2014-15 NFC North/NFL Thread

[ChicosBailBonds]

Seriously, you of all people...geez man.

There is a gigantic difference between attendance and paid attendance. GIGANTIC.

Come on man. If you think there were more butts in seats last season than 2012, I'm ready to sell my swamp land to you.

There's a reason the Cowboys give you playoff tickets upfront (insert joke here). It's because attendance is becoming a bigger problem than you think.

I understand that, but do you have data that suggests the actual attendance was lower or are you just saying that?

Tickets sold was higher in 2013 than 2012.  I'd like to see your data that shows actual attendance (gate attendance) was lower as you claimed.  You may be correct, I'd just like to see the data.  Meanwhile, paid attendance was up in 2013 vs 2012.    Paid attendance was down from 2008 to 2009.  It was further down 2009 to 2010.  Since 2011, however, it has been up slightly year over year.

Dish....I don't disagree with you, I'm just looking for the data.  NFL is the perfect tv game, and I don't particularly like going to stadium games any longer.  Corporations have to buy tickets to prevent blackouts, etc.  However, I would like to see the data.

[GGGG]

Sometimes a commissioners role is to protect the owners from themselves.  Goodell doesn't do a very good job in that regard IMO.

[DegenerateDish]

NFL changed its policy not that long ago where teams no longer have to report attendance figures, but if they do, it must be seats purchased, and not actuals (since actuals have been down every year since mid 2000's). There's a ton of articles on this, without actuals. AP story by Will Graves is easy to find.

Because of the short window, the best gauge for the problem at hand is the playoffs. When 3 of 4 Wild Card round games have trouble selling out paid tickets, let alone butts in seats, you have a big problem.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Bring Tim Tebow back

[ChicosBailBonds]

NFL changed its policy not that long ago where teams no longer have to report attendance figures, but if they do, it must be seats purchased, and not actuals (since actuals have been down every year since mid 2000's). There's a ton of articles on this, without actuals. AP story by Will Graves is easy to find.

Because of the short window, the best gauge for the problem at hand is the playoffs. When 3 of 4 Wild Card round games have trouble selling out paid tickets, let alone butts in seats, you have a big problem.

Thank you

[MU B2002]

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/nfl-the-league-that-never-takes-a-break/

[🏀]

So does Trestman have control of the team?

[MU B2002]

So does Trestman have control of the team?

Depends, was he with Briggs when he was skipping practice to open his restaurant or out til 4am buying shots?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

**Personal conduct policy is a joke.  
**Talks about player safety issues, but then pushes for an 18 game schedule
**Thursday night football.
**Redskins
**Pink campaign, which was exposed as more of a money maker for the NFL than anything
**Replacement refs...which is one I forgot about
**The concussion issue.  From denial, to obstruction, to a misguided "heads up" tackling initiative of questionable value.

Seriously, can you not see this Chicos?  As Awful Announcing put it tonight "At the moment the league’s most popular sports and entertainment brand is also its most reviled.  As the fallout continues, it will be difficult for the NFL to overcome the worst stain on the shield in recent memory."

He has been completely tone deaf from the beginning on multiple issues.

I think the NFL might become the modern tobacco company.

Nobody really "likes" big tobacco, and we all know they were shady. But, they keep selling a TON of products, and people keep smoking.

Nobody really "likes" or "trusts" Goodell, or any of the owners. We know they are screwing the players. But, we love the product, so we keep consuming it.

There will eventually be a backlash, but it's really too big to fail at this point.

[DegenerateDish]

So does Trestman have control of the team?

That's a concern I have. If (most likely when) things spiral quickly, can he lead through a really rough stretch?

They are going to get blasted by the read option this Sunday night. I wouldn't be surprised in the least to see San Fran over 225 team rush yds.

[RJax55]

So does Trestman have control of the team?

What is this in reference to?

Sorry, I can't find anything other than Briggs restaurant thing. Thanks

[RJax55]

Never mind, found it.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I think the NFL might become the modern tobacco company.

Nobody really "likes" big tobacco, and we all know they were shady. But, they keep selling a TON of products, and people keep smoking.

Nobody really "likes" or "trusts" Goodell, or any of the owners. We know they are screwing the players. But, we love the product, so we keep consuming it.

There will eventually be a backlash, but it's really too big to fail at this point.

Maybe the Charlotte Observer can come down on the tobacco industry that supports their state so much while not using Redskins....they can get a daily double in that regard.


Careful when you use terms like "nobody", "never", "always"....hyperbole.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Maybe the Charlotte Observer can come down on the tobacco industry that supports their state so much while not using Redskins....they can get a daily double in that regard.


Careful when you use terms like "nobody", "never", "always"....hyperbole.

You got me.

Some people like Big Tobacco, and some people trust that the owners and Goodell are making sound decisions with the players and the league's best long term interest in mind.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I think the NFL might become the modern tobacco company.

Nobody really "likes" big tobacco, and we all know they were shady. But, they keep selling a TON of products, and people keep smoking.

Nobody really "likes" or "trusts" Goodell, or any of the owners. We know they are screwing the players. But, we love the product, so we keep consuming it.

There will eventually be a backlash, but it's really too big to fail at this point.

Sultan...why do you respond to me, I have you on ignore.  I'm not going to tolerate you calling my wife a liar, or me for that matter.  You want to PM me and apologize, fine.  Otherwise, I have no idea why you respond to me....thanks for quoting Canned.


I do have to laugh at the Thursday night football, the concussion stuff, etc.  It wasn't until this commissioner that anything material was done about concussions.  You may not think it is good enough, but progress has been made.  Thursday night football, a red herring.  His job is to grow revenues for the teams and players.  That's how you do it...would you prefer pay per view for games?  Higher and higher ticket prices?  18 game schedule is also a joke of a canard...they will reduce preseason games and can't do it without the players approval anyway.  So if it happens, it is because the players have approved it....but that's the commissioner's fault?  LOL

[tower912]

Lion's win.   Fool's gold.   The Giants are not good.   But I do feel better today than the Bears' fans.   Just zero confidence long-term. 

[mu03eng]

Sultan...why do you respond to me, I have you on ignore.  I'm not going to tolerate you calling my wife a liar, or me for that matter.  You want to PM me and apologize, fine.  Otherwise, I have no idea why you respond to me....thanks for quoting Canned.


I do have to laugh at the Thursday night football, the concussion stuff, etc.  It wasn't until this commissioner that anything material was done about concussions.  You may not think it is good enough, but progress has been made.  Thursday night football, a red herring.  His job is to grow revenues for the teams and players.  That's how you do it...would you prefer pay per view for games?  Higher and higher ticket prices?  18 game schedule is also a joke of a canard...they will reduce preseason games and can't do it without the players approval anyway.  So if it happens, it is because the players have approved it....but that's the commissioner's fault?  LOL

Apparently the ignore only works on incoming huh?   

[ChicosBailBonds]

You got me.

Some people like Big Tobacco, and some people trust that the owners and Goodell are making sound decisions with the players and the league's best long term interest in mind.

A lot of people like tobacco....unfortunately.

Many people trust Goodell, including many former and current players.  I get to deal with a bunch of them every week.  Are there many that do not....of course.  That goes with the territory.  Just as there are people that think the current POTUS is ruining the country and others that think he is the best POTUS in our history...how can people have such differing views? 

That was my point, don't assume YOUR view of him is EVERYBODY's view.  Get into the weeds with some of these guys and they talk a lot differently about much of the progress that has been made.  That doesn't mean a lot of people don't like him, but it also means a lot of people really do like him and believe he is working well with the Players Association, retired players, etc.  What you read and see is the negativity around key issues, you aren't going to read stories about players being happy or whatever...that's not how the news works.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

A lot of people like tobacco....unfortunately.

Many people trust Goodell, including many former and current players.  I get to deal with a bunch of them every week.  Are there many that do not....of course.  That goes with the territory.  Just as there are people that think the current POTUS is ruining the country and others that think he is the best POTUS in our history...how can people have such differing views? 

That was my point, don't assume YOUR view of him is EVERYBODY's view.  Get into the weeds with some of these guys and they talk a lot differently about much of the progress that has been made.  That doesn't mean a lot of people don't like him, but it also means a lot of people really do like him and believe he is working well with the Players Association, retired players, etc.  What you read and see is the negativity around key issues, you aren't going to read stories about players being happy or whatever...that's not how the news works.

I honestly have no contact with ANY player. Ever.

But, from a big picture perspective, I can't imagine that Goodell and the NFL are carrying a very good rep right now.

I've been wrong before.

[DegenerateDish]

I do have to laugh at the Thursday night football, the concussion stuff, etc.  It wasn't until this commissioner that anything material was done about concussions.  You may not think it is good enough, but progress has been made.  Thursday night football, a red herring.  His job is to grow revenues for the teams and players.  That's how you do it...would you prefer pay per view for games?  Higher and higher ticket prices?  18 game schedule is also a joke of a canard...they will reduce preseason games and can't do it without the players approval anyway.  So if it happens, it is because the players have approved it....but that's the commissioner's fault?  LOL

Funny, because litigation against the NFL forced their had to act like they really cared about concussions. The Head's Up program is a total joke, and has been proven as such.

Pay Per View already exists for the NFL, it's called Sunday Ticket, which you should be familiar with. True PPV, as you are referencing would end up possibly violating the NFL's antitrust exemption, which is what keeps the league what it is. Green Bay wouldn't have a franchise without it.

Yes, it's his job to grow revenues, but Goodell's strategy has sucked. Thursday night package? No thanks. Second Monday night package? Sign me up. Team in London? Not a chance. Team in Mexico City? There's a market waiting for an NFL team. Expanding the playoffs? I'm fine with that.

There's ways to grow revenue in front of his face, he's just missing them.

[🏀]

That's a concern I have. If (most likely when) things spiral quickly, can he lead through a really rough stretch?

They are going to get blasted by the read option this Sunday night. I wouldn't be surprised in the least to see San Fran over 225 team rush yds.

All the work put into the Jay makeover during the off-season, quickly destroyed in one answer.

[DegenerateDish]

All the work put into the Jay makeover during the off-season, quickly destroyed in one answer.

Can't argue with it. Have to admit, his reaction in the presser after the game really turned me off.

I know this has been addressed here, but eventually his Chicago legacy will just be a huge "meh". Expectations were so high when he got to Chicago, I can't see them winning a Super Bowl, inspite of his talent. It's frustrating because when the guy is good, he's really good. He makes some throws that are ridiculous. The problem is...he makes some throws that are also ridiculous.

The expectations (back in June anyway), with Trestman supposed to be helping him, his new contract, all that stuff...if things go south, the town is going to turn on him pretty quickly.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Funny, because litigation against the NFL forced their had to act like they really cared about concussions. The Head's Up program is a total joke, and has been proven as such.

Pay Per View already exists for the NFL, it's called Sunday Ticket, which you should be familiar with. True PPV, as you are referencing would end up possibly violating the NFL's antitrust exemption, which is what keeps the league what it is. Green Bay wouldn't have a franchise without it.

Yes, it's his job to grow revenues, but Goodell's strategy has sucked. Thursday night package? No thanks. Second Monday night package? Sign me up. Team in London? Not a chance. Team in Mexico City? There's a market waiting for an NFL team. Expanding the playoffs? I'm fine with that.

There's ways to grow revenue in front of his face, he's just missing them.

Yup, I'm quite aware of NFL ST as well as all the revenue sharing dynamics at work as was tied at the hip with some of that stuff.

The people that vote on whether "his" strategy has sucked (it's not his strategy alone, by the way...which you should know) are the owners.  They vehemently disagree.  The revenue pie has grown exponentially under his watch.   Incidentally, they studied HARD a second Monday night, as they have to run all those scenarios by the rights holders as it directly impacts things like NFL Sunday Ticket.   Thursday won out by the research that was done.  You may not like it, but that's what the data showed.

The dollars that have been generated on his watch have been huge, and the strategy has hardly sucked or they wouldn't be where they are at.   London...Mexico City....they want to take the game international, it's going to happen to one or both.  I believe it will be London.  You say not a chance, but the fact is that London can sustain the economics of a team while Mexico City has a much tougher time over the longhaul.

18 games, it is going to happen....there will be concessions in the CBA to the NFLPA, but the NFLPA will vote for it ultimately.

On the concussions, I don't disagree with you that the pressure was coming, but they acted.  I'd like to see what has been "proven" about the Head's Up program.  In particular, I was referencing the policy changes when a player suffers a concussion, the funding set aside to treat the effects, the research commitment made, etc.  Is it perfect?  No.  Is it a step in the right direction that his predecessors did not do?  Yes.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I honestly have no contact with ANY player. Ever.

But, from a big picture perspective, I can't imagine that Goodell and the NFL are carrying a very good rep right now.

I've been wrong before.

Stern. Goodall.  Bettman.  Selig.   Most commissioners are disliked by the fans at various levels.  Silver, he's in a honeymoon phase right now, but rest assured it will happen to him as well.  With all the bed wetting conspiracy theories the last few days, of course there will be plenty of people that have a bad opinion of things.  As they cycle through their theory to HE DID see it, to HE SHOULD HAVE seen it, to they should have illegally bought the video, to he should have predicted it....that's the way it goes.

Sundays, Mondays, Thursdays will have lots of butts watching on the tube a bunch of guys playing football and plenty of people complaining about something. 

[DegenerateDish]

Yup, I'm quite aware of NFL ST as well as all the revenue sharing dynamics at work as was tied at the hip with some of that stuff.

The people that vote on whether "his" strategy has sucked (it's not his strategy alone, by the way...which you should know) are the owners.  They vehemently disagree.  The revenue pie has grown exponentially under his watch.   Incidentally, they studied HARD a second Monday night, as they have to run all those scenarios by the rights holders as it directly impacts things like NFL Sunday Ticket.   Thursday won out by the research that was done.  You may not like it, but that's what the data showed.

The dollars that have been generated on his watch have been huge, and the strategy has hardly sucked or they wouldn't be where they are at.   London...Mexico City....they want to take the game international, it's going to happen to one or both.  I believe it will be London.  You say not a chance, but the fact is that London can sustain the economics of a team while Mexico City has a much tougher time over the longhaul.

18 games, it is going to happen....there will be concessions in the CBA to the NFLPA, but the NFLPA will vote for it ultimately.

On the concussions, I don't disagree with you that the pressure was coming, but they acted.  I'd like to see what has been "proven" about the Head's Up program.  In particular, I was referencing the policy changes when a player suffers a concussion, the funding set aside to treat the effects, the research commitment made, etc.  Is it perfect?  No.  Is it a step in the right direction that his predecessors did not do?  Yes.

Here you go: http://deadspin.com/i-got-certified-to-coach-heads-up-football-and-it-was-a-1583159680

Here you go: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/08/05/john-madden-doesnt-believe-in-the-heads-up-football-program/

If you don't want to call it proof, fine, whatever. Heads Up is a joke.

To me, it's much more a coincidence Goodell, in your opinion, gets credited for this advancement in concussions. It was going to happen at this particular point in history, due to knowledge/science/technology, in spite of whoever was commish.

Yes, 18 games is going to happen. As long as the second bye week is brought back, I'm fine with it.

You argue it's not his strategy, but it for a fact is his responsibility to sell to the Mara's/McCaskey's/Hunt's of the world what the Snyder's/Jones'/Kraft's want. Yes, the revenue has grown tremendously, but the harmony isn't across the board. Goodell is doing what he grew up in the NFL doing. Whether he is doing it well, as he is quoted at the 2010 NFL Rookie Symposium..."protect the Shield".

Is he a good business negotiator? For the most part, yes. Is he good at governing a sports league? No, not at all.