On-Campus Arena Tidbit

[jsglow]

I had forgot about the $550MM...

Over coming a $550 Million Dollar penalty seems unlikely.  And an incredibly bad look for the nba assuming the market continues to support the team. 

It would be a terrible precedent for municipalities to commit to building arenas only to have them uprooted.  You’d never get another one built. 

This isn’t how Adam Silver works.

You're probably right.  I can imagine Silver telling the New York boys, 'Sure you can sell the team, but the new owners can't move it for 20 years.  I shook Gov. Walker's hand on that one and I'm a man of my word.'  (Who really knows, am I right?)

[jsglow]

I had forgot about the $550MM...

Over coming a $550 Million Dollar penalty seems unlikely.  And an incredibly bad look for the nba assuming the market continues to support the team. 

It would be a terrible precedent for municipalities to commit to building arenas only to have them uprooted.  You’d never get another one built. 

This isn’t how Adam Silver works.

But here's how it DOES work.  If the value of the Bucks is determined to be $1.0 billion more located in Seattle as compared to Milwaukee.  And the NBA franchise numbers are getting absolutely crazy these past couple transactions.  But then, maybe an expansion makes more sense. 

[jsglow]

When our super secret study for a new on campus arena is leaked that it is not feasible..........seems to me to be another advantage for the New Yorkers, no?
With respect to negotiations, would have been best to keep this under wraps or in year 5 of current lease, announce that MU is looking at building on campus to keep the NYs guessing. Appears to me that we just lost hand or an element of hand.
So, improve the Al or improve the arena are now the alternatives.
I understand that the NYs may bolt, but we’ll see.

Recall that the Bucks ownership isn't dumb.  They can read a spreadsheet too.  This was more MU proving it to themselves and having a binder to point to.

[Benny B]

Let me see if I understand this right:

1) We play in a brand-spanking-new arena six blocks from campus.

2) We don't like our lease terms.

3) So we look at and some of us get excited by Brother BennyB's Thunderdome on campus.

Unless Brother Benny and his buddies kick in well north of $120 million, I don't see the economics behind building an on-campus arena. I just don't. I admire the administration for evaluating it -- that just makes good sense. But if I had a nickel for every business case evaluated by an entity and then nothing is done, I could afford a small bungalow in San Francisco.

Let's just enjoy the Computing Castle!

I’ll gladly accept all those nickels as an apology when you set foot in the Thunderdome for the first time. 

[We R Final Four]

Recall that the Bucks ownership isn't dumb.  They can read a spreadsheet too.  This was more MU proving it to themselves and having a binder to point to.

Yes.....and when they read that spreadsheet the NY boys say ‘no way is MU building on campus. We don’t have to worry about that.
Why would we give them a good deal? Seems like there is one less place for them to go.”

[mu03eng]

Can you imagine the nightmare that would be?  So eng, being an eng and all, can they raise the roof on the Al and do what I'm saying?  You took a class sometime years ago.

I dont think so but that's more of a civil engineering question, i didn't both with all that simple static stuff  I'd guess the more difficult problem is the footprint, I dont think you can go up without going out.

[jsglow]

I dont think so but that's more of a civil engineering question, i didn't both with all that simple static stuff  I'd guess the more difficult problem is the footprint, I dont think you can go up without going out.

That's my problem too.  I haven't gone up in decades.  Out?   

[Cheeks]

The math may not work as currently constructed, but things can change quickly based on what a donor may wish to do.

USC couldn’t get a basketball arena built forever....for 100 years it was going to be built but never did.... until a donor said here you go with $50M to build the $147M center more than 10 years ago.

My point being things can change depending on sources.  Unlikely to change, but can with the right mix or opportunity.  The USC arena has a few parking structures attached which help to finance it.  Right next to it is a hotel.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

The Phoenix Suns are the latest rumors about threatening to move without public monies to renovate.  $230 million in upgrades, and the Suns would pay for a $80 million practice facility. The owner has denied.
As typical the usual suspects for a potential destination are Las Vegas and Seattle.

I always thought the Los Angels Lakers and Utah Jazz names didn't make sense.  But the Seattle Suns?

They'd probably work out a deal with OKC to get the Sonics name back.  Just like the Hornets in Charlotte.

[Herman Cain]

Ironically, it's actually probably more likely that Buck's ownership sees the value of their franchise rise so high over the next handful of years that a buyout of their Fiserv poison pill becomes a real possibility and the team heads off to Seattle or Vegas (or wherever).  Milwaukee will have gotten its arena paid for, extended the life of pro basketball in the smallest NBA market by a decade, and #mubb will become the signature tenant.

Here's what you guys simply aren't appreciating in this whole discussion.  The math doesn't work.  It's not even close.  And this year's super secret study proved it.  The good news is that MU doesn't have to guess at that anymore.  And as was stated earlier, perhaps they get better prepared for the next negotiating round.

Now the engineers can chime in.  I wonder if it's possible to redevelop the Al and add a balcony for, say $30m, and add 2500 seats.  Then you get a facility that has viability for Christmas break and the early cupcakes and reduce the number of Fiserv rentals down to 10 a year.  I'm sure their experience with the NIT last year has gotten those creative juices flowing.  Because that actually does give you some leverage at a viable price point.

The point you are making above about the  Bucks is something I have written about in several threads.  However, I also agree with Chicos comment below. Hence, MU should always be in the mode of either building a new arena or as you point out modifying the Al.

In the meantime we have to work with the Bucks owners the best we can on the next round. MU has some influence in that we help the Arena get the NCAA tournament games. For whatever it is worth, an AD at a Blue Blood school that I know, who happens to be very close to our AD,  told me that he thinks MU actually got a very good deal with the Bucks . His view is the present value over several renewal cycles will still be less than the cost of a new building, and that the Forum is sufficiently close to the school that it captures the essence of an on campus arena with student attendance etc.  Finally he noted the combination of the Al and an NBA arena sells well from a recruiting perspective. 

The math may not work as currently constructed, but things can change quickly based on what a donor may wish to do.

USC couldn’t get a basketball arena built forever....for 100 years it was going to be built but never did.... until a donor said here you go with $50M to build the $147M center more than 10 years ago.

My point being things can change depending on sources.  Unlikely to change, but can with the right mix or opportunity.  The USC arena has a few parking structures attached which help to finance it.  Right next to it is a hotel.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I think a lot of assumptions are being made about the results of the study. My guess is that they showed an on campus arena is 100% feasible for MU.

Just because something is feasible doesn't mean it's the best option. For now,  the best option for all parties is that MU remains in the Fiserv. As long as that remains true they will remain in the Fiserv.

Dish is right though. The most interesting questions with this article are who leaked this and why now?

[Bocephys]

They'd probably work out a deal with OKC to get the Sonics name back.  Just like the Hornets in Charlotte.

I think Seattle kept everything in the divorce. Like Cleveland did when Baltimore came calling.

[jsglow]

I think Seattle kept everything in the divorce. Like Cleveland did when Baltimore came calling.

It'll be interesting if NHL expansion will impact future NBA decisions.  Pretty rare to have both.

[dgies9156]

I’ll gladly accept all those nickels as an apology when you set foot in the Thunderdome for the first time.

Brother Benny, so long as I get a promise of a first row seat behind the Warrior bench forever (embalm me and face me toward mid-court after I'm gone) in the BennyB Thunderdome, I'm OK with that!

Is Chicos gonna advertise there?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

It'll be interesting if NHL expansion will impact future NBA decisions.  Pretty rare to have both.

11 arenas are shared between NBA and NHL teams.  LA has two NBA teams and one NHL team in the Staples Center.

There's actually only four markets with separate arenas.  Miami (although the NHL team is in Broward County), Phoenix and Minneapolis/St. Paul (one team plays in each), and the Bay Area (hockey team in San Jose, basketball team in Oakland). 

[jsglow]

11 arenas are shared between NBA and NHL teams.  LA has two NBA teams and one NHL team in the Staples Center.

There's actually only four markets with separate arenas.  Miami (although the NHL team is in Broward County), Phoenix and Minneapolis/St. Paul (one team plays in each), and the Bay Area (hockey team in San Jose, basketball team in Oakland).

Wasn't talking separate arenas.  Was speculating about cities that have both NHL and NBA.  Seattle has a population of 725,000. Any city of that size have both?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Seattle Tacoma is the fifteenth largest metropolitan area in the US.

Minneapolis / St. Paul is 16
Denver is 19

[jsglow]

Seattle Tacoma is the fifteenth largest metropolitan area in the US.

Minneapolis / St. Paul is 16
Denver is 19

Okay.  Are there northern top 14 that don't?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Okay.  Are there northern top 14 that don't?

No

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Wasn't talking separate arenas.  Was speculating about cities that have both NHL and NBA.  Seattle has a population of 725,000. Any city of that size have both?

New York City Area (20,320,876): Nets, Knicks, Rangers, Devils and Islanders
Los Angeles Area (13,353,907): Ducks, Kings, Clippers, and Lakers
Chicago (9,533,040): Bulls and Blackhawks
Dallas (7,399,662): Mavericks and Stars
Toronto (6,418,000): Raptors and Maple Leafs
Washington DC (6,216,589): Wizards and Caps
Miami (6,158,824): Heat and Panthers
Philadelphia (6,096,120): 76ers and Flyers
Boston (4,836,531): Bruins and Celtics
Phoenix (4,737,270): Coyotes and Suns
Detroit (4,313,002): Red Wings and Pistons
Seattle (3,867,046): ??? & ???
Twin Cities (3,600,618): Wild and T-Wolves
Denver (2,888,227): Avalanche and Nuggets

So Seattle wouldn't be the smallest metro with both NHL and NBA but it would be pretty close. Interestingly, both Twin Cities and Denver have NFL and MLB teams as well.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Okay.  Are there northern top 14 that don't?

The only ones in the top 14 without both an NBA and NHL franchise are:

#5 Houston
#9 Atlanta
#12 San Francisco
#13 Inland Empire

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

This is probably just as important however.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_metropolitan_areas_by_per_capita_income

Seattle is #3 on this list.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

This is probably just as important however.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_metropolitan_areas_by_per_capita_income

Seattle is #3 on this list.

Get Hawaii some major league teams STAT!

[muwarrior69]

I’ll gladly accept all those nickels as an apology when you set foot in the Thunderdome Eagle's Nest for the first time.

FIFY

[NorthernDancerColt]

“The agreement also includes a non-relocation clause. Asked about a roughly $550 million penalty that the Bucks would pay if the team did move during the lease, Edens said, "I think it's fair to say we're not going anywhere ... They built it with a financial penalty that is so punitive it would be not something you would consider, so it's a firm commitment."

“So punitive” as in: the cost of the arena at the time of construction, roughly half of which was footed by taxpayers not named Edens and Lasry et al. Wes has a way with words.