2014-15 NFC North/NFL Thread

[g0lden3agle]

Read the last line in merrits rant, not that hard to figure out.

"It's amazing that whenever someone makes a comment about Cutler that isn't completely, overwhelmingly negative, the football stupids come out in force. "

It's possible to critique the guy without all the hyperbole.  You pretty much prove MM's point.

[brandx]

First of all, Cutler has 19 TDs (18 pass, 1 rush) and 15 TOs (10 INT, 5 fumbles lost). Those are obvious awful numbers but, even so, 19 > 15.

Ignorant, blindly-hating fans are going to blame Jay no matter what. He's the scapegoat and it's easy to pile on him. As I stated previously, Cutler didn't play well last night. No one on the Bears did. That said, when the D can't stop anybody or even even figure out what coverage they're supposed to be in while the offense is painfully predictable, and DBs know exactly what routes are being run, there's not much that a QB can do. Even St. Aaron would struggle in the offense that the Bears are currently running. That said, Cutler does force throws, make bad reads, hold the ball too long in the pocket and too often plays dumb, careless football. Combine that with a horrible scheme and this Bears' team is the result.

It's amazing that whenever someone makes a comment about Cutler that isn't completely, overwhelmingly negative, the football stupids come out in force.

You wear the same blinders as Emery and Trestman. In eight years, the guy has made one Pro Bowl and his stats that year were utterly laughable - 25 TDs and 18 Ints despite getting sacked only 11 times the entire season. . Hardly Pro bowl numbers.

The guy is a borderline top-20 QB in the NFL. He should NOT be paid like a top-3 guy.

And that is not even the worst part. We know Jay sucks on the football field. The bigger problem is that he is a leader in the locker room. If that won't destroy a team (and it obviously has), nothing will.

[MerrittsMustache]

You wear the same blinders as Emery and Trestman. In eight years, the guy has made one Pro Bowl and his stats that year were utterly laughable - 25 TDs and 18 Ints despite getting sacked only 11 times the entire season. . Hardly Pro bowl numbers.

The guy is a borderline top-20 QB in the NFL. He should NOT be paid like a top-3 guy.

And that is not even the worst part. We know Jay sucks on the football field. The bigger problem is that he is a leader in the locker room. If that won't destroy a team (and it obviously has), nothing will.

I have never called Cutler "elite" like Emery did. I have never said that he should be paid like a top 3 guy. I have never said anything about his Pro Bowl credentials. I have never said that I feel he's a great leader.

I have said that he's not nearly as bad as many people make him out to be. I've said that he's careless with the football too often. I've said that the Bears didn't really have any better options at QB after last season. I acknowledged Ammo's strong point when he said that the Bears could have franchised Cutler instead of signing him for big, guaranteed money. Guess I should get some new blinders. Mine aren't working very well.

[hairy worthen]

"It's amazing that whenever someone makes a comment about Cutler that isn't completely, overwhelmingly negative, the football stupids come out in force. "

It's possible to critique the guy without all the hyperbole.  You pretty much prove MM's point.

What the hell are you talking about?

[hairy worthen]

How so? Please enlighten us.

I assume it's because I said that Cutler played poorly but his 2 INTs were both flukish tipped balls, which somehow makes me a Cutler apologist in the minds of the football brilliant like yourself.

You are the one who first used the term “football stupids” not me. So it is ok for you to call people football stupid because they disagree with you but you get your panties in a bunch when someone does it back

Someone basically said Cutler sucked and then gave specific reasons why. Your response was that the interceptions were not Cutlers fault because they were tipped. Not exactly football brilliance. Tipped balls are not a fluke, they are usually on the qb.

[wadesworld]

First of all, Cutler has 19 TDs (18 pass, 1 rush) and 15 TOs (10 INT, 5 fumbles lost). Those are obvious awful numbers but, even so, 19 > 15.

Ignorant, blindly-hating fans are going to blame Jay no matter what. He's the scapegoat and it's easy to pile on him. As I stated previously, Cutler didn't play well last night. No one on the Bears did. That said, when the D can't stop anybody or even even figure out what coverage they're supposed to be in while the offense is painfully predictable, and DBs know exactly what routes are being run, there's not much that a QB can do. Even St. Aaron would struggle in the offense that the Bears are currently running. That said, Cutler does force throws, make bad reads, hold the ball too long in the pocket and too often plays dumb, careless football. Combine that with a horrible scheme and this Bears' team is the result.

It's amazing that whenever someone makes a comment about Cutler that isn't completely, overwhelmingly negative, the football stupids come out in force.

espn.com's stats on him shows 18 TD passes, 10 interceptions, 1 rushing touchdown, and 10 fumbles.  Maybe they are showing total fumbles and not fumbles lost and that's where I'm misreading it.

The point is, either Cutler is the most unlucky quarterback in the history of the NFL (what you and many Bears fans apparently think) to turn the ball over the absurd amount of times he does, or the fact that he has absolutely terrible mechanics, terrible footwork, and terrible decision making cause him to turn the ball over way too much (what I and many football fans think).  I guess when I watch NFL quarterbacks who value the football they typically are a lot more fundamentally sound and don't throw into double coverage nearly as much as Jay does.  When quarterbacks do throw into double coverage, sometimes the ball gets tipped and another player picks it off.  You call that bad luck, I call it a stupid decision to throw it into double coverage.  When a quarterback is still shuffling his feet rather than setting them and stepping into the ball and the trajectory of the pass is lower than it would be otherwise and gets tipped at the line and picked off, you call it bad luck while I call it poor mechanics.  I guess that's the difference and I'm an idiot who blindly bashes the guy.  So be it, the point is, bad luck and all, Jay Cutler turns the ball over way, way too much.

http://vimeo.com/111183624

I encourage you to go here and let me know how many of these 22 interceptions in 11 games against the Packers going into last night's game are bad luck/not Jay's fault. http://vimeo.com/111183624

[MerrittsMustache]

espn.com's stats on him shows 18 TD passes, 10 interceptions, 1 rushing touchdown, and 10 fumbles.  Maybe they are showing total fumbles and not fumbles lost and that's where I'm misreading it.

The point is, either Cutler is the most unlucky quarterback in the history of the NFL (what you and many Bears fans apparently think) to turn the ball over the absurd amount of times he does, or the fact that he has absolutely terrible mechanics, terrible footwork, and terrible decision making cause him to turn the ball over way too much (what I and many football fans think).  I guess when I watch NFL quarterbacks who value the football they typically are a lot more fundamentally sound and don't throw into double coverage nearly as much as Jay does.  When quarterbacks do throw into double coverage, sometimes the ball gets tipped and another player picks it off.  You call that bad luck, I call it a stupid decision to throw it into double coverage.  When a quarterback is still shuffling his feet rather than setting them and stepping into the ball and the trajectory of the pass is lower than it would be otherwise and gets tipped at the line and picked off, you call it bad luck while I call it poor mechanics.  I guess that's the difference and I'm an idiot who blindly bashes the guy.  So be it, the point is, bad luck and all, Jay Cutler turns the ball over way, way too much.

http://vimeo.com/111183624

I encourage you to go here and let me know how many of these 22 interceptions in 11 games against the Packers going into last night's game are bad luck/not Jay's fault. http://vimeo.com/111183624

When did I say that Cutler was an unlucky QB? When did I say that Cutler's INTs are rarely his fault? When did I say that he doesn't turn the ball over too much? When did I say that Cutler has good mechanics? When did I say it's a good decision to throw into double coverage?

I encourage you to go through this thread and let me know.

[MerrittsMustache]

You are the one who first used the term “football stupids” not me. So it is ok for you to call people football stupid because they disagree with you but you get your panties in a bunch when someone does it back

Someone basically said Cutler sucked and then gave specific reasons why. Your response was that the interceptions were not Cutlers fault because they were tipped. Not exactly football brilliance. Tipped balls are not a fluke, they are usually on the qb.

The difference is that I actually know what I'm talking about and don't just spout off things like "Cutler sucks because he had 3 TOs and almost had 2 more!" I stated that Cutler's 2 INTs were flukish plays. Despite near flawless mechanics, 6-foot-7 Julius Peppers got the last digit of his finger on a pass and that was just enough to allow Hyde to step in and pick it off. It wasn't poor mechanics. It wasn't a bad read. It wasn't a poor throw. It was a good play by GB and an unfortunate break for the Bears. If Cutler used poor mechanics and fired that pass sidearm, Peppers bats it straight down into the ground and it's 3rd down.

Believe me, Cutler has thrown plenty of awful INTs and had plenty of "sucky" plays but when someone calls out a play that was neither to use as evidence that Cutler sucked last night, it's football stupid, or at least football ignorant. It would be similar to me praising Rodgers' ability to throw the deep ball and then citing his 56-yard TD pass to Lacy as evidence.

[wadesworld]

When did I say that Cutler was an unlucky QB? When did I say that Cutler's INTs are rarely his fault? When did I say that he doesn't turn the ball over too much? When did I say that Cutler has good mechanics? When did I say it's a good decision to throw into double coverage?

I encourage you to go through this thread and let me know.

Well, when you quote my post and then start your argument with, "Ignorant, blindly-hating fans are going to blame Jay no matter what," and end it with, "It's amazing that whenever someone makes a comment about Cutler that isn't completely, overwhelmingly negative, the football stupids come out in force," it would certainly seem to suggest that you don't agree with what I'm saying.  Maybe my reading comprehension and coming to conclusions without things being spelled out for me is just that awful though, what do I know?

[hairy worthen]

The difference is that I actually know what I'm talking about and don't just spout off things like "Cutler sucks because he had 3 TOs and almost had 2 more!" I stated that Cutler's 2 INTs were flukish plays. Despite near flawless mechanics, 6-foot-7 Julius Peppers got the last digit of his finger on a pass and that was just enough to allow Hyde to step in and pick it off. It wasn't poor mechanics. It wasn't a bad read. It wasn't a poor throw. It was a good play by GB and an unfortunate break for the Bears. If Cutler used poor mechanics and fired that pass sidearm, Peppers bats it straight down into the ground and it's 3rd down.

Believe me, Cutler has thrown plenty of awful INTs and had plenty of "sucky" plays but when someone calls out a play that was neither to use as evidence that Cutler sucked last night, it's football stupid, or at least football ignorant. It would be similar to me praising Rodgers' ability to throw the deep ball and then citing his 56-yard TD pass to Lacy as evidence.

For the record I do not think you are a stupid football fan. I do think that at times you see things through blue and orange glasses. I disagree with you that the picks were flukish, they were interceptions and cutler has to own up to them, thats part of his problem.

[MerrittsMustache]

Well, when you quote my post and then start your argument with, "Ignorant, blindly-hating fans are going to blame Jay no matter what," and end it with, "It's amazing that whenever someone makes a comment about Cutler that isn't completely, overwhelmingly negative, the football stupids come out in force," it would certainly seem to suggest that you don't agree with what I'm saying.  Maybe my reading comprehension and coming to conclusions without things being spelled out for me is just that awful though, what do I know?

Ding! Ding! Ding! 

[wadesworld]

Ding! Ding! Ding! 

Fair enough, then we agree on everything I said and I just can't read.  Done deal.

[JWags85]

It also doesn't help that Packers fans have the privilege of watching an all-time great and surefire HOF QB in Rodgers, and thus comparing Cutler to him makes for easy point and laugh comparisons.  If you threw Cutler in the AFC North, for example, suddenly its not so glaring.

[g0lden3agle]

What the hell are you talking about?

I read the last line of MM's "rant", and gave further explanation.  what the hell are YOU talking about?

[hairy worthen]

I read the last line of MM's "rant", and gave further explanation.  what the hell are YOU talking about?

Ok thank you for being the conscience of the thread (albeit very selective.)

[g0lden3agle]

Ok thank you for being the conscience of the thread (albeit very selective.)

And thank you for fulfilling my troll intake for the day

[jesmu84]

Cutler is a top 15-20 QB in the NFL. At his absolute best, he's top 10. (We all agree?) Based on supply/demand, the Bears were in a tough spot with Cutler this off-season and chose a long term (fair-market) deal instead of franchising him. (Still on the same page?) Someone could do the math and compare Cutler's cap hit in this contract vs. a couple seasons of franchising him.  Cutler has been bad from the second half of last season through today (Still good?). Cutler is clearly not a good enough QB to make up for deficiencies on an NFL team. (Yes?) The Bears are a bad team whether or not Cutler is the QB here. (Ok?) And that probably starts from at least Trestman on down, though you could make an argument for Emery or upper-level execs - I'm looking at you, Ted Philips. (Sound reasonable?)

I've made no excuses for Cutler in the preceding paragraph. I have said he's bad. I've said he has the capability to be good. I've said he cannot carry/make up for problems on a team. But the Bears are bad all over the field and on the sideline as well.

[hairy worthen]

Cutler is a top 15-20 QB in the NFL. At his absolute best, he's top 10. (We all agree?) Based on supply/demand, the Bears were in a tough spot with Cutler this off-season and chose a long term (fair-market) deal instead of franchising him. (Still on the same page?) Someone could do the math and compare Cutler's cap hit in this contract vs. a couple seasons of franchising him.  Cutler has been bad from the second half of last season through today (Still good?). Cutler is clearly not a good enough QB to make up for deficiencies on an NFL team. (Yes?) The Bears are a bad team whether or not Cutler is the QB here. (Ok?) And that probably starts from at least Trestman on down, though you could make an argument for Emery or upper-level execs - I'm looking at you, Ted Philips. (Sound reasonable?)

I've made no excuses for Cutler in the preceding paragraph. I have said he's bad. I've said he has the capability to be good. I've said he cannot carry/make up for problems on a team. But the Bears are bad all over the field and on the sideline as well.

I agree with all of that, my gripe are those who treat cutler like a Teflon god that can do no wrong, (some to different degrees).  The bear defense is horrible no doubt but how does that change how cutler has played?

[jesmu84]

I agree with all of that, my gripe are those who treat cutler like a Teflon god that can do no wrong, (some to different degrees).

I think you'll find most rational/realistic fans won't treat Cutler that way.

It does become annoying when Cutler is pointed at as the sole reason the Bears stink. Because everyone should be able to admit that isn't the case at all. No, he isn't helping the situation and, yes, he is making it worse. But he isn't the only reason.

[hairy worthen]

I think you'll find most rational/realistic fans won't treat Cutler that way.

It does become annoying when Cutler is pointed at as the sole reason the Bears stink. Because everyone should be able to admit that isn't the case at all. No, he isn't helping the situation and, yes, he is making it worse. But he isn't the only reason.

Someone has to be the scapegoat and cutler is an easy target
 you are correct,he is not the main reason they are losing but he is contributing to the suckiness

[jesmu84]

Someone has to be the scapegoat and cutler is an easy target
 you are correct,he is not the main reason they are losing but he is contributing to the suckiness

See? No blinders, no idiocy, just agreement on logical statements.

[hairy worthen]

See? No blinders, no idiocy, just agreement on logical statements.

Correct, but everyone is not like you

[MU B2002]

I agree with all of that, my gripe are those who treat cutler like a Teflon god that can do no wrong, (some to different degrees). 

Who here has made any of the above claims?

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Who here has made any of the above claims?

He's gonna say me but I have consistsntly said there was no one better who was available.

[MU B2002]

Question: Any indication if Peterson face a conduct violation suspension? (Asking for a friend.)