MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: GoldenWarrior11 on December 14, 2018, 12:05:34 PM
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https://www.jsonline.com/story/money/real-estate/commercial/2018/12/14/marquette-looked-building-its-own-downtown-basketball-arena/2280320002/ (https://www.jsonline.com/story/money/real-estate/commercial/2018/12/14/marquette-looked-building-its-own-downtown-basketball-arena/2280320002/)
Interesting insight from Tom Daykin. I guess we were having discussions about actually building an on-campus arena.
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Glad they looked into it.
Even more glad they took a pass.
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I'm also glad they passed, but after reading this, I don't think this is over with.
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Agreed, PTM.
The length of the next lease term will tell us a lot on this.
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I'm also glad they passed, but after reading this, I don't think this is over with.
Agree. Those seven years will go by fast.
When that plot of land was first acquired, it occurred to me that, despite the stated plans, it would have been a perfect spot for a 10 or 11,000 seat arena, and had the Al not been built so recently, just maybe MU could have made a case to boosters and alums.
Of course, if the Al hadn't been built, the MBB program, in particular, might be on different footing.
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10,000 seems too small, but that's just me.
You build the arena, renovate the Al into a fieldhouse for the rest of the sports. The Al will need a refresh soon anyway. Killing a lot of birds here.
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Town Bank naming rights partner? Not The Glow Dome?
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The Al will need a refresh soon anyway. Killing a lot of birds here.
What do you mean?
I thought we just had the doors widened.
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What do you mean?
I thought we just had the doors widened.
Well done sir, well done.
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Fake News!!!
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Speaking of new business school, I’m hearing likely destination where McCormick is. Tear down Weasler potentially. Interesting.
Donor wanting to move quickly, perhaps quicker than others are ready to move.
Makes you wonder if that’s the location, then where does Rec center go...though I also heard B School and Rec Cent can go in that location where McCormick is from Wisconsin Ave up 16th to Wells.
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https://www.jsonline.com/story/money/real-estate/commercial/2018/12/14/marquette-looked-building-its-own-downtown-basketball-arena/2280320002/ (https://www.jsonline.com/story/money/real-estate/commercial/2018/12/14/marquette-looked-building-its-own-downtown-basketball-arena/2280320002/)
Interesting insight from Tom Daykin. I guess we were having discussions about actually building an on-campus arena.
Ma and Pa ar gonna bee pissed, aina?
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Definitely doesn't sound like it's over with. I have no idea what the lease numbers are for the Forvm, but if they looked at it earlier this year, they will definitely keep their options open as we move toward the next lease negotiation.
I agree that 10,000 sounds too small. I'd prefer about 12,000.
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Just ta fook wit all y'all, ders a scale model of da proposed buildin', hey?
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Ma and Pa ar gonna bee pissed, aina?
Not at all. Cursory look-see. Rejection. Glad the Town Bank guys assisted. Easy and obvious call. And yes Mike is POd about the lease. New world without the Senator.
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4ever
No way!! There is not a model of the joint that is not being built, is there? All a ploy to outsmart the Buck’s brass.
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O eye cee, but he's Dr. Lovell in my circles, hey?
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4ever
No way!! There is not a model of the joint that is not being built, is there? All a ploy to outsmart the Buck’s brass.
My sources tell me otherwise, hey?
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Just ta fook wit all y'all, ders a scale model of da proposed buildin', hey?
(https://media.giphy.com/media/OCMGLUo7d5jJ6/giphy.gif?cid=3640f6095c140f26493733374915978a)
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4ever
How high up do your sources go?
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Speaking of new business school, I’m hearing likely destination where McCormick is. Tear down Weasler potentially. Interesting.
Donor wanting to move quickly, perhaps quicker than others are ready to move.
Makes you wonder if that’s the location, then where does Rec center go...though I also heard B School and Rec Cent can go in that location where McCormick is from Wisconsin Ave up 16th to Wells.
Negatory. The master plan has it as part of Innovation Alley on the West side of 16th between Wisconsin and Michigan.
The new Wellness Center is going where McCormick is.
Note that they are arranging campus so that social stuff is North of Wisconsin and Academics is South.
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Not at all. Cursory look-see. Rejection. Glad the Town Bank guys assisted. Easy and obvious call. And yes Mike is POd about the lease. New world without the Senator.
An on-campus arena idea is just a saber that will be rattled any time the Bucks guys try to hose us in the lease negotiations. It's always good to have a Plan B to trot out.
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Negatory. The master plan has it as part of Innovation Alley on the West side of 16th between Wisconsin and Michigan.
The new Wellness Center is going where McCormick is.
Note that they are arranging campus so that social stuff is North of Wisconsin and Academics is South.
Good to know, I heard it from someone at MU this week while traveling. What this person described to me is how you described it, but said there is a high end donor that wants to put B School there instead and that’s the rub currently being vetted. Don’t know if true, but person has been reliable in past. Either way, good to see progress.
Sounds like they are waiting to start new project and take McCormick down as part of that to save money....2 for 1 as it were rather than two independent projects to tear down and then build.
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What’s interesting to me is who leaked this to the JS and why now.
Things that make you go hmm...
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FWIW, what I was told is that MU had some sticker shock with the lease, was able to negotiate it down, and got most of the concessions they wanted from the Bucks. It was a bitch of a process, but it got done.
Feigin won't be around when they negotiate the next one. Speculating here, but if young Lasry takes his place, I think that is good news for MU.
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The Bucks would love for MU to leave. Free up more nights for bigger events. These guys know how to make money. They would find a way to sell out the circus at the Forum.
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The Bucks would love for MU to leave. Free up more nights for bigger events. These guys know how to make money. They would find a way to sell out the circus at the Forum.
Topless jugglers, a’ina?
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4ever
How high up do your sources go?
To the point of having a face to face meeting about it with Dr. Lovell, in which his support was gauged.
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An on-campus arena idea is just a saber that will be rattled any time the Bucks guys try to hose us in the lease negotiations. It's always good to have a Plan B to trot out.
PlanB:
MU: If you don't agree to our rental offer were going to build our own place.
Bucks Owners: Go ahead, build your own place, but with no beer sales on campus your lucky to get 5 season ticket holders.
MU: Where do we sign.
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I wonder how much the basketball team's recent swoon affected the initial negotiations--when did they happen?
I'd think that Bucks/FF were able to get more of a bargain since MU was not playing as well and attendance had been lagging. And, now that the basketball team has popped back on the national scene and had two strong attendance games in the FF, could this leak be an attempt to re-establish some leverage in the future negotiations?
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The Bucks would love for MU to leave. Free up more nights for bigger events. These guys know how to make money. They would find a way to sell out the circus at the Forum.
Not everything has sold out so far, and this is the first year of the arena.
They won't kick aside 20 dates. They won't be able to fill them.
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PlanB:
MU: If you don't agree to our rental offer were going to build our own place.
Bucks Owners: Go ahead, build your own place, but with no beer sales on campus your lucky to get 5 season ticket holders.
MU: Where do we sign.
Why no beer sales? That'd be up to Marquette to decide for themselves.
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What’s interesting to me is who leaked this to the JS and why now.
Things that make you go hmm...
Because MU is trying to drum up chatter for the Thunderdome campaign before it kicks off following the Natty.
Benny's doing pretty well in the market lately by trading volatility.
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The Bucks should theoretically hate to see MU build an arena. Besides losing MU as a tenant, the hypothetical MU arena would very much compete for events with Fiserv.
I would love to see MU play in the tournament in Milwaukee though, like when Nova played in Philly a few years ago.
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Keep the FF for 4-5 dates, and use the on-campus arena for the other 15 dates. Likely just a bargaining ploy, but a good strategy to get a favorable deal. The only alternative is the MECCA.
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Sounds like they are waiting to start new project and take McCormick down as part of that to save money....2 for 1 as it were rather than two independent projects to tear down and then build.
Yep. They even have a few folks working in offices in McCormick. If it was completely empty it could be considered an "abandoned building" and the City could force MU to knock it down before they are ready to put up its replacement.
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One positive that would come of this is Scoopers would stop crying about how much we spend on basketball and how our on court results don’t match up with Duke.
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The only alternative is the MECCA.
I would be living one of my recurring dreams where I'm back in our first house we bought before our first daughter was born. At first it's sentimental then I start remembering all the reasons we moved away.
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The Bucks would love for MU to leave. Free up more nights for bigger events. These guys know how to make money. They would find a way to sell out the circus at the Forum.
Como what?
Then why am I daily getting “50% off concert tickets!” And “$25 Eric church tickets!” And “BOGO UFC and WWE tickets” emails from Fiserv the days of or the days before the event. They are not selling out half of the stuff rolling in there.
Seriously, there is a UFC fight tomorrow that is national TV tomorrow, email today for 50% off tickets.
I have gone to 4 events there and for all of them I have paid half the originally planned price!
Or for Eric Church who is a pretty big country star, for tickets that are $75 retail for $25.
I don’t think they are selling out what they thought they would.
Now Elton John And Metallica And food fighters, sure cause those acts are rarely around.
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Now Elton John And Metallica And food fighters, sure cause those acts are rarely around.
Everyone loves a good Food Fight!!
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Como what?
Then why am I daily getting “50% off concert tickets!” And “$25 Eric church tickets!” And “BOGO UFC and WWE tickets” emails from Fiserv the days of or the days before the event. They are not selling out half of the stuff rolling in there.
Seriously, there is a UFC fight tomorrow that is national TV tomorrow, email today for 50% off tickets.
I have gone to 4 events there and for all of them I have paid half the originally planned price!
Or for Eric Church who is a pretty big country star, for tickets that are $75 retail for $25.
I don’t think they are selling out what they thought they would.
Now Elton John And Metallica And food fighters, sure cause those acts are rarely around.
Not to mention the rent MU pays them that they no longer get if MU is not renting the building...
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well since I advocated for the blue/gold fund to buy the arena years ago and then take uwm as a tenant and book concerts/events themselves, I obviously think MU is wise to explore an 'on campus' arena. The Bucks gouge may have finally shaken them awake.
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Yeah. No way the Bucks want MU to leave. That's 15-17 extra dates they need to work to fill.
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The Bucks want MU is badly that they had such friendly lease discussions. MU felt so wanted they hired a company to develop on campus arena. Connect the dots, folks.
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Have had dealings with the Bucks primary owners over the years. They are pure sharks. They knew they had MU in a hard spot and drove a very hard bargain. Full retail was paid. Deal is done now and we can't look back.
The question is can an on site arena be done. I say yes, but they need to start now on putting together the financing. Need a lead donor of about $50 million then finance $150 million. Throw in some naming rights and the deal can get done.
Has to be a low frills arena though. I thought when interest rates were lower there was an outside chance MU could finance its own arena. will be a little more expensive now.
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The Bucks would love for MU to leave. Free up more nights for bigger events
I hope that wouldn't be the case. Many dark nights at Fiserv Forum. It's not MSG in terms of events.
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Have had dealings with the Bucks primary owners over the years. They are pure sharks. They knew they had MU in a hard spot and drove a very hard bargain. Full retail was paid. Deal is done now and we can't look back.
The question is can an on site arena be done. I say yes, but they need to start now on putting together the financing. Need a lead donor of about $50 million then finance $150 million. Throw in some naming rights and the deal can get done.
Hermie, the vision is for the entire complex to have an on campus hotel and the arena would seat about 12k and be hockey accessible. Of course, concerts etc are a given.
Think Xavier's facility as a prototype.
Has to be a low frills arena though. I thought when interest rates were lower there was an outside chance MU could finance its own arena. will be a little more expensive now.
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The Bucks want MU is badly that they had such friendly lease discussions. MU felt so wanted they hired a company to develop on campus arena. Connect the dots, folks.
The Bucks play very hard ball with everyone. The Bucks need MU way more than they let on. An on campus arena would be a disaster for everyone involved.
Another arena in MKE would be stupid, that would make more than a dozen. There is not nearly enough content to go around to support that number of venues
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I was driving up to Michigan tonight and thinking how cut throat it is in the Chicago/Milwaukee area for events. SummerFest and Lolla will always draw and aren’t at traditional arenas. Chicago has The World (whatever corporate sponsor) Ampitheatre in Tinley, Sears Centre, AllState, United Center, Wintrust, Soldier Field, and Wrigley. Then there’s Alpine and Ravinia, and then Fiserv and the Mecca. Granted, all aren’t always competing for the same things (Stones aren’t playing Sears Centre), but it’s crazy how many venues there are in a two-three hour drive for most folks.
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The Bucks want MU is badly that they had such friendly lease discussions. MU felt so wanted they hired a company to develop on campus arena. Connect the dots, folks.
Very easy dots to connect. MU had no reasonable alternative this time around. That allowed the Bucks to jack up the price. Doesn't mean that they didn't want MU in there. They just wanted to MU in there for as much money as they could squeeze. That's good business. I think exploring the possibility of an on campus arena was a wise move on MU's part.
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I was driving up to Michigan tonight and thinking how cut throat it is in the Chicago/Milwaukee area for events. SummerFest and Lolla will always draw and aren’t at traditional arenas. Chicago has The World (whatever corporate sponsor) Ampitheatre in Tinley, Sears Centre, AllState, United Center, Wintrust, Soldier Field, and Wrigley. Then there’s Alpine and Ravinia, and then Fiserv and the Mecca. Granted, all aren’t always competing for the same things (Stones aren’t playing Sears Centre), but it’s crazy how many venues there are in a two-three hour drive for most folks.
Alpine is a great example. Staple for the Dead....then more recently weekends of DMB and Buffet for years. Now all gone. Alpine Valley dead in the water. Scrambling for anything. Hank jr? Damn. The good ole days.
3 nights of the dead followed by bob opening for JGB 3 months later. Days gone.
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Very easy dots to connect. MU had no reasonable alternative this time around. That allowed the Bucks to jack up the price. Doesn't mean that they didn't want MU in there. They just wanted to MU in there for as much money as they could squeeze. That's good business. I think exploring the possibility of an on campus arena was a wise move on MU's part.
Yeah. If they didn’t want MU, MU wouldn’t be playing in the Fiserv.
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The Bucks want MU is badly that they had such friendly lease discussions. MU felt so wanted they hired a company to develop on campus arena. Connect the dots, folks.
Nope. Milwaukee does not get enough events for the FF to pass on 15 plus MU rentals.
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Yeah. If they didn’t want MU, MU wouldn’t be playing in the Fiserv.
Just go ask the Milwaukee Admirals that question. Bucks never returned their calls.
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Just go ask the Milwaukee Admirals that question. Bucks never returned their calls.
Which is rather surprising don't they average a decent crowd for an AHL team?
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The Bucks would love for MU to leave. Free up more nights for bigger events. These guys know how to make money. They would find a way to sell out the circus at the Forum.
Just go ask the Milwaukee Admirals that question. Bucks never returned their calls.
This year MU has 13 night games at the FF, of which 10 are on Tues or Wed, not exactly prime “nights” to fill the FF.
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Ironically, it's actually probably more likely that Buck's ownership sees the value of their franchise rise so high over the next handful of years that a buyout of their Fiserv poison pill becomes a real possibility and the team heads off to Seattle or Vegas (or wherever). Milwaukee will have gotten its arena paid for, extended the life of pro basketball in the smallest NBA market by a decade, and #mubb will become the signature tenant.
Here's what you guys simply aren't appreciating in this whole discussion. The math doesn't work. It's not even close. And this year's super secret study proved it. The good news is that MU doesn't have to guess at that anymore. And as was stated earlier, perhaps they get better prepared for the next negotiating round.
Now the engineers can chime in. I wonder if it's possible to redevelop the Al and add a balcony for, say $30m, and add 2500 seats. Then you get a facility that has viability for Christmas break and the early cupcakes and reduce the number of Fiserv rentals down to 10 a year. I'm sure their experience with the NIT last year has gotten those creative juices flowing. Because that actually does give you some leverage at a viable price point.
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Which is rather surprising don't they average a decent crowd for an AHL team?
The Admirals for 41 date regular season, averages between 5,400 to 6,000 per game. They start out very slow and pick up in attendance after football season. Also, added by their concert series and other promos.
Last night at UWM Panther Arena they had a full house in sales. At over 9,300.
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If Cintas is the prototype, I’d stay at Fiserv. Cintas is fine, also feels very mid- majory inside. They also sell beer however.
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Just go ask the Milwaukee Admirals that question. Bucks never returned their calls.
Knot true, hey?
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Ironically, it's actually probably more likely that Buck's ownership sees the value of their franchise rise so high over the next handful of years that a buyout of their Fiserv poison pill becomes a real possibility and the team heads off to Seattle or Vegas (or wherever). Milwaukee will have gotten its arena paid for, extended the life of pro basketball in the smallest NBA market by a decade, and #mubb will become the signature tenant.
Here's what you guys simply aren't appreciating in this whole discussion. The math doesn't work. It's not even close. And this year's super secret study proved it. The good news is that MU doesn't have to guess at that anymore. And as was stated earlier, perhaps they get better prepared for the next negotiating round.
Now the engineers can chime in. I wonder if it's possible to redevelop the Al and add a balcony for, say $30m, and add 2500 seats. Then you get a facility that has viability for Christmas break and the early cupcakes and reduce the number of Fiserv rentals down to 10 a year. I'm sure their experience with the NIT last year has gotten those creative juices flowing. Because that actually does give you some leverage at a viable price point.
This, Bucks are just as likely to not be here next round of negotiations. Owners want to extract value, I'm guessing they sell in the next 5 years. If MU goes and builds a stadium everyone gets screwed there
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This, Bucks are just as likely to not be here next round of negotiations. Owners want to extract value, I'm guessing they sell in the next 5 years. If MU goes and builds a stadium everyone gets screwed there
Can you imagine the nightmare that would be? So eng, being an eng and all, can they raise the roof on the Al and do what I'm saying? You took a class sometime years ago.
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I'll add one more thing to the discussion. You guys all remember the grandiose plans MU had with the Athletic Research and Performance Center and that the Bucks were involved? And all that went up in smoke. Marquette clearly now understands what this ownership group is all about and the contrast they represent relative to other major business leaders in town who actually do have Milwaukee's interest at heart as part of their make-up. The New Yorkers will be long gone, never to be heard from again, and we'll still be here.
Not to derail the thread but every Wisconsinite sure ought to appreciate Mark Attanasio and allocate an appropriate share of their entertainment dollars accordingly.
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They just wanted to MU in there for as much money as they could squeeze. That's good business.
The older I get the more I disagree with this statement. Sometimes the best deal leaves money on the table. All depends on your future desires... Another clue as to Bucks ownership plans as alluded to by others on the thread.
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NM
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When our super secret study for a new on campus arena is leaked that it is not feasible..........seems to me to be another advantage for the New Yorkers, no?
With respect to negotiations, would have been best to keep this under wraps or in year 5 of current lease, announce that MU is looking at building on campus to keep the NYs guessing. Appears to me that we just lost hand or an element of hand.
So, improve the Al or improve the arena are now the alternatives.
I understand that the NYs may bolt, but we’ll see.
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This, Bucks are just as likely to not be here next round of negotiations. Owners want to extract value, I'm guessing they sell in the next 5 years. If MU goes and builds a stadium everyone gets screwed there
“The agreement also includes a non-relocation clause. Asked about a roughly $550 million penalty that the Bucks would pay if the team did move during the lease, Edens said, "I think it's fair to say we're not going anywhere ... They built it with a financial penalty that is so punitive it would be not something you would consider, so it's a firm commitment."
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There’s a lot to unpack in this story. I do think there was a reason to spill the story now, though. MU could expand the Al to the south, move some offices across the street, and add another 2000 seats for a decent alternative. Maybe they’ve started to negotiate an extension which is why the story was leaked.
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Ironically, it's actually probably more likely that Buck's ownership sees the value of their franchise rise so high over the next handful of years that a buyout of their Fiserv poison pill becomes a real possibility and the team heads off to Seattle or Vegas (or wherever). Milwaukee will have gotten its arena paid for, extended the life of pro basketball in the smallest NBA market by a decade, and #mubb will become the signature tenant.
Here's what you guys simply aren't appreciating in this whole discussion. The math doesn't work. It's not even close. And this year's super secret study proved it. The good news is that MU doesn't have to guess at that anymore. And as was stated earlier, perhaps they get better prepared for the next negotiating round.
On point 1- I've thought that same thing in the past, but I was told by someone close to the team that there is "no way" the NBA would allow that to happen. Take it FWIW.
Point 2- The fact that it took a study to figure that out is crazy to me. The math was obvious from the start.
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Point 2- The fact that it took a study to figure that out is crazy to me. The math was obvious from the start.
As a person who does these types of analyses for a living, I can tell you that even when everyone already knows what the answer is going to be, often you still have to go through the formal process simply to have a document to show people who want to argue with you.
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JS, where are you are getting this poison pill Bucks language? There was a clause in the sale that if arena financing wasn’t in place the nba would buy the team back. What is the other poison pill?
I'm not recalling all the details but there are key provisions requiring the payoff of the public debt if the Bucks skip town within a certain number of years. They can go anytime. But they have to pay for the building on their way out. In fact, if my memory serves, the 'Milwaukee payoff' is actually substantially more than that as a disincentive.
The 'NBA buying the team back section' protected the New Yorker's profit if they couldn't get an arena done. They would have been paid 1.2x (don't quote the figure; pure guess) on their initial investment if the league bought the franchise back but stood to make very much more if they could make the arena happen.
It was actually a well structured deal from all sides, especially when you recall that the public investment was around 50%, historically low in the last 30 years.
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As a person who does these types of analyses for a living, I can tell you that even when everyone already knows what the answer is going to be, often you still have to go through the formal process simply to have a document to show people who want to argue with you.
Like dos guys over der on Scoop! ;D
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I'm not recalling all the details but there are key provisions requiring the payoff of the public debt if the Bucks skip town within a certain number of years. They can go anytime. But they have to pay for the building on their way out. In fact, if my memory serves, the 'Milwaukee payoff' is actually substantially more than that as a disincentive.
The 'NBA buying the team back section' protected the New Yorker's profit if they couldn't get an arena done. They would have been paid 1.2x (don't quote the figure; pure guess) on their initial investment if the league bought the franchise back but stood to make very much more if they could make the arena happen.
It was actually a well structured deal from all sides, especially when you recall that the public investment was around 50%, historically low in the last 30 years.
I had forgot about the $550MM...
Over coming a $550 Million Dollar penalty seems unlikely. And an incredibly bad look for the nba assuming the market continues to support the team.
It would be a terrible precedent for municipalities to commit to building arenas only to have them uprooted. You’d never get another one built.
This isn’t how Adam Silver works.
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Let me see if I understand this right:
1) We play in a brand-spanking-new arena six blocks from campus.
2) We don't like our lease terms.
3) So we look at and some of us get excited by Brother BennyB's Thunderdome on campus.
Unless Brother Benny and his buddies kick in well north of $120 million, I don't see the economics behind building an on-campus arena. I just don't. I admire the administration for evaluating it -- that just makes good sense. But if I had a nickel for every business case evaluated by an entity and then nothing is done, I could afford a small bungalow in San Francisco.
Let's just enjoy the Computing Castle!
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The Phoenix Suns are the latest rumors about threatening to move without public monies to renovate. $230 million in upgrades, and the Suns would pay for a $80 million practice facility. The owner has denied.
As typical the usual suspects for a potential destination are Las Vegas and Seattle.
I always thought the Los Angels Lakers and Utah Jazz names didn't make sense. But the Seattle Suns?
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I had forgot about the $550MM...
Over coming a $550 Million Dollar penalty seems unlikely. And an incredibly bad look for the nba assuming the market continues to support the team.
It would be a terrible precedent for municipalities to commit to building arenas only to have them uprooted. You’d never get another one built.
This isn’t how Adam Silver works.
You're probably right. I can imagine Silver telling the New York boys, 'Sure you can sell the team, but the new owners can't move it for 20 years. I shook Gov. Walker's hand on that one and I'm a man of my word.' (Who really knows, am I right?)
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I had forgot about the $550MM...
Over coming a $550 Million Dollar penalty seems unlikely. And an incredibly bad look for the nba assuming the market continues to support the team.
It would be a terrible precedent for municipalities to commit to building arenas only to have them uprooted. You’d never get another one built.
This isn’t how Adam Silver works.
But here's how it DOES work. If the value of the Bucks is determined to be $1.0 billion more located in Seattle as compared to Milwaukee. And the NBA franchise numbers are getting absolutely crazy these past couple transactions. But then, maybe an expansion makes more sense.
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When our super secret study for a new on campus arena is leaked that it is not feasible..........seems to me to be another advantage for the New Yorkers, no?
With respect to negotiations, would have been best to keep this under wraps or in year 5 of current lease, announce that MU is looking at building on campus to keep the NYs guessing. Appears to me that we just lost hand or an element of hand.
So, improve the Al or improve the arena are now the alternatives.
I understand that the NYs may bolt, but we’ll see.
Recall that the Bucks ownership isn't dumb. They can read a spreadsheet too. This was more MU proving it to themselves and having a binder to point to.
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Let me see if I understand this right:
1) We play in a brand-spanking-new arena six blocks from campus.
2) We don't like our lease terms.
3) So we look at and some of us get excited by Brother BennyB's Thunderdome on campus.
Unless Brother Benny and his buddies kick in well north of $120 million, I don't see the economics behind building an on-campus arena. I just don't. I admire the administration for evaluating it -- that just makes good sense. But if I had a nickel for every business case evaluated by an entity and then nothing is done, I could afford a small bungalow in San Francisco.
Let's just enjoy the Computing Castle!
I’ll gladly accept all those nickels as an apology when you set foot in the Thunderdome for the first time.
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Recall that the Bucks ownership isn't dumb. They can read a spreadsheet too. This was more MU proving it to themselves and having a binder to point to.
Yes.....and when they read that spreadsheet the NY boys say ‘no way is MU building on campus. We don’t have to worry about that.
Why would we give them a good deal? Seems like there is one less place for them to go.”
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Can you imagine the nightmare that would be? So eng, being an eng and all, can they raise the roof on the Al and do what I'm saying? You took a class sometime years ago.
I dont think so but that's more of a civil engineering question, i didn't both with all that simple static stuff ;D I'd guess the more difficult problem is the footprint, I dont think you can go up without going out.
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I dont think so but that's more of a civil engineering question, i didn't both with all that simple static stuff ;D I'd guess the more difficult problem is the footprint, I dont think you can go up without going out.
That's my problem too. I haven't gone up in decades. Out? :o
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The math may not work as currently constructed, but things can change quickly based on what a donor may wish to do.
USC couldn’t get a basketball arena built forever....for 100 years it was going to be built but never did.... until a donor said here you go with $50M to build the $147M center more than 10 years ago.
My point being things can change depending on sources. Unlikely to change, but can with the right mix or opportunity. The USC arena has a few parking structures attached which help to finance it. Right next to it is a hotel.
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The Phoenix Suns are the latest rumors about threatening to move without public monies to renovate. $230 million in upgrades, and the Suns would pay for a $80 million practice facility. The owner has denied.
As typical the usual suspects for a potential destination are Las Vegas and Seattle.
I always thought the Los Angels Lakers and Utah Jazz names didn't make sense. But the Seattle Suns?
They'd probably work out a deal with OKC to get the Sonics name back. Just like the Hornets in Charlotte.
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Ironically, it's actually probably more likely that Buck's ownership sees the value of their franchise rise so high over the next handful of years that a buyout of their Fiserv poison pill becomes a real possibility and the team heads off to Seattle or Vegas (or wherever). Milwaukee will have gotten its arena paid for, extended the life of pro basketball in the smallest NBA market by a decade, and #mubb will become the signature tenant.
Here's what you guys simply aren't appreciating in this whole discussion. The math doesn't work. It's not even close. And this year's super secret study proved it. The good news is that MU doesn't have to guess at that anymore. And as was stated earlier, perhaps they get better prepared for the next negotiating round.
Now the engineers can chime in. I wonder if it's possible to redevelop the Al and add a balcony for, say $30m, and add 2500 seats. Then you get a facility that has viability for Christmas break and the early cupcakes and reduce the number of Fiserv rentals down to 10 a year. I'm sure their experience with the NIT last year has gotten those creative juices flowing. Because that actually does give you some leverage at a viable price point.
The point you are making above about the Bucks is something I have written about in several threads. However, I also agree with Chicos comment below. Hence, MU should always be in the mode of either building a new arena or as you point out modifying the Al.
In the meantime we have to work with the Bucks owners the best we can on the next round. MU has some influence in that we help the Arena get the NCAA tournament games. For whatever it is worth, an AD at a Blue Blood school that I know, who happens to be very close to our AD, told me that he thinks MU actually got a very good deal with the Bucks . His view is the present value over several renewal cycles will still be less than the cost of a new building, and that the Forum is sufficiently close to the school that it captures the essence of an on campus arena with student attendance etc. Finally he noted the combination of the Al and an NBA arena sells well from a recruiting perspective.
The math may not work as currently constructed, but things can change quickly based on what a donor may wish to do.
USC couldn’t get a basketball arena built forever....for 100 years it was going to be built but never did.... until a donor said here you go with $50M to build the $147M center more than 10 years ago.
My point being things can change depending on sources. Unlikely to change, but can with the right mix or opportunity. The USC arena has a few parking structures attached which help to finance it. Right next to it is a hotel.
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I think a lot of assumptions are being made about the results of the study. My guess is that they showed an on campus arena is 100% feasible for MU.
Just because something is feasible doesn't mean it's the best option. For now, the best option for all parties is that MU remains in the Fiserv. As long as that remains true they will remain in the Fiserv.
Dish is right though. The most interesting questions with this article are who leaked this and why now?
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They'd probably work out a deal with OKC to get the Sonics name back. Just like the Hornets in Charlotte.
I think Seattle kept everything in the divorce. Like Cleveland did when Baltimore came calling.
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I think Seattle kept everything in the divorce. Like Cleveland did when Baltimore came calling.
It'll be interesting if NHL expansion will impact future NBA decisions. Pretty rare to have both.
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I’ll gladly accept all those nickels as an apology when you set foot in the Thunderdome for the first time.
Brother Benny, so long as I get a promise of a first row seat behind the Warrior bench forever (embalm me and face me toward mid-court after I'm gone) in the BennyB Thunderdome, I'm OK with that!
Is Chicos gonna advertise there?
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It'll be interesting if NHL expansion will impact future NBA decisions. Pretty rare to have both.
11 arenas are shared between NBA and NHL teams. LA has two NBA teams and one NHL team in the Staples Center.
There's actually only four markets with separate arenas. Miami (although the NHL team is in Broward County), Phoenix and Minneapolis/St. Paul (one team plays in each), and the Bay Area (hockey team in San Jose, basketball team in Oakland).
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11 arenas are shared between NBA and NHL teams. LA has two NBA teams and one NHL team in the Staples Center.
There's actually only four markets with separate arenas. Miami (although the NHL team is in Broward County), Phoenix and Minneapolis/St. Paul (one team plays in each), and the Bay Area (hockey team in San Jose, basketball team in Oakland).
Wasn't talking separate arenas. Was speculating about cities that have both NHL and NBA. Seattle has a population of 725,000. Any city of that size have both?
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Seattle Tacoma is the fifteenth largest metropolitan area in the US.
Minneapolis / St. Paul is 16
Denver is 19
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Seattle Tacoma is the fifteenth largest metropolitan area in the US.
Minneapolis / St. Paul is 16
Denver is 19
Okay. Are there northern top 14 that don't?
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Okay. Are there northern top 14 that don't?
No
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Wasn't talking separate arenas. Was speculating about cities that have both NHL and NBA. Seattle has a population of 725,000. Any city of that size have both?
New York City Area (20,320,876): Nets, Knicks, Rangers, Devils and Islanders
Los Angeles Area (13,353,907): Ducks, Kings, Clippers, and Lakers
Chicago (9,533,040): Bulls and Blackhawks
Dallas (7,399,662): Mavericks and Stars
Toronto (6,418,000): Raptors and Maple Leafs
Washington DC (6,216,589): Wizards and Caps
Miami (6,158,824): Heat and Panthers
Philadelphia (6,096,120): 76ers and Flyers
Boston (4,836,531): Bruins and Celtics
Phoenix (4,737,270): Coyotes and Suns
Detroit (4,313,002): Red Wings and Pistons
Seattle (3,867,046): ??? & ???
Twin Cities (3,600,618): Wild and T-Wolves
Denver (2,888,227): Avalanche and Nuggets
So Seattle wouldn't be the smallest metro with both NHL and NBA but it would be pretty close. Interestingly, both Twin Cities and Denver have NFL and MLB teams as well.
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Okay. Are there northern top 14 that don't?
The only ones in the top 14 without both an NBA and NHL franchise are:
#5 Houston
#9 Atlanta
#12 San Francisco
#13 Inland Empire
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This is probably just as important however.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_metropolitan_areas_by_per_capita_income
Seattle is #3 on this list.
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This is probably just as important however.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_metropolitan_areas_by_per_capita_income
Seattle is #3 on this list.
Get Hawaii some major league teams STAT!
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I’ll gladly accept all those nickels as an apology when you set foot in the Thunderdome Eagle's Nest for the first time.
FIFY
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“The agreement also includes a non-relocation clause. Asked about a roughly $550 million penalty that the Bucks would pay if the team did move during the lease, Edens said, "I think it's fair to say we're not going anywhere ... They built it with a financial penalty that is so punitive it would be not something you would consider, so it's a firm commitment."
“So punitive” as in: the cost of the arena at the time of construction, roughly half of which was footed by taxpayers not named Edens and Lasry et al. Wes has a way with words.
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The only ones in the top 14 without both an NBA and NHL franchise are:
#5 Houston
#9 Atlanta
#12 San Francisco
#13 Inland Empire
Inland empire?
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Inland empire?
Riverside, San Bernarndino, Rancho, Murrieta.
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“So punitive” as in: the cost of the arena at the time of construction, roughly half of which was footed by taxpayers not named Edens and Lasry et al. Wes has a way with words.
That whole crew rubs me the wrong way, talk about an example where profit motivation not bringing out the best in people
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That whole crew rubs me the wrong way, talk about an example where profit motivation not bringing out the best in people
I'll add one more thing. 'We know the entire community hates us so we'll give a sliver of ownership to ARodg because he's so beloved.'
The funny thing is, I really like the team and the players. But I really have trouble getting past ownership and so haven't fully embraced.
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I'll add one more thing. 'We know the entire community hates us so we'll give a sliver of ownership to ARodg because he's so beloved.'
The funny thing is, I really like the team and the players. But I really have trouble getting past ownership and so haven't fully embraced.
I concur, but at least Herb Kohl is no longer the owner. For as good of a guy as he is, he was a terrible owner.
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BFD, der business men. Nothin' rong wit dat. Wee don't havta like or play nice in da sandbox. If ya enjoy watt der sellin', den grate, go ahed and by it. If knot, find somethin' else ta amuse ya or waist tyme and bread on. Dat's da beauty of capitalism and free enterprise, aina?
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BFD, der business men. Nothin' rong wit dat. Wee don't havta like or play nice in da sandbox. If ya enjoy watt der sellin', den grate, go ahed and by it. If knot, find somethin' else ta amuse ya or waist tyme and bread on. Dat's da beauty of capitalism and free enterprise, aina?
Professional sports have little to do with capitalism. It's more like a cartel that limits membership and uses that limitation to leverage tax dollars to enrich themselves.
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BFD, der business men. Nothin' rong wit dat. Wee don't havta like or play nice in da sandbox. If ya enjoy watt der sellin', den grate, go ahed and by it. If knot, find somethin' else ta amuse ya or waist tyme and bread on. Dat's da beauty of capitalism and free enterprise, aina?
All true.
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Professional sports have little to do with capitalism. It's more like a cartel that limits membership and uses that limitation to leverage tax dollars to enrich themselves.
Sounds like the congress and senate.....LOL.....
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The only ones in the top 14 without both an NBA and NHL franchise are:
#5 Houston
#9 Atlanta
#12 San Francisco
#13 Inland Empire
Atlanta had two opportunities, and both said bye bye (Flames and Thrashers). San Francisco (technically Bay Area as they played in Oakland) had one back in my youth (they took on the Cleveland Barons to become the California Golden Seals), but that is gone.
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Atlanta had two opportunities, and both said bye bye (Flames and Thrashers). San Francisco (technically Bay Area as they played in Oakland) had one back in my youth (they took on the Cleveland Barons to become the California Golden Seals), but that is gone.
Houston had a fairly successful WHA team that was denied entry to the NHL when they merged.
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Don't forget about the Seattle Sounders, who have a large, rabid following in Seattle. Yet another team competing for all of that disposable income. (Yes, I know that MLS is mostly a summer league)
In any case, I think the NBA may be using Seattle the way that the NFL used LA as a bargaining chip for decades: "hey [enter city], pay up for a new arena or the team moves to Seattle"
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1. What's the long term outlook for NBA (and NFL, MLB) teams valuation now that people are cutting the cord in record numbers, slicing into TV revenue streams ability to continue the preposterous network contracts?
2. MU should threaten to move the university to another state unless it gets public funding for an arena!
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1. What's the long term outlook for NBA (and NFL, MLB) teams valuation now that people are cutting the cord in record numbers, slicing into TV revenue streams ability to continue the preposterous network contracts?
2. MU should threaten to move the university to another state unless it gets public funding for an arena!
Ohio has the most Arby's, let's start looking there.
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1. What's the long term outlook for NBA (and NFL, MLB) teams valuation now that people are cutting the cord in record numbers, slicing into TV revenue streams ability to continue the preposterous network contracts?
2. MU should threaten to move the university to another state unless it gets public funding for an arena!
NFL will make a killing. They are redoing their deals right now with the broadcasters and the FAANG stocks are going to pay a ton for a piece of the action.
Amazon just did a NBA League Pass deal last week. More are coming.
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1. What's the long term outlook for NBA (and NFL, MLB) teams valuation now that people are cutting the cord in record numbers, slicing into TV revenue streams ability to continue the preposterous network contracts?
2. MU should threaten to move the university to another state unless it gets public funding for an arena!
...like Hawaii; we could host the Maui classic every year!
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BFD, der business men. Nothin' rong wit dat. Wee don't havta like or play nice in da sandbox. If ya enjoy watt der sellin', den grate, go ahed and by it. If knot, find somethin' else ta amuse ya or waist tyme and bread on. Dat's da beauty of capitalism and free enterprise, aina?
All well and good if they had paid for the stadium themselves.....if you are going to take my tax dollars you are going have to deal with my voice and opinions
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NFL will make a killing. They are redoing their deals right now with the broadcasters and the FAANG stocks are going to pay a ton for a piece of the action.
Amazon just did a NBA League Pass deal last week. More are coming.
Ummm.... we're two weeks away from 2019 and you're still using the FAANG acronym? Any Titanic references you'd like to throw in while we're discussing these topics at the height of their popularity?
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This is probably just as important however.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_metropolitan_areas_by_per_capita_income
Seattle is #3 on this list.
This is why there hope for the return of my Hartford Whalers and the Brass Bonanza theme song.
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This is why there hope for the return of my Hartford Whalers and the Brass Bonanza theme song.
Until they can beat Vancouver more than once or twice in a lifetime, the Whale isn't coming back.
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I dont think so but that's more of a civil engineering question, i didn't both with all that simple static stuff ;D I'd guess the more difficult problem is the footprint, I dont think you can go up without going out.
I believe the out and up statement is largely true.
Without knowing any details about the foundation design, I can only make general statements. It’s probably feasible to increase the size of the building on the existing foundation, but likely not by much. The size of the addition they could put on the existing foundations would almost certainly not be worth the effort of doing it.
The other option would be to excavate inside the existing structure, creating more space between the roof and the ground...like they are doing to the Key Arena in Seattle. But digging is typically significantly more expensive than building up from the ground. It would also require rework of the existing superstructure...which is typically pretty expensive.
I’m absolutely certain the capacity of the Al could be increased. It’s an engineering problem, so there is always a solution. It’s just a question of cost.
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I believe the out and up statement is largely true.
Without knowing any details about the foundation design, I can only make general statements. It’s probably feasible to increase the size of the building on the existing foundation, but likely not by much. The size of the addition they could put on the existing foundations would almost certainly not be worth the effort of doing it.
The other option would be to excavate inside the existing structure, creating more space between the roof and the ground...like they are doing to the Key Arena in Seattle. But digging is typically significantly more expensive than building up from the ground. It would also require rework of the existing superstructure...which is typically pretty expensive.
I’m absolutely certain the capacity of the Al could be increased. It’s an engineering problem, so there is always a solution. It’s just a question of cost.
I don't think that even excavation or renovation could solve the problem here... you can't go up without going out and add a meaningful number of seats (unless you plan to hand out complimentary Dramamine to the upper deck fans), not to mention the current footprint isn't even enough to accommodate critical mass in a single-level configuration, considering:
1) Assembly Hall (the Hall with two walls) sits on a footprint that's approximately 370' x 290' at it's maximum widths.
2) Hinkle sits on a 350' x 225' footprint.
3) The Dee Dome, i.e. Weber State U (incidentally, also the inspiration for the Thunderdome), is 325' in diameter.
By comparison, the arena portion of the Al is currently about 175' x 225'. Even if you turned things sideways (i.e. raze the offices), you can get 350' north to south, but still only 150' E to W.
If you tore down Cobeen Hall, you get 225' E to W... now you have the exact same footprint as Hinkle. The problem is, I very much doubt you could build Hinkle today and meet current building codes, and their capacity is only about 9,000 as it is so you're probably 7,500-8,000 by today's standards. Either was, I personally think that's too small (IMO, the sweet spot for MU on-campus is probably about 10,000-11,000).
As mentioned, Weber State has the template MU... obviously it would be a different color scheme, with a larger scoreboard and video screens. Reshape the end zones to bring the seats closer to the court and add a concourse at the tunnel level such that you can walk around the entire arena. New speakers, some t-shirt parachute droppers, 50 different craft brews on tap, and the Thunderdome is born.
Dee Dome's capacity is 11,500 and change, so even cutting out a few seats, a 350' square footprint is what MU needs to make this happen. Unfortunately, that doesn't exist at 12th and Wells... but I know someplace it does.
(https://weberstatesports.com/images/2013/9/18/WWVFYJDCOYAPOTY.20130918173338.jpg?width=1055&height=591&mode=crop)
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^^^^Needs some club seats or mini-luxury boxes though.
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I don't think that even excavation or renovation could solve the problem here... you can't go up without going out and add a meaningful number of seats (unless you plan to hand out complimentary Dramamine to the upper deck fans), not to mention the current footprint isn't even enough to accommodate critical mass in a single-level configuration, considering:
1) Assembly Hall (the Hall with two walls) sits on a footprint that's approximately 370' x 290' at it's maximum widths.
2) Hinkle sits on a 350' x 225' footprint.
3) The Dee Dome, i.e. Weber State U (incidentally, also the inspiration for the Thunderdome), is 325' in diameter.
By comparison, the arena portion of the Al is currently about 175' x 225'. Even if you turned things sideways (i.e. raze the offices), you can get 350' north to south, but still only 150' E to W.
If you tore down Cobeen Hall, you get 225' E to W... now you have the exact same footprint as Hinkle. The problem is, I very much doubt you could build Hinkle today and meet current building codes, and their capacity is only about 9,000 as it is so you're probably 7,500-8,000 by today's standards. Either was, I personally think that's too small (IMO, the sweet spot for MU on-campus is probably about 10,000-11,000).
As mentioned, Weber State has the template MU... obviously it would be a different color scheme, with a larger scoreboard and video screens. Reshape the end zones to bring the seats closer to the court and add a concourse at the tunnel level such that you can walk around the entire arena. New speakers, some t-shirt parachute droppers, 50 different craft brews on tap, and the Thunderdome is born.
Dee Dome's capacity is 11,500 and change, so even cutting out a few seats, a 350' square footprint is what MU needs to make this happen. Unfortunately, that doesn't exist at 12th and Wells... but I know someplace it does.
And a bat....
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Until they can beat Vancouver more than once or twice in a lifetime, the Whale isn't coming back.
Hell hath no fury, like a woman scorned for Sega.
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^^^^Needs some club seats or mini-luxury boxes though.
Ahhhhhhh..... Benny's thought this one through.
Think about the field-level suites at Cowboys stadium. Now look at those half-oval areas behind the scorer's table and benches and imagine raising up the general seating area behind the scorer's table just a row or two. There wouldn't be many, but there's just enough for maybe 5 or 6 on that side. Alternatively, you could also put 3-4 behind the basket that MU shoots at 2nd half and still keep the students close to the court on the other (for FT defense, of course).
So if needed, the Thunderdome could include a few more than a half-dozen suites at "floor" level, which would probably be enough.
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Why have I heard so many people mention capacity of 11,000-11,500? STH alone would cover that and leave people on the street during the worst buy games, let alone bigger (yet not marquee) games.
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Why have I heard so many people mention capacity of 11,000-11,500? STH alone would cover that and leave people on the street during the worst buy games, let alone bigger (yet not marquee) games.
Create scarcity and raise prices. A lot of the top college basketball venues leave a lot of people on the street
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I think 14,000 would be ideal.
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I think 14,000 would be ideal.
That's where I'm at.
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Average home attendance:
2019: 14,508
2018: 12,323 (includes 3 games at Al)
2017: 13,716
2016: 13,308
2015: 13,657 (includes 1 game at Al)
2014: 15,327
2013: 15,033
2012: 15,138
2011: 15,586
2010: 15,617
2009: ?
2008: 16,239
2007: 15,345
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I'm pretty confident that if (and its a huge if at this point) an on campus arena got built, it wouldn't be bigger than 12,000. Leave em wanting more.
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Does anyone know what our rent was over 29 years at the BC? Was it 120 Million?
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Back to my original point that some work so hard to avoid discussing. I don't think anyone for one second was suggesting an addition to the Al that raises attendance to 10,000 or 12,000 allowing it to 'replace' the Fiserv. What I was talking about was adding 2500 seats to get the Al's capacity to 6200 so it 'could' be used for a handful of dates (say 8) including low level weeknight buy games and Christmas break. That itself provides the university some leverage.
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Back to my original point that some work so hard to avoid discussing. I don't think anyone for one second was suggesting an addition to the Al that raises attendance to 10,000 or 12,000 allowing it to 'replace' the Fiserv. What I was talking about was adding 2500 seats to get the Al's capacity to 6200 so it 'could' be used for a handful of dates (say 8) including low level weeknight buy games and Christmas break. That itself provides the university some leverage.
This. But zoning wise they'd need to get rid of the sidewalk on the south side of wells and the east side of 12th. then probably gut the foier to add room behind that basket and in the corner. all that and they'd have to add bathrooms and concessions as well. Just seems like a bigger task than just say raising the rough and adding 10 rows on every side.
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This. But zoning wise they'd need to get rid of the sidewalk on the south side of wells and the east side of 12th. then probably gut the foier to add room behind that basket and in the corner. all that and they'd have to add bathrooms and concessions as well. Just seems like a bigger task than just say raising the rough and adding 10 rows on every side.
That's why I told eng to figure it out! I'm just a dumb Bus Adder but if you hung a real scoreboard and built a balcony on the south wall I think you'd get there. Gold duct tape ought to handle it!
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Does anyone know what our rent was over 29 years at the BC? Was it 120 Million?
$4 million a year? Doubt it.
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I say it every time these threads pop up, but I don't get the infatuation with an on-campus arena. Hopefully we're in the Fiserv for the next 30 years.
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I say it every time these threads pop up, but I don't get the infatuation with an on-campus arena. Hopefully we're in the Fiserv for the next 30 years.
I think that's everyone's hope and will continue to be the case as long as it continues to be the most financially viable path for all parties.
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Does anyone know what our rent was over 29 years at the BC? Was it 120 Million?
I thought it was in the $100k per game range
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My recollection was around $50k a game and mu got no revenue
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Marquette’s lease at the BMO Harris Bradley Center includes $29,000 per-game rent, $285,000 per-season in suite rentals and a $1.50 to $2 per-ticket facility fee. Marquette retains some sponsorship rights in the venue and receives a payment from the Bradley Center of $19,000 per game for rights to suite season tickets.
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Still trying to piece together the who and why on the timing. It would seem weird (?) for MU to leak this now. It seems there’s been a lot of turnover high up at MU, so maybe some birdie was willing to talk off the record with no fear of retaliation. If this story came out 4 years from now, I’d get it. The story itself isn’t odd by any stretch, but the timing sure is weird.
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Still trying to piece together the who and why on the timing. It would seem weird (?) for MU to leak this now. It seems there’s been a lot of turnover high up at MU, so maybe some birdie was willing to talk off the record with no fear of retaliation. If this story came out 4 years from now, I’d get it. The story itself isn’t odd by any stretch, but the timing sure is weird.
Maybe Dan Myers spilled the beans. Just got his next gig at American so what can Lovell do to him? And Dan would certainly know. Look, we've all heard it's a little tense these past few months.
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Create scarcity and raise prices. A lot of the top college basketball venues leave a lot of people on the street
I don't see this working out. I think we're a lot better off in our current situation than taking the gamble of reducing seating by 25% or more. If we sold out regularly, then maybe there's an argument here. But when we still have a ton of open seats priced somewhere between 10-20 for the majority of our games, I don't think there's a strong case for raising prices. Plus, in a smaller, on-campus arena, you probably won't have the same frills that draw in some of the higher paying STHs. So you might have a hard time getting a higher price per seat if you can't maintain the current high end of the pricing spectrum.
As to what other colleges do, I took a quick look at attendance throughout D1, and without looking at all the arena sizes, it looks like most schools have an average attendance well below capacity. Sure, Duke can sell out Cameron every game, but that's not exactly the best example to build a business case off of.
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Marquette’s lease at the BMO Harris Bradley Center includes $29,000 per-game rent, $285,000 per-season in suite rentals and a $1.50 to $2 per-ticket facility fee. Marquette retains some sponsorship rights in the venue and receives a payment from the Bradley Center of $19,000 per game for rights to suite season tickets.
So ticket payers were covering $2-3 in rent per game and $1.50-2 in facility fees for a grand total of $5 per game? That seems like a decent trade-off to be in a pro arena with better amenities than even a good on campus arena.
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So ticket payers were covering $2-3 in rent per game and $1.50-2 in facility fees for a grand total of $5 per game? That seems like a decent trade-off to be in a pro arena with better amenities than even a good on campus arena.
Decent trade-off? The costs of an on-campus stadium would be way, way more than that.
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I don't see this working out. I think we're a lot better off in our current situation than taking the gamble of reducing seating by 25% or more. If we sold out regularly, then maybe there's an argument here. But when we still have a ton of open seats priced somewhere between 10-20 for the majority of our games, I don't think there's a strong case for raising prices. Plus, in a smaller, on-campus arena, you probably won't have the same frills that draw in some of the higher paying STHs. So you might have a hard time getting a higher price per seat if you can't maintain the current high end of the pricing spectrum.
As to what other colleges do, I took a quick look at attendance throughout D1, and without looking at all the arena sizes, it looks like most schools have an average attendance well below capacity. Sure, Duke can sell out Cameron every game, but that's not exactly the best example to build a business case off of.
I think everyone agrees our current situation is better. The on campus arena would only happen if the current situation changed.
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Maybe Dan Myers spilled the beans. Just got his next gig at American so what can Lovell do to him? And Dan would certainly know. Look, we've all heard it's a little tense these past few months.
Or the EVP who left before that, who probably would have been the one working with Wintrust.
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Marquette’s lease at the BMO Harris Bradley Center includes $29,000 per-game rent, $285,000 per-season in suite rentals and a $1.50 to $2 per-ticket facility fee. Marquette retains some sponsorship rights in the venue and receives a payment from the Bradley Center of $19,000 per game for rights to suite season tickets.
Have heard the number now is in the $50-60k per game range. Not sure about the other aspects (parking, concessions, suites, etc).
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Have heard the number now is in the $50-60k per game range. Not sure about the other aspects (parking, concessions, suites, etc).
They never got concessions at the BC, so I'm sure it's still that way at FF. I know they get a % of the suites that were sold at FF.
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Speaking of the suites, at the Wisconsin game they were 95% red.
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Speaking of the suites, at the Wisconsin game they were 95% red.
I saw that too. While I'm not too surprised, given that those seats are pretty much all corporate, it wasn't great seeing that ring of red throughout the stadium. Maybe in 2 years, someone can coordinate a MU shirt giveaway for the suites to help even that out a little more.
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Speaking of the suites, at the Wisconsin game they were 95% red.
I didn't notice that as I'm in row 14, but was told that was the case from folks who sit in the upper deck. Can't blame MU for that as they have zero control.
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I saw that too. While I'm not too surprised, given that those seats are pretty much all corporate, it wasn't great seeing that ring of red throughout the stadium. Maybe in 2 years, someone can coordinate a MU shirt giveaway for the suites to help even that out a little more.
It makes perfect sense that it was mostly red.
Think about it. If your company has a suite for Marquette basketball, which game are you going to invite all of your Badger Fan customers to? You have the rest of the season to invite all your customers who graduated from Marquette.
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I'm pretty confident that if (and its a huge if at this point) an on campus arena got built, it wouldn't be bigger than 12,000. Leave em wanting more.
Doubt MU leaves money on the table.
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Doubt MU leaves money on the table.
Who says they would be leaving money on the table?
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Who says they would be leaving money on the table?
Smaller arena = fewer seats to sell
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Smaller arena = fewer seats to sell
At a higher price.......laws of supply and demand matter in ticket prices as well.
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At a higher price.......laws of supply and demand matter in ticket prices as well.
There's also a cap on the price people are willing to pay to see a college basketball team in a city with plenty of options for their entertainment dollar.
How many fans - casual and hardcore - are going to pay another 20 percent, if not more, to make up from the lost revenue of 3-4,000 tickets sold? And to see games in what'll likely be an arena with fewer amenities in a less attractive location?
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Pakuni
We jumped into season tickets again this year after a long break. Past decade I paid scalpers inflated cost to get best seats available for games I wanted to go to. This year, I will be wasting/giving away either fourth or fifth set of tickets for tonight"s game. In theory, I am already paying a 20-30% premium on my tickets. I know a lot of folks waste more than they use and do not care about the money part of it.
I probably would be more likely to go a crappy game at an arena that has some energy. One of the reasons I do not go to crappy games now is because the excitement level is not there. The one crappy game we went to, my wife and I were the only two people in our row, and we are in row 16 of lower bowl. For me, nothing is worse than a bad opponent and empty arena.
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Pakuni
We jumped into season tickets again this year after a long break. Past decade I paid scalpers inflated cost to get best seats available for games I wanted to go to. This year, I will be wasting/giving away either fourth or fifth set of tickets for tonight"s game. In theory, I am already paying a 20-30% premium on my tickets. I know a lot of folks waste more than they use and do not care about the money part of it.
I probably would be more likely to go a crappy game at an arena that has some energy. One of the reasons I do not go to crappy games now is because the excitement level is not there. The one crappy game we went to, my wife and I were the only two people in our row, and we are in row 16 of lower bowl. For me, nothing is worse than a bad opponent and empty arena.
This is all fair, but what makes you think smaller arena = energy at a crappy game?
I imagine the season ticket holders and students (and casual fans) who stay away from mid-December games against North Dakota at Fiserve will stay away from mid-December games against North Dakota at an on-campus arena as well. And those who do show up aren't going to get more excited for a crappy opponent because there are fewer empty seats.
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I'm pretty confident that if (and its a huge if at this point) an on campus arena got built, it wouldn't be bigger than 12,000. Leave em wanting more.
Plz stay in academia, in no world would MU want to leave existing season ticket holders or other possible viewers on the street. The reason many college venues only have 10-11-12 thousand seats is bacuse they have trouble even filling that. Under no cicumstsnces does MU, who has historically had a 14-15k seat average then decide to build a 12k arena for that or any other stupid reason of the sort. Plz stop
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This is all fair, but what makes you think smaller arena = energy at a crappy game?
I imagine the season ticket holders and students (and casual fans) who stay away from mid-December games against North Dakota at Fiserve will stay away from mid-December games against North Dakota at an on-campus arena as well. And those who do show up aren't going to get more excited for a crappy opponent because there are fewer empty seats.
Bingo seats are already sold adding to athletic coffers , msybe they should only make it 5k for those types of games. Lord this thread has zero forward thinking
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How many Milwaukee and surrounding area residents actually choose not to go to games that they've already paid for? Maybe a Tuesday night 8 o'clock tip, but even then. I go to games to watch MU basketball, not be in an amazing arena with an amazing atmosphere, my attendance would be almost identical if we were forced to play all games at the Al. I can't imagine Guru being okay with any of you guys missing any game for any reason.
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Plz stay in academia, in no world would MU want to leave existing season ticket holders or other possible viewers on the street. The reason many college venues only have 10-11-12 thousand seats is bacuse they have trouble even filling that. Under no cicumstsnces does MU, who has historically had a 14-15k seat average then decide to build a 12k arena for that or any other stupid reason of the sort. Plz stop
Word is they were looking at an arena that was going to seat around 10,000. And they averaged less than your stated "14-15k seat average" just last year.
So maybe you should do a little research before typing like an incoherent middle schooler next time?
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Plz stay in academia, in no world would MU want to leave existing season ticket holders or other possible viewers on the street. The reason many college venues only have 10-11-12 thousand seats is bacuse they have trouble even filling that. Under no cicumstsnces does MU, who has historically had a 14-15k seat average then decide to build a 12k arena for that or any other stupid reason of the sort. Plz stop
This
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Word is they were looking at an arena that was going to seat around 10,000. And they averaged less than your stated "14-15k seat average" just last year.
So maybe you should do a little research before typing like an incoherent middle schooler next time?
Looked at ... and rejected (and fairly quickly).
I get the allure of on-campus arena that would be Marquette's and Marquette's alone, but the economics of it really don't make much sense. Not only would it require MU to turn away thousands of fans, but it would have to find ways to fill seats when it's not hosting a men's basketball game. That's no small task, especially in a city that has no shortage of other viable options.
The arena business is tough, and most struggle to break even or lose money.
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Sand Knit
I agree on making the most money possible and repeating that system. That said, I am not so sure of accuracy of ST sold. In addition, I do know of a lot of 65+ fans that have had 4-8 season tickets for decades and likely discontinuing in relative near future. I can speak firsthand with my siblings, six tickets not renewed this year. They are 65+, travel in winter and kids have low level interest.
I would not be betting on 11k STH 4-5 years from now, and not because of product on the court. I do not see the younger folks jumping in and buying the tickets some folks have had for 50 years. World has changed and buying/entertainment habits have changed. MU has been very lucky the number of Al fans are still buying tickets today.
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I don't think that even excavation or renovation could solve the problem here... you can't go up without going out and add a meaningful number of seats (unless you plan to hand out complimentary Dramamine to the upper deck fans), not to mention the current footprint isn't even enough to accommodate critical mass in a single-level configuration, considering:
1) Assembly Hall (the Hall with two walls) sits on a footprint that's approximately 370' x 290' at it's maximum widths.
2) Hinkle sits on a 350' x 225' footprint.
3) The Dee Dome, i.e. Weber State U (incidentally, also the inspiration for the Thunderdome), is 325' in diameter.
By comparison, the arena portion of the Al is currently about 175' x 225'. Even if you turned things sideways (i.e. raze the offices), you can get 350' north to south, but still only 150' E to W.
If you tore down Cobeen Hall, you get 225' E to W... now you have the exact same footprint as Hinkle. The problem is, I very much doubt you could build Hinkle today and meet current building codes, and their capacity is only about 9,000 as it is so you're probably 7,500-8,000 by today's standards. Either was, I personally think that's too small (IMO, the sweet spot for MU on-campus is probably about 10,000-11,000).
As mentioned, Weber State has the template MU... obviously it would be a different color scheme, with a larger scoreboard and video screens. Reshape the end zones to bring the seats closer to the court and add a concourse at the tunnel level such that you can walk around the entire arena. New speakers, some t-shirt parachute droppers, 50 different craft brews on tap, and the Thunderdome is born.
Dee Dome's capacity is 11,500 and change, so even cutting out a few seats, a 350' square footprint is what MU needs to make this happen. Unfortunately, that doesn't exist at 12th and Wells... but I know someplace it does.
(https://weberstatesports.com/images/2013/9/18/WWVFYJDCOYAPOTY.20130918173338.jpg?width=1055&height=591&mode=crop)
Good stuff, Benny. Thanks. Curious if you know or have seen the footprint dimensions of Cintas at Xavier. I know someone up-thread expressed a contrary opinion, but I actually was pretty impressed when I was there a couple months ago.
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Looked at ... and rejected (and fairly quickly).
I get the allure of on-campus arena that would be Marquette's and Marquette's alone, but the economics of it really don't make much sense. Not only would it require MU to turn away thousands of fans, but it would have to find ways to fill seats when it's not hosting a men's basketball game. That's no small task, especially in a city that has no shortage of other viable options.
The arena business is tough, and most struggle to break even or lose money.
Rejected because of cost. Not size.
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StillaWarrior
MU brass knows the footprint of Cintas at X. That was the blueprint for discussion/model had by the folks at MU.
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Rejected because of cost. Not size.
Cost wouldn't be an issue if they were confident that the revenues were there to justify the expense.
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Rejected because of cost. Not size.
Size = Revenue potential & ultimately payback -- so these things are all linked. Especially since you do want to maximize rev's on nights MU isnt playing with other events.
I am not going to pretend like I know the 'ideal' arena size for an MU game this year or 10 years down the road as that would take access to info that I dont have...
..but I do agree with the person who said being in the Bucks/NBA arena is the best situation for MU today.
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Pakuni
We jumped into season tickets again this year after a long break. Past decade I paid scalpers inflated cost to get best seats available for games I wanted to go to. This year, I will be wasting/giving away either fourth or fifth set of tickets for tonight"s game. In theory, I am already paying a 20-30% premium on my tickets. I know a lot of folks waste more than they use and do not care about the money part of it.
I probably would be more likely to go a crappy game at an arena that has some energy. One of the reasons I do not go to crappy games now is because the excitement level is not there. The one crappy game we went to, my wife and I were the only two people in our row, and we are in row 16 of lower bowl. For me, nothing is worse than a bad opponent and empty arena.
I’d go to crappy or good games, want to cheer on Marquette mostly. Development of the kids, cheer for the alma mater.
JD
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This is all fair, but what makes you think smaller arena = energy at a crappy game?
I imagine the season ticket holders and students (and casual fans) who stay away from mid-December games against North Dakota at Fiserve will stay away from mid-December games against North Dakota at an on-campus arena as well. And those who do show up aren't going to get more excited for a crappy opponent because there are fewer empty seats.
Plz stay in academia, in no world would MU want to leave existing season ticket holders or other possible viewers on the street. The reason many college venues only have 10-11-12 thousand seats is bacuse they have trouble even filling that. Under no cicumstsnces does MU, who has historically had a 14-15k seat average then decide to build a 12k arena for that or any other stupid reason of the sort. Plz stop
I promise you that if MU pulls the trigger on this, smarter people than you or I will make sure they make the most amount of money. More seats does not necessarily mean more money.
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I’d go to crappy or good games, want to cheer on Marquette mostly. Development of the kids, cheer for the alma mater.
JD
Me too. Someone up-thread suggested maybe they could move out of state. If they decide to start playing MU's home games in Cleveland, they can count on me as a STH and to attend all the games.
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cheeks
You are a better fan than I am. I enjoy watching the development of my own kids when it is cold, damp night and MU playing some stiffs. Zero interest in sitting in vacant arena. Again, you are better fan than I am.
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Funny, our vacant arena for these buy games, would be good size crowds for many in the NCAA.
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I promise you that if MU pulls the trigger on this, smarter people than you or I will make sure they make the most amount of money. More seats does not necessarily mean more money.
So what do the smart people at Marquette, who've never operated an arena, know about the arena business that so many other smart people with experience in the business do not know?
I'm afraid it's not as simple as "they're smart, they'll figure it out." The market realities are what they are, regardless of how smart people may think they are. The arena business is tough.
Why does Marquette want to roll the dice on what could easily become a money pit when there's an arena that meets their needs just down the road? It makes no sense, and the university realized that rather quickly when it ended its study.
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So what do the smart people at Marquette, who've never operated an arena, know about the arena business that so many other smart people with experience in the business do not know?
I'm afraid it's not as simple as "they're smart, they'll figure it out." The market realities are what they are, regardless of how smart people may think they are. The arena business is tough.
Why does Marquette want to roll the dice on what could easily become a money pit when there's an arena that meets their needs just down the road? It makes no sense, and the university realized that rather quickly when it ended its study.
My guess is it only happens if that arena down the street becomes a bigger money pit.
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My guess is it only happens if that arena down the street becomes a bigger money pit.
But it won't be Marquette's money pit (that'll fall on the taxpayers!).
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So what do the smart people at Marquette, who've never operated an arena, know about the arena business that so many other smart people with experience in the business do not know?
I'm afraid it's not as simple as "they're smart, they'll figure it out." The market realities are what they are, regardless of how smart people may think they are. The arena business is tough.
Why does Marquette want to roll the dice on what could easily become a money pit when there's an arena that meets their needs just down the road? It makes no sense, and the university realized that rather quickly when it ended its study.
As I said before, everyone wants mu to stay in the fiserv. The on campus arena would only happen if current circumstances drastically change
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$4 million a year? Doubt it.
My point exactly. I can't imagine we are paying that at the FF either.
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But it won't be Marquette's money pit (that'll fall on the taxpayers!).
Bucks are responsible for Fiserv Forum upgrades.
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As I said before, everyone wants mu to stay in the fiserv. The on campus arena would only happen if current circumstances drastically change
Yep. MU's review took place while the Bucks were apparently playing hardball with the lease terms. If the Bucks try to jack up the terms enough, I suspect MU will look again. It's all about bargaining leverage, and if the Bucks find enough high-$$ concerts, monster truck rallies and the such, they could reach a point where an on-campus place would work better for MU. It's smart for MU to have a Plan B in case that ever comes to pass. Dunno how high the Bucks would have to raise the rent for us to get there, but it's always a possibility.
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Bucks are responsible for Fiserv Forum upgrades.
I'll start emailing my 800 word essay requests to have Arby's replace Chick-fil-A to the Bucks then.
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It makes perfect sense that it was mostly red.
Think about it. If your company has a suite for Marquette basketball, which game are you going to invite all of your Badger Fan customers to? You have the rest of the season to invite all your customers who graduated from Marquette.
Kohl Hole is usually 95% red in the seats with a semi-gold ring in the suites.
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cheeks
You are a better fan than I am. I enjoy watching the development of my own kids when it is cold, damp night and MU playing some stiffs. Zero interest in sitting in vacant arena. Again, you are better fan than I am.
Sorry if it came off as better fan, not what I meant. I’m just of the opinion of going to support my team. We have partial Angels season tickets, I go to watch Mike Trout or Ohtani, etc. even if we are struggling, or they are playing a bad team, it’s about the team in my opinion. I understand your POV and realize fans will also take that approach.
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So what do the smart people at Marquette, who've never operated an arena, know about the arena business that so many other smart people with experience in the business do not know?
I'm afraid it's not as simple as "they're smart, they'll figure it out." The market realities are what they are, regardless of how smart people may think they are. The arena business is tough.
Why does Marquette want to roll the dice on what could easily become a money pit when there's an arena that meets their needs just down the road? It makes no sense, and the university realized that rather quickly when it ended its study.
Been said many times... those that can do and those that cant teach.
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Sorry if it came off as better fan, not what I meant. I’m just of the opinion of going to support my team. We have partial Angels season tickets, I go to watch Mike Trout or Ohtani, etc. even if we are struggling, or they are playing a bad team, it’s about the team in my opinion. I understand your POV and realize fans will also take that approach.
Bad MLB is still elite tho. Tonight I got a babysitter for a team that took a 10 hour bus to MKE and started 3 guys who might not crack the rotation at Thomas More. I totally get ppl staying home.
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Bad MLB is still elite tho. Tonight I got a babysitter for a team that took a 10 hour bus to MKE and started 3 guys who might not crack the rotation at Thomas More. I totally get ppl staying home.
But I'm sure the team appreciated your babysitter!
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The Lens
Trust me, getting out of the house when you have kids is the thing to do. Just wait until your kids are grown. Way back in the day, always got a sitter, even for the crap games or I went with my buddies. Basically, it was great excuse to get out on week night.
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Bad MLB is still elite tho. Tonight I got a babysitter for a team that took a 10 hour bus to MKE and started 3 guys who might not crack the rotation at Thomas More. I totally get ppl staying home.
We have a friend who has season tickets and drives in from Bloomington, IL for every game. He works for one of the universities down there. I think he wins the dedicated fan award.
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Been said many times... those that can do and those that cant teach.
The people who ultimately made this decision don't teach.
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Bad MLB is still elite tho. Tonight I got a babysitter for a team that took a 10 hour bus to MKE and started 3 guys who might not crack the rotation at Thomas More. I totally get ppl staying home.
But you supported YOUR alma mater and cheered on your team, right? I would do that regardless of who they are playing, obviously some choose not to. I understand both points of view. My position is cheer on the school with the name on the front. Secondly, some of these guys this is their last year (Heldt for sure, TBD on anyone else)....they deserve the love.
We sometimes complain about being elite or not having the full support we need. There are schools out there that sellout every single game regardless of who strolls into their crib. Maybe they are country bumpkins, don't have the Milwaukee big city alternatives, but that is something they should be proud of in terms of support.
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Good stuff, Benny. Thanks. Curious if you know or have seen the footprint dimensions of Cintas at Xavier. I know someone up-thread expressed a contrary opinion, but I actually was pretty impressed when I was there a couple months ago.
Cintas is 325' x 325'
IOW, Cintas and the Dee fit inside the same-sized box. The Thunderdome's box should be a bit larger because of evolving building codes, hence 350'.
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Been said many times... those that can do and those that cant teach.
So, essentially, everyone is a teacher? Thank you Mr. Berra. ;D
[Even our resident tooth jockeys use a comma once in a while.]
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Been said many times... those that can do and those that cant teach.
or as the late Jud Heathcote said, "Those that can't play, coach. And those that can't coach, officiate"
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Good to know, I heard it from someone at MU this week while traveling. What this person described to me is how you described it, but said there is a high end donor that wants to put B School there instead and that’s the rub currently being vetted. Don’t know if true, but person has been reliable in past. Either way, good to see progress.
Sounds like they are waiting to start new project and take McCormick down as part of that to save money....2 for 1 as it were rather than two independent projects to tear down and then build.
The current master plan has the business school in "innovation ally", but a donor has supposedly stepped up with a large donation as long as the plan gets changed and the business school is moved to where McCormick is now.
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The current master plan has the business school in "innovation ally", but a donor has supposedly stepped up with a large donation as long as the plan gets changed and the business school is moved to where McCormick is now.
Cheeks, did you create a new account just to post this?
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Been said many times... those that can do and those that cant teach.
Unload on me, and I do apologize for the digression from the thread topic. But,,,
I really think it is too bad that in a country like the USA, where education has been fundamental to our advancement and success, teaching is now so disrespected. These type of quotes are so far from being true. I know of some brilliant kids that are thinking about going into teaching, who have tech and science backgrounds. Hopefully they follow through. But so often, instead of treating teachers like professionals, they get treated like this quote and they are discouraged from going into teaching.
This is not meant to be political, so please don't make it so. I've had the good fortune to be in countries where teachers are held in high esteem and respected. No, I'm not a teacher, but I was also fortunate to have some great teachers who help instill a life long learning mindset. So, to those teachers, who I know made sacrifices, I say thank you. They could have done, done well, and made more money, but chose to teach. I am better for their decision to go into teaching, and so are my kids and so on... it will keep on giving.
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Would be the only academic building on the north side of Wisconsin avenue. Weird?
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I can confirm the potential donor wanting the B school north of Wisconsin but may not be a deal breaker if it isn't. Should be a deal breaker for MU if there is a requirement attached to a donation to put it anywhere but innovation alley. That concept is a huge differentiation for MU going forward, I wouldn't give it up if I were them
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I can confirm the potential donor wanting the B school north of Wisconsin but may not be a deal breaker if it isn't. Should be a deal breaker for MU if there is a requirement attached to a donation to put it anywhere but innovation alley. That concept is a huge differentiation for MU going forward, I wouldn't give it up if I were them
That just seems like an odd request. Why would someone ask for that? Because it will get more eyeballs on the guy's name than if it was on 16th and Michigan?
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That just seems like an odd request. Why would someone ask for that? Because it will get more eyeballs on the guy's name than if it was on 16th and Michigan?
It's a visible location on campus. . . why wouldn't you want your crown jewel there?
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It's a visible location on campus. . . why wouldn't you want your crown jewel there?
Right? That's an easy request, I want the building with my name right in the campus epicenter.
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Right? That's an easy request, I want the building with my name right in the campus epicenter.
Except it's not an easy request, it flies in face of general MU plans and specific value add to the quality of the universities educational priorities. I get why they would ask, what I don't get is if that request becomes a deal breaker for the donor.
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Except it's not an easy request, it flies in face of general MU plans and specific value add to the quality of the universities educational priorities. I get why they would ask, what I don't get is if that request becomes a deal breaker for the donor.
Is it Marcus Lemonis? ;)
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Cheeks, did you create a new account just to post this?
Sigh. No. Just one account...this one.
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The current master plan has the business school in "innovation ally", but a donor has supposedly stepped up with a large donation as long as the plan gets changed and the business school is moved to where McCormick is now.
That is what I had heard recently, too, from someone that might just know.
Not sure where innovation ally is that you referenced.
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That is what I had heard recently, too, from someone that might just know.
Not sure where innovation ally is that you referenced.
16th between Wisconsin and Michigan.
Plan is to build a new rec center where McCormick is, pull down the rec center and replace it with the new Bschool which will then be physically connected to the Engineering school via some shared collaboration space. So E school on the north end of 16th and B school on the south end
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That is what I had heard recently, too, from someone that might just know.
Not sure where innovation ally is that you referenced.
Roughly 250 yards from where McCormick stands. If someone is going to make a big donation to Marquette, but won't do it unless the building is 250 yards from where Marquette's well-publicized master campus plan would put it...well, that's a little odd. But, people do odd things all the time.
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Roughly 200 yards from where McCormick stands. If someone is going to make a big donation to Marquette, but won't do it unless the building is 200 yards from where Marquette's well-publicized master campus plan would put it...well, that's a little odd. But, people do odd things all the time.
Maybe the person disagrees with the Master Plan. I’m guessing with people donating that level of money, they have opinions on how it should be used, right or wrong.
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Maybe the person disagrees with the Master Plan. I’m guessing with people donating that level of money, they have opinions on how it should be used, right or wrong.
Clearly.
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There's a master plan document with all this information, including some renderings.
https://www.marquette.edu/strategic-planning/documents/master-plan-campus-watermark.pdf
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Sigh. No. Just one account...this one.
Wow... Rocky musta stepped up the efforts with the IP tracker. Or your VPN skillz are fading.
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That just seems like an odd request. Why would someone ask for that? Because it will get more eyeballs on the guy's name than if it was on 16th and Michigan?
Any institution of higher education that wants to be competitive over the next 50 years needs to have a business school that is both a physical and academic focal point on campus.
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Any institution of higher education that wants to be competitive over the next 50 years needs to have a business school that is both a physical and academic focal point on campus.
So you are saying that any b-school that had the top academic programs in the country would be significantly downgraded if its building is located a half-block from the main intersection of campus.
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Wow... Rocky musta stepped up the efforts with the IP tracker. Or your VPN skillz are fading.
Or maybe just a bunch of people incorrectly that others are me and they're wrong. Occam's Razor. As an aside, I'd be happy to re-inherit the original CBB username.
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Any institution of higher education that wants to be competitive over the next 50 years needs to have a business school that is both a physical and academic focal point on campus.
Funny that the #1 business school in the country isn't on the Quad anymore like it was in my day. ::)
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Or maybe just a bunch of people incorrectly that others are me and they're wrong. Occam's Razor. As an aside, I'd be happy to re-inherit the original CBB username.
I would be supportive of that.
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If you can't understand the difference between 16th and Clybourn and 16th and Wisconsin, well, okay then.
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Maybe the person disagrees with the Master Plan. I’m guessing with people donating that level of money, they have opinions on how it should be used, right or wrong.
It's the golden rule....the one with the gold rules.
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Bad MLB is still elite tho. Tonight I got a babysitter for a team that took a 10 hour bus to MKE and started 3 guys who might not crack the rotation at Thomas More. I totally get ppl staying home.
I would rather watch my alma mater play any team than watch two crap baseball teams play a meaningless mid-August game that will last 4 hours because of the 14 pitching changes.
Hell, I'd have rather gone to last night's game than a playoff baseball game if I didn't have rooting interest in one of the ballclubs. Why? Because I have a connection to Marquette. I feel totally cool about saying "we," because we are Marquette.
My son asked a couple of years ago if I had a choice between the team I was coaching winning a championship, Marquette winning a national title or the Panthers winning the Super Bowl, how would I prioritize it. It was easy for me. I'd choose the team I'm coaching first -- I am living and breathing that. It's my life. It's my sweat and toil. And I personally know the kids. I would choose Marquette second. I am a Warrior. I spent 4 years living and dying with the Warriors, I have pride in being from Marquette. And then the Panthers. I really want them to win because I'm a fan, but I have no real connection other than being a fan.
If I lived within 50 miles of Milwaukee, I'd have season tickets to the Warriors and I would never miss a game unless I had some other major commitment.
I don't think that means I am a "great" fan or "better" than anybody else. It just means I am a fan, it's my alma mater, I've paid for the tix anyway, I might as well go root for the team and school I claim to care so much about.
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Funny that the #1 business school in the country isn't on the Quad anymore like it was in my day. ::)
You’re confusing “focal point” with “center of attention.” Also, please note the use of the article “a,” not “the.”
And does Bucky even have quads anymore? No safe spaces in a parallelogram. Or were you talking about the UW-Madison of Massachusetts?
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If you can't understand the difference between 16th and Clybourn and 16th and Wisconsin, well, okay then.
If you look at the campus master plan, a lot of thought went into where they are placing these buildings. They are putting the new residence halls further north so putting the rec center at 16th and Wisconsin makes a lot of sense. Furthermore, they are putting the business building on 16th and Clybourn and connecting it to a conference center placed where the old gym is. Again, that makes sense since there will be a lot of connections between that center and the college of business.
Master plans aren't done like placing furniture in your living room. You just can't plop buildings somewhere haphazardly. Moving that building to 16th and Wisconsin upends a great deal of what they are trying to accomplish. I guess it depends on how much the donor is willing to give and how important it is, but it isn't going to be easy to do.
And regardless of the location, my guess is the building will be spectacular so it will become a focal point regardless of location.
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If you look at the campus master plan, a lot of thought went into where they are placing these buildings. They are putting the new residence halls further north so putting the rec center at 16th and Wisconsin makes a lot of sense. Furthermore, they are putting the business building on 16th and Clybourn and connecting it to a conference center placed where the old gym is. Again, that makes sense since there will be a lot of connections between that center and the college of business.
Master plans aren't done like placing furniture in your living room. You just can't plop buildings somewhere haphazardly. Moving that building to 16th and Wisconsin upends a great deal of what they are trying to accomplish. I guess it depends on how much the donor is willing to give and how important it is, but it isn't going to be easy to do.
And regardless of the location, my guess is the building will be spectacular so it will become a focal point regardless of location.
I know MU doesn't have a great track record of thinking things through, but one would assume that in a decision like moving the business school building, MU has indeed thought about how it affects the rest of the plan.
Also, how old is the master plan everyone keeps referencing? There is a distinct possibility that it has been changed and none of us give enough money to have been consulted.
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Also, how old is the master plan everyone keeps referencing? There is a distinct possibility that it has been changed and none of us give enough money to have been consulted.
It was released in January of 2017.
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As a general rule of thumb; master plans don't get adjusted very much (if at all) once they've been released. If a donor has enough money and is stubborn enough, sure, they can get what they want where they want, but the vast majority of the time, all design decisions will be made by the Architects, Urban Planners, and Master Planners. I would be pretty shocked if any academic building goes north of Wisconsin.
Also, what Sultan said is pretty spot on, the people that put these together know what they're doing.
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As a general rule of thumb; master plans don't get adjusted very much (if at all) once they've been released. If a donor has enough money and is stubborn enough, sure, they can get what they want where they want, but the vast majority of the time, all design decisions will be made by the Architects, Urban Planners, and Master Planners. I would be pretty shocked if any academic building goes north of Wisconsin.
Also, what Sultan said is pretty spot on, the people that put these together know what they're doing.
If this is about the ego of the donor (which it certainly sounds like), I am sure the university could come up with an alternative that would satisfy him. If the size of the check is big enough, perhaps the entire Innovation Alley could be named after him. That way, they could put a big sign on 16th and Wisconsin with his name on it.
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If this is about the ego of the donor (which it certainly sounds like), I am sure the university could come up with an alternative that would satisfy him. If the size of the check is big enough, perhaps the entire Innovation Alley could be named after him. That way, they could put a big sign on 16th and Wisconsin with his name on it.
Yep, there are usually (but not always) ways to accommodate everyone. Having your name be bigger on the side of a building is usually a viable solution.
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Yep, there are usually (but not always) ways to accommodate everyone. Having your name be bigger on the side of a building is usually a viable solution.
When I was a student, the words "Marquette University" on the side of Helfaer Recreation Center was the most visible sign on the South-facing end of campus. You can see it from I-94 and the Marquette Interchange. That is exactly where the new B-School is going. I don't know why anyone would think that would be less prominent placement than up on Wisconsin Avenue. It gets exponentially more eyeballs.
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Also, as a side note, I would not be at all surprised if that sky-bridge from Innovation Alley to the Old Gym never happens. Bells and whistles like that are often just thrown in, knowing that they'll likely be cut, in order to ask for more money. Elaborate water features are another feature that falls into this category.
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Also, as a side note, I would not be at all surprised if that sky-bridge from Innovation Alley to the Old Gym never happens. Bells and whistles like that are often just thrown in, knowing that they'll likely be cut, in order to ask for more money. Elaborate water features are another feature that falls into this category.
I do hope they keep their plan to renovate the Old Gym into nice meeting and event space. I thought that it was a great idea. There is a lot of potential there.
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If this is about the ego of the donor (which it certainly sounds like), I am sure the university could come up with an alternative that would satisfy him. If the size of the check is big enough, perhaps the entire Innovation Alley could be named after him. That way, they could put a big sign on 16th and Wisconsin with his name on it.
I'm going to play devil's advocate, but how do you know its a him?
That is exactly where the new B-School is going.
Obviously, there are people in the know what have seen and heard differently.
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And let us not forget that the last 'donor driven naming rights' situation didn't work out too well. Now before everyone gets upset, I'm not in any way blaming the wonderful donors or the incredible person (in my eyes) they tried to honor. I'm just saying that it'll be long after Fr. Wild's passing before any consideration can be made to renaming that signature space. If MU had just listened a little longer to a few of us organized scoopers this might have been all avoided. Again, not anyone's fault.
That said, of course there are alterations to the Master Plan. The new AHPRC sits on a site that the Master Plan originally contemplated as student housing down the road. But that's a tweak, not a conceptual change. Great effort went into developing the campus for the next century to be one of the signature urban universities in the country. Compare even today's footprint to the hodgepodge of 40 years ago. You don't throw that away because some dude with $50 million says so. Set a precedent like that and you create a mess.
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I'm going to play devil's advocate, but how do you know its a him?
Obviously, there are people in the know what have seen and heard differently.
Women are nurses or teachers, not businessmen. *ducks*
(I hope you uptight PC crusaders know this is only a joke.)
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I'm going to play devil's advocate, but how do you know its a him?
I was waiting for someone to say that....
Given the ego-driven demand, I would bet my retirement fund (sorry, glow) that it is a man. Either that, or a married couple where the husband is making that particular call.
Obviously, there are people in the know what have seen and heard differently.
That indeed is where the B-school is going per the Master Plan.
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Women are nurses or teachers, not businessmen. *ducks*
(I hope you uptight PC crusaders know this is only a joke.)
Kinda hard for a woman to be a businessman honestly.
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Back in 2009 when I was still a civil engineering student, we had a Q/A with the University's architect or planner (don't remember his exact title).
He told us when planning was going on for Cudahy Hall, Marquette wanted the building to be brick to match the theme of the surrounding buildings and future planned buildings. The donors demanded the building have a granite exterior despite Marquette's requests so that's what they went with.
And now Cudahy doesn't match a damn thing around it.
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Women are nurses or teachers, not businessmen. *ducks*
(I hope you uptight PC crusaders know this is only a joke.)
Yes. This is a wonderful joke. You are making fun of the idea that women can only go into certain fields.
Now if you were making fun of someone for being a woman, that is where someone might say something about your joke.
(http://media.giphy.com/media/3og0IMJcSI8p6hYQXS/giphy.gif)
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Back in 2009 when I was still a civil engineering student, we had a Q/A with the University's architect or planner (don't remember his exact title).
He told us when planning was going on for Cudahy Hall, Marquette wanted the building to be brick to match the theme of the surrounding buildings and future planned buildings. The donors demanded the building have a granite exterior despite Marquette's requests so that's what they went with.
And now Cudahy doesn't match a damn thing around it.
I forgot about this until now.
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If this is about the ego of the donor (which it certainly sounds like), I am sure the university could come up with an alternative that would satisfy him. If the size of the check is big enough, perhaps the entire Innovation Alley could be named after him. That way, they could put a big sign on 16th and Wisconsin with his name on it.
How due y'all like da ring of "4everwarriors Innovation Alley," hey?
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I'm going to play devil's advocate, but how do you know its a him?
Obviously, there are people in the know what have seen and heard differently.
It's a couple.....no in sight into who is swinging the club against MU of the two of them
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Frankly, the spelling and grammar would reflect poorly on the school. Unless it was just the dentistry school. Then it is to be expected.
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How due y'all like da ring of "4everwarriors Innovation Alley," hey?
pass
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How due y'all like da ring of "4everwarriors Innovation Alley," hey?
Eye like it, butt wuldnt it hafta bee "Foreevverwarreeors Inovayshun Allee"?
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If you look at the campus master plan, a lot of thought went into where they are placing these buildings. They are putting the new residence halls further north so putting the rec center at 16th and Wisconsin makes a lot of sense. Furthermore, they are putting the business building on 16th and Clybourn and connecting it to a conference center placed where the old gym is. Again, that makes sense since there will be a lot of connections between that center and the college of business.
Master plans aren't done like placing furniture in your living room. You just can't plop buildings somewhere haphazardly. Moving that building to 16th and Wisconsin upends a great deal of what they are trying to accomplish. I guess it depends on how much the donor is willing to give and how important it is, but it isn't going to be easy to do.
And regardless of the location, my guess is the building will be spectacular so it will become a focal point regardless of location.
Shouldn’t the residents as part of their pilgrimage to the Rec center want the extra block or two for the workout?
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It's a couple.....no in sight into who is swinging the club against MU of the two of them
GlowChick School of Bizness has a ring to it
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GlowChick School of Bizness has a ring to it
Sandstorm playing all the time.
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How due y'all like da ring of "4everwarriors Innovation Alley," hey?
I would definitely show up for the ground breaking ceremony.
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How due y'all like da ring of "4everwarriors Innovation Alley," hey?
Only if the dental school connects to the engineering building.
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Cheeks, did you create a new account just to post this?
I’ve heard it now from two other sources that the info I got was on target. Sounds like something is up, but university give in to the request made for donor to provide gift?
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Texas just approved a new arena for Shaka and company. 10,000 seats for hoops, 15K for concerts. $338M. UT to control concessions and all revenue streams.
That's an expensive building.
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Texas just approved a new arena for Shaka and company. 10,000 seats for hoops, 15K for concerts. $338M. UT to control concessions and all revenue streams.
That's an expensive building.
Wait, so Texas, a school with about a zillion students, thinks it only needs a 10K-seat basketball arena?
I happen to concur. That will be plenty big enough for most of their games, and there are other places they can play for games that might draw bigger crowds.
We obviously could do the same, if needed.
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Wait, so Texas, a school with about a zillion students, thinks it only needs a 10K-seat basketball arena?
I happen to concur. That will be plenty big enough for most of their games, and there are other places they can play for games that might draw bigger crowds.
We obviously could do the same, if needed.
Their current arena seats about 16.5K for a basketball game. For roughly 4 or 5 years in the 2000's they averaged between 12K and 14.5K, but not since. Sounds like they plan on creating some demand by shrinking.
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Austin probably doesn't already have five arena-sized venues for concerts like Milwaukee does. It makes more sense for them to build a big honkin' arena if they can draw concerts. MU can't do that with all the other arenas in the area.
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Texas just approved a new arena for Shaka and company. 10,000 seats for hoops, 15K for concerts. $338M. UT to control concessions and all revenue streams.
That's an expensive building.
Not even the markup on unleaded near MCO can hold a candle to the markup on stadiums and arenas in Texas.
(Building would cost $150M anywhere else.)
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Thought I'd bring that this thread now that we know the Business School will be at Wisconsin and 16th, the land by east hall has been (or is going to be) rezoned, and a scaled down Athletic research center has been built. Any new perspectives on this conversation? We already nearly halfway through our lease. Wondering if the Shaka hire will awaken some quiet donors. Didn't the casino want to build something on their land at one point? Or is Fiserv still the best option for MU? In a vacuum, I still dream of a more intimate college hoops experience. Is UWM really gonna stay at the Mecca? Guess they have to...Anyone know anything new or interesting on this front?
That model still on Lovell's desk? Ha
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Not going to happen.
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Would love to see us just play at the Al for 1 yr because I have to imagine that'd get the Fiserve to knock down rent realizing it's a symbiotic relationship.
Am I crazy or do they not need us as badly as I think?
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Shaka sees the Fiserv as an advantage. Never happening.
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Not going to happen.
What's not going to happen?
MU looking into it's own arena?
The B-school going on the McCormick land?
MU firing Wojo?
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The Lens
Fair questions.
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Could just rotate each home game at the numerous iconic gyms throughout the Milwaukee area, ai'na? Start with Marquette High, check out Mount Mary College, go to the Cousins Center, etc.
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Could just rotate each home game at the numerous iconic gyms throughout the Milwaukee area, ai'na? Start with Marquette High, check out Mount Mary College, go to the Cousins Center, etc.
Play all the games on a floor we put in the soccer/lacrosse bubble. Make it standing room only!
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What's not going to happen?
MU looking into it's own arena?
The B-school going on the McCormick land?
MU firing Wojo?
I'm still skeptical they will have the guts to fire Wojo. And when/if they do and the first words out of Jeff Goodman's mouth are/were "Shaka Smart" I remain even more skeptical he's an option.
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Waste of money.
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I'm still skeptical they will have the guts to fire Wojo. And when/if they do and the first words out of Jeff Goodman's mouth are/were "Shaka Smart" I remain even more skeptical he's an option.
Fire a coach in a pandemic? Never
Hire a HC from a Power 5 school? Also Never
If you believe either of those things can happen I have a Business School on NE corner of 16th & Wisconsin to sell you.
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Risky Business School
The Risky School Of Business
The School Of Risky Business
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What's not going to happen?
MU looking into it's own arena?
The B-school going on the McCormick land?
MU firing Wojo?
Ha. Agree with the sentiment Lens. But Chick is right unless half of that 750 million dollar campaign or more is ear marked for the new arena.
I don’t want the team to play in a crape hole.
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Shaka sees the Fiserv as an advantage. Never happening.
Shaka says that. He can sell anything.
If we built a new, intimate, 10,000-seat arena just for Marquette, with all of the state-of-the-art whistles and bells for coaches, players and recruits, Shaka almost surely would say, "We have the XXXXX Center, and it's a huge advantage!"
Obviously, I'm not saying any of this will happen. Indeed, like you I doubt it ever will. But Shaka's just a coach. This decision (if there ever was gonna be a decision on this topic) is way above his position at our alma mater.
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Could just rotate each home game at the numerous iconic gyms throughout the Milwaukee area, ai'na? Start with Marquette High, check out Mount Mary College, go to the Cousins Center, etc.
You had me at Mount Mary
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Shaka says that. He can sell anything.
If we built a new, intimate, 10,000-seat arena just for Marquette, with all of the state-of-the-art whistles and bells for coaches, players and recruits, Shaka almost surely would say, "We have the XXXXX Center, and it's a huge advantage!"
Obviously, I'm not saying any of this will happen. Indeed, like you I doubt it ever will. But Shaka's just a coach. This decision (if there ever was gonna be a decision on this topic) is way above his position at our alma mater.
Al McGuire never won a game at Fiserv Forum, so we should leave ASAP IMO
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You had me at Mount Mary
That's a place, not an order, Gooooo.
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I think an on campus arena is a terrible idea and I don't understand people who romanticize about this at all. We play in arguably the greatest basketball facility in the country with a huge infrastructure of bars/restaurants within blocks. I can't think of many better set-ups for a game-day experience.
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I think an on campus arena is a terrible idea and I don't understand people who romanticize about this at all. We play in arguably the greatest basketball facility in the country with a huge infrastructure of bars/restaurants within blocks. I can't think of many better set-ups for a game-day experience.
Ditto
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I think an on campus arena is a terrible idea and I don't understand people who romanticize about this at all. We play in arguably the greatest basketball facility in the country with a huge infrastructure of bars/restaurants within blocks. I can't think of many better set-ups for a game-day experience.
+1
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I think an on campus arena is a terrible idea and I don't understand people who romanticize about this at all. We play in arguably the greatest basketball facility in the country with a huge infrastructure of bars/restaurants within blocks. I can't think of many better set-ups for a game-day experience.
I don't think many would disagree with you, however the Bucks threatened the DNC last May with a lawsuit on back rent and implied they would give the DNC slot to Trump. They will do ANYTHING for a buck (no pun intended) so we need to keep our options open. We can't assume we will always have 20 dates at the Fiserv at a rent price that makes sense.
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I think an on campus arena is a terrible idea and I don't understand people who romanticize about this at all. We play in arguably the greatest basketball facility in the country with a huge infrastructure of bars/restaurants within blocks. I can't think of many better set-ups for a game-day experience.
The gameday experience at MU is so unique when you compare it to other schools.
Not to mention the additional dollars that come in through premium areas. Think about the BMO Lounge on the arena floor level. They can freaking gouge people for that access and it's 10x better than the old setup at the BC. I doubt they'd be able to replicate that on campus.
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Also, I’m not sure an on-campus arena would save that much money. Wasn’t the BC maintenance costs getting pretty outrageous?
I definitely get that the Bucks owners aren’t doing MU any favors on rent, but still think it’s the best place for MU to be. Also, how many events can FF book on a Tuesday night in January that drives as much revenue as an MU game?
The value of having 20 locked and loaded dates is pretty high I would think. Not to mention, you could still have a Bucks game later that night for weekend games. I don’t know how easy that would be with a concert or Disney on Ice.
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Also, I’m not sure an on-campus arena would save that much money. Wasn’t the BC maintenance costs getting pretty outrageous?
I definitely get that the Bucks owners aren’t doing MU any favors on rent, but still think it’s the best place for MU to be. Also, how many events can FF book on a Tuesday night in January that drives as much revenue as an MU game?
The value of having 20 locked and loaded dates is pretty high I would think. Not to mention, you could still have a Bucks game later that night for weekend games. I don’t know how easy that would be with a concert or Disney on Ice.
That's why I wish we had a way to call their bluff they know they have the premier spot we need. If we could stick it to them by taking away a few non con games or something I feel like that'd be huge for negotiation.
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Carson Ribs Bennydrome
#donedeal
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If MU played in an on campus arena, wouldn’t they not be able to sell alcohol?
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If MU played in an on campus arena, wouldn’t they not be able to sell alcohol?
Thought the NCAA lifted that a few years ago?
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Rather than spending $50 million to $150 million to build a new arena, wouldn't it be wiser to hit up the potential project donors to contribute to a FiservForum rent trust? Could probably cover it perpetually for $50million+ and not have all of the upkeep headaches, parking problems and space concerns. Also permits us to continue to use an NBA arena.
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Would love to see us just play at the Al for 1 yr because I have to imagine that'd get the Fiserve to knock down rent realizing it's a symbiotic relationship.
Am I crazy or do they not need us as badly as I think?
Let's set up a poll. Might be shocked at the results, hey?
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Let's set up a poll. Might be shocked at the results, hey?
Hey hey hey, haina?
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That's why I wish we had a way to call their bluff they know they have the premier spot we need. If we could stick it to them by taking away a few non con games or something I feel like that'd be huge for negotiation.
Why should Marquette want to "stick it to them?"
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That's a place, not an order, Gooooo.
My bad.
Carry on…
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Why should Marquette want to "stick it to them?"
Because didnt they raise rent to something absurd compared to the Bradley Center during negotiations? Or is that in my head?
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Because didnt they raise rent to something absurd compared to the Bradley Center during negotiations? Or is that in my head?
Maybe. But that's because they have something they know we want. Holding a couple meaningless buy games at the Al isn't going to change their tune.
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Because didnt they raise rent to something absurd compared to the Bradley Center during negotiations? Or is that in my head?
I believe the rumors were the Bucks were very tough to negotiate with. However, I believe some of that is due to the mindset of Herb Kohl and having Marc Marotta as head of the BC Board. If I remember right, MU was getting a really good deal with those two in charge. I think the new Bucks regime is much more financially motivated.
Also, I think while we have a higher rent, we now get some of the game day revenues. We didn’t have that before if memory serves correctly.
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Just curious about what may have changed (or not changed) since this thread was born. Interesting.
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Just curious about what may have changed (or not changed) since this thread was born. Interesting.
MU announced they are selling the land to a developer for housing.
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is that Ramada still there? Not only was that a place we'd have parties when I was at MU (cheap suites with bars in them) but it's where George Costanza booked the Yankees to the chagrin of Bernie Williams and Derek Jeter.
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Just curious about what may have changed (or not changed) since this thread was born. Interesting.
I guess I wasn’t aware of the land sale, but not sure a whole lot has changed. I’m sure it’s something Lovell and team have a pulse on to use for negotiation purposes.
I don’t know that it will ever make fiscal sense for MU to do it. However, if rent gets outlandish and the Bucks only give them Wednesday night and Sunday morning slots, the math might change. I don’t see that happening as I assume MU games bring value to the Bucks.
They could use the MECCA as a bargaining chip if things get dire, but the game experience there isn’t even close to the BC. It was fun for one nostalgia Bucks game, but outdated to be a regular venue.
I also don’t know if how the Athletic Performance Center fell apart made things a little frosty for the FF negotiation.
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is that Ramada still there? Not only was that a place we'd have parties when I was at MU (cheap suites with bars in them) but it's where George Costanza booked the Yankees to the chagrin of Bernie Williams and Derek Jeter.
MU keeping the Ramada building and parcel. But hotel closed.
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We play in arguably the greatest basketball facility in the country with a huge infrastructure of bars/restaurants within blocks. I can't think of many better set-ups for a game-day experience.
I love it there. But is this a price-is-no-object thing? What we have now is the Bucks telling us: "Pay up. Take it or leave it."
Rather than spending $50 million to $150 million to build a new arena, wouldn't it be wiser to hit up the potential project donors to contribute to a FiservForum rent trust? Could probably cover it perpetually for $50million+ and not have all of the upkeep headaches, parking problems and space concerns. Also permits us to continue to use an NBA arena.
Good idea, but maybe not sexy enough to motivate big donors.
They could use the MECCA as a bargaining chip if things get dire, but the game experience there isn’t even close.
Well, somehow, we had an incredible, incredible, incredible game experience at The Arena once upon a zillion years ago. Field a great, entertaining team that wins 90%+ of the time and make deep tournament runs nearly every year under a charismatic coach, and you'll offer your fans a great experience no matter where you play. (Note: I am NOT advocating we return there, just playing devil's advocate.)
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it's where George Costanza booked the Yankees to the chagrin of Bernie Williams and Derek Jeter.
I never made this connection. Thank you for this.
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Boggles the mind anyone would want to play at the “Mecca” or the Al over Fiserv. If Shaka starts winning games, the Fiserv will rock and be twice as loud as the BC ever was.
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Boggles the mind anyone would want to play at the “Mecca” or the Al over Fiserv. If Shaka starts winning games, the Fiserv will rock and be twice as loud as the BC ever was.
I just want negotiating power. I don't want to actually play in the AL.
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Good idea, but maybe not sexy enough to motivate big donors.
Then you endow something sexy and use the budget savings from that endowment elsewhere. It's all fungible.
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Then you endow something sexy and use the budget savings from that endowment elsewhere. It's all fungible.
I hear ya. Can't spell fungible without the f-u-n!
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I love it there. But is this a price-is-no-object thing? What we have now is the Bucks telling us: "Pay up. Take it or leave it."
Good idea, but maybe not sexy enough to motivate big donors.
Well, somehow, we had an incredible, incredible, incredible game experience at The Arena once upon a zillion years ago. Field a great, entertaining team that wins 90%+ of the time and make deep tournament runs nearly every year under a charismatic coach, and you'll offer your fans a great experience no matter where you play. (Note: I am NOT advocating we return there, just playing devil's advocate.)
The UWM Panther Arena (what they now call the MECCA) is a DUMP and no amount of money will fix that. It's off the table.
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The UWM Panther Arena (what they now call the MECCA) is a DUMP and no amount of money will fix that. It's off the table.
Anyone who speaks positively about Panther Arena has either not been there in a decade or is still so drunk off 70s Al Kool-Aid that they can't ever be objective. Plenty of things were great nearly 50 years ago that STINK now. And thats what that place is. Complaints about the BC I get, but Marquette can play in a brand new basketball focused arena that will be better than anything they could ever build on campus, unless someone wants to puke up $250MM.
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The rent at the BC was the same for several years. I think by the time of the move it was $29k per game. Fiserv is around $60k per game.
While it's a big jump, they got used to a bargain rate.
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Anyone who speaks positively about Panther Arena has either not been there in a decade or is still so drunk off 70s Al Kool-Aid that they can't ever be objective. Plenty of things were great nearly 50 years ago that STINK now. And thats what that place is. Complaints about the BC I get, but Marquette can play in a brand new basketball focused arena that will be better than anything they could ever build on campus, unless someone wants to puke up $250MM.
no doubt. Some games for the sake of nostalgia in the 90's (USF NIT game, Santa Clara with Steve Nash, Minnesota in 2000) were cool but that's it. It doesn't have the revenue-generating amenities we need. Any MU arena will need to have suites and possibly club seating. That cannot be done at the MECCA.
The biggest issue with Fiserv moving forward is the profit we're turning and atmosphere - can Shaka get it back to the way the BC was for that Nova game.
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The rent at the BC was the same for several years. I think by the time of the move it was $29k per game. Fiserv is around $60k per game.
While it's a big jump, they got used to a bargain rate.
If this is true, the maintenance costs alone of having our own arena would be several times what our Fiserv rent is.
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In a complete unrealistic pipe dream, I think fans (likely students more than older alums) would be drawn to an environment where it was more intimate, seats closer to the floor, Marquette centric branding/banners/history everywhere. Not a reason to build a place, but I think that's kind of the romance of some of these other arenas.
Personally, what I'd love to know is if Fiserv could replicate what NC State has down in Raleigh - they play in a giant hockey arena but have figured out a way to put students around the floor for a few rows...or other things to make it more intimate and collegiate-feeling. Always been impressed by that. Can still sell floor seats on the other side.
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Of course, this will be decided on the basis of money, money, money.
I've already decided - on the basis of beer. If you can't get beer at a game on campus, I hope it never happens in my lifetime. Some things are just too sacred to mess with.
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imho....sell the hell out of getting to play in the same arena as the bucks and hope it helps with recruiting. win like buzz won...and have one of the better attendance #'s in CBB.
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is that Ramada still there? Not only was that a place we'd have parties when I was at MU (cheap suites with bars in them) but it's where George Costanza booked the Yankees to the chagrin of Bernie Williams and Derek Jeter.
MU keeping the Ramada building and parcel. But hotel closed.
https://youtu.be/SZz_rbAmfmY (https://youtu.be/SZz_rbAmfmY)
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So Marquette is paying 600k more than the Bradley center a year,30k x 20 dates, to play at fiserv.... move on please.
The allure of a nba arena and the program image of being first class way outweighs the option of an on campus arena.
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If this is true, the maintenance costs alone of having our own arena would be several times what our Fiserv rent is.
Even if that figure is $120K per game (assuming concessions, profit FF gets on ticket sales, parking, etc.) the ROI would be at least 20 years. Add on the maintenance costs and upgrades (state of the art today is not going to be state of the art in 10 years) and it's a money pit.
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In a complete unrealistic pipe dream, I think fans (likely students more than older alums) would be drawn to an environment where it was more intimate, seats closer to the floor, Marquette centric branding/banners/history everywhere. Not a reason to build a place, but I think that's kind of the romance of some of these other arenas.
Personally, what I'd love to know is if Fiserv could replicate what NC State has down in Raleigh - they play in a giant hockey arena but have figured out a way to put students around the floor for a few rows...or other things to make it more intimate and collegiate-feeling. Always been impressed by that. Can still sell floor seats on the other side.
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The UWM Panther Arena (what they now call the MECCA) is a DUMP and no amount of money will fix that. It's off the table.
And I never said otherwise. In fact, I said the opposite. And I started by saying I love playing at Fiserv.
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In a complete unrealistic pipe dream, I think fans (likely students more than older alums) would be drawn to an environment where it was more intimate, seats closer to the floor, Marquette centric branding/banners/history everywhere. Not a reason to build a place, but I think that's kind of the romance of some of these other arenas.
Personally, what I'd love to know is if Fiserv could replicate what NC State has down in Raleigh - they play in a giant hockey arena but have figured out a way to put students around the floor for a few rows...or other things to make it more intimate and collegiate-feeling. Always been impressed by that. Can still sell floor seats on the other side.
I can't think of a better way to piss off the University's most generous donors than to give the primo seats that they have had for decades to a bunch of drunk students.
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When compared to certain other basketball programs, MU for all extents and purposes has an on campus arena. FiServ is not that far from the eastern part of campus and the associated areas off campus. Yes, it is a healthy walk for sure. I have stayed at that Hyatt Place by Fi Serv and been able to walk to the Al pretty easily.
For example , when you look at school like UNC, The Dean Dome is a good long ways away from Franklin Street and fair ways from the center of campus even. Northwestern' s Athletic facilities are a good distance away from the Main campus etc. Crisler Center at Michigan is a haul from the Main Campus. I am sure there are others.
Generally speaking FiServ is a huge asset for the program and the University . Bucks are D Bags and will allways negotiate hard and give no quarter, but we knew that going into the deal.
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I can't think of a better way to piss off the University's most generous donors than to give the primo seats that they have had for decades to a bunch of drunk students.
Especially after we just saw the value of high-dollar donors about a month ago.
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is that Ramada still there? Not only was that a place we'd have parties when I was at MU (cheap suites with bars in them) but it's where George Costanza booked the Yankees to the chagrin of Bernie Williams and Derek Jeter.
Are you the guy who put us in that Ramada in Milwaukee?
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When compared to certain other basketball programs, MU for all extents and purposes has an on campus arena. FiServ is not that far from the eastern part of campus and the associated areas off campus. Yes, it is a healthy walk for sure. I have stayed at that Hyatt Place by Fi Serv and been able to walk to the Al pretty easily.
For example , when you look at school like UNC, The Dean Dome is a good long ways away from Franklin Street and fair ways from the center of campus even. Northwestern' s Athletic facilities are a good distance away from the Main campus etc. Crisler Center at Michigan is a haul from the Main Campus. I am sure there are others.
Generally speaking FiServ is a huge asset for the program and the University . Bucks are D Bags and will allways negotiate hard and give no quarter, but we knew that going into the deal.
You mean the Bucks are D Bags for being a for profit capitalist company looking for their best interest? SOCIALIST!!
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I can't think of a better way to piss off the University's most generous donors than to give the primo seats that they have had for decades to a bunch of drunk students.
Who, if they do show up consistently, spend most the time looking at their phones.
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Anyone who speaks positively about Panther Arena has either not been there in a decade or is still so drunk off 70s Al Kool-Aid that they can't ever be objective. Plenty of things were great nearly 50 years ago that STINK now. And thats what that place is. Complaints about the BC I get, but Marquette can play in a brand new basketball focused arena that will be better than anything they could ever build on campus, unless someone wants to puke up $250MM.
MU could rent the FF at 2.5 million per year for 100 years if a new campus arena would cost that much.
Get your point that the old arena is old, but there was not a bad seat there for a game.
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Who, if they do show up consistently, spend most the time looking at their phones.
WRONG.....it would be an excellent place and pit for college basketball. You dont need to play in a palace! And those seats should go to students!
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MU could rent the FF at 2.5 million per year for 100 years if a new campus arena would cost that much.
I believe one of the main arguments for the on campus arena is we would get to keep all the revenues. That would change the math a bit.
I agree that it doesn’t really make fiscal sense.
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When compared to certain other basketball programs, MU for all extents and purposes has an on campus arena. FiServ is not that far from the eastern part of campus and the associated areas off campus. Yes, it is a healthy walk for sure. I have stayed at that Hyatt Place by Fi Serv and been able to walk to the Al pretty easily.
For example , when you look at school like UNC, The Dean Dome is a good long ways away from Franklin Street and fair ways from the center of campus even. Northwestern' s Athletic facilities are a good distance away from the Main campus etc. Crisler Center at Michigan is a haul from the Main Campus. I am sure there are others.
Generally speaking FiServ is a huge asset for the program and the University . Bucks are D Bags and will allways negotiate hard and give no quarter, but we knew that going into the deal.
And I never said otherwise. In fact, I said the opposite. And I started by saying I love playing at Fiserv.
No its not a dump...
And a dump is appealing even if it is. MU does not need to be at Fiserv. It should go back to his roots and history and move UWM out of Panther Arena. You all just don't know...smh
Dont comment on things you do not know or have never experienced. MU games in that BUILDING were ELECTRIFYING. They have upkept it well over the years.
Most blue bloods play in arenas older than Panther Arena! Allen Fieldhouse, Cameron Indoor Stadium, Hinkle and others...
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Boggles the mind anyone would want to play at the “Mecca” or the Al over Fiserv. If Shaka starts winning games, the Fiserv will rock and be twice as loud as the BC ever was.
My young friend...TRUST ME....NO..........IT..........WOULD........NOT...Be LOUDER at Fiserv than THE MECCA!!! I am not saying listen to me...but dont make comparative or even definitive statements unless you actually watched an MU game there that was sold out or not. I have. And I been to sold out Bradley Center and Fiserv, and neither compared to the Mecca to me.
And it is not just about noise as it is about proximity and intimacy and energy. yes any arena can get loud on sheer numbers...But it differs in intensity with the school band in a place it can be heard and fans sitting in the low level...there are different kinds of fan noise and impact fans can have in one venue compared to another.
No way. That arena is built for bedlam. Take it from me who has been there for MU games. You are speculating. The way the arena is built all noise goes down on the floor with every fan on top or you.
Do not even compare it to Fiserv. No college teams in my opinion should play and take up resident in an NBA arena! It's a pipe dream but they should have switch this years ago and go back to the Mecca.
NO COLLEGE TEAM...nada. It spoils them and robs them of tradition and university spirit!
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I love UWM Panther Arena. The upgrades in the last five years thanks to the Milwaukee Admirals have been great! With that said, Marquette should give that place 0% thought about being in that Arena. The UWMPA serves it's purpose great for the Admirals, Wave, Panthers, roller derby, concerts, graduations, etc.
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No its not a dump...
And a dump is appealing even if it is. MU does not need to be at Fiserv. It should go back to his roots and history and move UWM out of Panther Arena. You all just don't know...smh
Dont comment on things you do not know or have never experienced. MU games in that BUILDING were ELECTRIFYING. They have upkept it well over the years.
Most blue bloods play in arenas older than Panther Arena! Allen Fieldhouse, Cameron Indoor Stadium, Hinkle and others...
1. We'd be cutting about 3k-7k people out of games by playing at the Panther arena. That's a terrible decision.
2. After years of the BC and Fiserv it is a dump. Objectively? No it's not in danger of collapsing or anything but people would be saying "why are we at this place"
3. Recruits wants fancy things, it'd be a hindrance not an advantage.
4. We are not a blue blood. If Duke basketball went through 10yrs of what MU did from 83-93 then Cameron wouldn't be what it is now days and Duke would have to make fancy adjustments to it to get people in.
5. Hinkle, while older, is historically intriguing with the exposed iron work and brick. It's like being at Wrigley or Fenway. The panther arena is not like that.
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My young friend...TRUST ME....NO..........IT..........WOULD........NOT...BUT LOUDER THAN THE MECCA!!!
Hell no. That arena is built for bedlam. Take it from me who has been there for MU games. You are speculating. The way the arena is built all noise goes down on the floor with every fan on top or you.
Do not even compare it to Fiserv. No college teams in my opinion should play and take up resident in an NBA arena!
NO COLLEGE TEAM...nada. It spoils them and robs them of tradition and university spirit!
You mean the arena that was built...for an NBA team and was an NBA arena the entire time Marquette played there?
And if you think it’s been “kept up well”, I’ll just assume you have been to very very arenas in your life. It’s a dark dump, and not in an endearing way. The only think it has in common with places like Cameron or Hinkle is that it’s old.
AL isn’t walking through the door and recruits won’t be impressed by a dated dreary arena cause it was rocking 50 years ago. Stop acting like it’s still 1977 and we should be approaching everything the same way
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You mean the arena that was built...for an NBA team and was an NBA arena the entire time Marquette played there?
And if you think it’s been “kept up well”, I’ll just assume you have been to very very arenas in your life. It’s a dark dump, and not in an endearing way. The only think it has in common with places like Cameron or Hinkle is that it’s old.
AL isn’t walking through the door and recruits won’t be impressed by a dated dreary arena cause it was rocking 50 years ago. Stop acting like it’s still 1977 and we should be approaching everything the same way
Hahaha didn't catch that great point.
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I think HoopsFan is joking but not entirely sure...
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Marquette to the players: "Yeah I know we sold you in playing in an NBA arena, but we are going back to a building we last played in 35 years ago because it ROCKED in the 70s!!!"
Players: "How do you enter the transfer portal?"
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I think HoopsFan is joking but not entirely sure...
Looking at his posting history it's actually hilarious how much he's been wrong. I mean you'd almost have to be trying to be wrong as much as him.
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I love UWM Panther Arena. The upgrades in the last five years thanks to the Milwaukee Admirals have been great! With that said, Marquette should give that place 0% thought about being in that Arena. The UWMPA serves it's purpose great for the Admirals, Wave, Panthers, roller derby, concerts, graduations, etc.
Agree that the improvements in the last 5 years or so are very nice. Obviously it’s an old and dated arena and definitely not a place for MU to play, but it’s noticeably better than what it was a decade ago.
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I think HoopsFan is joking but not entirely sure...
He has to be joking. Just from the lost recruits alone it would be a disaster. Comparing how exciting the games were 40-50 years ago, to what the experience would be like at the arena in today's age is just absurd and I honestly don't think he could be serious, or if he is, that is some genuine loss of touch with reality.
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I love the fact that we have had a thread on changing the Warriors name back and now an on campus arena thread. We only need another on restarting the football program to get to the trifecta. Once achieved they can go back into the vault to be resurrected five years from now.
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You mean the Bucks are D Bags for being a for profit capitalist company looking for their best interest? SOCIALIST!!
Actually the socialism was when they got $264 million from the state for their arena.
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I love the fact that we have had a thread on changing the Warriors name back and now an on campus arena thread. We only need another on restarting the football program to get to the trifecta. Once achieved they can go back into the vault to be resurrected five years from now.
Five years? I know you're not new here...so I'll just assume that you've never frequented Scoop in the offseason. It's far, far more likely that we'll cycle through all three topics again this off season than wait another five years before they come up again.
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I think HoopsFan is joking but not entirely sure...
I'm not gonna settle for second-best. I'm holding out to see what MUHoopsFan1 says.
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I love the fact that we have had a thread on changing the Warriors name back and now an on campus arena thread. We only need another on restarting the football program to get to the trifecta. Once achieved they can go back into the vault to be resurrected five years from now.
You forgot about bringing back the medical school.
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You forgot about bringing back the medical school.
Was a big mistake to ever give up the Medical School .
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When are we gonna bring back the bumblebee uniforms, dammit!?!?
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Sorry I'm not sorry for starting this thread.
8-)
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You forgot about bringing back the medical school.
How about bringing back Jesuit professors.
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Was a big mistake to ever give up the Medical School .
We could see the cadaver dissections from the 8th floor of McCormick.
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We could see the cadaver dissections from the 8th floor of McCormick.
8th Floor Represent!
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You forgot about bringing back the medical school.
Would it make sense to close Wisconsin Ave?
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Should marquette really be coed?
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Would it make sense to close Wisconsin Ave?
Absolutely not.
Skitching on city buses on a snow covered Wisconsin Avenue was a time honored tradition for the Men of McCormick 8.
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Any y'all 'member da walkin' tunnel under Wisconsin Ave. at 13th St., hey?
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Bring back The Rabbits!
https://medium.com/news-from-raynor-memorial-libraries/chasing-the-rabbits-dd19083bafca
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Absolutely not.
Skitching on city buses on a snow covered Wisconsin Avenue was a time honored tradition for the Men of McCormick 8.
I’ll assume that you -somehow- are not aware of Linda Tully’s horrible injury, 24 years in a coma, and, ultimately, death, as a result of skitching on Tom Copa’ s truck in 1985. But, heh, tradition!
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Any y'all 'member da walkin' tunnel under Wisconsin Ave. at 13th St., hey?
Yes Had to get out of the cold for 5 minutes in the walk to the MECCA or Bradley Center.
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I’ll assume that you -somehow- are not aware of Linda Tully’s horrible injury, 24 years in a coma, and, ultimately, death, as a result of skitching on Tom Copa’ s truck in 1985. But, heh, tradition!
I just watched Fiddler on the Roof again over the weekend. Tradition!
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Bring back The Rabbits!
https://medium.com/news-from-raynor-memorial-libraries/chasing-the-rabbits-dd19083bafca
Ah, the Rabbits! I wasn't an official member of the Rabbits A.C., but I did play on their intramural football team in 1979 and 1980 I believe.
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Any y'all 'member da walkin' tunnel under Wisconsin Ave. at 13th St., hey?
It had a distinct smell to it.