Inside Marquette Basketball 11.2.22

[Dr. Blackheart]

All Shaka, all the time.

https://youtu.be/XrslQO-bchM

[Shooter McGavin]

Shaka really seems like a genuinely good person.  Very excited to see him coach the team this year and for many years to come.  Can’t help but root for a guy like him.  We’re lucky to have him. 

[Goose]

Shooter

As you know, I am a big fan of Shaka as a coach. That said, I am even a bigger fan as a person. MU may not win another NC, but Shaka will leave MU in a better place than it was the day he arrived. He is the real deal as a person and still betting his coaching chops match up.

[Lennys Tap]

Shooter and Goose

+1

[JakeBarnes]

Shooter

As you know, I am a big fan of Shaka as a coach. That said, I am even a bigger fan as a person. MU may not win another NC, but Shaka will leave MU in a better place than it was the day he arrived. He is the real deal as a person and still betting his coaching chops match up.

100%

[rocket surgeon]

Shooter

As you know, I am a big fan of Shaka as a coach. That said, I am even a bigger fan as a person. MU may not win another NC, but Shaka will leave MU in a better place than it was the day he arrived. He is the real deal as a person and still betting his coaching chops match up.

Proud to align my self with the gooser  great guy to sit back and listen to

[GoldenEagles03]

The Freshman segment was cool.

"Sean Jones is 1 muscle" per Shaka. Fast, solid, and earned a spot in the rotation. Maybe the most unique player since Dominic James.

Said Ben Gold has the most potential of maybe anyone on the roster, but he's the only one who has to make the Freshman adjustment AND the international adjustment.

Thought his comments on Chase Ross were very interesting. "He's a blend guy." Some guys need certain guys on the court with them to bring out their best, but Chase Ross blends with any group. He guards at an elite level and has elite athleticism.

[Goose]

Golden

My surprise guy for the year is Chase. I think he might get a few more minutes than people expect.

[GoldenEagles03]

Golden

My surprise guy for the year is Chase. I think he might get a few more minutes than people expect.

Agreed. His body is advanced for a Freshman and when you can defend and move at a fast pace there's always a spot.  A perfect fit to spell Stevie or Kam to get fresh legs in the game and not lose too much production.

[tower912]

I am fired up.    I always want a team to go 10 deep and be interchangeable.    Maybe, just maybe, this is the year for that.   There are still going to be flat spots as this team is still ridiculously young.  And, from time to time, MU is going to get beat up down low.    Accept that.    I want to see Shaka use his depth, speed up the game, take advantage of team speed and versatility to really pressure opponents.     The last thing I want to see is a pack-line style defense and a Wisconsin style offense.   Use the team's advantages to attack. 

[wadesworld]

If your top 10 players are all pretty close in ability, you probably don’t have anybody with the talent you need to win a conference title and make a deep Tourney run. Unless you’re Kentucky when they were bringing in classes full of only 5 stars. There’s a reason teams like Villanova go 7 deep and win national titles. They have their stars who play 30-35 minutes, their glue guys who play 25 minutes, and the rest play a role for 5-10. I’m a fan of having studs you can’t take off the court.

Kansas won last year’s title playing 6 guys 30 minutes, one guy 12 minutes, and the rest under 10. Baylor won the national title playing 5 guys over 20 minutes, 3 guys between 10-20 minutes, and the rest under 10 minutes. Virginia won a national title playing 6 guys over 20 minutes, one guy over 15 minutes, and the rest under 10 minutes. Nova has won 2 national titles playing 7 guys. Carolina won a national title playing 6 guys over 20 minutes, 2 guys 14-20 minutes, and the rest under 10 minutes.

[PGsHeroes32]

If your top 10 players are all pretty close in ability, you probably don’t have anybody with the talent you need to win a conference title and make a deep Tourney run. Unless you’re Kentucky when they were bringing in classes full of only 5 stars. There’s a reason teams like Villanova go 7 deep and win national titles. They have their stars who play 30-35 minutes, their glue guys who play 25 minutes, and the rest play a role for 5-10. I’m a fan of having studs you can’t take off the court.

Kansas won last year’s title playing 6 guys 30 minutes, one guy 12 minutes, and the rest under 10. Baylor won the national title playing 5 guys over 20 minutes, 3 guys between 10-20 minutes, and the rest under 10 minutes. Virginia won a national title playing 6 guys over 20 minutes, one guy over 15 minutes, and the rest under 10 minutes. Nova has won 2 national titles playing 7 guys. Carolina won a national title playing 6 guys over 20 minutes, 2 guys 14-20 minutes, and the rest under 10 minutes.

We arent winning the national title this year so this is a moot point for this year.

If 10 guys are good enough to play and give us the best chance finally win a tournament game. Ill trust Shaka. Our roster isnt Nova or Kansas so odd comp

[panda]

If your top 10 players are all pretty close in ability, you probably don’t have anybody with the talent you need to win a conference title and make a deep Tourney run. Unless you’re Kentucky when they were bringing in classes full of only 5 stars. There’s a reason teams like Villanova go 7 deep and win national titles. They have their stars who play 30-35 minutes, their glue guys who play 25 minutes, and the rest play a role for 5-10. I’m a fan of having studs you can’t take off the court.

Kansas won last year’s title playing 6 guys 30 minutes, one guy 12 minutes, and the rest under 10. Baylor won the national title playing 5 guys over 20 minutes, 3 guys between 10-20 minutes, and the rest under 10 minutes. Virginia won a national title playing 6 guys over 20 minutes, one guy over 15 minutes, and the rest under 10 minutes. Nova has won 2 national titles playing 7 guys. Carolina won a national title playing 6 guys over 20 minutes, 2 guys 14-20 minutes, and the rest under 10 minutes.

This - we need guys to separate themselves from the pack and earn big minutes. Unless we’re playing extreme high intensity full court tempo type hoops, 7-8 man rotation is ideal.

[wadesworld]

We arent winning the national title this year so this is a moot point for this year.

If 10 guys are good enough to play and give us the best chance finally win a tournament game. Ill trust Shaka. Our roster isnt Nova or Kansas so odd comp

Like I said, I want go to guys to step up. If nobody is stepping up, then we’re in trouble. I want players who you need on the court for max minutes.

[Newsdreams]

I am fired up.    I always want a team to go 10 deep and be interchangeable.    Maybe, just maybe, this is the year for that.   There are still going to be flat spots as this team is still ridiculously young.  And, from time to time, MU is going to get beat up down low.    Accept that.    I want to see Shaka use his depth, speed up the game, take advantage of team speed and versatility to really pressure opponents.     The last thing I want to see is a pack-line style defense and a Wisconsin style offense.   Use the team's advantages to attack.

Will we ever get old....

[Newsdreams]

Is this going to become the Mope About or Players thread?

[GoldenEagles03]

If your top 10 players are all pretty close in ability, you probably don’t have anybody with the talent you need to win a conference title and make a deep Tourney run. Unless you’re Kentucky when they were bringing in classes full of only 5 stars. There’s a reason teams like Villanova go 7 deep and win national titles. They have their stars who play 30-35 minutes, their glue guys who play 25 minutes, and the rest play a role for 5-10. I’m a fan of having studs you can’t take off the court.

Kansas won last year’s title playing 6 guys 30 minutes, one guy 12 minutes, and the rest under 10. Baylor won the national title playing 5 guys over 20 minutes, 3 guys between 10-20 minutes, and the rest under 10 minutes. Virginia won a national title playing 6 guys over 20 minutes, one guy over 15 minutes, and the rest under 10 minutes. Nova has won 2 national titles playing 7 guys. Carolina won a national title playing 6 guys over 20 minutes, 2 guys 14-20 minutes, and the rest under 10 minutes.

Try telling that to St. Peter's, VCU, George Mason, and every other team that "isn't supposed to advance".

Keep the same core and grow together and good things are going to happen. Especially with how rare that is in college hoops these days.

Shaka absolutely is attacking this the right way.

[tower912]

Taking advantage of team depth, speed, athleticism is how this team will win.    Failing to do so means they probably will have a bad season.    Allowing an opponent to set up comfortably lets them throw the ball into the low post.    Nobody wants that.   

[wadesworld]

Try telling that to St. Peter's, VCU, George Mason, and every other team that "isn't supposed to advance".

Keep the same core and grow together and good things are going to happen. Especially with how rare that is in college hoops these days.

Shaka absolutely is attacking this the right way.

The year they went to the Final Four VCU played 5 guys over 25 minutes and 3 guys between 10-15 minutes. The rest under 10.

The year George Mason went to the Final Four they played 5 guys over 30 minutes, one guy 21 minutes, and one guy 11 minutes.

St. Peter’s is the exception. 8 guys over 15 minutes and one other over 10.

Teams just don’t have 10 man rotations. Nor should they. I don’t expect Gold, Keeyan, or Ellis to play many minutes at all. I don’t expect Chase to play more than about 10. We just don’t have that many players. We aren’t going to have a 10 man rotation.

In meaningful games, Kolek, OMax, and Oso are all going to play close to 30 minutes per game. That leaves 110 minutes for the other 9 players. Add 25 for Kam. That leaves 85 for 8 players. Wrightsil, Joplin, Sean Jones, and Stevie will take those up. I’d expect something like:

Oso 30
OMax 30
Kolek 30
Kam 25
Joplin 22
Sean Jones 22
Stevie 17
Wrightsil 15

9 minutes split between the other 3 healthy guys.

[Elonsmusk]

Let's sort this out by thinking through possible minutes played scenarios by position:

5 - Oso = 33/game - Itjere = 7/game
4 - Omax = 30/game = Wrightsill/Jop/Gold make up the other 10 minutes
3 - Joplin 20/Wrightsill 10/Mitchell 5
2 - Kam 28/Kolek 10/Mitchell 5
1 - Kolek 15, Jones 20/Mitchell 5

The wildcard to me is where does Chase Ross get minutes?  I'm playing Kolek only 25 due to him being able to play at his optimum level conditioning-wise.  From all reports it sounds like Sean Jones is an immediate and potential impact contributor, so I'm projecting 20 minutes/game for him come conference play.

I feel some fans aren't realizing how talented our roster is, and that we can get valuable contributions from probably every player on the roster.  It certainly will be fun to see how the season and minutes play out. 

[brewcity77]

You can certainly win games and make NCAA runs with deep rotations. But those runs are generally going to be capped at the second weekend. The best teams, the Final Four and title winning teams, are the ones that figure out their 6-8 best players and maximize them. I think wades rotation looks about right, and it should shorten once you get to March.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I also think a lot of coaches will say they want deep rotations at the beginning of the year. But they know back in their mind that it will pan out differently due to players emerging and/or injuries.

[jfp61]

Guessing MPG

OMax 30
Kolek 29
Oso 29
Kam 28
Stevie 23
Joplin 19 (some games with 30+ some games with like 5)
Sean Jones 16
Wrightsil 14
Keeyan, Gold, Ross 4 each.

[PointWarrior]

Lot’s of mopes on this board

Is this going to become the Mope About or Players thread?

[Daniel]

If a player doesn’t expect to play much then then do they are happy.  If they don’t they expected it.   But when you have a lot of players who expect to play and don’t then you have some turnover.   I think we have players who expect to play.   If I’m Gold, far far from home and I don’t play after my experience inc Australia, then I’m thinking hmmm . Same with others.  That is the issue.  We do have a pretty good group of players.  I’m hoping Gold surprises us all…..

[wadesworld]

If a player doesn’t expect to play much then then do they are happy.  If they don’t they expected it.   But when you have a lot of players who expect to play and don’t then you have some turnover.   I think we have players who expect to play.   If I’m Gold, far far from home and I don’t play after my experience inc Australia, then I’m thinking hmmm . Same with others.  That is the issue.  We do have a pretty good group of players.  I’m hoping Gold surprises us all…..

I have faith that Shaka has been setting the expectations for these players since well before they arrived on Marquette's campus.  Things don't always go as planned so of course some of the expectations will change, but I don't see Shaka as a guy who sells kids a bill of goods.  And of course some kids may think they're okay with what Shaka is telling them and then when they actually arrive and are going through it they decide it's not for them.  There's going to be turnover.  The question is how much.

[mileskishnish72]

The year they went to the Final Four VCU played 5 guys over 25 minutes and 3 guys between 10-15 minutes. The rest under 10.

The year George Mason went to the Final Four they played 5 guys over 30 minutes, one guy 21 minutes, and one guy 11 minutes.

St. Peter’s is the exception. 8 guys over 15 minutes and one other over 10.

Teams just don’t have 10 man rotations. Nor should they. I don’t expect Gold, Keeyan, or Ellis to play many minutes at all. I don’t expect Chase to play more than about 10. We just don’t have that many players. We aren’t going to have a 10 man rotation.

In meaningful games, Kolek, OMax, and Oso are all going to play close to 30 minutes per game. That leaves 110 minutes for the other 9 players. Add 25 for Kam. That leaves 85 for 8 players. Wrightsil, Joplin, Sean Jones, and Stevie will take those up. I’d expect something like:

Oso 30
OMax 30
Kolek 30
Kam 25
Joplin 22
Sean Jones 22
Stevie 17
Wrightsil 15

9 minutes split between the other 3 healthy guys.

I'm guessing Stevie gets more play. The emphasis is on guessing.

[BCHoopster]

Wait till next year when they have 13 kids that will want to play.  There will be one or two kids that will transfer, the system is set up for that.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Wait till next year when they have 13 kids that will want to play.  There will be one or two kids that will transfer, the system is set up for that.

Which would be fine.

[MU82]

I also think a lot of coaches will say they want deep rotations at the beginning of the year. But they know back in their mind that it will pan out differently due to players emerging and/or injuries.

Exactly.

I know this is a ridiculous notion, but I’ll throw it out there anyway:

We’ll see!

[GoldenEagles03]

The year they went to the Final Four VCU played 5 guys over 25 minutes and 3 guys between 10-15 minutes. The rest under 10.

The year George Mason went to the Final Four they played 5 guys over 30 minutes, one guy 21 minutes, and one guy 11 minutes.

St. Peter’s is the exception. 8 guys over 15 minutes and one other over 10.

Teams just don’t have 10 man rotations. Nor should they. I don’t expect Gold, Keeyan, or Ellis to play many minutes at all. I don’t expect Chase to play more than about 10. We just don’t have that many players. We aren’t going to have a 10 man rotation.

In meaningful games, Kolek, OMax, and Oso are all going to play close to 30 minutes per game. That leaves 110 minutes for the other 9 players. Add 25 for Kam. That leaves 85 for 8 players. Wrightsil, Joplin, Sean Jones, and Stevie will take those up. I’d expect something like:

Oso 30
OMax 30
Kolek 30
Kam 25
Joplin 22
Sean Jones 22
Stevie 17
Wrightsil 15

9 minutes split between the other 3 healthy guys.

I was mostly referring to this part when talking about those teams:

"If your top 10 players are all pretty close in ability, you probably don’t have anybody with the talent you need to win a conference title and make a deep Tourney run."

[wadesworld]

I was mostly referring to this part when talking about those teams:

"If your top 10 players are all pretty close in ability, you probably don’t have anybody with the talent you need to win a conference title and make a deep Tourney run."

Correct. And their top 10 players weren’t pretty close in ability, given that they were playing 7 man rotations.

[GoldenEagles03]

Correct. And their top 10 players weren’t pretty close in ability, given that they were playing 7 man rotations.

Disagree. Plenty of rosters have 10 guys that are close in ability. Most rosters don't play 10 deep.

Effort and production supersedes ability and that's what a rotation is built on.

[Newsdreams]

And here we go with the mopes' roster rotation discussion. Can't wait until tomorrow so we can actually mope about the game.

[tower912]

It is fascinating.   What is 'in the rotation'?  Were Joplin and Mitchell in the rotation last year?    How about Cain as a sophomore under Wojo or Burton/JaJuan as freshmen under Buzz?
  I fully expect 10 players to play nearly every game this year, barring injuries.   Some, like Joplin last year, may frequently only see 5 minutes a game.

I also get that the rotations tend to tighten as the season goes on.   

I think this team, playing this style, should play 10 for as long as possible.

[wadesworld]

Disagree. Plenty of rosters have 10 guys that are close in ability. Most rosters don't play 10 deep.

Effort and production supersedes ability and that's what a rotation is built on.

Two of the three teams you used as an example of teams being able to make big Tourney runs with a deep rotation had extremely shallow rotations.

You can be talented and play with effort. And trust me, no matter how hard working the Matt Heldts of the world are, they aren’t going to be playing over even the Luke Fischers of the world.

[tower912]

https://gomarquette.com/sports/mens-basketball/stats/2021-22?path=mbball

Again, define 'in the rotation'.    Clearly MU had a 10 man rotation last year.    10 players played in every game for which they were healthy or not suspended.     Joplin averaged 7+ minutes per game.   The other 9 more than 10 mpg.

I expect similar things this year.     

Clicking over to the individual stats, fun fact.    Ellis shot more free throws than Kam last year.   

[Dr. Blackheart]

Two of the three teams you used as an example of teams being able to make big Tourney runs with a deep rotation had extremely shallow rotations.

You can be talented and play with effort. And trust me, no matter how hard working the Matt Heldts of the world are, they aren’t going to be playing over even the Luke Fischers of the world.

My rule is you need three NBA talents on the roster to make deep runs, even borderline or cups of coffee guys.  Jay, Bo, Butch, Toone in 1977.  Wade, Diener, Novak.  Elite 8 year was Jamil, Vander and Juan with Lockett and Gardner strong internationally. Buzz’s Sweet 16 teams also loaded with Jae, Jimmy, Bucks, DJO. KO’s Sweet 16: Mac, McCaskill, Tony Smith with strong international pros. Al and Hank’s other strong teams had the same formula.

While I can see there are some potential candidates for the NBA on this roster, I think we are a year or two away from knowing. Shaka has stressed fan patience at the beginning of this year, and I am excited to see how it plays out as that talents develops. Remembering, I am in the COLE Camp (start slow on wins, finish stronger than last season, look to 23-24).

Who are the NBA talents on this roster?

[Newsdreams]

My rule is you need three NBA talents on the roster to make deep runs, even borderline or cups of coffee guys.  Jay, Bo, Butch, Toone in 1977.  Wade, Diener, Novak.  Elite 8 year was Jamil, Vander and Juan with Lockett and Gardner strong internationally. Buzz’s Sweet 16 teams also loaded with Jae, Jimmy, Bucks, DJO. KO’s Sweet 16: Mac, McCaskill, Tony Smith with strong international pros. Al and Hank’s other strong teams had the same formula.

While I can see there are some potential candidates for the NBA on this roster, I think we are a year or two away from knowing. Shaka has stressed fan patience at the beginning of this year, and I am excited to see how it plays out as that talents develops. Remembering, I am in the COLE Camp (start slow on wins, finish stronger than last season, look to 23-24).

Who are the NBA talents on this roster?

F patience, championship now!