2014-15 NFC North/NFL Thread

[4everwarriors]

AR in a landslide.

[Benny B]

How come you only listed ones that were close? Not to mention that Houston plays on a much, much better defense than Watt if you look at the players around him. Houston has only 1 other above average player on 'D'. I'll get you started:

Tackles for loss - 29-23 Watt
QB Hits - 43 - 8 Watt
1st player in NFL history with 20 sacks two years in a row
Led all defensive players in touchdowns
First player in NFL history to score via a safety, pick-six, fumble return and a receiving TD in the same season

If you compare Watts individual stats with a composite of the best defensive linemen in the entire league - he still comes out ahead of them all.

There's something about some of these defensive stats in football that seems tantamount to judging baseball pitchers by their W/L record or position players by the number of runs they scored.

If your season stats are 1 tackle for a loss (or sack), 1 fumble recovery, 1 interception and 1 reception, you're a pretty crappy player.  The fact that all four of your stats led to a score doesn't make you a better player.  The fact that you're also the first in NFL history to do something doesn't make you a better player.

William "The Fridge" Perry 1985: 1 reception, 1 receiving TD; 5 rushing attempts, 2 rushing TDs; 2nd most fumble return yardage in the league.  Those are great, but it speaks nothing to him being an elite defender.

[hairy worthen]

Totally agree with this.

I really like Watt, but it shouldn't even be particularly close. I mean, we got many opportunities to see first-hand the difference in the Packers with and without Rodgers -- the best player in the league at the most important position on the field.

The name of the award is what makes Rodgers an easy winner to me. What Watt did this year was incredible and worthy of defensive player of the year, but a  most valuable player should be a player that can get their team in the playoffs.  

[Benny B]

Didn't make the playoffs and finished 9-7 in a dog division.  Exactly 4 of their wins are against the combined 5-27 record of Jacksonville and Tennessee.  I love JJ but winning is the name of the game.  Rodgers' 'Willis Reed' performance in a 'playoff game' on the tundra sealed the deal.  Had the Packers lost maybe an argument for someone else could be made.   Romo is also worthy but will finish 3rd in the voting.

By the way, Dallas is playing great football.  Assuming they win against the Lions, they'll be a formidable opponent in two weeks.

I'd rather play Dallas than Detroit.

Dallas has an X-factor.  And by "X" I mean someone who will inexplicably, singlehandedly lead your team to defeat without warning.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/e/84dcnd8XEL8" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/e/84dcnd8XEL8</a>

[hairy worthen]

I'd rather play Dallas than Detroit.

Dallas has an X-factor.  And by "X" I mean someone who will inexplicably, singlehandedly lead your team to defeat without warning.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/e/84dcnd8XEL8" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/e/84dcnd8XEL8</a>

Except if Detroit beat Dallas, you wouldn't be playing Detroit, you would be playing Carolina/Arizona, which to me is much easier.  Plus Detroit has a better chance of beating Seattle albeit slim.

[GGGG]

I'd rather play Dallas than Detroit.

But GB wouldn't play Detroit.  I would rather play Carolina or Arizona than Dallas.

[jsglow]

Suh, IMHO, gets a suspension. The NFL is very diligent, as they should be, in protectin' their product, i.e., superstar quarterbacks.

I excused the first foot as accidental.  But Suh knew who was under him and purposefully stepped on Rodgers with the full weight of his left foot even lingering while he took his right foot off the ground.  It was exactly the opposite of what a guy who had accidentally stepped on another would naturally do which would be to attempt to take weight off the inflicting foot and hop forward.  And we're not talking about some 3rd string special teams guy.  Rodgers is arguably the league's #1 meal ticket.  The punishment should be severe.

I also give the Packers credit for maintaining their cool both during the game and in the presser afterwards.  TJ Lang and the rest of the O-line wanted to kick the sh*t out of Suh in the conversation that followed the next play.  Rodgers downplayed it by saying that they'll look at the film.  Professional sports is supposed to be a brotherhood.  Look at the classy way Peppers moved seamlessly from Chicago to Green Bay.  Suh has no friends anywhere in the league.  

[GGGG]

Notice that Suh wasn't on the field for the Packers' last drive?

[jsglow]

Notice that Suh wasn't on the field for the Packers' last drive?

Yep.  I think Caldwell though it might get out of hand if he was.  Probably best for all concerned.

[MU B2002]

Has there been any definitive statements on Ted Phillips being relived of football duties?  I have seen conflicting reports.

[jsglow]

Has there been any definitive statements on Ted Phillips being relived of football duties?  I have seen conflicting reports.

No.  Talk is that he's moving to the 'business side'.  Bears' presser at 4p.  We'll see.

[brandx]

Except if Detroit beat Dallas, you wouldn't be playing Detroit, you would be playing Carolina/Arizona, which to me is much easier.  Plus Detroit has a better chance of beating Seattle albeit slim.

How's that?

Stafford has NEVER beaten a winning team on the road. I agree Romo could go all Cutler on us and hand Detroit the game, but then win in Seattle? Uh-huh.

[brandx]

I excused the first foot as accidental.  But Suh knew who was under him and purposefully stepped on Rodgers with the full weight of his left foot even lingering while he took his right foot off the ground.  It was exactly the opposite of what a guy who had accidentally stepped on another would naturally do which would be to attempt to take weight off the inflicting foot and hop forward.  And we're not talking about some 3rd string special teams guy.  Rodgers is arguably the league's #1 meal ticket.  The punishment should be severe.

I also give the Packers credit for maintaining their cool both during the game and in the presser afterwards.  TJ Lang and the rest of the O-line wanted to kick the sh*t out of Suh in the conversation that followed the next play.  Rodgers downplayed it by saying that they'll look at the film.  Professional sports is supposed to be a brotherhood.  Look at the classy way Peppers moved seamlessly from Chicago to Green Bay.  Suh has no friends anywhere in the league.  

that's what I noticed right away. If you  step on something/someone by accident, the first thing you do, is lift the foot. He did the exact opposite to make sure his full weight was on Aaron's ankle.

With his history (despite the deniers in this thread that he's never done this sort of thing before), he should be suspended the rest of the year whether it amounts to one game or two.

[MerrittsMustache]

How come you only listed ones that were close? Not to mention that Houston plays on a much, much better defense than Watt if you look at the players around him. Houston has only 1 other above average player on 'D'. I'll get you started:

Tackles for loss - 29-23 Watt A close number with Watt slightly ahead
QB Hits - 43 - 8 Watt Incorrect: 41-25 Watt
1st player in NFL history with 20 sacks two years in a row Irrelevant
Led all defensive players in touchdowns Irrelevant
First player in NFL history to score via a safety, pick-six, fumble return and a receiving TD in the same season Nice stat. Not sure it means much, but I'll allow it

Anyway, as I said previously...Funny thing about Watt's "MVP-caliber" season is that Justin Houston's was nearly as good yet you hear nothing about him.

[MU B2002]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000451443/article/nfl-suspends-ndamukong-suh-for-one-game?campaign=Twitter_atl


My bad.

[brandx]

Anyway, as I said previously...Funny thing about Watt's "MVP-caliber" season is that Justin Houston's was nearly as good yet you hear nothing about him.

It's easy to look at Watt's dominance at his position. But what would it look like if you compared it to other positions. What if Watt's statistical dominance at his position were extrapolated out to other positions?


• Start  by translating those numbers into quarterback play. Five thousand yards was once the all-time benchmark for passers. Dan Marino was the first player to cross that barrier, back in 1984, and it wasn't until 2008 that somebody did it again (Drew Brees). Now the mark has been broken eight times by five different quarterbacks, including at least one player eclipsing it each of the past three seasons.

If we assume that 5,000 yards represents a fair representation of the "best of the best," what would Watt be doing right now in quarterback terms? Based on the level of dominance over his 3-4 defensive end peers, he would be passing for a 7,100-yard season. If we translated it to touchdown passes, he would be throwing more than 70.

• How about running backs? Again, 2,000 yards is the great benchmark for running backs. That barrier has been surpassed just seven times in NFL history. If we assume that as our benchmark, then Watt would be rushing for 2,840 yards in a season.

• No receiver has ever broken 2,000 receiving yards in a season. Calvin Johnson came the closest, with 1,964 in 2012, but 16 players have broken the 1,600-yard mark. If we use that as our benchmark, then Watt's dominance represents a 2,272-yard receiving season, not just crossing into uncharted territory, but smashing right through the barrier and beyond.


Neither here nor there - but just representative of his total dominance as a defensive lineman. Houston has one outstanding stat - sacks.

[hairy worthen]

How's that?

Stafford has NEVER beaten a winning team on the road. I agree Romo could go all Cutler on us and hand Detroit the game, but then win in Seattle? Uh-huh.

Wait, I didn't say Detroit would beat Dallas. All I'm saying is, I would rather play Carolina/arizona than Dallas. In order for that to happen Detroit would have to beat Dallas. And yes, I think Detroit would have a better chance to beat Seattle than would carolina/arizona

[MerrittsMustache]

It's easy to look at Watt's dominance at his position. But what would it look like if you compared it to other positions. What if Watt's statistical dominance at his position were extrapolated out to other positions?


• Start  by translating those numbers into quarterback play. Five thousand yards was once the all-time benchmark for passers. Dan Marino was the first player to cross that barrier, back in 1984, and it wasn't until 2008 that somebody did it again (Drew Brees). Now the mark has been broken eight times by five different quarterbacks, including at least one player eclipsing it each of the past three seasons.

If we assume that 5,000 yards represents a fair representation of the "best of the best," what would Watt be doing right now in quarterback terms? Based on the level of dominance over his 3-4 defensive end peers, he would be passing for a 7,100-yard season. If we translated it to touchdown passes, he would be throwing more than 70.

• How about running backs? Again, 2,000 yards is the great benchmark for running backs. That barrier has been surpassed just seven times in NFL history. If we assume that as our benchmark, then Watt would be rushing for 2,840 yards in a season.

• No receiver has ever broken 2,000 receiving yards in a season. Calvin Johnson came the closest, with 1,964 in 2012, but 16 players have broken the 1,600-yard mark. If we use that as our benchmark, then Watt's dominance represents a 2,272-yard receiving season, not just crossing into uncharted territory, but smashing right through the barrier and beyond.


Neither here nor there - but just representative of his total dominance as a defensive lineman. Houston has one outstanding stat - sacks.

How are you coming up with these extrapolations? Not necessarily questioning them, just wondering what stats are being used and how.

[Benny B]

But GB wouldn't play Detroit.  I would rather play Carolina or Arizona than Dallas.

My bad.  I meant to say, I would rather play Dallas than face the possibility of playing Detroit again.

[Benny B]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000451443/article/nfl-suspends-ndamukong-suh-for-one-game?campaign=Twitter_atl


My bad.

Lloyd Christmas finds no fault with what you said earlier.

[wadesworld]

I think Dallas wins this game, but if Detroit is going to pull at upset in the playoffs, this is a scenario that I can see happening.

Dallas plays indoors and doesn't have a great home field advantage.  Stafford and Detroit like the indoors as well.  Dallas is a great run team, and despite yesterday, Detroit usually does a great job against the run.

Keep it close and force Romo to throw the ball?  Well it wouldn't be the biggest upset in the world if he throws a couple picks and Detroit manages to pull this out.

Agreed.  To be honest, I think Detroit is the most likely team to beat Seattle in the NFC.  Teams that can stop the run have a chance to beat Seattle.  Packers don't, Detroit does.  I'm hoping Detroit wins against Dallas (they could) and then gets a shot at Seattle, because Carolina won't and Atlanta won't without a QB, and the Packers aren't winning in Seattle.

[Benny B]

This.

Suh will be suspended, and it will come before 5:00pm today.  The NFL is balancing two considerations in consideration that it is a playoff week:

1) They want to thoroughly investigate the matter.
2) They want to give the Lions as much advance notice as possible (i.e. almost a week to prepare if a suspension is handed down).

"Derrrr, gee Benny.... how can you thoroughly investigate when you're suspending the guy less than 24 hours later."

Because Suh and the Lions will undoubtedly appeal, giving the NFL the ability to continue its investigation during the appeal - not to mention give the Lions and Suh a full opportunity to make their case - and if the suspension is upheld - even if that decision is handed down Friday afternoon -  the NFL can take the position (if necessary) that the suspension was announced on Monday afternoon and the Lions should have prepared accordingly.

NM... looks like I was ten minutes late to the party.

[brandx]

How are you coming up with these extrapolations? Not necessarily questioning them, just wondering what stats are being used and how.

They're just silly stats. Basically, it takes Watt's numbers compared to the next best DE and then at the other positions estimates what it would take to keep the same ratio of dominance.

[brandx]

AR in a landslide.

+1000


2) Romo; 3) Brady; 4) Murray; 5) Watt

[jsglow]

that's what I noticed right away. If you  step on something/someone by accident, the first thing you do, is lift the foot. He did the exact opposite to make sure his full weight was on Aaron's ankle.

With his history (despite the deniers in this thread that he's never done this sort of thing before), he should be suspended the rest of the year whether it amounts to one game or two.

And here's the quote directly from the league:

In his letter to Suh, Hanks noted, “You did not respond in the manner of someone who had lost his
balance and accidentally contacted another player who was lying on the ground. This illegal contact,
specifically the second step and push off with your left foot, clearly could have been avoided.” Hanks
further noted “you unnecessarily stepped on your opponent’s unprotected leg as he lay on the ground
unable to protect himself.”

The a-hole thought he could get away with it.  Anyone who says it was an accident is simply lying to themselves.  Good for the league.