Jon Rothstein on Marquette

[brandx]

I've come to accept the theory that Buzz was sticking it to the administration by playing the high character kids in place of those that were far more talented.

That was my thinking as weel last year. He was going to "prove" to the administration that they had to let him get his kind of guys if they wanted a winner.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

That was my thinking as weel last year. He was going to "prove" to the administration that they had to let him get his kind of guys if they wanted a winner.

Thats an awfully big assumption. But with that being said I dont like how the admin pretty much put the ax on JUCOs.

[NersEllenson]

Great Conclusion Pistol. It explains why he played Todd Mayo so much down the stretch and gave the bulk of the minutes at the 5 to Davante instead of Otule. I swear some of you guys "come to accept" things that are totally contradicted by the facts.

How do you reconcile these facts:

Leading minute getter at PG that causes you to play 4 on 5 per Buzz's words and posts:

1-14 3 point shooting
44% FT shooting
Wouldn't shoot outside of 4 feet from basket unless at end of shot clock situation..

When the backup triples the career 3 point makes of the incumbent junior while shooting 4 times better percentage, and shoots 80% from the FT line...and at least HAS to be guarded everywhere on the offensive end of the floor...while also being the second best defender on the team in Per Possession Analysis?

[GGGG]

How do you reconcile these facts:

Leading minute getter at PG that causes you to play 4 on 5 per Buzz's words and posts:

1-14 3 point shooting
44% FT shooting
Wouldn't shoot outside of 4 feet from basket unless at end of shot clock situation..

When the backup triples the career 3 point makes of the incumbent junior while shooting 4 times better percentage, and shoots 80% from the FT line...and at least HAS to be guarded everywhere on the offensive end of the floor...while also being the second best defender on the team in Per Possession Analysis?

Well that moratorium lasted a few weeks longer than the last one.  Progress.

(Are you ever going to address the point that you were wrong about Deonte's playing time at the end of the Xavier game?)

[bilsu]

To me it has always been to survive this season and look forward to the next season. As long as Ellenson commits, I do not really care about this season as my expectations are very low for this season.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

That was my thinking as weel last year. He was going to "prove" to the administration that they had to let him get his kind of guys if they wanted a winner.

He might have been wrong. The world will never know. But Buzz 100% believed that playing Derrick and Jake was the best chance for Marquette to win. I didn't say that was a correct belief. But Buzz thought it was the only way to win.

[tower912]

He might have been wrong. The world will never know. But Buzz 100% believed that playing Derrick and Jake was the best chance for Marquette to win. I didn't say that was a correct belief. But Buzz thought it was the only way to win.

 If Buzz thought the best way to win last year was to play JJJ or JD more, they would have played more.  I reject elaborate conspiracy theories.   It looked to me like Buzz was coaching the exact same way he had the previous 5 years, doing whatever he could to win every game.   

[brandx]

He might have been wrong. The world will never know. But Buzz 100% believed that playing Derrick and Jake was the best chance for Marquette to win. I didn't say that was a correct belief. But Buzz thought it was the only way to win.

I don't completely doubt what you say. I think it was more a combination of his thoughts on winning plus a stubbornness about doing it his way regardless of what the administration wanted from the players that represent MU.

[bilsu]

What I never understood was why did he go away from starting Burton and JJJ. Roughly halfway through the Big East season when MU was struggling he started both JJJ and Burton, which seemed to get the team going and we got to 9-6. I do not remember if JJJ started only one game, but it seemed like a positive move by Buzz at the time and then he quickly reverted to the original lineup. It was almost like he was throwing the towel in on the season by starting the freshmen, but when it worked he did not want to depend on them.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

What I never understood was why did he go away from starting Burton and JJJ. Roughly halfway through the Big East season when MU was struggling he started both JJJ and Burton, which seemed to get the team going and we got to 9-6. I do not remember if JJJ started only one game, but it seemed like a positive move by Buzz at the time and then he quickly reverted to the original lineup. It was almost like he was throwing the towel in on the season by starting the freshmen, but when it worked he did not want to depend on them.

I remember that game. That was the most energy I remember from the student section all year after the Ohio St. game.

[GGGG]

What I never understood was why did he go away from starting Burton and JJJ. Roughly halfway through the Big East season when MU was struggling he started both JJJ and Burton, which seemed to get the team going and we got to 9-6. I do not remember if JJJ started only one game, but it seemed like a positive move by Buzz at the time and then he quickly reverted to the original lineup. It was almost like he was throwing the towel in on the season by starting the freshmen, but when it worked he did not want to depend on them.

Deonte I will agree with, but if you go back and look at JJJ, he didn't do a lot once conference season came around.  I mean double digit minutes in a few games with very little production.  My recollection of him being passive on the perimeter matches that.  I simply don't think he was ready, especially on the defensive end.

[MU82]

I think people tend to blame Derrick for everything that went wrong last year.

I don't blame Derrick for anything. Derrick was just being as good as he can be. I blame the coach for failing perhaps his most important duty: Putting each player in a position to succeed.

[NersEllenson]

What I never understood was why did he go away from starting Burton and JJJ. Roughly halfway through the Big East season when MU was struggling he started both JJJ and Burton, which seemed to get the team going and we got to 9-6. I do not remember if JJJ started only one game, but it seemed like a positive move by Buzz at the time and then he quickly reverted to the original lineup. It was almost like he was throwing the towel in on the season by starting the freshmen, but when it worked he did not want to depend on them

This...but more so, that when it worked...it proved all those who were arguing for starting the freshman and playing them more right...and Buzz wrong.  His ego couldn't take it.  Also explains why after Dawson played a huge hand in our victory against GTown, Buzz simply couldn't deal with it then gave him 8 minutes next game, and he never again got anything close to 30...

[NersEllenson]

Well that moratorium lasted a few weeks longer than the last one.  Progress.

(Are you ever going to address the point that you were wrong about Deonte's playing time at the end of the Xavier game?)

What would be real progress would be if the few idiots that continue to try to make excuses for Buzz's coaching decisions last season would for once acquiesce and just acknowledge the real reality- that the team didn't stand a snowballs chance in hell of winning at a decent clip with Derrick and Jake getting more minutes than any other players on the team.

I mean check out my signature, we had idiots like BrewCity trying to float such genius theories as Derrick being better for the team than Cadougan. 

On the Burton point, where are you getting your data?  Please link which source you are referencing as far as Burton's entry/exit from the Xavier game?  I'll gladly review the source and then do a little research on my own to verify your point is actually correct - which I don't think it is.

[wadesworld]

It's always fun when I'm away from Scoop for an hour or two and come back to see certain threads have grown from 2 pages to 6 in that short matter of time.  A pretty simple guess at what happened over the course of those 4 pages comes down to one of 2 things about 99.8% of the time this happens.  Either 1) Ners has found a way to turn the thread into a pissing match about how bad Derrick Wilson is and how Magic Dawson is the 6'2" version of Hall of Famer Magic Johnson but only he knows it because only he has played on a high school varsity basketball team in his life or 2) Chicos has taken a thread completely off topic and started telling everyone who will listen how intelligent he is, how many famous people he knows, how it's not what was said here but it's who said something here, how he's a victim and people personally attack him (after he has called out their names on here), and how great of a coach Tom Crean is, especially for taking Dwyane Wade from unwanted by mid-majors to NBA Hall of Famer.

At least it makes things easy to go through.  All it takes is to see whether 80% of the pages are filled with Chicos or Ners and you can understand the entire 4-6 pages that have been built in 2 hours narrowed down to 15 seconds.

In this case, it appears option number 1 is a winner.  If I missed anything beyond, "Derrick sucks!  Magic, I mean John, needs to see the court more!  I played basketball in high school, you're an idiot!" please inform me.  Thank you!

[tower912]

What would be real progress would be if the few idiots that continue to try to make excuses for Buzz's coaching decisions last season would for once acquiesce and just acknowledge the real reality-

So, in other words, if everyone would just give up their opinions and agree with you, you would stop viewing them as idiots and adversaries and move on.    Sad.  

[willie warrior]

So, in other words, if everyone would just give up their opinions and agree with you, you would stop viewing them as idiots and adversaries and move on.    Sad.  

That Sir, could be said about numerous posters here. Sigh....can't...sigh..can't we all just get along?

[NersEllenson]

So, in other words, if everyone would just give up their opinions and agree with you, you would stop viewing them as idiots and adversaries and move on.    Sad.  

You miss the point - the point was that these discussions continue to get provoked by about the same 5 posters who all of last year stood by Buzz's side, and even after PLENTY of proof that Buzz's coaching decisions last year were a train wreck - they still somehow try to defend Buzz's coaching last season.  Buzz was a disaster last year.  Period.

I mean I think the 3rd post in this thread was get an ambulance to Ners house due to Rothstein saying Derrick would start.  And these 5 posters act all up in arms that once again the topic of Derrick is getting discussed...Pretty funny actually.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

What would be real progress would be if the few idiots that continue to try to make excuses for Buzz's coaching decisions last season would for once acquiesce and just acknowledge the real reality- that the team didn't stand a snowballs chance in hell of winning at a decent clip with Derrick and Jake getting more minutes than any other players on the team.

I mean check out my signature, we had idiots like BrewCity trying to float such genius theories as Derrick being better for the team than Cadougan. 

On the Burton point, where are you getting your data?  Please link which source you are referencing as far as Burton's entry/exit from the Xavier game?  I'll gladly review the source and then do a little research on my own to verify your point is actually correct - which I don't think it is.

Easy there, Kemosabe. I come in peace.

There is a lot more common ground here than you think.

#1 Brew City isn't even on this board anymore, so just forget it. You don't need to carry that baggage. 

#2 Nobody in this thread has said that Jake & Wilson were a good combo. What people have said is that BUZZ WILLIAMS thought they were his best combo available. Big difference. Let's be clear about that.

#3 Buzz was/is a wildcard.

#4 Buzz did a poor job with his rotations last season.

The only difference of opinion is WHY Buzz did a poor job. It seems to me that Buzz's rotations had more to do with Buzz thinking he's smarter than everybody else. Buzz thought he could weather the storm with his guys and prove everybody wrong. He'd done it in the past, and he thought he could do it again.

You think Buzz intentionally tanked as a statement to the administration. (correct me if I'm wrong).

That's it. Skip all of the minutia, guys. Look at the big picture.

[GGGG]

On the Burton point, where are you getting your data?  Please link which source you are referencing as far as Burton's entry/exit from the Xavier game?  I'll gladly review the source and then do a little research on my own to verify your point is actually correct - which I don't think it is.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/games/2014/03/13/marquette-65-xavier-68/play_by_play

[Lennys Tap]

You think Buzz intentionally tanked as a statement to the administration. (correct me if I'm wrong).

Exactly. Ners can't believe that anyone with even a little knowledge of basketball would play Derrick Wilson over John Dawson. So, there were only two possible explanations: either a) Buzz knew nothing about basketball or b) Buzz was purposely throwing games. The real answer, that Buzz just disagreed with Ners and thought Derrick gave MU a better chance to win games than John Dawson, was deemed impossible.

His conspiracy theory is, of course, totally nuts, but it serves his purpose. He can say that Buzz knew that Dawson was a better option than Derrick but he was trying to lose.

It will be interesting to watch things unfold this year. Wojo has already named Derrick a team captain and most assume he'll get more minutes than Dawson. If that happens, will Ners decide that Wojo knows nothing about basketball or that he's intentionally throwing games? We know the answer can't be that he's doing it because he thinks Derrick gives him a better chance to win games. This should be fun.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

It's always fun when I'm away from Scoop for an hour or two and come back to see certain threads have grown from 2 pages to 6 in that short matter of time.  A pretty simple guess at what happened over the course of those 4 pages comes down to one of 2 things about 99.8% of the time this happens.  Either 1) Ners has found a way to turn the thread into a pissing match about how bad Derrick Wilson is and how Magic Dawson is the 6'2" version of Hall of Famer Magic Johnson but only he knows it because only he has played on a high school varsity basketball team in his life or 2) Chicos has taken a thread completely off topic and started telling everyone who will listen how intelligent he is, how many famous people he knows, how it's not what was said here but it's who said something here, how he's a victim and people personally attack him (after he has called out their names on here), and how great of a coach Tom Crean is, especially for taking Dwyane Wade from unwanted by mid-majors to NBA Hall of Famer.

At least it makes things easy to go through.  All it takes is to see whether 80% of the pages are filled with Chicos or Ners and you can understand the entire 4-6 pages that have been built in 2 hours narrowed down to 15 seconds.

In this case, it appears option number 1 is a winner.  If I missed anything beyond, "Derrick sucks!  Magic, I mean John, needs to see the court more!  I played basketball in high school, you're an idiot!" please inform me.  Thank you!

+1 trillion