2014-15 NFC North/NFL Thread

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Bears are 1.5 point dogs?  That isn't right.

There was a guy from Vegas on the score the other day and he said something along the lines of how there Bears have no shot to go 8-8. That got my dad so fired up he called me while I was in class.

[brandx]

I am stunned a certain poster is taking the side of management here. 

Good lord.

Bank it. Every time.

If one side has more power and money, chicos will defend them to the death.

[brandx]

That's what they are saying publicly....in my opinion.      In my opinion, in talking to Disney \ ESPN folks practically daily, I believe that is part of the suspension.  In my opinion.

So espn is lying too.

But roger is not. Right.....

[GGGG]

Or maybe, they can blame his secretary.  Curious how many packages the chief of NFL security gets a week.

Given the voicemail response, it seems that someone saw the recording.  I would find it hard to believe that if someone did actually see that, that they wouldn't have passed it on up the chain.  That very well *could* be what happened.

What would really gall me is if some underling gets fired why the director of security and Goodell get off with a free pass.  

[Spotcheck Billy]

well it does sound strange that if only 1 person at the NFL office saw it that it was a secretary of all people

[wadesworld]

Given the voicemail response, it seems that someone saw the recording.  I would find it hard to believe that if someone did actually see that, that they wouldn't have passed it on up the chain.  That very well *could* be what happened.

What would really gall me is if some underling gets fired why the director of security and Goodell get off with a free pass.  

Does Goodell then retract his statement about ignorance not being an excuse?  Do we replay the 2012 NFL season and allow Sean Payton to coach?  All rosters must return to what they were in 2012?  Payton gets his 2012 pay back and a giant apology?

[DegenerateDish]

There's no way around this...either Goodell and the NFL are blatantly lying, or they acted willfully ignorant.

Quite honestly, I don't know which is worse. Everyone at the NFL keeps hiding behind "well, I didn't see it", like that makes everything ok.

NOT seeking out the truth and then trying to "reasonably " still punish...I mean come the f on.

Utterly shameful. Goodell must go.

[wadesworld]

There's no way around this...either Goodell and the NFL are blatantly lying, or they acted willfully ignorant.

Quite honestly, I don't know which is worse. Everyone at the NFL keeps hiding behind "well, I didn't see it", like that makes everything ok.

NOT seeking out the truth and then trying to "reasonably " still punish...I mean come the f on.

Utterly shameful. Goodell must go.

Agreed on all of this.

[brandx]

There's no way around this...either Goodell and the NFL are blatantly lying, or they acted willfully ignorant.

Quite honestly, I don't know which is worse. Everyone at the NFL keeps hiding behind "well, I didn't see it", like that makes everything ok.

NOT seeking out the truth and then trying to "reasonably " still punish...I mean come the f on.

Utterly shameful. Goodell must go.

Yeah, but look how tough it was for TMZ to get the tape. They actually had to call the casino and ask for it. We can't expect the experts at NFL security to go that far.

Goodell is a liar and won't survive this!

[ChicosBailBonds]

well it does sound strange that if only 1 person at the NFL office saw it that it was a secretary of all people

What's more strange to me is the anonymous law enforcement official who said he sent the video on his own accord because he wanted to provide insight to the NFL before they suspended him, even though it was illegal for him do so.  Said he mailed it to Jeff Miller....of course he may not have known but there are two Jeff Millers at the NFL NY office.  Hopefully he put "head of security", but who knows.  He claims inside a note was included that included a phone number to a disposable phone number, presumably his.  According to the anonymous source, the note said something to the effect that this is the Ray Rice elevator video, you have to see it, it is terrible.  He is now saying he will not cooperate with the Robert Mueller investigation about his role and since Mueller has no subpoena power nor does NFLPA, both those investigations trying to understand when this guy sent it, tracking number, who signed for it, etc, may not be found...that throws a wrench in things. 

As far as the voicemail response, who knows if the secretary saw something or was responding to the original video or responding to the alleged note and simply responding with “You’re right. It’s terrible"....is she talking about the situation, the video, etc. Who knows.  That remains the issue, no one knows, but a lot of people think they know.  Meanwhile, OTL had to issue ANOTHER retraction today.  Awesome reporting on all of this stuff.

Keep letting it play out......

[ChicosBailBonds]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11589797/official-says-ray-rice-video-was-sent-nfl-security-chief-jeffrey-miller

ruh roh

Also, how has this voicemail from the NFL offices confirming receipt of the video along with the comment of it being terrible not been addressed more? This indeed confirms that someone at the NFL offices did see it. If the video did get sent to the NFL, was received by the NFL, and was viewed by whoever is the female voicemail, then it appears Goodell did lie. Lots of "ifs" to get past though.

Doesn't confirm a thing, actually.  It confirms the receipt of a package and a woman saying, it's terrible.  The note inside the package specifically said you have to see this, it's terrible.  No one here or anywhere else knows if she is responding to the note, or if she saw it, or whatever,  In fact, we don't even know if it went to the right Jeff Miller, as there are two in the NFL offices.

[GGGG]

Chico's dad probably doubted the moon landing.  That's really my only explanation by this point.

[4everwarriors]

Respect the process

[ChicosBailBonds]

There's no way around this...either Goodell and the NFL are blatantly lying, or they acted willfully ignorant.

Quite honestly, I don't know which is worse. Everyone at the NFL keeps hiding behind "well, I didn't see it", like that makes everything ok.

NOT seeking out the truth and then trying to "reasonably " still punish...I mean come the f on.

Utterly shameful. Goodell must go.

I still love that you actually want the NFL to break the law to see something they are not allowed to see....I guess a means to an end.  I'm curious where you draw the line as the slippery slope on all of this is quite broad.

When you say did not seek out the truth, they interviewed the parties involved...is that part of seeking it out?  I would say so...are you saying that is not part of the search?  They were not allowed the video as they had no legal claim to it, but they should have broken the law to get it in their search for the truth....that appears to be what you are saying.  Do you think your employer should also have the same rights?  Just the NFL?  Any employer should be able to illegally obtain information if they wish?

Goodell will go if the NFL wants him to go or if he lied, not because you think he should. 

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

This is not like this has been Goodell's only incident though. He has been incompetant for his entire tenure. This is just the icing on the cake. Hes become more maligned than Stern and Selig, which is very hard to do.

[mu03eng]

Chico's dad probably doubted the moon landing.  That's really my only explanation by this point.

I will say, this whole discussion has been very enlightening and is a great litmus test for how to evaluate opinions in other areas going forward.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Goodell will go if the NFL wants him to go or if he lied, not because you think he should. 

That's actually not true.

If enough fans want him to go, sponsors will listen and the NFL will cave.

You want an example: Adrian Peterson.

It's just about $.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I will say, this whole discussion has been very enlightening and is a great litmus test for how to evaluate opinions in other areas going forward.

My dad is dead, died when I was in my 20's  He was a scientist, didn't doubt the moon landing, but as a scientist he wanted real facts, not conjecture.  That's what I'm asking for.  Others of you have jumped to many conclusions, some of the same people that said Duke Lacrosse team was guilty, so on and so forth.

I'll wait to see it played out.

[ChicosBailBonds]

This is not like this has been Goodell's only incident though. He has been incompetant for his entire tenure. This is just the icing on the cake. Hes become more maligned than Stern and Selig, which is very hard to do.

You still haven't answered my question yesterday, you said ESPN is trying to protect the NFL and you ignore the constant reporting against them...please square it.

As for Goodell's incompetence, fans generally think commissioners are incompetent, that's just how it goes.  In terms of measurement of the game, the revenues,etc, etc, he has been anything remotely incompetent.  Labor peace, television contracts through the roof, a drug police with the NFL PA for the first time, concussion settlement and research for the first time, so on and so forth. 

Now, about ESPN protecting the NFL....

[ChicosBailBonds]

That's actually not true.

If enough fans want him to go, sponsors will listen and the NFL will cave.

You want an example: Adrian Peterson.

It's just about $.

That decision would be made by the owners....which is what I said.  The owners fire and hire the commissioner, ultimately they will decide his fate.  Let the process play out....how many more retractions do you guys need in the press to say "wait a minute, maybe we should wait until all the information comes in".  But hey, to each their own.  Maybe Sultan can call you a liar, or rip on your mom or something....he's highly tactful like that.

[DegenerateDish]

I still love that you actually want the NFL to break the law to see something they are not allowed to see....I guess a means to an end.  I'm curious where you draw the line as the slippery slope on all of this is quite broad.

When you say did not seek out the truth, they interviewed the parties involved...is that part of seeking it out?  I would say so...are you saying that is not part of the search?  They were not allowed the video as they had no legal claim to it, but they should have broken the law to get it in their search for the truth....that appears to be what you are saying.  Do you think your employer should also have the same rights?  Just the NFL?  Any employer should be able to illegally obtain information if they wish?

Goodell will go if the NFL wants him to go or if he lied, not because you think he should. 

Are you serious? I mean that, are you serious here?

Break the law??? By that logic, THE LAW broke the law here. Number of people who then saw the video before Goodell and the powers that be in the NFL...too many to count. TMZ, employees at the casino, NUMEROUS NFL PLAYERS WHO HAD THE VIDEO ON THEIR PHONES...get off your high horse already. So the NFL is just supposed to say "ehh, we're going to just let this one play out, BUT, we're pretty sure something bad PROBABLY happened here, so you get 2 games Ray Rice, but we do NOT want to see the video...we might get in trouble with the law." Mind you, this is an organization with former FBI and Secret Service staff employed.

So Ray Rice, allegedly, told Goodell "I beat the living $hit out of my wife, I round housed hooked her so hard, she immediately hit the floor, then I dragged her a$$ out of the elevator". Because remember, they interviewed the parties involved and it has been reported that Rice told Goodell exactly what happened.

EVEN THOUGH NUMEROUS OTHER PARTIES HAD ACCESS TO THE VIDEO, Goodell at this point, according to Chicos, says "ehh, we don't really want to break the law at this point". So Goodell heard this and deemed 2 games was fair...got it, good call Chicos.

Now here's the best part...the NFL lawfully could have gotten access to the video in about 2 minutes. Curious why you keep wrongly saying they would have been breaking the law. The case was adjudicated FOR MONTHS.

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming...already in progressl

[GGGG]

My dad is dead, died when I was in my 20's  He was a scientist, didn't doubt the moon landing, but as a scientist he wanted real facts, not conjecture.  That's what I'm asking for.  Others of you have jumped to many conclusions, some of the same people that said Duke Lacrosse team was guilty, so on and so forth.

I'll wait to see it played out.

"My dad loved Neil Armstrong.  He worked with him a number of times.  Good guy."

[tower912]

If Buzz was the NFL commissioner, Chico's tune would be different.   

[mu03eng]

Are you serious? I mean that, are you serious here?

Break the law??? By that logic, THE LAW broke the law here. Number of people who then saw the video before Goodell and the powers that be in the NFL...too many to count. TMZ, employees at the casino, NUMEROUS NFL PLAYERS WHO HAD THE VIDEO ON THEIR PHONES...get off your high horse already. So the NFL is just supposed to say "ehh, we're going to just let this one play out, BUT, we're pretty sure something bad PROBABLY happened here, so you get 2 games Ray Rice, but we do NOT want to see the video...we might get in trouble with the law." Mind you, this is an organization with former FBI and Secret Service staff employed.

So Ray Rice, allegedly, told Goodell "I beat the living $hit out of my wife, I round housed hooked her so hard, she immediately hit the floor, then I dragged her a$$ out of the elevator". Because remember, they interviewed the parties involved and it has been reported that Rice told Goodell exactly what happened.

EVEN THOUGH NUMEROUS OTHER PARTIES HAD ACCESS TO THE VIDEO, Goodell at this point, according to Chicos, says "ehh, we don't really want to break the law at this point". So Goodell heard this and deemed 2 games was fair...got it, good call Chicos.

Now here's the best part...the NFL lawfully could have gotten access to the video in about 2 minutes. Curious why you keep wrongly saying they would have been breaking the law. The case was adjudicated FOR MONTHS.

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming...already in progressl

Ray Rice's attorney had they tape and could have turned it over to the NFL if they had asked.  Perhaps they did and were denied but I would sure as hell say that.


Dish, I think ultimately you articulately this correctly and succinctly:  The NFL is either lying about what they knew when or they willfully ignored the situation because they didn't want to know.  In both outcomes the league in general and Goodell in particular should be in for a lot of trouble.

Chicos, is there a 3rd alternative I'm missing here?  I'd like a clear, concise, logical (almost....scientific) explanation as to a 3rd theory as to how we got here that does not bathe the NFL and Goodell in guilt?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Are you serious? I mean that, are you serious here?

Break the law??? By that logic, THE LAW broke the law here. Number of people who then saw the video before Goodell and the powers that be in the NFL...too many to count. TMZ, employees at the casino, NUMEROUS NFL PLAYERS WHO HAD THE VIDEO ON THEIR PHONES...get off your high horse already. So the NFL is just supposed to say "ehh, we're going to just let this one play out, BUT, we're pretty sure something bad PROBABLY happened here, so you get 2 games Ray Rice, but we do NOT want to see the video...we might get in trouble with the law." Mind you, this is an organization with former FBI and Secret Service staff employed.

So Ray Rice, allegedly, told Goodell "I beat the living $hit out of my wife, I round housed hooked her so hard, she immediately hit the floor, then I dragged her a$$ out of the elevator". Because remember, they interviewed the parties involved and it has been reported that Rice told Goodell exactly what happened.

EVEN THOUGH NUMEROUS OTHER PARTIES HAD ACCESS TO THE VIDEO, Goodell at this point, according to Chicos, says "ehh, we don't really want to break the law at this point". So Goodell heard this and deemed 2 games was fair...got it, good call Chicos.

Now here's the best part...the NFL lawfully could have gotten access to the video in about 2 minutes. Curious why you keep wrongly saying they would have been breaking the law. The case was adjudicated FOR MONTHS.

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming...already in progressl

Yes, actually a number of people did break the law here, including the law itself.   So yes, I'm dead serious.  When your employer, or the NFL in this case, is not allowed to have access to certain information, you want them to break the law to acquire it.  I just want to make sure you're good with that.  Then I have a few follow-up questions for you in terms of where it stops and what rights the individual has as it tries to square with due process....thanks....I'll hang up and listen.