Where would we be without Acker?

[Boozemon Barro]

Acker transferred here to be near his buddy McNeal. There was no recruitment. It was a typical lazy way for Crean to fill out his roster...just as he gave a scholarship to Trend after Stemler rejected him.

That is absolutely spot on. There is nothing bitter about your post at all. I'm new here, am I supposed to put this in "teal" or something?

[ErickJD08]

Looks like you just beat him to it!

Checking the box, Crean's recruits played 56% of the minutes today, scored 61% of the points, made 89% of our treys, grabbed 50% of the rebounds, dished 53% of the assists, and had 80% of the blocked shots.  Meanwhile, they were responsible for just 25% of the turnovers. (and that's not counting the contributions of Fulce and Williams, who committed to MU while Crean was still coach).

Not a bad day for the "empty cupboard."

OK, maybe the term "empty cupboard" is left for interpretation, but I think most people see a cupboard full when there is talent from freshmen to seniors.  When Buzz has the least amount of returning minutes and scorers after one year, that tells me that the "cupboard" was upper classmen heavy.

And by the way, Crean did recruit some players on this team but Buzz is coaching them.  Crean just got his nose rubbed in his own mess by Iowa.  Run the numbers on the Indiana Iowa game.

[Marquette84]

Acker transferred here to be near his buddy McNeal. There was no recruitment. It was a typical lazy way for Crean to fill out his roster...just as he gave a scholarship to Trend after Stemler rejected him.

There is no way Acker would have transferred to MU without Crean offering a scholarship. He wasn't going to pay his own way simply to "be near his buddy."  

In fact, Crean did recruit Acker out of HS, but passed due to concerns over his size.  It was more on Buckley's recommendation that Acker's size would not be a detriment than McNeal's friendship that resulted in the offer.

Did the presence of McNeal influence Acker?  Absolutely.

But there 12 players on the team, all of them had HS buddies they played with, and none of their buddies got a scholarship offer simply to make recruiting easier.

Surprise, Surprise..if its not Chicos its MU84 taking up for TC.  Thanks for crunching the numbers as to today's contributions by Acker, Cubiallian and Hayward.  

Actually, YOU brought it up.  I merely added the supporting detail on just how important Crean's recruits were to the effort today.

Could you get back to all of us with what percentage of team points Jimmy Butler and DJO provide this season?  I suspect DJO and Jimmy Butler account for much more than MO and Cooby.  

Did you forget about Hayward?  

And did you really mention Erik Williams and Fulce?  We both know Buzz recruited and brought both of those guys here...yes Williams verbaled while Crean was still coach, but Buzz was his lead recruiter.  That said, Williams hasn't been much of a contributor.

Wow!  I specifically said I DID NOT include their contributions in the comparison.  What's your point?  Do you think that I should have counted their contributions?  

[ChicosBailBonds]

He's the Most Important Player on the team in many respects.  If only Acker was Big East material.  LOL

[NersEllenson]

He's the Most Important Player on the team in many respects.  If only Acker was Big East material.  LOL

And most player's improvement is due to the coaching they receive...

[ChicosBailBonds]

And most player's improvement is due to the coaching they receive...

Yes, I agree.  That's why most players get better their seniors years.  Note, I said IMPORTANT, not improved. 

[NersEllenson]

Wow!  I specifically said I DID NOT include their contributions in the comparison.  What's your point?  Do you think that I should have counted their contributions?  

If you want to split hairs and take Hayward, Cooby and Mo's season scoring averages combined, and measure them against DJO, Jimmy and Buycks - Buzz's "guys" outscore them 35ppg to 31ppg.  Really, a silly debate to even have..but as we can see, Chicos has now chimed in with his comment "He's the most important player on the team in many respects.  If only Acker were Big East material."  

Pretty much anything you and Chicos can do to keep the Tom Crean love and legacy alive.  I don't have a lot of issues with Crean and can appreciate what he did while at MU - other than how he left the team, university, and how he (from first hand account of a former assistant coach) treated some players and staff like sh$t.  Crean's gone, Buzz has done a phenomonal job with only having 3 players he inherited for year 2 of his coaching job at MU..due to the empty recruiting classes of Crean's last 2 years.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Man are a funny guy.  I said if only he was "Big East Material" because of so many people here saying he sucked, wasn't a Big East player (Hayward said this at every turn for months).

You know what's funny Ners, you can't wait to jump on some people for their comments but don't jump on others...why is that? 

Incidentally, Marquette84 picked Marquette to go to the NCAAs back in October.  One of 2 people on this entire board that did.  Instead of ripping on him, maybe you should tip your hat to him and just acknowledge that he made a great prediction.

[NersEllenson]

Man are a funny guy.  I said if only he was "Big East Material" because of so many people here saying he sucked, wasn't a Big East player (Hayward said this at every turn for months).

You know what's funny Ners, you can't wait to jump on some people for their comments but don't jump on others...why is that? 

Incidentally, Marquette84 picked Marquette to go to the NCAAs back in October.  One of 2 people on this entire board that did.  Instead of ripping on him, maybe you should tip your hat to him and just acknowledge that he made a great prediction.

  Basically I jump on most of your points and MU84, as we disagree about most things...just as you and 84 jump on most of my comments.  No hard feelings by the way, just way it is.  I don't jump on others opinions who I agree with, or at least can see some merit in.  As for 84 prediciting MU goes to the NCAA, not surprising to me as if the team didn't go to the NCAA tourney, he could be critical of the job Buzz did, and say that he expected this team to go to the NCAA and by not doing so, it underachieved.

[Marquette84]

And most player's improvement is due to the coaching they receive...

Agreed.  But it doesn't change the fact that it also takes talented players to receive that coaching.  The cupboard was NOT bare.  There was coachable talent there.

At this point its clear that you simply don't want to admit that Acker, Cuby and Hayward have stepped up this year because it gets in the way of your argument that Crean left the cupboard bare.

Its time to face the truth.

Not only did Crean leave talented senior class last year with the Amigos and Burke.  

And its now absolutely clear that he also left three juniors who were more than capable of stepping up in this, their senior year, and maintaining the same level performance.    

The continuing efforts to trash these players simply because they were recruited by Crean is nothing short of pathetic.  These players are MAJOR contributors on a team that has won 10 games in the Big East.

Acker and Cuby are in the top 10 in the NCAA in Assist/turnover ratio.  Not top 10 in the league--top 10 among all 345 or so NCAA D1 teams!  What is it going to take for you to give these players the respect they deserve?

So kudos to Crean for recruiting Acker, Cuby and Hayward--without those three players this year we'd be in a world of hurt.  

And kudos to Buzz for coaching them and getting enough out of them to attain 10 wins this season.  

[NersEllenson]

Agreed.  But it doesn't change the fact that it also takes talented players to receive that coaching.  The cupboard was NOT bare.  There was coachable talent there.

At this point its clear that you simply don't want to admit that Acker, Cuby and Hayward have stepped up this year because it gets in the way of your argument that Crean left the cupboard bare.

Its time to face the truth.

Not only did Crean leave talented senior class last year with the Amigos and Burke.  

And its now absolutely clear that he also left three juniors who were more than capable of stepping up in this, their senior year, and maintaining the same level performance.    

The continuing efforts to trash these players simply because they were recruited by Crean is nothing short of pathetic.  These players are MAJOR contributors on a team that has won 10 games in the Big East.

Acker and Cuby are in the top 10 in the NCAA in Assist/turnover ratio.  Not top 10 in the league--top 10 among all 345 or so NCAA D1 teams!  What is it going to take for you to give these players the respect they deserve?

So kudos to Crean for recruiting Acker, Cuby and Hayward--without those three players this year we'd be in a world of hurt.  

And kudos to Buzz for coaching them and getting enough out of them to attain 10 wins this season.  

I can agree with something you've written!!  I don't have an issue with Cooby or Mo, and have defended them and not been criticial of their play or performance.  Having said that, I still feel the cupboard was left pretty empty for a coach to only inherit 3 players in his 2nd year at the helm..that is my argument..not about the merit of Mo, Cooby or Zar as players

[flash]

I'm anxious to see what happens next year when the "cupboard" is filled with only Buzz's recruits. 

[Rocco]

Just because you don't get speeding tickets, that doesn't make you an excellent driver.  Try to get the analogy. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

I'm anxious to see what happens next year when the "cupboard" is filled with only Buzz's recruits. 

We all are.  On paper, looks very good but I love senior guards, especially at the point.  That's scary because of how young we will be.  Who replaces Lazar?  It's going to be fun to find out.  Vander I can't wait to see as well as the other kids.

In the meantime, this year hopefully has 6 or 7 more games left to play.

[Rocco]

Agreed Chicos.  We need to enjoy today!! Ill take 6 or 7 more games.  That would be awesome!

[ChicosBailBonds]

  Basically I jump on most of your points and MU84, as we disagree about most things...just as you and 84 jump on most of my comments.  No hard feelings by the way, just way it is.  I don't jump on others opinions who I agree with, or at least can see some merit in.  As for 84 prediciting MU goes to the NCAA, not surprising to me as if the team didn't go to the NCAA tourney, he could be critical of the job Buzz did, and say that he expected this team to go to the NCAA and by not doing so, it underachieved.

You guys really need to stop playing psychiatrist.  If he predicted they wouldn't go, then he's just harping on Buzz.  If he predicts they would go, then he's just setting Buzz up.  You've basically painted him and others into a corner which is entirely unfair.  Marquette84 presented very rational reasons why MU would go to the NCAAs this year and he was skewered for it from a ton of people.  He's owed a lot of apologies, in my opinion, if we do make it.  He stuck his head out there and took a lot of shots he didn't deserve.

[Doctor V]

We all are.  On paper, looks very good but I love senior guards, especially at the point.  That's scary because of how young we will be.  Who replaces Lazar?  It's going to be fun to find out.  Vander I can't wait to see as well as the other kids.

In the meantime, this year hopefully has 6 or 7 more games left to play.

The funny part is that at the start of the season most people had written this year and were looking forward to how "loaded" we will be next year...

Now we are thankful for the senior leadership and Lazar the stud, and fearful in the youthfullness and lack of experience next season...

Next season we will prob be afraid that we cant replace the stud Jimmy Butler and still have to recruit a great "Big"...

Get the point? Eventually if MU keeps having seasons like these and even better, hopefully there will be little to worry about as we will have faith in Buzz, or many of us will

[Marquette84]

I can agree with something you've written!!  I don't have an issue with Cooby or Mo, and have defended them and not been criticial of their play or performance.  Having said that, I still feel the cupboard was left pretty empty for a coach to only inherit 3 players in his 2nd year at the helm..that is my argument..not about the merit of Mo, Cooby or Zar as players

This is your big lie. 

He didn't inherit just 3 players--he inherited 9 that were not seniors his first year:

Lets walk through the scholarships:

1-4:  Seniors. 

5.  Cuby
6.  Hayward
7.  Acker
These are the "3" you say are the only recruits.

8.  Fulce (recruited by Buzz as an assistant, signed by Crean as HC)
9.  Otule (recruited by Buzz as an assistant, signed by Crean as HC)
Whether you think they were Crean recruits or not, these two players held two scholarships of the 13 that Buzz inherited.  Crean couldn't have recruited anyone else with them.  So your "3" is really "5" right off the bat.

10.  Hazel
Hazel is not with the team due to personal indiscretion that took place nearly a year after Crean left.  Hard to believe that this is on him


11.  Christopherson
And its pretty clear Buzz didn't want Christopherson and basically cut him loose. 

12. Mbakwe - left the team five months after Buzz became Head Coach.  Perhaps part of the blame lies with Crean, but not all. 

13.  Taylor (recruited by Buzz as an assistant, signed by Crean as HC), replaced by Jimmy Butler.

[NersEllenson]

This is your big lie. 

He didn't inherit just 3 players--he inherited 9 that were not seniors his first year:

Lets walk through the scholarships:

1-4:  Seniors. 

5.  Cuby
6.  Hayward
7.  Acker
These are the "3" you say are the only recruits.

8.  Fulce (recruited by Buzz as an assistant, signed by Crean as HC)
9.  Otule (recruited by Buzz as an assistant, signed by Crean as HC)
Whether you think they were Crean recruits or not, these two players held two scholarships of the 13 that Buzz inherited.  Crean couldn't have recruited anyone else with them.  So your "3" is really "5" right off the bat.

10.  Hazel
Hazel is not with the team due to personal indiscretion that took place nearly a year after Crean left.  Hard to believe that this is on him


11.  Christopherson
And its pretty clear Buzz didn't want Christopherson and basically cut him loose. 

12. Mbakwe - left the team five months after Buzz became Head Coach.  Perhaps part of the blame lies with Crean, but not all. 

13.  Taylor (recruited by Buzz as an assistant, signed by Crean as HC), replaced by Jimmy Butler.

Thanks for spelling this out - brings a little clarity.  However, my point wasn't what was left in the cupboard in Year 1, but rather this year, Year 2.  You make a good point that there were really 5 players - Hayward, Mo, Cooby, Otule, Fulce.  I stand corrected for that, as I do Hazel - as that would have made 6 players.  However, after that..the cupboard was empty - Christopherson chose to transfer, Mbawke was a head case..and then Taylor and Williams left after Crean didn't remain at MU.  In effect, this left Buzz 4 players down, from what he "should" have had..which created a decent challenge for him in year 2.  I guess it isn't Crean's fault that Taylor and Williams never came here - and Christopherson/Mbawke transferred...but that certainly isn't Buzz's fault either...and he's done a great job re-loading and getting the most out of what remained.