2014-15 NFC North/NFL Thread

[DegenerateDish]

Not really. The fact that it took this video coming out before either the ravens or NFL did what should have done from the get is a travesty. Video or not, anyone who took a moment to think about it knew what happened in that elevator. The fact that only when publicly confronted with this video did they take appropriate action, should probably be grounds for Goddell to lose his job. Absolute embarrassment.

It's hard to fathom that as awful as the actual incident itself is/was, everything that happened after was almost as bad.

Rice not getting charged. Ravens standing by and supporting him. He made his wife apolgoize. The Ravens tweeted that his wife aplogized. And then the lying and cover up (or whatever you want to call it). Mutliple people lied here. My guess is Rice lied to the Ravens, the Ravens gave him full support, and then the league had to (HAD TO) have seen that video previously. Total BS that they did not. This was an elevator...IN A CASINO. The NFL can find the Spygate tapes and destroy them, but can't get casino elevator footage for domestic violence? Come. On.

NFL then is going to trot out pink jerseys in a few weeks...if they want to really support cancer research, do it with a big check without all the faux fan fare, especially in light of this piece of garbage that is Ray Rice and everything that happened these last few months.

[MU B2002]

The show I was watching showed the 1st punch and then paused, and I thought "man that was awful".  Then they hit play again and showed the 2nd punch knocking her out.

Can the Raven's get out of the contract/cap money if he was deemed to be in breech of contract?  Not that I want the Ravens to get out of this, but just curious.

[Spotcheck Billy]

The show I was watching showed the 1st punch and then paused, and I thought "man that was awful".  Then they hit play again and showed the 2nd punch knocking her out.

Can the Raven's get out of the contract/cap money if he was deemed to be in breech of contract?  Not that I want the Ravens to get out of this, but just curious.

I think the answer is YES now that the league issued an indefinite suspension

[RJax55]

At what point do the owners move on from Goodell?

Have to think that at least some of these guys have concerns about that office. The commissioner's office continues to bungle issue after issue. Yes, I know its all about the money, but at this point the case can be made that the league is successful in spite of Goodell. Just wondering how many more PR hits the league can continue to take, before the only thing that really matters (revenue) is affected?

[DegenerateDish]

By cutting Rice, Ravens free approx $3.5 mil of his nonguaranteed base this year.

Next year he'll carry a $9.5 mil hit in dead money.

[muarmy81]

Obviously they should release him, should have done it months ago.

Contractually, they virtually can't. If they did so, they'd have approx $14 mil in dead cap money the next two years.

Clearly, that should not matter one bit here, unless they can figure out a way to get back some of his signing bonus, I don't know what they do with him. For once, would love to see an NFL team say "screw it" and just do the right thing, money be d*mned.

I'd love to see the NFLPA come to his defense when the Ravens/League tell him to pound sand for any "guaranteed monies"...

[brandx]

At what point do the owners move on from Goodell?

Have to think that at least some of these guys have concerns about that office. The commissioner's office continues to bungle issue after issue. Yes, I know its all about the money, but at this point the case can be made that the league is successful in spite of Goodell. Just wondering how many more PR hits the league can continue to take, before the only thing that really matters (revenue) is affected?

You and MUDish are right on here.

1. Baltimore's owner should be suspended immediately. Not only did he ignore an extreme assault case, he defended the criminal and demonized the victim.

2. Goodell needs to go. He has become power mad and thinks the NFL is above the law. He saw a tape where a 220 pound man pounded the sh** out of a woman 100 pounds lighter and didn't really have a problem with it. After the 1st viewing, he should have suspended Rice on the spot. PERIOD. It is what any decent human being would have done. He has no problem handing out long suspensions for someone toking or popping an adderall, and yet, when faced with real-world assault and battery, he has to think about it before giving a slap on the wrist. Goodell is not an embarrassment to the NFL - he is an embarrassment to decent people everywhere.

[DegenerateDish]

My question is if we've reached a tipping point with the NFL and its popularity. Tough to correlate it with the Rice situation, but Goodell's approval rating among the public can't be much lower. Issues with Rice, Washington football club, concussions, amongst other things.

For the most part, the NFL "should" be the easiest league to govern.

Attendance is down, yesterday's Week 1 ratings are down. League is still of course a monster and will be, but how can Goodell survive long term? When he states his goal is to "protect the shield", and he fails miserably, how can he be trusted?

[brandx]

My question is if we've reached a tipping point with the NFL and its popularity. Tough to correlate it with the Rice situation, but Goodell's approval rating among the public can't be much lower. Issues with Rice, Washington football club, concussions, amongst other things.

For the most part, the NFL "should" be the easiest league to govern.

Attendance is down, yesterday's Week 1 ratings are down. League is still of course a monster and will be, but how can Goodell survive long term? When he states his goal is to "protect the shield", and he fails miserably, how can he be trusted?

I think his goal should be to grow the product just as his predecessors did. He has some factors going against him, as you mentioned, but I think the biggest problem is Goodell, himself.

[NavinRJohnson]

Crean probably not going to be so eager to tell people he's related to the Harbaugh brothers anymore, I'm really a badger fan?

[DegenerateDish]

So word is, apparently, there is "damning" evidence coming late tonight/tomorrow morning that the NFL explicitly knew/saw this video previously, and turned an absolute blind eye. We'll see what else comes out.

[MU82]

My question is if we've reached a tipping point with the NFL and its popularity.

Nah. It is still by far the most popular sport. Nothing else is even close.

We need a lot bigger sample size to determine if that popularity has waned. Advertisers kill for the number of eyes the NFL brings every week.

[DegenerateDish]

Nah. It is still by far the most popular sport. Nothing else is even close.

We need a lot bigger sample size to determine if that popularity has waned. Advertisers kill for the number of eyes the NFL brings every week.

Not arguing that, arguing that the NFL has peaked. Yes, it is by far the monster league, nothing is close.

Interesting that ratings were down for last nights game. Attendance was down last season. Not saying by any means the league is in trouble, but has interest leveled off? Don't know, but wondering if an average consumer of football is turned off by the negative press.

[DegenerateDish]

Back to football for a second...

The Giants are battling the Rams for the worst team in the NFC.

[GGGG]

Not arguing that, arguing that the NFL has peaked. Yes, it is by far the monster league, nothing is close.

Interesting that ratings were down for last nights game. Attendance was down last season. Not saying by any means the league is in trouble, but has interest leveled off? Don't know, but wondering if an average consumer of football is turned off by the negative press.

Completely anecdotal story.

I love NFL football.  Really it is the one sport that I can say that I have thoroughly enjoyed my entire life.  Ever since I can first remember, I watched the Packers on Sunday.  I can honestly say that in my adult life, I can count the Packer games I have missed on two hands.  And of course I would watch all weekend and Monday night too.  Before the season started, I used to get into the draft, used to be active on Packer discussion boards, knew the depth chart almost by heart...

But I've got to tell you, the last couple years I just haven't been all that into it.  Yeah I will watch the Packers, and will generally watch on Sundays, but if I've got something better to do, I go do it.  NFL draft?  No interest.  Pre-season?  This year I watched the first quarter of the Packers/Rams game and that was it.  I am sitting in my living room right now and the television is completely off.  No interest in watching the games tonight.

I really think the NFL has damaged its brand in the last few years.  Thursday night games that generally suck.  Concussions.  Redskins.  Player violence.  

This might sound really lame, but Rozelle and Tagliabue seemed to govern the league in a "grandfatherly" way, where they made a ton of money, but they also knew that they had to protect the league from potential excesses.  Goodell and company seem to push the envelope every single time they can.  

[brandx]

Completely anecdotal story.

I love NFL football.  Really it is the one sport that I can say that I have thoroughly enjoyed my entire life.  Every Sunday since I can first remember, I watched the Packers on Sunday.  I can honestly say that in my adult life, I can count the Packer games I have missed on two hands.  And of course I would watch all weekend and Monday night too.  Before the season started, I used to get into the draft, used to be active on Packer discussion boards, knew the depth chart almost by heart...

But I've got to tell you, the last couple years I just haven't been all that into it.  Yeah I will watch the Packers, and will generally watch on Sundays, but if I've got something better to do, I go do it.  NFL draft?  No interest.  Pre-season?  This year I watched the first quarter of the Packers/Rams game and that was it.  I am sitting in my living room right now and the television is completely off.  No interest in watching the games tonight.

I really think the NFL has damaged its brand in the last few years.  Thursday night games that generally suck.  Concussions.  Redskins.  Player violence. 

This might sound really lame, but Rozelle and Tagliabue seemed to govern the league in a "grandfatherly" way, where they made a ton of money, but they also knew that they had to protect the league from potential excesses.  Goodell and company seem to push the envelope every single time they can. 

I agree and my experience is almost identical.

I also believe that the NFL will end up being a case study in unabashed greed at some point in the not too distant future - maybe 10-15 years from now.

[DegenerateDish]

I really like what Sultan said, makes complete sense to me. The Rozelle/Tags analogy was spot on the money.

I love the NFL, it's a game I grew up watching, got season tickets for, lucked into a job with the Bears (albeit one season).

Yesterday, I didn't watch a single second of pregame. Not that I enjoy pregame shows, I don't, but Week 1 I'm usually jacked up. Yesterday, avoided it on purpose...and it was great.

I'm tired of Rice, concussions, Skins. I hate Thurs night football. The thought of a franchise or Super Bowl in London is comical and absurd. The things Goodell tries to be proactive on are terrible. Yet, his ability to react is even worse.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Not arguing that, arguing that the NFL has peaked. Yes, it is by far the monster league, nothing is close.

Interesting that ratings were down for last nights game. Attendance was down last season. Not saying by any means the league is in trouble, but has interest leveled off? Don't know, but wondering if an average consumer of football is turned off by the negative press.

Attendance was up last season vs the previous season.  17.3M vs 17.18M in 2012.

[ChicosBailBonds]

At what point do the owners move on from Goodell?

Have to think that at least some of these guys have concerns about that office. The commissioner's office continues to bungle issue after issue. Yes, I know its all about the money, but at this point the case can be made that the league is successful in spite of Goodell. Just wondering how many more PR hits the league can continue to take, before the only thing that really matters (revenue) is affected?

Can you explain what "issue after issue" has been bungled.  I'm just curious what these are.  Other than replacement refs, which he implemented at the behest of his employers (the owners), what are all these issues?

Simply curious.

[brandx]

And housing prices rose in 2005 over 2004 prices.

I think the football boom has reached its apex. It may plateau for a few years, but then what?

This week I advised my daughter that it was my opinion that my grandson (middle school) not play football. This thinking was not even on the horizon 2 years ago. I played tackle football since grade school and while I was laid up a couple times, I just accepted injuries as part of the process. But the risk just isn't worth it anymore.

[GGGG]

Can you explain what "issue after issue" has been bungled.  I'm just curious what these are.  Other than replacement refs, which he implemented at the behest of his employers (the owners), what are all these issues?

Simply curious.

**Personal conduct policy is a joke.  
**Talks about player safety issues, but then pushes for an 18 game schedule
**Thursday night football.
**Redskins
**Pink campaign, which was exposed as more of a money maker for the NFL than anything
**Replacement refs...which is one I forgot about
**The concussion issue.  From denial, to obstruction, to a misguided "heads up" tackling initiative of questionable value.

Seriously, can you not see this Chicos?  As Awful Announcing put it tonight "At the moment the league’s most popular sports and entertainment brand is also its most reviled.  As the fallout continues, it will be difficult for the NFL to overcome the worst stain on the shield in recent memory."

He has been completely tone deaf from the beginning on multiple issues.

[RJax55]

Can you explain what "issue after issue" has been bungled.  I'm just curious what these are.  Other than replacement refs, which he implemented at the behest of his employers (the owners), what are all these issues?

Simply curious.

1. Bountygate - Where Goodell served as judge, jury and executioner. To the point that Paul Tagliabue was needed to come back to help clean that up.
2. Player Fines & Discipline - The arbitrary nature of fines and suspensions in the Goodell era.
3. Concussion Issues - Complete lack of a PR strategy to address the growing concern of player safety. Everything the league has done has been reactionary on the issue.
4. Replacement officials (as you mentioned)
5. Thursday Night Football - A sub-par product, that the league has doubled-down on.
6. The Ray Rice fiasco

[DegenerateDish]

Attendance was up last season vs the previous season.  17.3M vs 17.18M in 2012.

Seriously, you of all people...geez man.

There is a gigantic difference between attendance and paid attendance. GIGANTIC.

Come on man. If you think there were more butts in seats last season than 2012, I'm ready to sell my swamp land to you.

There's a reason the Cowboys give you playoff tickets upfront (insert joke here). It's because attendance is becoming a bigger problem than you think.

[RJax55]

This might sound really lame, but Rozelle and Tagliabue seemed to govern the league in a "grandfatherly" way, where they made a ton of money, but they also knew that they had to protect the league from potential excesses.  Goodell and company seem to push the envelope every single time they can.  

Very true, but you had a different type of owner in that era. Most teams were owned by the founder or their family, where football was their livelihood and income. Now, every new owner is independently wealthy, and teams are just another business investment. And, frankly, when you have owners like Jerry Jones, Dan Snyder, Stephen Ross, etc. who can't run their own franchise without dysfunction and drama, I'm not surprised the league office has issues.

[ChicosBailBonds]

1. Bountygate - Where Goodell served as judge, jury and executioner. To the point that Paul Tagliabue was needed to come back to help clean that up.
2. Player Fines & Discipline - The arbitrary nature of fines and suspensions in the Goodell era.
3. Concussion Issues - Complete lack of a PR strategy to address the growing concern of player safety. Everything the league has done has been reactionary on the issue.
4. Replacement officials (as you mentioned)
5. Thursday Night Football - A sub-par product, that the league has doubled-down on.
6. The Ray Rice fiasco

Thanks.  I'll agree on some, but have to disagree on others.

Bounty gate...mixed bag in my opinion.  Tags didn't reverse any of the coaches suspensions or the fines against the franchise.  The player suspensions, were overturned.  IMO, Goodell felt just because the coaches told you to do it, you have some obligation as a player to act with integrity.  Tags disagreed.  Mixed bag in my view.


Player fines....subjective.  He's actually fined players that should have been fined for a long time.  He's a disciplinarian, some don't like that and some do.  You'll find people that agree and disagree on this.

Concussion issues... I find it odd that you are saying Tags had to clean up for Goodell, when in fact in this case it is Goodell having to clean up for Tags and his predecessors.  No win situation.  I would argue that under Goodell's stewardship, the fines they have imposed, the rules changes, etc, have reduced concussions.  The policy changes of when you can return, etc. 

Replacement officials....already discussed...that's the owners call 100%.  He is the bargaining agent for the owners.

Thursday Night Football...total non starter.  It's a game like any other game.  I don't like it because it dilutes the rights value paid by the broadcasters, but he has been tasked with driving revenue at the direction of the owners and he accomplished that.


Most of your issues here, are driven by the owners.  Replacements, concussions, Thursday Night Football