2014-15 NFC North/NFL Thread

[ChicosBailBonds]

The best one is the conspiracy talks...that the NFL is helping Dallas.  I mean, that is clearly obvious for the past 18 19 years and all those Cowboys playoff victories.  All two of those playoff wins...and 5 total playoff games in 1819 years.  LOL.

You really can't make this stuff up.  





Edit....19 years

[ChicosBailBonds]

If Mike Peirera called it PI, I think it's PI.

I get to be on a conference call with Mike P on Tuesday.  He's a great guy, very smart.  I don't disagree with his take, though I think he hasn't commented on the earlier part of the play when there was a facemask because I don't think he has seen it....I just posted that video from the sideline camera.  I'm looking forward to his comments about that aspect of the play.



He also stated it isn't the reason Detroit lost the game.  I'm just amazed that so many people just assume that Detroit is going in for a TD there, when they haven't scored one since the first quarter.  Kreskins.  

[MU82]

The best one is the conspiracy talks...that the NFL is helping Dallas.  I mean, that is clearly obvious for the past 18 years and all those Cowboys playoff victories.  All one of those playoff wins...and 4 total playoff games in 18 years.  LOL.

You really can't make this stuff up.  

I love the conspiracy theorists, too. Like the NFL wanted Buffalo to go to 4 straight Super Bowls.

Chicos, I totally agreed with this post and the one you made a few minutes earlier. It must be a New Year!

[ChicosBailBonds]

I love the conspiracy theorists, too. Like the NFL wanted Buffalo to go to 4 straight Super Bowls.

Chicos, I totally agreed with this post and the one you made a few minutes early. It must be a New Year!

 

[MUSF]

I get to be on a conference call with Mike P on Tuesday.  He's a great guy, very smart.  I don't disagree with his take, though I think he hasn't commented on the earlier part of the play when there was a facemask because I don't think he has seen it....I just posted that video from the sideline camera.  I'm looking forward to his comments about that aspect of the play.

He also stated it isn't the reason Detroit lost the game.  I'm just amazed that so many people just assume that Detroit is going in for a TD there, when they haven't scored one since the first quarter.  Kreskins.  

The key difference between PI and the facemask is that PI was initially called and the facemask was not.  Calls get missed, but they didn't miss the PI yet chose to overturn it after it was announced.  They also failed to call Dez Bryant for his helmet off argument after the flag.  Really bad officiating in this one.  If it was just a simple missed call it would be much easier to swallow.  I doubt people like Mike Peirera, Peter King, Michael Strahan, Bill Simmons, Mike Rosenberg, Samuel L. Jackson, and many others would be making strong comments if it was just about a missed call.

You are absolutely correct that the call didn't cost them the game... but it played a pretty significant role.

BTW, I don't actually believe the conspiracy stuff.  My post with a link to the article about the head of officiating partying with the Cowboys was tongue in cheek.  I do think there is some "elite" franchise/"elite" QB bias floating around the NFL though.

[ChicosBailBonds]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/five-reasons-the-detroit-lions-can-t-complain-about-the-non-call-013921557.html

[ChicosBailBonds]

Maybe Raiola and Suh need to kick and step on a few more mofo's, hey?

[MerrittsMustache]

The key difference between PI and the facemask is that PI was initially called and the facemask was not.  Calls get missed, but they didn't miss the PI yet chose to overturn it after it was announced.  They also failed to call Dez Bryant for his helmet off argument after the flag.  Really bad officiating in this one.  If it was just a simple missed call it would be much easier to swallow.  I doubt people like Mike Peirera, Peter King, Michael Strahan, Bill Simmons, Mike Rosenberg, Samuel L. Jackson, and many others would be making strong comments if it was just about a missed call.

You are absolutely correct that the call didn't cost them the game... but it played a pretty significant role.

BTW, I don't actually believe the conspiracy stuff.  My post with a link to the article about the head of officiating partying with the Cowboys was tongue in cheek.  I do think there is some "elite" franchise/"elite" QB bias floating around the NFL though.

Hang on...Jules Winnfield had some strong comments about the call? Clearly, the refs f'd it up.

[hairy worthen]

I have a few comments and several questions for you.

1) I understand your frustration, I would be pissed off as well if I were a Lions fan.  However, can you explain how it COST Detroit the game?

Was Detroit not winning the entire game?
Was Detroit guaranteed to score on the drive?  If they only got a FG they are still only up 6?  Why would they be guaranteed to score a TD on that drive, if that is your argument, since they hadn't scored one since the first quarter?  Are they guaranteed to even get a FG with their kicking game?
Did the refs make Detroit punt on 4th and 1?
Did the refs make Detroit punt it 9 yards on a shank?
Did the refs make Detroit not stop Dallas after leading the whole game?
Did the refs make Detroit fumble it twice in the last 1:30 of the game?

Again, I understand your frustration, I'm just curious how it COST Detroit the game when they led the entire game and didn't put things away AND you have no idea what would happen next.  NONE.

2)  You do realize face guarding is not a foul in the NFL, correct?  Only college

3)  In my view, should have been offsetting penalties.  Clearly the receiver is facemasking the defensive player every bit as much as he was holding him.  Can't turn your head around if the receiver has your facemask held.



4)  Who do you think got the better of the calls in the first half?  I'm just curious.  Personally, I hate blaming things on the refs.  But nothing I hate even more than someone saying because of a call, it means 10 other things would have happened.  No one knows if Detroit scores or what happens next.


At any rate, Dallas played horrible.  Absolutely horrible in the first half.  Can't believe they won. If they play like that against Green Bay it will be a blowout.  

First off let’s be clear. Take off the blue and silver glasses for a minute. If the exact same thing happened to the Cowboys, you would be pissing and moaning to no end. 

I am well aware of the face guarding rule in the NFL. I also know that when a defender does not play the ball and makes contact with the receiver and interferes with the receiver, that it is pass interference. That call is made almost every time in the NFL.  I am not even going to mention Dez Bryant running onto the field without his helmet or the refs making the call and then picking up the flag way after the fact.

As far as the outcome after that play, yes you are technically correct.  We do not know what would have happened after that; hell a meteorite could have landed in the stadium as well if you want to play that game.  We can only work with the information available to us, and that was the Lions would have had the ball at the 30, momentum late in the 4th quarter, and up by 3. In that scenario, the Lions are very likely to win.

Good luck in Lambeau next week, should be a good game. Long range weather looks like temps in the teens.

[tower912]

Go ahead and mention Dez Bryant.   Let's enter into fantasy world and pretend the refs got the call right.   Can anyone say with a straight face that Dez Bryant should have gotten away with running onto the field to confront the officials?   Chicos?

[swoopem]

Another horrible call was when they called Levy for defensive holding when it was 3rd and 5 and the penalty got Dallas a first down (1st and goal). I'm not arguing that particular call, but on the same play there was clearly illegal hands to the face committed by the right tackle on the rushing D end. The refs miss that, gave Dallas a first down, then Dallas scores.

As far as the pass interfence call goes, I've never seen them announce a call and then wave it off. Usually they'll pickup the flag and announce that there isn't a penalty. This time it was backwards. 

The Lions got hosed.

[ChicosBailBonds]

First off let’s be clear. Take off the blue and silver glasses for a minute. If the exact same thing happened to the Cowboys, you would be pissing and moaning to no end.  

I am well aware of the face guarding rule in the NFL. I also know that when a defender does not play the ball and makes contact with the receiver and interferes with the receiver, that it is pass interference. That call is made almost every time in the NFL.  I am not even going to mention Dez Bryant running onto the field without his helmet or the refs making the call and then picking up the flag way after the fact.

As far as the outcome after that play, yes you are technically correct.  We do not know what would have happened after that; hell a meteorite could have landed in the stadium as well if you want to play that game.  We can only work with the information available to us, and that was the Lions would have had the ball at the 30, momentum late in the 4th quarter, and up by 3. In that scenario, the Lions are very likely to win.

Good luck in Lambeau next week, should be a good game. Long range weather looks like temps in the teens.

Yup, which I said I understand the anger.  I would be too.

You didn't answer any of my questions, how come?

3rd and 1 and you have the lead, and they go for a tough pass and they punt.  One would think you run it twice there to keep the drive alive.

Having the ball at the 30 yard line is the same as a meteorite striking....with a team that has scored all of 3 points the second half and not a touchdown since the first quarter?  More than likely, they kick a FG (if they make it), and Dallas is still down only 6 points.

[mu03eng]

Another horrible call was when they called Levy for defensive holding when it was 3rd and 5 and the penalty got Dallas a first down (1st and goal). I'm not arguing that particular call, but on the same play there was clearly illegal hands to the face committed by the right tackle on the rushing D end. The refs miss that, gave Dallas a first down, then Dallas scores.

As far as the pass interfence call goes, I've never seen them announce a call and then wave it off. Usually they'll pickup the flag and announce that there isn't a penalty. This time it was backwards. 

The Lions got hosed.

A lot of this has to do with the "all-star" crews they put on the field for the playoff games.  They put the "best" officials of each position together for a crew instead of sending the best crews into the playoffs.  The officiating mechanics broke down multiple times in the games this weekend.....I've never understood why the NFL does this.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Another horrible call was when they called Levy for defensive holding when it was 3rd and 5 and the penalty got Dallas a first down (1st and goal). I'm not arguing that particular call, but on the same play there was clearly illegal hands to the face committed by the right tackle on the rushing D end. The refs miss that, gave Dallas a first down, then Dallas scores.

As far as the pass interfence call goes, I've never seen them announce a call and then wave it off. Usually they'll pickup the flag and announce that there isn't a penalty. This time it was backwards. 

The Lions got hosed.

When Dallas drive stopped in the first half on a call where Cowboys are called for offensive pass interference and Mike P. says that was a bad call....did Dallas get hosed?  Why is it when Mike P. says a second half pass interference call is bad, he's right but in the first half he says a PI call is bad, that benefits the other team, that one doesn't seem to matter?  Can I make the same leap of faith and say Dallas would have scored there just as Detroit fans are making the same leap?  Kind of ironic.

Or does the hosing only work based on who is getting hosed or the time of the game?   I think it is a fair question.  No one seems to want to talk about the facemasking either, for whatever reason.

At any rate, I get why Detroit fans are upset.  I would be too.   I also would be furious as my coaching staff, my punter, my defense, and my offense in the second half that scored only 3 points.  Lots of opportunities. 

I expect Green Bay to win on Sunday.  That call yesterday was not the reason Detroit lost.  How Dallas won with how pathetic they played is mindboggling.  Detroit had every opportunity, and they blew it.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Go ahead and mention Dez Bryant.   Let's enter into fantasy world and pretend the refs got the call right.   Can anyone say with a straight face that Dez Bryant should have gotten away with running onto the field to confront the officials?   Chicos?

That call yesterday was not the reason Detroit lost.  How Dallas won with how pathetic they played is mindboggling.  Detroit had every opportunity, and they blew it.  3 points in the second half.  Three turnovers.  3rd and 1 and you run that play, then you don't go for it on 4th...then you punt it 9 yards.  Then you can't stop the Cowboys.  Then you fumble it twice.  Tons of opportunities.

[ChicosBailBonds]

A lot of this has to do with the "all-star" crews they put on the field for the playoff games.  They put the "best" officials of each position together for a crew instead of sending the best crews into the playoffs.  The officiating mechanics broke down multiple times in the games this weekend.....I've never understood why the NFL does this.

Nor do I.  Nor does Mike P.

The reason people are pissed is Morelli announced the call first.  They should have gotten together first, gone through what the refs saw, and then made the call.  Flags are picked up all the time in the NFL.  Sure, people would be ticked, but they're more ticked off because Morelli jumped the gun and announced it before conferring with his team.   The irony is, in 2009 with a Patriots playoff game, he did the same thing after announcing a penalty and then reversing it.  Apparently he is a premature announcing problem. 

[swoopem]

When Dallas drive stopped in the first half on a call where Cowboys are called for offensive pass interference and Mike P. says that was a bad call....did Dallas get hosed?  Why is it when Mike P. says a second half pass interference call is bad, he's right but in the first half he says a PI call is bad, that benefits the other team, that one doesn't seem to matter?  Can I make the same leap of faith and say Dallas would have scored there just as Detroit fans are making the same leap?  Kind of ironic.

Or does the hosing only work based on who is getting hosed or the time of the game?   I think it is a fair question.  No one seems to want to talk about the facemasking either, for whatever reason.

At any rate, I get why Detroit fans are upset.  I would be too.   I also would be furious as my coaching staff, my punter, my defense, and my offense in the second half that scored only 3 points.  Lots of opportunities. 

I expect Green Bay to win on Sunday.  That call yesterday was not the reason Detroit lost.  How Dallas won with how pathetic they played is mindboggling.  Detroit had every opportunity, and they blew it.

I see you avoided the main part of my post. Can I make a leap of faith that you agree with me and there was illegal hands to the face?

[GGGG]

A lot of this has to do with the "all-star" crews they put on the field for the playoff games.  They put the "best" officials of each position together for a crew instead of sending the best crews into the playoffs.  The officiating mechanics broke down multiple times in the games this weekend.....I've never understood why the NFL does this.

In 2003, they stopped using "all-stars," and started assigning the best overall crews to the games.

http://a.espncdn.com/nfl/columns/clayton_john/1529469.html

(This isn't dated, but it is from 2003.)  Notice that the head of officials back then was Mike Pereira who specifically mentioned yesterday that this could have been a problem.

They switched courses a few years later due to some controversy in previous playoffs.  

[GGGG]

That call yesterday was not the reason Detroit lost.  How Dallas won with how pathetic they played is mindboggling.  Detroit had every opportunity, and they blew it.  3 points in the second half.  Three turnovers.  3rd and 1 and you run that play, then you don't go for it on 4th...then you punt it 9 yards.  Then you can't stop the Cowboys.  Then you fumble it twice.  Tons of opportunities.

I do agree with this.  I mean that's Detroit however.  That's why Stafford is 0-17 on the road versus winning teams.  They couldn't execute on either side of the ball when it truly mattered. 

[Spotcheck Billy]

Most of the first three quarters, I thought the Cowboys had been hurt by questionable calls. Twice, after particularly bad calls, the Cowboys responded with big plays to overcome the calls.

I absolutely thought the ref blew it by picking up that flag on what I thought was pass interference. Detroit, however, had PLENTY of chances to overcome that call --including the very next play, when Caldwell could have showed some stones and played to win and gone for it on 4th down ... and instead sent in his punter, who promptly shanked one.

Officials rarely are The Reason a team loses a game, regardless of sport. Has it happened in the history of sports? Probably. But teams get good calls in games and teams get bad calls. Over my decades as an observer, I have found that the good teams overcome the bad calls while the bad teams cry about being victims.

see Golden Tate's TD catch against GB in Seattle a few years ago during the Refs' strike

[mu03eng]

In 2003, they stopped using "all-stars," and started assigning the best overall crews to the games.

http://a.espncdn.com/nfl/columns/clayton_john/1529469.html

(This isn't dated, but it is from 2003.)  Notice that the head of officials back then was Mike Pereira who specifically mentioned yesterday that this could have been a problem.

They switched courses a few years later due to some controversy in previous playoffs.  

Maybe I misheard than because I swore Mike P said they were all-star crews.

[GGGG]

Maybe I misheard than because I swore Mike P said they were all-star crews.

My last sentence was unclear...they switched *back* to all star crews a few years later.

[mu03eng]

My last sentence was unclear...they switched *back* to all star crews a few years later.

Oh good, here I thought I was more crazy than normal.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I see you avoided the main part of my post. Can I make a leap of faith that you agree with me and there was illegal hands to the face?

No.

In my view, there was a defensive hold on the Cowboys....there was illegal hands to the face by the Lions.  Offsetting penalties.

There is no rule against face guarding in the NFL, which it seems you are trying to say is illegal hands to the face. Illegal hands to the face requires actually touching the facemask, which is what the Lions player did, but not the Cowboys player.  Now, you are supposed to "play the ball", of course it is also hard to turn your head and play the ball when the Lions player has your facemask in his hands.

[swoopem]

You're confused. I said there was an illegal hands to the face penalty on the right tackle against the defensive end. The Detroit guy had him beat and the Dallas guy, clear as day, was blocking him via his facemask, hence why there should have been a penalty. I don't know how to make GIFFS, but I'm sure there is one out there showing this. At best it should have been offset calls and replay 3rd and 5. Instead Dallas gets an automatic 1st down (and goal) and they score.