
at 19-5. It was one game, no more, no less. If you miss your free throws and threes, game over. Lots to work on for the coaches to digest this effort, or lack of.
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Game was over at 19-5.
Actually it wasn't. We cut it to 29-22 and had good momentum. Then Cain missed 2 free throws and we didn't score a basket for another 5 minutes.
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Are you one of those guys that when we go on and win 4 or 5 in a row you disappear?
Outside of December buy games, when was the last time MU won 4 or 5 in a row?
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Outside of December buy games, when was the last time MU won 4 or 5 in a row?
We won 5 of 6 to finish last year sandwiched around the DePaul loss. But yeah under Wojo we've pretty much avoided losing streaks and winning streaks.
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Outside of December buy games, when was the last time MU won 4 or 5 in a row?
Not counting cupcakes we won 4 in a row in the Big East 6 years ago.
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one game
A bad one but one game
Get marcus over to the 2g and things change
One game, yes. But 7th worst defensive game of kenpom era for MU
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One game, yes. But 7th worst defensive game of kenpom era for MU
Not true. That was based on incorrect stats. Not saying it was good, but this is factually incorrect.
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I think you undervalue. We’re fans. We’re the revenue. The #FireKidd movement started on a message board just like this and took to Twitter. We may not be everything but we’re not nothing.
Nah, we are nothing!
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I think you undervalue. We’re fans. We’re the revenue. The #FireKidd movement started on a message board just like this and took to Twitter. We may not be everything but we’re not nothing.
I think you are vastly overrating the impact the "movement" had on the decision to fire Kidd.
And no, Wojo shouldn't be fired.
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I've seen enough to judge. Wojo ain't got it.
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While I accept your overall point of MU not stepping up and distinguishing who they are (or should be) against IU, the bolded part is incorrect. Greg Elliott is out, and his quickness was missing in this game.
Now thats funny ;D
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Uggh Phinisee, a 5-11 true freshman playing his third ever game, had as many assists as our entire team...
A 4-star rated roughly around #100... How many of our current roster was evaluated at or better than that?
Why didn't "inexperience" stop him from dishing out 8 dimes?
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Here are some observations others have said already. But my keys:
Their coach better prepared than ours.
Markus is a bad PG. They knew it. Prepped for it. Told us beforehand. And did it. On Wojo.
Not ready for stiff competition. They weren’t Michigan good but Jay’s team wasn’t ready either.
We have a lot of new faces trying to work it out. Easy to mask against cupcakes. On Wojo to figure out.
We have to get better fast before our quality win potential dwindles. BE won’t have many this year. We could easily have 6 losses at end of noncon if Wojo doesn’t get things together.
We have talent. Wojo needs to get us together sooner rather than later.
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MUScoop opinions aside; MU has not offered an extension to Wojo for a reason. Like it or hate it, it is a fact.
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Before the season, most predictions had MUBB with 1, 2, or at most 3 losses in the non-conference part of the schedule. If things don't get fixed (and fast), the following games will or could all be losses:
Kansas (obviously a loss)
Louisville
Kansas State
Wisconsin
Buffalo
So, 5 weeks from now (on Dec 22), we could be staring straight at a 6-6 record. There's no way this team with these players should be anywhere near that kind of record to start the year.
That's 100% on Wojo. He admitted as much last night after the game. The coaches aren't doing their jobs and don't have these guys ready to compete right now against top 50 teams.
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MUScoop opinions aside; MU has not offered an extension to Wojo for a reason. Like it or hate it, it is a fact.
Actually Wojo has already received his first extension. He's signed through the 21-22 season.
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Actually Wojo has already received his first extension. He's signed through the 21-22 season.
Was that the amateur hour extension Lovell offered after we won the Pre-Season NIT (that resulted in us missing the post-season NIT), coming off Wojo's inaugural 4-14 Big East campaign, at a point in which Wojo still had 4 more years left on the original contract?
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Before the season, most predictions had MUBB with 1, 2, or at most 3 losses in the non-conference part of the schedule. If things don't get fixed (and fast), the following games will or could all be losses:
Kansas (obviously a loss)
Louisville
Kansas State
Wisconsin
Buffalo
So, 5 weeks from now (on Dec 22), we could be staring straight at a 6-6 record. There's no way this team with these players should be anywhere near that kind of record to start the year.
That's 100% on Wojo. He admitted as much last night after the game. The coaches aren't doing their jobs and don't have these guys ready to compete right now against top 50 teams.
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I'm concerned about the 6-6 also. Buffalo and UW are looking good.
But it hasn't happened yet. Its a test of Wojo to get his team prepared before we get there. UW at home and Buffalo should still be wins. Maybe Louisville if we see them. Its on Wojo IF we hit 6-6...not a done deal yet.
I also have the thought that "One point does not define a vector" ... we had 1 bad loss ... I need to wait on judgement until we have another bad data-point. Losing to Kansas for example, is not a bad loss...but losing by 30 would be.
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Was that the amateur hour extension Lovell offered after we won the Pre-Season NIT (that resulted in us missing the post-season NIT), coming off Wojo's inaugural 4-14 Big East campaign, at a point in which Wojo still had 4 more years left on the original contract?
You can like it or hate it. In this case I was just correcting misinformation
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I think you are vastly overrating the impact the "movement" had on the decision to fire Kidd.
And no, Wojo shouldn't be fired.
So just keep wallowing in mediocrity for the forseeable future?? Cool story Sultan. You yourself have said you expect a top 3 BE finish, and high NCAA tourney seed, short of that, will you THEN finally start to see what some of us have seen awhile ago?? He'd need to go...period.
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Alot of people have talked about how wojo wanted to build the program for sustained success (i.e. not the Juco route). However, after seeing Archie' team last night, I'm starting to believe that wojo isn't building anything. Archie doesn't have a roster full of jucos, his team is young. yet 2 years in the team looks like its going to complete.
Wojo's had 5 and we look like a mid-major.
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Actually Wojo has already received his first extension. He's signed through the 21-22 season.
Does this mean that after this season that Wojo will either be fired or given an extension? What decent player will want to commit to a coach who is only under contract through his sophomore year?
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So just keep wallowing in mediocrity for the forseeable future?? Cool story Sultan. You yourself have said you expect a top 3 BE finish, and high NCAA tourney seed, short of that, will you THEN finally start to see what some of us have seen awhile ago?? He'd need to go...period.
I have stated my expectations for this year and next year. Wojo should not, unless this year turns into an absolute disaster, be fired after this year.
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Actually Wojo has already received his first extension. He's signed through the 21-22 season.
Seriously? I hope you are kidding. We all know about the original extension. If MU was sold on Wojo he would have been extended already. MU has put him in a position to be recruiting kids that don't know if he will be their coach for their 4 years at MU. I don't disagree with MU's position, he has not earned an extension but it is being used against him in recruiting.
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Does this mean that after this season that Wojo will either be fired or given an extension? What decent player will want to commit to a coach who is only under contract through his sophomore year?
He might be given an extension. Let's see how the season plays out.
Why does Scoop act like a bunch of ninnies after the first big loss every single year?
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Alot of people have talked about how wojo wanted to build the program for sustained success (i.e. not the Juco route). However, after seeing Archie' team last night, I'm starting to believe that wojo isn't building anything. Archie doesn't have a roster full of jucos, his team is young. yet 2 years in the team looks like its going to complete.
Wojo's had 5 and we look like a mid-major.
Archie does appear to be a hell of a coach. Let's also remember that he inherited Juwan Morgan, the #1 player in value add this season. That can help a team reload really quickly as does landing a kid like Langford. The the one that impressed me the most is Phinesee, barely a 4-star but played like veteran. Archie found a good one there.
All that being said, I would have no qualms with anyone who said Archie is a better coach than Wojo. All the evidence certainly indicates that.
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Seriously? I hope you are kidding. We all know about the original extension.
I don't know what you are saying here. Yes, Wojo is signed through the 2021-22 season, I wasn't kidding. But then you say we all know about the original extension. The original extension was to the 21-22 season.
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He might be given an extension. Let's see how the season plays out.
Why does Scoop act like a bunch of ninnies after the first big loss every single year?
My point is, doing nothing after this season is not an option, there will either have to be an extension or a parting of the ways, or is my logic flawed?
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My point is, doing nothing after this season is not an option, there will either have to be an extension or a parting of the ways, or is my logic flawed?
You are correct, but (serious question) how often to coaches actually see an entire contract through? Seems like there is a lot of leaving early/firing, so it would all be dependent on what his buyout is.
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My point is, doing nothing after this season is not an option, there will either have to be an extension or a parting of the ways, or is my logic flawed?
There's giving him an extension...and GIVING HIM AN EXTENSION!!!
Put it this way, if it is a year or two, that won't stand in the way of firing him after next year. If it is a five year extension, that's something else entirely.
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You're telling me a guy with more coaching experience at a blue blood school is better than our coach?!?
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There's giving him an extension...and GIVING HIM AN EXTENSION!!!
Put it this way, if it is a year or two, that won't stand in the way of firing him after next year. If it is a five year extension, that's something else entirely.
That is true. I did not think about it that way. However, unless we are in the final four, even giving him a 2 year extension will cause some of Scoop to have a complete meltdown.
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That is true. I did not think about it that way. However, unless we are in the final four, even giving him a 2 year extension will cause some of Scoop to have a complete meltdown.
Scoop has a meltdown all the time. We're the toddler of message boards.
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Meltdown? If this is a meltdown, Wojo has a job for life.
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I don't know what you are saying here. Yes, Wojo is signed through the 2021-22 season, I wasn't kidding. But then you say we all know about the original extension. The original extension was to the 21-22 season.
I'm saying the original extension was what, 4 years ago? MU was buying in on Wojo then and giving him the security to build a program and recruit at the highest level. Recruits had a high level of confidence that Wojo was going to be their coach while at MU. That is no longer the case and Wojo has to earn the extension.
It would be foolhardy for MU to have a coach with only a couple of years left on his contract lead the program. The negative recruiting against MU would make the coach's job impossible. MU is approaching the decision time with Wojo quickly.
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I have stated my expectations for this year and next year. Wojo should not, unless this year turns into an absolute disaster, be fired after this year.
Define disaster...to me, if they miss the tourney, that is an unmitigated disaster, and he needs to go..if they make the tourney and don't get higher then say a 7-8 seed(6 is teetering on the brink)..that's a disaster and to me he should go, but I'm sure he wouldn't because this administration seems satisfied with mediocrity.
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This ain't no UW-Whitewater we're talkin' 'bout. Dis is high steaks D-1 bb. Rock chalk Warhawks, aina?
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Define disaster...to me, if they miss the tourney, that is an unmitigated disaster, and he needs to go..if they make the tourney and don't get higher then say a 7-8 seed(6 is teetering on the brink)..that's a disaster and to me he should go, but I'm sure he wouldn't because this administration seems satisfied with mediocrity.
I would say not making the tournament would be a disaster given the expectations. But I doubt he would be fired under that circumstance.
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Lets go full circle:
1. Crean coaches at MU
2. Crean leaves MU for IU
3. Crean recruits players to IU
4. Crean gets Fired from IU
5. Some of Creans recruits beat MU
6. Only option = re-hire crean, recruit players and go back and beat IU.
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Define disaster...to me, if they miss the tourney, that is an unmitigated disaster, and he needs to go..if they make the tourney and don't get higher then say a 7-8 seed..that's a disaster and to me he should go, but I'm sure he wouldn't because this administration seems satisfied with mediocrity.
I would define disaster as missing the tournament. If they get in as a low seed, it's a disappointment but not a disaster. You never know what can happen from a lower seed, look at K-State last year, Loyola, VCU, etc. If they do miss the tournament this year, however, I do think it's worth considering a change. This is the team we've been building toward for five years. Scholarships are full, we have a mix of experience and talent, barring injury or mass transfers we should be able to at a minimum get in. If it can't at least get to the NCAAs, then why would there be a reasonable expectation of this working out significantly better in the long term?
I suspect Wojo will get next year regardless, but it would take a lot of convincing for me to believe he deserves 2019-20 if he can't make the Tournament in 2019 with a full complement of players.
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I would define disaster as missing the tournament. If they get in as a low seed, it's a disappointment but not a disaster. You never know what can happen from a lower seed, look at K-State last year, Loyola, VCU, etc. If they do miss the tournament this year, however, I do think it's worth considering a change. This is the team we've been building toward for five years. Scholarships are full, we have a mix of experience and talent, barring injury or mass transfers we should be able to at a minimum get in. If it can't at least get to the NCAAs, then why would there be a reasonable expectation of this working out significantly better in the long term?
I suspect Wojo will get next year regardless, but it would take a lot of convincing for me to believe he deserves 2019-20 if he can't make the Tournament in 2019 with a full complement of players.
Bingo. And I'm not even giving the "full complement of players" caveat.
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Bingo. And I'm not even giving the "full complement of players" caveat.
Couldn't agree more.
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I don't think Wojo is a good coach. He is mediocre at best. The way he is going to win is by bringing in high end talent. For the last 4 years, I have been reading posts from Wojo backers wearing blue and gold colored glasses, wait until next year when its his roster, more experience, better talent, more height, better skills, more athleticism.....yada, yada, yada. Its always been an excuse. When does it end?
Yes, this is game number 3 of the season and teams lose and get blown out every once in awhile. This is probably a closer game if we made our free throws, we shot better from 3, Howard wasn't a turnover machine at the start of the game and didn't chuck stupid shots at stupid times. You can blame bad shooting, a tough road environment or you can lay some blame on Wojo. It was obvious from Archie's presser that they were not going to let Howard beat them. And very obvious when they were throwing multiple defenders on him whenever he put the ball on the floor. Why did Wojo allow that to happen? That is bad coaching. I hope to God this is a one off bad game but past experiences makes me think this is not an outlier. We have a tough schedule coming up:
Kansas
Louisville
Kansas State
Wisconsin
Buffalo
We will know within the next month what kind of team and season we are going to have. The good news is that the Big East is not looking good so even if we lose 4 out of 5 from the list above, we should still be able to contend for a top 3 Big East finish but we better not lose 4 out of 5 above and 5 out of 6 against tough non-conference competition.
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mufanatic
No doubt that BE being way down is the silver lining for Wojo and his supporters.
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mufanatic
No doubt that BE being way down is the silver lining for Wojo and his supporters.
I don’t know. He’s going to be measured on whether we make the tournament or not. Not Big East standing. A bad Big East makes it more difficult to do that. Especially, if it’s a slow start in the non-conference and we need resume wins.
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I don't think Wojo is a good coach. He is mediocre at best. The way he is going to win is by bringing in high end talent. For the last 4 years, I have been reading posts from Wojo backers wearing blue and gold colored glasses, wait until next year when its his roster, more experience, better talent, more height, better skills, more athleticism.....yada, yada, yada. Its always been an excuse. When does it end?
Just to clarify, tHe "Wojo backers" that I have seen have pretty universally said wait till year five. Not wait until next year. So it ends this year.
You do make a good point about Archie and stopping Howard. It was very clear that was the plan and our early response seemed to be let Markus power through it. He might have fallen into the same trap I did, no way some barely top 100 true freshman can stop Howard. That was a bad assumption. When the plan is to limit Howard, he needs to be looking for others more. He did have two good passing games in the cupcake games. Let's hope this lesson sticks
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mufanatic
No doubt that BE being way down is the silver lining for Wojo and his supporters.
I don't give a rats arse about where we finish in the Big East. I care about where we get seeded in March
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I don't think Wojo is a good coach. He is mediocre at best. The way he is going to win is by bringing in high end talent. For the last 4 years, I have been reading posts from Wojo backers wearing blue and gold colored glasses, wait until next year when its his roster, more experience, better talent, more height, better skills, more athleticism.....yada, yada, yada. Its always been an excuse. When does it end?
Yes, this is game number 3 of the season and teams lose and get blown out every once in awhile. This is probably a closer game if we made our free throws, we shot better from 3, Howard wasn't a turnover machine at the start of the game and didn't chuck stupid shots at stupid times. You can blame bad shooting, a tough road environment or you can lay some blame on Wojo. It was obvious from Archie's presser that they were not going to let Howard beat them. And very obvious when they were throwing multiple defenders on him whenever he put the ball on the floor. Why did Wojo allow that to happen? That is bad coaching. I hope to God this is a one off bad game but past experiences makes me think this is not an outlier. We have a tough schedule coming up:
Kansas
Louisville
Kansas State
Wisconsin
Buffalo
We will know within the next month what kind of team and season we are going to have. The good news is that the Big East is not looking good so even if we lose 4 out of 5 from the list above, we should still be able to contend for a top 3 Big East finish but we better not lose 4 out of 5 above and 5 out of 6 against tough non-conference competition.
Right now, Archie is a better coach that Wojo, but it's not like the bolded is some revolutionary game plan. Wojo should have been better prepared, and Wojo will likely see others coaches implement the same strategy. It was occasionally attempted last year, but not as frequently with 3 lights out shooters, one of which was a good distributor as well. Markus' passing and vision either need to improve (which isn't going to happen overnight), or Wojo needs to develop a counter to this. We will see other teams try to do this, and what adjustments Wojo can make to it, and their effectiveness will be a large factor in our offensive potency this season.
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Right now, Archie is a better coach that Wojo, but it's not like the bolded is some revolutionary game plan. Wojo should have been better prepared, and Wojo will likely see others coaches implement the same strategy. It was occasionally attempted last year, but not as frequently with 3 lights out shooters, one of which was a good distributor as well. Markus' passing and vision either need to improve (which isn't going to happen overnight), or Wojo needs to develop a counter to this. We will see other teams try to do this, and what adjustments Wojo can make to it, and their effectiveness will be a large factor in our offensive potency this season.
The adjustment is simple really...start Chartouney, and give him the ball handling responsibilities..that's what he's there for anyway. He sees the court very well, he takes care of the ball, and he's a lock down defender..any offense he brings is gravy. Sacar has been invisible anyway, he can come off the bench. Bailey needs to come off the bench as well..I start either Morrow or Joey. Just those two changes COULD(with Chartouney it would), make a world of difference.
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TAMU
Love your doubling down on March seeding today. Hat's off to your optimism and support of the program.
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The adjustment is simple really...start Chartouney, and give him the ball handling responsibilities..that's what he's there for anyway. He sees the court very well, he takes care of the ball, and he's a lock down defender..any offense he brings is gravy. Sacar has been invisible anyway, he can come off the bench. Bailey needs to come off the bench as well..I start either Morrow or Joey. Just those two changes COULD(with Chartouney it would), make a world of difference.
I'd go JC, Markus, Sam, Jamal and Joey.
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The adjustment is simple really...start Chartouney, and give him the ball handling responsibilities..that's what he's there for anyway. He sees the court very well, he takes care of the ball, and he's a lock down defender..any offense he brings is gravy. Sacar has been invisible anyway, he can come off the bench. Bailey needs to come off the bench as well..I start either Morrow or Joey. Just those two changes COULD(with Chartouney it would), make a world of difference.
I don't think it's that simple. If JC's offensive struggles continue, teams will be able to severely sag off of him to send help at Markus/Sam. Ball movement in general needs to be both faster and more accurate, and I actually think giving more minutes to Jamal could help too. Won't ever be as good offensively as AR was, but can hit the three at a respectable clip, and his first step is as fast as anyone's. Throw up a pump fake, drive, and either finish or get the ball moving again.
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I don't give a rats arse about where we finish in the Big East. I care about where we get seeded in March
Dat mae bee in front of da TV watchin' da udders, hey?
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The thing that irritates me is that Indiana told Wojo and everyone else how he was going to beat them, limit Markus, and then they did just that. Not sure if Wojo didn’t prepare at all and use Sam or someone else as another main option (Joey proved himself), or if he genuinely doesn’t believe that anyone else can take that responsibility and use Markus to get other guys open rather than putting up contested jumper after jumper. By all indications it doesn’t seem like Wojo tells Markus not to take those shots and look to distribute. Sam and Joey couldn’t miss at points.
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The thing that irritates me is that Indiana told Wojo and everyone else how he was going to beat them, limit Markus, and then they did just that. Not sure if Wojo didn’t prepare at all and use Sam or someone else as another main option (Joey proved himself), or if he genuinely doesn’t believe that anyone else can take that responsibility and use Markus to get other guys open rather than putting up contested jumper after jumper. By all indications it doesn’t seem like Wojo tells Markus not to take those shots and look to distribute. Sam and Joey couldn’t miss at points.
I mean, you don't really tell your best shooter not to take shots. You tell him to use better judgement.
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I mean, you don't really tell your best shooter not to take shots. You tell him to use better judgement.
Markus can and will carry the team offensively but he killed rallies with his unnecessary shots and the judgment didn’t seem to get better as the game went on
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Scoop has a meltdown all the time. We're the toddler of message boards.
Don't ever go to an SEC football board then. Those fans expect to win, and when their teams don't win, or even don't win by enough, the boards are just like ours, if not worse.
I think fans expecting to win is normal. The most active voices here are the most patient, but that's not necessarily representative of the full fan base.
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Just to clarify, tHe "Wojo backers" that I have seen have pretty universally said wait till year five. Not wait until next year. So it ends this year.
I seem to remember a lot of talk about Year 4 when he'd have a full roster of his guys too, though.
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Frankly I think this board has been pretty reasonable given the a) consistent underperformance of coaches and players and/or b) failure to bring in the players necessary to perform at a regular tournament level. I'm not sharpening the pitchfork for 1 early season road loss, but whatever patience I had is pretty much gone.
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Not making the NCAA in year 5, after all of the resources that have been expended, would be huge disappointment and it would officially become a very warm seat. It's a results business, and he has not produced any results.
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If the fish smell, blame da fisherman, hey?
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Yep! Here we go, year 5 under Wojo and still the same old $h!t. Late rotations, zero fight, the list goes on.
MU Scoop is a good site to express our praise and criticism of the MU Golden Eagles. However, at the end of the game, I'm proud to have Wojo represent MU and I'm even more proud of the fine group of student athletes he has successfully recruited – win or lose. And we will win!!
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MU Scoop is a good site to express our praise and criticism of the MU Golden Eagles. However, at the end of the game, I'm proud to have Wojo represent MU and I'm even more proud of the fine group of student athletes he has successfully recruited – win or lose. And we will win!!
Teal?
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MU Scoop is a good site to express our praise and criticism of the MU Golden Eagles. However, at the end of the game, I'm proud to have Wojo represent MU and I'm even more proud of the fine group of student athletes he has successfully recruited – win or lose. And we will win!!
I like the sentiment but is better suited for DIII athletics not a university that spends $10MM on basketball and asks patrons to spend hundreds to thousands of dollars per year for tickets.
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I like the sentiment but is better suited for DIII athletics not a university that spends $10MM on basketball and asks patrons to spend hundreds to thousands of dollars per year for tickets.
No one is forcing you to buy tickets. Or donate to the university
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Points:
1) Expectations were high this summer with no hard data to support those expectations. Indiana is our first data point and it was ugly. Kansas, Kansas State, Buffalo, and Wisconsin are going to be likely losses before BE play if something doesn't change quickly.
2) Marcus is a great shooter if he is unchallenged. He is not a point guard. When he drives against top teams he has no plan so he tries the impossible by trying to split double teams rather than dumping off to an outlet. That has been a consistent pattern of not thinking of options in advance. Problem is we have no obvious alternative.
2) Hausers are the most rounded and reliable players on the team. Without them it would be even worse. Glad we have them.
3) Morrow, Bailey and Chartouny continue to contribute little and are soft. Will they come around is questionable.
4) Theo, Cain, Sacar and Heft have occasional contributions but how much will they improve? Can they compete against top twenty-five teams?
5) Wojo clearly identified the problems after the game. Question is can he get true buy in from Marcus that hero ball does not win games? Can Wojo develop some sort of speed and toughness from players listed in 3 and 4 above? Can he make the tough decisions if hero ball continues?
The pre-season results will be a very good indicator of where we are going. I hope for the best but I need to manage expections given what I have seen to date.
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Don't ever go to an SEC football board then. Those fans expect to win, and when their teams don't win, or even don't win by enough, the boards are just like ours, if not worse.
I think fans expecting to win is normal. The most active voices here are the most patient, but that's not necessarily representative of the full fan base.
That's a joke, right?
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That's a joke, right?
Well...take a look at the daily post averages for TAMU, Tower, MU 82 - they are some of the most prolific posters here. Sultan, Wades and Brew also have a long-standing track record of
Active contribution here. They’ve all been largely pro-Wojo the past 4 years...
Nothing wrong with that, but, the original point made does have validity.
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Well...take a look at the daily post averages for TAMU, Tower, MU 82 - they are some of the most prolific posters here. Sultan, Wades and Brew also have a long-standing track record of
Active contribution here. They’ve all been largely pro-Wojo the past 4 years...
Nothing wrong with that, but, the original point made does have validity.
Glad someone understood what I was saying
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Here are some observations others have said already. But my keys:
Their coach better prepared than ours.
Markus is a bad PG. They knew it. Prepped for it. Told us beforehand. And did it. On Wojo.
Not ready for stiff competition. They weren’t Michigan good but Jay’s team wasn’t ready either.
We have a lot of new faces trying to work it out. Easy to mask against cupcakes. On Wojo to figure out.
We have to get better fast before our quality win potential dwindles. BE won’t have many this year. We could easily have 6 losses at end of noncon if Wojo doesn’t get things together.
We have talent. Wojo needs to get us together sooner rather than later.
This is how a smart adult posts. Constructively critical without being cliched and derogatory.
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Points:
1) Expectations were high this summer with no hard data to support those expectations. Indiana is our first data point and it was ugly. Kansas, Kansas State, Buffalo, and Wisconsin are going to be likely losses before BE play if something doesn't change quickly.
Slow down. Buffalo is not a likely loss. Nor is Wisconsin or Kansas State. They all could be, but let's hold off saying likely. All three are home games, I'll take the Warriors.
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Glad someone understood what I was saying
I get it completely. People are frustrated and have a right to be. I took the lack of competing so hard I got physically sick to my stomach. I don't have a family, so sometimes I live and die with MU hoops, and that is not normal. Don't want people to mistake my belief in Wojo for being content with losing. The guy is a winner. This has got to be killing him. Despite how great he seems to have it, with a clear reciprocal love between him and his MU admin, and the love of and stabilizing support from his immediate family and his Duke bloodline, not to mention his hefty salary, I would guess that the days immediately after a tough beat down are immeasurably hard for him. The guy is synonymous with fight and will. By all accounts he loves it here. He wants to succeed HERE. Like his mentor has said...the great thing about college basketball is that the season is long, opportunities abound. Look for our guys to respond in a big way.
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I've seen enough to judge. Wojo ain't got it.
Unfortunately, Wojo is an expert at corporate brown nosing . The bromance with Lovell is alive and well. The Big East is down this year so Wojo can still squeeze out a record above .500. That will get him another couple years contract extension.
What MU needs is for Wojo to get to the 20 win mark again this year which would be possible if the team got hit in the BET. That should actually make him an attractive candidate when the annual coaching carousel comes around. He can then latch onto a power 5 football school program that has fallen on hard times and lock in another long term contract. Buzz was smart enough to do that and I am sure Wojo is smart enough to do the same thing.
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Unfortunately, Wojo is an expert at corporate brown nosing . The bromance with Lovell is alive and well. The Big East is down this year so Wojo can still squeeze out a record above .500. That will get him another couple years contract extension.
What MU needs is for Wojo to get to the 20 win mark again this year which would be possible if the team got hit in the BET. That should actually make him an attractive candidate when the annual coaching carousel comes around. He can then latch onto a power 5 football school program that has fallen on hard times and lock in another long term contract. Buzz was smart enough to do that and I am sure Wojo is smart enough to do the same thing.
Since you're on the topic of what MU needs.....tell us exactly who you think would be a genuine and authentic person to hire, because you are clearly calling out Wojo's authenticity. We have enough armchair jocks and wannabe coaches here, now we apparently have armchair headhunters too. When I look at Coach Wojo, I never see a guy mailing anything in. I don't see an azz-kissing, networking con artist like you describe. I see a genuine, hard-working guy who sees himself as a proud steward of an historic program.
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Listen, I get it, like everyone else on this board (except the Bucky trolls of course), I want Wojo and MU to succeed, very much so. And I get it with Wojo, he has all the right optics, and I understand the deep longing from all of us that he’s our Coach K who leads us to decades of prominence and stability.
Wojo has done *just enough* in his time here to let people keep believing that dream. But I’ve said it before here, I don’t think there is a single person on this board for whom Wojo has *exceeded* expectations, at any point (possibly with the exception of Tower who seems to think that despite the millions we spend on MBB we shouldn’t have any expectations higher than being the best college team in Milwaukee).
But here’s the thing. Where do we want this program to be? Where do the BOT want it to be? Scenario 1. If it’s just making the NCAA every few years and running a clean program then a guy that never exceeds expectations can probably do that. Give Wojo an extension for life.
Scenario 2. But if we want to be an elite program, if we want to win a national title, we need a guy who can either a) recruit the absolute best talent in the country (Cal, Self) or exceed expectations (Wright or, dare I say it, Ryan). In 5 years Wojo has shown neither.
This season is the test. If we aren’t a 5 seed or better in March (or make a deep run as a higher seed), Wojo will have definitively shown that he’s a scenario 1 guy. If we’re fine with that level of mediocrity, sign him for life. If not, then there’s no reason to keep him another year. It’s the sunk cost fallacy. The sooner we cut loose the sooner we’ll get closer to finding the coach that takes us to scenario 2.
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Since you're on the topic of what MU needs.....tell us exactly who you think would be a genuine and authentic person to hire, because you are clearly calling out Wojo's authenticity. We have enough armchair jocks and wannabe coaches here, now we apparently have armchair headhunters too. When I look at Coach Wojo, I never see a guy mailing anything in. I don't see an azz-kissing, networking con artist like you describe. I see a genuine, hard-working guy who sees himself as a proud steward of an historic program.
Just because a guy is a brown noser doesn’t mean he is berift of certain talents. Wojo is playing the game at the highest level that is how you get to be CEO at a big corporation , which is what having the reigns of a Big East level team with a multi million dollar contract is. As you point out he has embraced MU tradition and I have applauded that move , however it was also very shrewd because it elevated him to the same level as the other coaches in MU history, which is something he didn’t yet earn. So as long as he can keep the program clean and deliver Mid level Big East success he can keep control . He has kissed up to all of the Board and made them feel secure about their decision to hire him and extend his contract. The donors are still giving money to the school so from the trustee perspective why rock the boat . It is like the old corporate paradigm of buy an IBM system and no one will question your decision. Wojo is exactly the kind of stuffed shirt that fits into that role perfectly. I have met him many times and he is super cordial and very good in a one on one setting. I truly believe the only way he leaves is if there is a scandal and he is too polished for that.
As for who replaces him when he does get hired away, my view is consistent. Hire Stan, he has shown himself to be a good recruiter and can keep the roster and pipeline in place . My sense is Stan has the potential to actually be a leader and a guy who can relate and motivate guys.
Also I want to make it clear I don’t think Wojo should be fires or even put on hot seat. He is what he is and my strategy would be to just wait it out and let him depart on his own . MU could make some good money in the right scenario where some other team pays for his buyout and didn’t have to shell out big bucks for Stans first contract.
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Frankly I think this board has been pretty reasonable given the a) consistent underperformance of coaches and players and/or b) failure to bring in the players necessary to perform at a regular tournament level. I'm not sharpening the pitchfork for 1 early season road loss, but whatever patience I had is pretty much gone.
This is pretty much where I am too.
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Since you're on the topic of what MU needs.....tell us exactly who you think would be a genuine and authentic person to hire, because you are clearly calling out Wojo's authenticity. We have enough armchair jocks and wannabe coaches here, now we apparently have armchair headhunters too. When I look at Coach Wojo, I never see a guy mailing anything in. I don't see an azz-kissing, networking con artist like you describe. I see a genuine, hard-working guy who sees himself as a proud steward of an historic program.
This all sounds peachy. Can he coach though?
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Unfortunately, Wojo is an expert at corporate brown nosing . The bromance with Lovell is alive and well. The Big East is down this year so Wojo can still squeeze out a record above .500. That will get him another couple years contract extension.
What MU needs is for Wojo to get to the 20 win mark again this year which would be possible if the team got hit in the BET. That should actually make him an attractive candidate when the annual coaching carousel comes around. He can then latch onto a power 5 football school program that has fallen on hard times and lock in another long term contract. Buzz was smart enough to do that and I am sure Wojo is smart enough to do the same thing.
Remember when you told us Wojo had already been given a contract extension during year 3? Said it would be announced at the end of the season? What ever happened to that?
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Remember when you told us Wojo had already been given a contract extension during year 3? Said it would be announced at the end of the season? What ever happened to that?
They amended it so it annually renews with a 4 year notice . This was done so as to be able to tell recruits he would be there for the duration of their eligibility. Like it or not Wojo will never be on the hot seat unless there is a major scandal. That’s why I am not getting worked up over any of the disappointments . As long as Lovell has an iron clad hold on his job Wojo is not going anywhere.
This is why I am keen on the scenario where someone else wants Wojo and Stan steps in. MU can can cash in and not have to shell out for Stan.
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No one is forcing you to buy tickets. Or donate to the university
No they are not (didn't mention donations in my post either) but that has nothing to do with my post.
MU has chosen to compete in big time college basketball. They make a considerable investment into the program (top 10) and 'ask' supporters to pay for the investment (tickets, tv viewership, merchandise, donations, etc.). The biggest motivator for supporters is winning (see DePaul). It does not matter if Wojo is a great guy and his players graduate (those things are already true and MU has not extended his contract); if the program does not win and the money does not come in, he will be gone.
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I would define disaster as missing the tournament. If they get in as a low seed, it's a disappointment but not a disaster. You never know what can happen from a lower seed, look at K-State last year, Loyola, VCU, etc. If they do miss the tournament this year, however, I do think it's worth considering a change. This is the team we've been building toward for five years. Scholarships are full, we have a mix of experience and talent, barring injury or mass transfers we should be able to at a minimum get in. If it can't at least get to the NCAAs, then why would there be a reasonable expectation of this working out significantly better in the long term?
I suspect Wojo will get next year regardless, but it would take a lot of convincing for me to believe he deserves 2019-20 if he can't make the Tournament in 2019 with a full complement of players.
Agree. BTW, nice win for Hurley and UCONN knocking off Cuse.
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They amended it so it annually renews with a 4 year notice . This was done so as to be able to tell recruits he would be there for the duration of their eligibility. Like it or not Wojo will never be on the hot seat unless there is a major scandal. That’s why I am not getting worked up over any of the disappointments . As long as Lovell has an iron clad hold on his job Wojo is not going anywhere.
This is why I am keen on the scenario where someone else wants Wojo and Stan steps in. MU can can cash in and not have to shell out for Stan.
So you lied. There was no contract extension, you made it up.
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This is why I am keen on the scenario where someone else wants Wojo and Stan steps in. MU can can cash in and not have to shell out for Stan.
Honestly, he'd probably be at best fourth on my list. I think my top choice would be Luke Yaklich, with proven program builders and guys well connected in the Midwest like Brian Wardle and TJ Otzelberger also on the list.
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I would be fine with Nate Oats before Stan too. We have no idea if Stan can actually coach.
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I would be fine with Nate Oats before Stan too. We have no idea if Stan can actually coach.
Nate is another that would be on my list. Local guy that definitely seems to have coaching chops.
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Stan upside: Critical in the recruitment of much of the team, continuity, a proven recruiter
Stan downside: Just another assistant from a high major with no head coaching experience.
Porter Moser upside: One good run.
Porter Moser downside: All of his other seasons.
Wardle Upside: MU roots, likely won't go anywhere else.
Wardle downside: How much has he actually won? There is a reason there won't be a ton of competition to grab him
The transition to the big chair isn't for everyone. I remember when another coach was the lead assistant at a high major program for years with experience recruiting, the olympic team and known for his defense as a player. And who knows what a mid major coach will do when given the big chair. Buzz or Groce?
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There's risk in every hire. That's why I like Yaklich. I think going with the defense first guy is a bit safer. I also think it's easier to find an assistant that can help run the offense than one that is laser focused on defense. Same for recruiting. As valuable as Stan has been, Nelson, Chew, Benford, and others have all been able to get players. You can find those guys if you're willing to pay, and we always have been.
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So you lied. There was no contract extension, you made it up.
Yep what he is consistent at, obviously Northern has not read enough of Cain's posts. The showboating is his strength.
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So you lied. There was no contract extension, you made it up.
I think the deal that was made was actually better from Wojo's standpoint than a pure contract extension per se. The amendment cements the contract in place until one of the parties says no more.
Honestly, he'd probably be at best fourth on my list. I think my top choice would be Luke Yaklich, with proven program builders and guys well connected in the Midwest like Brian Wardle and TJ Otzelberger also on the list.
I think any of the names mentioned above would roughly have the same economic benefit to MU in the event Stan wasn't the man.
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Curious why people people who aren't sold on Wojo (justifiably so) think that Stan would be any better. Yea if he were head coach, he would probably run things differently than Wojo, but if he was the next big thing (i.e. Majerus) waiting in the wings, don't you think that our production would have been better in the 3 years he has already been on the staff?
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Curious why people people who aren't sold on Wojo (justifiably so) think that Stan would be any better. Yea if he were head coach, he would probably run things differently than Wojo, but if he was the next big thing (i.e. Majerus) waiting in the wings, don't you think that our production would have been better in the 3 years he has already been on the staff?
There really is only one person (Herman), and most of his stuff is an act anyway.
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There really is only one person (Herman), and most of his stuff is an act anyway.
Gotcha, I knew something smelled fishy.
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Curious why people people who aren't sold on Wojo (justifiably so) think that Stan would be any better. Yea if he were head coach, he would probably run things differently than Wojo, but if he was the next big thing (i.e. Majerus) waiting in the wings, don't you think that our production would have been better in the 3 years he has already been on the staff?
Considering Stan was the one able to close the deals with most of our current players, he's the guy that seemingly connects best.
Your point regarding why haven't we been better with Stan as an assistant - wouldn't he be able to impact our existing performance better under Wojo? Assistants don't get the ultimate say in who plays, the rotation, the substitutions in a game. The buck stops with the head coach. Think no further than how Wes Matthews was used under Crean, versus how he was used by Buzz. Wes said it himself: It feels like I've had the shackles taken off.
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Considering Stan was the one able to close the deals with most of our current players, he's the guy that seemingly connects best.
Your point regarding why haven't we been better with Stan as an assistant - wouldn't he be able to impact our existing performance better under Wojo? Assistants don't get the ultimate say in who plays, the rotation, the substitutions in a game. The buck stops with the head coach. Think no further than how Wes Matthews was used under Crean, versus how he was used by Buzz. Wes said it himself: It feels like I've had the shackles taken off.
You're making a couple of assumptions here that have no evidence really. There is no evidence that Stan connects better or worse than Wojo does. There is also no evidence that he would think differently.
Buzz and TC was a marriage of convenience that lasted one season. Wojo and Stan have been together starting their fourth season now. If there were fundamental philosophical differences, my guess is that they would have parted ways earlier.
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You're making a couple of assumptions here that have no evidence really. There is no evidence that Stan connects better or worse than Wojo does. There is also no evidence that he would think differently.
Buzz and TC was a marriage of convenience that lasted one season. Wojo and Stan have been together starting their fourth season now. If there were fundamental philosophical differences, my guess is that they would have parted ways earlier.
There is a considerable body of evidence that supports the ability of Stan to connect. First, Stan was the intermediary that led to the armistice that was signed between JJJ and Wojo. Stan , working closely with Brett Nelson, gained JJJ's trust when they rebuilt his jump shot and then got him to buy into the things that Wojo was unable to obtain through his brute force techniques. The net result was very favorable for the team. Stan was also the key guy behind the scenes working with Sacar and getting his buy in on the sophomore season redshirt, which is not a very easy sale. Stan worked very hard last season with Greg and Jamal to help them focus their skills in a way that resonated at the Big East level. The dividends from that connection are going to be very valuable .
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So Stan has been the good cop. Wojo was the good cop for K. Does being the good cop mean translate to being an effective head coach?
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I could be wrong, but it is my understanding that many times in practices/scrimmages wojo will coach one group of 5 and an assistant will coach another set of 5. If one of the assistants were leaps and bounds better than wojo and their 5 were consistently beating wojos, I would hope wojo would recognize that and lean more heavily on them for in game adjustment/the drawing up of plays. I still think wojo can get the job done, but if it turns out that he can't, I would most definently be in favor of an outside hire, versus the promotion of an assistant.
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One thing we know about Stan is he can recruit. That’s also the one thing we know about Wojo. One thing I personally believe about Wojo is he can’t coach. That’s something we don’t know about Stan. So there’s a possibility he matches/exceeds Wojo’s recruiting ability and maybe he can exceed his coaching ability
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Assistant coaches play a huge role in practice, usually with the scout team.
If Stan was really that great of a x’s and o’s coach and strategist (he could be, but I’m skeptical) don’t you think Marquette woulda been more prepared on a Wednesday?
Cmon now, I know it’s scoop but people are being especially ridiculous with this one. ESPECIALLY, since this kind of loss happens to Marquette once a year, no matter who is coaching.
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One thing we know about Stan is he can recruit. That’s also the one thing we know about Wojo. One thing I personally believe about Wojo is he can’t coach. That’s something we don’t know about Stan. So there’s a possibility he matches/exceeds Wojo’s recruiting ability and maybe he can exceed his coaching ability
Wojo “can’t coach?” Cmon. He may not be able to take Marquette to the next level but he can coach. I mean Stan could conceivably be worse. Much worse.
Hyperbole doesn’t suit you.
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Wojo “can’t coach?” Cmon. He may not be able to take Marquette to the next level but he can coach. I mean Stan could conceivably be worse. Much worse.
Hyperbole doesn’t suit you.
Do we have evidence that Wojo can coach at this point? Just because someone might be worse doesn't make Wojo good.
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Do we have evidence that Wojo can coach at this point? Just because someone might be worse doesn't make Wojo good.
I can't speak for others, but in my evaluation, we have enough evidence to say that Wojo is a "C-level" coach. I believe this because based on the roster assembled at the start of each season, the team has pretty much performed to expectation. I could hear an argument for a slight underachievement in year two and an argument for a slight overachievment in year three. He doesn't make a team better than the sum of its parts and he doesn't make the team worse than the sum of its parts.
Now this can be okay as long as you are bringing in quality rosters. A C coach with an A+ roster is going to have a pretty good season. I'd argue Sean Miller has been doing that for years at Arizona (setting aside the alleged scandals).
Now this doesn't mean a coach will stay at the same level forever. Coaches develop and they can regress. This is the best roster Wojo has assembled to date. If he performs to expectations (top 30ish type team) his seat will be cool and stay cool until he either regresses or stops bringing in talented rosters (2020 class will be key). If he regresses the seat will start to warm pretty quickly. If he develops than who cares? We'll be too busy celebrating.
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Wojo is a good offensive coach. I feel they run some high level “NBA style” sets. And I don’t think they did much of it the first two games, because they were beating those teams anyways. Why waste your good stuff on bad teams? They were not great from 3 the other night and were just under a point per possession.
Defense, not so great...
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Define disaster...to me, if they miss the tourney, that is an unmitigated disaster, and he needs to go..if they make the tourney and don't get higher then say a 7-8 seed(6 is teetering on the brink)..that's a disaster and to me he should go, but I'm sure he wouldn't because this administration seems satisfied with mediocrity.
It’s not the seed as much as where/ how far we go. What? You gonna fire him before game one of the tourney because we were a low seed? I know what you mean, but I’m worried about the blood caffeine counts on this board sometimes.
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TAMU
Your grading is probably accurate. My problem is that he responsible to put the roster together. In fairness to Wojo, I do think he can recruit, and at different job he might land the whales he has chased. IMO, he is going to land more three stars than four or five stars. If that is the case, he cannot afford to be a C grade coach.
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Do we have evidence that Wojo can coach at this point? Just because someone might be worse doesn't make Wojo good.
Good question. Lets look at some of Wojos recent results against other Beast coaches.
CU- Last two years Wojo is 4-0, despite CU having 2 future NBA players, another 1st team all Beast player, and a coach that was highly looked upon for bringing the program from mid to high major. Not to mention if that coach was cheating he should automatically have "coaching points" subtracted.
DePaul- 4-1 last two years, and even if they had a great coach, It may not matter because that program has much larger problems.
Butler- This is where some are going to start accusing me of being a Homer (and that's okay). Despite what happened last year, I'm still not sold on Jordan for two reasons. First, what he did at UWM, I realize that he didn't have very much talent, but he put up the same record that Wojo did his first year, in a much worse conference. Two, I think Holtmann was extremely undervalued during his time there. Was the second best coach in the conference IMO.
X- Mack was better than Wojo, Steele is obviously still a question mark.
Nova- Wright obviously the best coach in the conference.
SH- Willard was seen as a good coach when he got his great class to win the BET as sophomores. What happened when that class were seniors (exception of Whitehead), Wojo swept them.
STJ- Mullin seems similar to Wojo in the fact that he can assemble some good players, but are inconsistent on the court. Split the series last year.
Gtown- Ewing should still be seen as a question mark in his second year. I'm also worried that rumurs were floated that he only took Gtown because he couldn't get a HC gig in the NBA, and would leave if someone came calling. Either way, Wojo swept him last year.
PC- Cooley has proven to be a very good coach, who I would slot ahead of Wojo.
So is Wojo the best coach in the conference, and the next Coach K? No, but I do not think that he is the worst. We've been part of the log jam in the middle of the conference the last two years, so I think Wojo should be part of the log jam in the middle of coaching ranks. Lets see what happens when this year concludes.
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So is Wojo the best coach in the conference, and the next Coach K? No, but I do not think that he is the worst. We've been part of the log jam in the middle of the conference the last two years, so I think Wojo should be part of the log jam in the middle of coaching ranks. Lets see what happens when this year concludes.
I am not sure these are fair comparisons. Some of these programs do not have the inherent advantages (fan base, facilities, budget, etc,) that Marquette has. If you compare similar programs Wojo has been at best below average thus far.
Hoping it turns around fast but I must admit my patience will be gone by end of season.
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I am not sure these are fair comparisons. Some of these programs do not have the inherent advantages (fan base, facilities, budget, etc,) that Marquette has. If you compare similar programs Wojo has been at best below average thus far.
Hoping it turns around fast but I must admit my patience will be gone by end of season.
This is where I'm at.
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I can't speak for others, but in my evaluation, we have enough evidence to say that Wojo is a "C-level" coach. I believe this because based on the roster assembled at the start of each season, the team has pretty much performed to expectation. I could hear an argument for a slight underachievement in year two and an argument for a slight overachievment in year three. He doesn't make a team better than the sum of its parts and he doesn't make the team worse than the sum of its parts.
Now this can be okay as long as you are bringing in quality rosters. A C coach with an A+ roster is going to have a pretty good season. I'd argue Sean Miller has been doing that for years at Arizona (setting aside the alleged scandals).
Now this doesn't mean a coach will stay at the same level forever. Coaches develop and they can regress. This is the best roster Wojo has assembled to date. If he performs to expectations (top 30ish type team) his seat will be cool and stay cool until he either regresses or stops bringing in talented rosters (2020 class will be key). If he regresses the seat will start to warm pretty quickly. If he develops than who cares? We'll be too busy celebrating.
I think your assessment of Wojo is accurate.
When I look back at some of the programs I followed historically, Michigan State under Jim Heathcoate comes to mind. Heathcoate was not a good recruiter but he had a very good reputation for improving the players he got and being a very solid game coach. So he was more of an A coach with C rosters . His performance was very up and down though because of recruiting. However given that he was at a school like Michigan State there was always the potential for a 4 star recruit to show up on his door step through in state loyalty and when he got one he made the most of it. Coach Izzo came in and was able to establish a more solid and consistent recruiting and built off the player development and coaching tradition that Heathcoate had and took that program to a much higher level.
My sense is we are going to see Wojo and staff to migrate the program toward recruiting more pogo stick ,quick athletic and strong neck types. When you look at these mid level Power 5 football type schools they tend to have 5 or 6 players of that type on the roster . Right now we only have a couple. We are getting by with superior shooting but I think that only goes so far. I think we will see more kids like Dexter coming on board. A kid with an A/ A- level of athleticism who can be coached up. MU can be attractive to those kind of kids. Buzz understood that and that is why I think he was able to have the kind of success at MU that he had.
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I am not sure these are fair comparisons. Some of these programs do not have the inherent advantages (fan base, facilities, budget, etc,) that Marquette has. If you compare similar programs Wojo has been at best below average thus far.
Hoping it turns around fast but I must admit my patience will be gone by end of season.
100%. Having our program as a middle of the road team doesn’t make him middle of the road, it makes him below average which is a very fair assessment of his coaching
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100%. Having our program as a middle of the road team doesn’t make him middle of the road, it makes him below average which is a very fair assessment of his coaching
You must think that Willard, McDermit, and Ewing are absolute trash then, because Wojo has beaten them 8 times in a row.
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You must think that Willard, McDermit, and Ewing are absolute trash then, because Wojo has beaten them 8 times in a row.
I couldn’t care less about the 3 of them or their programs. And that certainly doesn’t change my assessment of Wojo being a below average coach
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I couldn’t care less about the 3 of them or their programs. And that certainly doesn’t change my assessment of Wojo being a below average coach
Well lets do the math. If Wojo is better than Willard, Ewing, and McDermott, which head to head is clearly in favor of Wojo. Whoever is at DePaul is automatically last. Wojo has split with Mullin, but is better IMO, due to overall record as well as (limited), but better postseason success. Wojo is worse than Wright and Cooley, and Jordan and Steele are question marks. Even if Jordan and Steele end up ahead of Wojo, that would put Wojo in the top half of the conference, which by definition is above average. Unless you want to argue that the conference as a whole is below average, which is another losing fight IMO.
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I think your assessment of Wojo is accurate.
When I look back at some of the programs I followed historically, Michigan State under Jim Heathcoate comes to mind. Heathcoate was not a good recruiter but he had a very good reputation for improving the players he got and being a very solid game coach. So he was more of an A coach with C rosters . His performance was very up and down though because of recruiting. However given that he was at a school like Michigan State there was always the potential for a 4 star recruit to show up on his door step through in state loyalty and when he got one he made the most of it. Coach Izzo came in and was able to establish a more solid and consistent recruiting and built off the player development and coaching tradition that Heathcoate had and took that program to a much higher level.
My sense is we are going to see Wojo and staff to migrate the program toward recruiting more pogo stick and quick athletic types. When you look at these mid level Power 5 football type schools they tend to have 5 or 6 players of that type on the roster . Right now we only have a couple. We are getting by with superior shooting but I think that only goes so far. I think we will see more kids like Dexter coming on board. A kid with an A/ A- level of athleticism who can be coached up. MU can be attractive to those kind of kids. Buzz understood that and that is why I think he was able to have the kind of success at MU that he had.
Disappointed no analysis about necks
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Disappointed no analysis about necks
Good catch. Noted and change made.
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Well...take a look at the daily post averages for TAMU, Tower, MU 82 - they are some of the most prolific posters here. Sultan, Wades and Brew also have a long-standing track record of
Active contribution here. They’ve all been largely pro-Wojo the past 4 years...
Nothing wrong with that, but, the original point made does have validity.
Bump.
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Considering we've yet to win 3 consecutive Big East regular season games in the Wojo era, I'm not too worried about the above.
But, should we achieve that in the weak Big East this year, and we make a return to the Top 25, I'll be sure to give Wojo props and his due.
Did he give the props and due?
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Bump.
C'mon tower; Wojo crapped his pants in that game. Wojo has since been potty trained.
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“I can't speak for others, but in my evaluation, we have enough evidence to say that Wojo is a "C-level" coach. ”
This is why heart cannot be evaluated. My first advisor at MU told me that I wasn’t going to get into dental school and should think of some other profession....33 years later...either the guy was a lazy knob or the best motivational speaker you’ll ever find, but I immediately fired him and found a different advisor
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Bump.
An epic 4 letter takedown.
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An epic 4 letter takedown.
And it wasn't even a naughty 4 letter word.
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“I can't speak for others, but in my evaluation, we have enough evidence to say that Wojo is a "C-level" coach. ”
This is why heart cannot be evaluated. My first advisor at MU told me that I wasn’t going to get into dental school and should think of some other profession....33 years later...either the guy was a lazy knob or the best motivational speaker you’ll ever find, but I immediately fired him and found a different advisor
Congrats on applying to dental school for 32 straight years and finally breaking through!
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Holy crap. I just re read the first page of this thread. Amazing.
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Holy crap. I just re read the first page of this thread. Amazing.
I was so happy not to see the little "face on the papers icon" On this thread title, meaning I hadn't posted anything in this one. I know I've been mad after games over the last few years but I don't recall ever calling for Wojo's job.
A modern take on Twain's quote, "It's better to not post and appear stupid than to post and remove all doubt for everyone to see into eternity"
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Congrats on applying to dental school for 32 straight years and finally breaking through!
Swing and a miss bo, but I know you are just having a little fun
Love, francis 😉
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Considering we've yet to win 3 consecutive Big East regular season games in the Wojo era, I'm not too worried about the above.
But, should we achieve that in the weak Big East this year, and we make a return to the Top 25, I'll be sure to give Wojo props and his due.
So what is this Big East win streak and a Top 10 ranking good for? Some props and his due seems a little light. Being this wrong I think calls for a donation in Wojo's name to the Blue & Gold Fund!
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This is great stuff! They keep getting better and better. Looks like everyone who has seen enough to judge might need some correcting of their prescription numbers ::)
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Spectacular bump, tower.
What a fun read.
I especially like the certainty of those who proclaimed Wojo an absolute bust, along with the conjecture about who should replace him.
Now, it's still too early to say he's an enormous success; the story is still being written. But those who declared with such certainty that he's a bad coach who has to go ... wowie wow wow!
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Bump.
The Congressional Record is a fine publication.
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I certainly hope we don't have to regret all these bumps in a few hours after being boatraced at Butler.
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Spectacular bump, tower.
What a fun read.
I especially like the certainty of those who proclaimed Wojo an absolute bust, along with the conjecture about who should replace him.
Now, it's still too early to say he's an enormous success; the story is still being written. But those who declared with such certainty that he's a bad coach who has to go ... wowie wow wow!
I've gotta find a poster who had Wojo fired in November and anointed the Duke coach in waiting 8 weeks later!
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Spectacular bump, tower.
What a fun read.
I especially like the certainty of those who proclaimed Wojo an absolute bust, along with the conjecture about who should replace him.
Now, it's still too early to say he's an enormous success; the story is still being written. But those who declared with such certainty that he's a bad coach who has to go ... wowie wow wow!
I am feeling pretty good about what I wrote in this thread. Proud to have voted against the war in Wojanistan.
Have crapped the bed on a few posts, so I will be humble going forward.
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Even if we lose to Butler, nothing changes relative to the lunacy of the first 5 pages of the thread.
My singular post stands.
Emotion of many posters is too high n irrational. Some could argue the rebuild took too long and maybe he didnt recruit to the level he should have early. But, personally, i thought Wojo coached his ass off in yr 3 and that team had no business in the NCAAs. Team of misfits with questionable toughness and divergent player agendas. Last year was a little disappointing as i thought either the Depaul game or the home Provi game gets us into the dance and we couldnt get out of second gear.
My only real criticism of Wojo has been his handling of Henry, i think he allowed Henry n in fact encouraged it, maybe trying to catch lightening in a bottle, to be an absolute ball hog and chucker at the expense of his teammates and team. While no where near great n not a tourney team, i think that team underperformed as Henry played out of the position that best fit the team and in a position that best fit his draft status and was allowed to be a chucker with no conscience despite the numbers.
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I certainly hope we don't have to regret all these bumps in a few hours after being boatraced at Butler.
That's the thing, though.
I think we're gonna win tonight. I think it as a fan, of course. But I objectively think we're the better team, we're playing better right now, we know how to win, and we're ready to finally get one at Hinkle (just as we were ready to finally win 4 big NC games, to win 3+ BE games in a row, etc).
But if I'm wrong -- and I certainly could be, given that several ranked teams get upset every night, and given that the better team doesn't always win, especially on the road -- I won't feel one iota outraged by one road loss during a long, otherwise successful season. Nor will I "regret" these bumps, which showed a pretty sizable chunk of our fan base throwing away the season just a few games into it.
If we fall tonight, plenty of Scoopers will lose their $hit. Wojo is horrible, this player or that is the worst at his position (by far!), and so on. I mean, one guy here spent about 3 pages ripping Wojo for a game-tying play that worked!
Hey, I understand it's how some fans deal with whatever personal demons they face, but it's nonetheless always interesting (for lack of better word).
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Congrats on applying to dental school for 32 straight years and finally breaking through!
Speaking of dental school....this BUMP piqued my interest, so I closed my eyes and blindly scrolled to a random old thread and clicked. The heading was “Coach Crean to appear at book signing in Mequon” and it was from 2006.
In that thread 4EverWarriors earned some huge points with me, not for his shtick, but with the consistency of his anti-Crean position. You won’t find him flip-flopping on da issues.... so, 4Ever goes....”Maybee I can be first in line. Oh, damn, I tink I have to get a root canal instead.” I burst out laughing.
You will never find 4Ever where-ing da flipfloppy sandils on FireExtendWojo Beach.
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Speaking of dental school....this BUMP piqued my interest, so I closed my eyes and blindly scrolled to a random old thread and clicked. The heading was “Coach Crean to appear at book signing in Mequon” and it was from 2006.
In that thread 4EverWarriors earned some huge points with me, not for his shtick, but with the consistency of his anti-Crean position. You won’t find him flip-flopping on da issues.... so, 4Ever goes....”Maybee I can be first in line. Oh, damn, I tink I have to get a root canal instead.” I burst out laughing.
You will never find 4Ever where-ing da flipfloppy sandils on FireExtendWojo Beach.
When 4ever talks...people listen. Da man ain’t got a “knee-jerk” bone in his body, except his sense of humor, which is where it belongs der eyn’a
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That's the thing, though.
I think we're gonna win tonight. I think it as a fan, of course. But I objectively think we're the better team, we're playing better right now, we know how to win, and we're ready to finally get one at Hinkle (just as we were ready to finally win 4 big NC games, to win 3+ BE games in a row, etc).
But if I'm wrong -- and I certainly could be, given that several ranked teams get upset every night, and given that the better team doesn't always win, especially on the road -- I won't feel one iota outraged by one road loss during a long, otherwise successful season. Nor will I "regret" these bumps, which showed a pretty sizable chunk of our fan base throwing away the season just a few games into it.
If we fall tonight, plenty of Scoopers will lose their $hit. Wojo is horrible, this player or that is the worst at his position (by far!), and so on. I mean, one guy here spent about 3 pages ripping Wojo for a game-tying play that worked!
Hey, I understand it's how some fans deal with whatever personal demons they face, but it's nonetheless always interesting (for lack of better word).
I am ok if we lose tonight. It is very unrealistic to think we win every road game. That said, if we do win this evening, I believe we will win the BE regular season title..
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I am ok if we lose tonight. It is very unrealistic to think we win every road game. That said, if we do win this evening, I believe we will win the BE regular season title..
Reasonable take.
As big an optimist as I am, I'm also realistic. I highly doubt we will go 17-1 in conference play this season. Losing at Butler wouldn't stun me, and it obviously wouldn't stun the oddsmakers, who don't even think it would be an upset.
But I truly think we're gonna win unless Butler really steps up their game (based on what I've seen recently) and we play quite poorly.
Xavier couldn't have played much better than they did for most of our last game, and we were quite awful, and yet the better team ultimately won. I think a similar scenario could take place tonight ... though I hope we just wax 'em and win by 20+!
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When 4ever talks...people listen.
We do. But we can't understand what he's saying!
(http://media.giphy.com/media/iGHbjYrUftITS/giphy.gif)
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Butler is not very good. However, Hinkle is really loud and they feed on their crowd energy.
Sort of like when Nova comes to Milwaukee the anticipation will be big, they will be looking to turn their season around, we now have a big target on our backs and have the potential to be that big win that all teams are looking for to add to a March resume
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Butler is not very good. However, Hinkle is really loud and they feed on their crowd energy.
Sort of like when Nova comes to Milwaukee the anticipation will be big, they will be looking to turn their season around, we now have a big target on our backs and have the potential to be that big win that all teams are looking for to add to a March resume
So how many stay home because of the cold? I'm arguing with myself right now on whether I go out to see Minnesota/Illinois tonight.
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My expectations at the beginning of the year were 21-10 (10-8 in the Big East) going into the conference tourney, punch our NCAA ticket, earn a 7 or 8 seed, maybe get a win, maybe not. Clear, significant improvement -- but nothing too dramatic. A step forward, not a big leap. Enjoy the season and look forward to something special in 2019-20.
The ceiling for this team now looks to be much higher. Finishing just 5-5 in the Big East would put us at 23-8 (12-6) going into the conference tournament. KenPom predicts a game better than that. And I suspect the metrics may undervalue this team. There is still room for improvement. A 3 or 4 seed (or even better) is now a realistic possibility.
Loving the season so far and couldn't be happier to be wrong.
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So how many stay home because of the cold? I'm arguing with myself right now on whether I go out to see Minnesota/Illinois tonight.
Or they are passed out from drinking all day in their dorm room?
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“I can't speak for others, but in my evaluation, we have enough evidence to say that Wojo is a "C-level" coach. ”
This is why heart cannot be evaluated. My first advisor at MU told me that I wasn’t going to get into dental school and should think of some other profession....33 years later...either the guy was a lazy knob or the best motivational speaker you’ll ever find, but I immediately fired him and found a different advisor
So Rocket Surgeon is actually a socket surgeon?
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When 4ever talks...people listen. Da man ain’t got a “knee-jerk” bone in his body, except his sense of humor, which is where it belongs der eyn’a
Ignore is a great function
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So how many stay home because of the cold? I'm arguing with myself right now on whether I go out to see Minnesota/Illinois tonight.
Had to go in, 66 degrees may keep some So Cal people at home, but braved it.
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Had to go in, 66 degrees may keep some So Cal people at home, but braved it.
What's the wind chill!
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We do. But we can't understand what he's saying!
(http://media.giphy.com/media/iGHbjYrUftITS/giphy.gif)
😂👍
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https://twitter.com/RobDauster/status/1090796117292449792
Check out Dauster's last line.
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He also tweeted:
"You're probably going to want to tune into the second half of Marquette-Butler. Markus Howard is having one of those nights. 19 already."
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Even if we lose to Butler, nothing changes relative to the lunacy of the first 5 pages of the thread.
My singular post stands.
Emotion of many posters is too high n irrational. Some could argue the rebuild took too long and maybe he didnt recruit to the level he should have early. But, personally, i thought Wojo coached his ass off in yr 3 and that team had no business in the NCAAs. Team of misfits with questionable toughness and divergent player agendas. Last year was a little disappointing as i thought either the Depaul game or the home Provi game gets us into the dance and we couldnt get out of second gear.
My only real criticism of Wojo has been his handling of Henry, i think he allowed Henry n in fact encouraged it, maybe trying to catch lightening in a bottle, to be an absolute ball hog and chucker at the expense of his teammates and team. While no where near great n not a tourney team, i think that team underperformed as Henry played out of the position that best fit the team and in a position that best fit his draft status and was allowed to be a chucker with no conscience despite the numbers.
I agree with this analysis.
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What's the wind chill!
65.8
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Ok, I was really concerned after the Indiana game. If viewed in light of last year's disappointment, then yes, it was cause for concern. However, if Indiana is viewed as we've laid an egg like that game every year I can remember, it was a fixable problem or as many say, "a teachable moment."
Morale of the story: It's a long season.
Just like many were ready to torch Wojo after Indiana, I wouldn't quite be ready to build the Wojo Annex to the McGuire Center either. We're back to where most of us want our Warriors to be, but the challenge now (and our coach knows this) is to sustain our success across multiple years. Coach has found the right mix of people to lead and has coached them very well this season.
But basketball is like business: "What have you done for me lately?" Either our coach sustains and builds on this success he's having or a heck of a lot more "Year 2 (Archie), Year 5 Wojo" streams will appear.
Incidentally, would Archie like to trade places with Wojo right now? Wojo: eight game winning streak, 10th rank team in the country, lots of newfound attention, talk of deep in the tournament, talk of as high as a 3 seed. Archie: Losers of their last seven games; 12-9 record; lost last night to ... get this... Rutgers; real concern that if the ship is not righted soon, going to be an NIT team, or less!
You betcha he would!
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I remember saying in a post( too lazy to look up) something to the effect of what wojo and the team does with the loss to st johnnies...well, I think we know now. We’ve ripped 8 in a row and guess who’s coming to town...yup! Time to give ema little home town medicine from our last loss. Careful however, Johnny has been on a little skid since and cannot be taken for granted, but I like our chances at #9 in a row
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Ok, I was really concerned after the Indiana game. If viewed in light of last year's disappointment, then yes, it was cause for concern. However, if Indiana is viewed as we've laid an egg like that game every year I can remember, it was a fixable problem or as many say, "a teachable moment."
Morale of the story: It's a long season.
Just like many were ready to torch Wojo after Indiana, I wouldn't quite be ready to build the Wojo Annex to the McGuire Center either. We're back to where most of us want our Warriors to be, but the challenge now (and our coach knows this) is to sustain our success across multiple years. Coach has found the right mix of people to lead and has coached them very well this season.
But basketball is like business: "What have you done for me lately?" Either our coach sustains and builds on this success he's having or a heck of a lot more "Year 2 (Archie), Year 5 Wojo" streams will appear.
Incidentally, would Archie like to trade places with Wojo right now? Wojo: eight game winning streak, 10th rank team in the country, lots of newfound attention, talk of deep in the tournament, talk of as high as a 3 seed. Archie: Losers of their last seven games; 12-9 record; lost last night to ... get this... Rutgers; real concern that if the ship is not righted soon, going to be an NIT team, or less!
You betcha he would!
Reasonable post, dg.
Although I have fun taking 20/20 hindsight looks back at some of these threads that tower bumped, I truly do understand why there was some doom and gloom after the Indiana blowout. After making the tourney in 2017, we took a little step backward last season and then, just a few games into this season, we get run out of the gym by a team that wasn't supposed to be better than ours. So I get it.
My problem was this:
There were a lot of folks on here who never gave Wojo a chance from Day 1. They were disappointed we didn't get Shaka, and thought that by hiring an assistant over a big-name guy, we were "settling." The fact that the assistant was a Dookie only fueled the prejudgment for some Scoopers. So Wojo started with 2 strikes in the eyes of many, and every time there was a real or perceived misstep he was ripped. Every single season, starting with the first, there were "Fire Wojo!" posts here. And after the Indiana game, it just gave the rippers another opportunity.
I happen to have always been in the "I like the Wojo hire" camp. I know it could have gone the other way. Heck, maybe if we lose to Louisville it would have; we'll never know. But I assure you that while I appreciate the way Wojo has rebuilt our program, I am not ready to build statues of him. And I have criticized him at times (I never liked having Heldt hedge out to half-court; I thought he played Derrick way too much; I disliked the way he treated a student reporter; etc.) Just because I think he's doing a fine job doesn't mean he is beyond criticism. In part, that's what fan boards are for.
Besides, as you say, sports is a "what have you done for us lately?" business. Getting a commitment from Torrence and being in on numerous other big-time recruits is a nice start to "lately." So is 19-3/8-1. What do you have for us next, Wojo?
I like to think that even some of Wojo's harshest critics will look at how the process has unfolded and will now be willing to climb on board the bandwagon. I like to think they realize that we -- like every other ranked team in the nation -- might lose a game or two we "shouldn't" without feeling the need to say our coach should be fired.
Hey, I know guys like Ners, who thinks he invented basketball, and willie, who somehow gets joy out of total joylessness, will never give Wojo a chance. They are lost causes.
Nevertheless, I am heartened by folks like you -- who are maybe still a tad skeptical but who are starting to let yourselves think that maybe, just maybe, Wojo can get 'er done.
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My problem was this:
There were a lot of folks on here who never gave Wojo a chance from Day 1. They were disappointed we didn't get Shaka, and thought that by hiring an assistant over a big-name guy, we were "settling." The fact that the assistant was a Dookie only fueled the prejudgment for some Scoopers. So Wojo started with 2 strikes in the eyes of many, and every time there was a real or perceived misstep he was ripped. Every single season, starting with the first, there were "Fire Wojo!" posts here. And after the Indiana game, it just gave the rippers another opportunity.
I believe that there were quite a few in this camp for exactly the reasons that you point out. They'll never admit it because of the success that Wojo is having this year, and the struggles that Shaka has had, but they're out there.
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If it were up to me, I'd of gone out and found the best version of Al McGuire out there today, whoever he or she is. Fortunately, it's not up to me and not sure today's world would tolerate a coach who mixed it up the way Al did. Heck, Al physically attacked a couple of his players... and all Bob Knight did was get fired for grabbing, mildly choking and pushing a kid. Or throwing a chair.
Hell, Al got two technical fouls in a National Championship game!
The reality is we hired Wojo five years ago. I know I fussed at times because the process was slower than I wanted it to be. I never questioned Wojo's coaching or recruiting ability but I also never expected it would take five years to get where we are. Then again, I'm not the one out there trying to rebuild a palace from the toxic waste dump the Hillbilly left.
Do I think we misfired on Henry? Hell yes, I do. He needed at least another year in college to refine a limited game and he needed to realize he wasn't at Rice Lake High School and the guys in the blue uniforms weren't from Spooner. They were from Philadelphia and they all had bad attitudes. Wojo probably would admit today he needed to sit Henry until Henry learned to be less selfish
But getting Henry into Marquette and allowing him some freedom on a bad team probably paved the way for some of our other higher profile recruits. It also gave us hope as a bad year progressed. That's the lasting legacy of Henry.
Since then, Wojo has grown with our team, like all of us do. I'm more impressed with him each day and if we can sustain his success, we really do have something here. No, for heaven's sake, don't start with the "Wojo is going to _______" threads!