NFC North Pissing Match

[MU B2002]

V-I-K-I-N-G-S, SKOL VIKINGS, LET'S GO!!!

Nice win delivered by Brett.  Perfectly positioned ball. 

[tower912]

THE STREAK IS OVER!!!!!!    Ya'll better watch out for the Lions now.         OK, not really, but it sure was nice to get one.   

[Moonboots]

Hats off to the old man. Heck of a catch by Lewis on the other end. Still hate the Vikings. Monday should be fun.

Ditto.  I didn't expect much less from Favre over the course of the first half of the season.  Pretty ballsy throw.  Let's see if he can keep up the performance down the stretch after getting roughed up a few times.

[GOMU1104]

Amazing play on both ends, both QB and WR.

However, as I said when he signed...Ziggy/Chilly are going to look like geniuses when Minnesota starts off 3-0, with their weak schedule.  Then the fun will begin...

vs. GB
vs. BAL
@ STL
@ PIT
@ GB

MIN struggled to get to 3-0 against 2 very bad and 1 mediocre team. It will be interesting to see where they stand at their Bye in Week 9.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Amazing play on both ends, both QB and WR.

However, as I said when he signed...Ziggy/Chilly are going to look like geniuses when Minnesota starts off 3-0, with their weak schedule.  Then the fun will begin...

vs. GB
vs. BAL
@ STL
@ PIT
@ GB

MIN struggled to get to 3-0 against 2 very bad and 1 mediocre team. It will be interesting to see where they stand at their Bye in Week 9.

I agree with you, they haven't been terribly impressive yet.
 
But, I also have a strong feeling that some Packer fans taking a "wait and see" approach, and just waiting for a chance to blast Brett.

• "Well, Brett may be 3-0 now, but wait until they play somebody tough."
  
  
• "Well, they might be 9-1 now, but wait until the playoffs, Brett has never been that good in the playoffs."
  
  
  • "Well, they're in the NFC championship now, but Brett lost his last one for the Packers."
    
    
  • "Well, they made the superbowl, but not because of Brett."
  
  
  I'm not calling you out GOMU, because I think you bring up some valid points about the early season schedule. I'm just saying that I think there are people out there just waiting for a chance to blast Favre, regardless of how he actually performs.
  
  I guarantee this thread and Milwaukee sports radio will be much more active after a MN loss than a MN win.
  

[NavinRJohnson]

I'm not calling you out GOMU, because I think you bring up some valid points about the early season schedule. I'm just saying that I think there are people out there just waiting for a chance to blast Favre, regardless of how he actually performs.

I don't necessarily agree with that. Are there a few, yes, maybe, but who cares about them? They're idiots.  I think if you look back at this thread, they typical sentiment was that Favre would start out playing pretty well, but probably fall off as the season wears on, much as he did last year. Nothing that has happened thus far should be considered surprising or unexpected by anyone.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I don't necessarily agree with that. Are there a few, yes, maybe, but who cares about them? They're idiots.  I think if you look back at this thread, they typical sentiment was that Favre would start out playing pretty well, but probably fall off as the season wears on, much as he did last year. Nothing that has happened thus far should be considered surprising or unexpected by anyone.

I agree with you so far. However, in the future I can envision something like:

"Well, we knew he could be good in the regular season, but we all know that "gunslinger Brett" would blow it again in the playoffs"

I have a feeling that people will keep moving up the bar so that there is no way that Brett can be considered a successful QB for the Vikes.

It seems like people are waiting for the other shoe to drop so they can say, "See, I told you so", and that might even come after a superbowl loss. (although I doubt they make it that far)

[NavinRJohnson]

But, if 'gunslinger Brett' is the reason the lose a playoff game, Superbowl, whatever, won't those people pretty much be correct? It is that mentality coupled with his diminishing physical ability that has led people to think this was a bad move for the Vikings.

If they have been saying it all along, its being consistent, not raising the bar. He's been fine so far, but anyone who didn't have them at 3-0 thus far was kidding themselves and their opinions don't mater. Personally, I maintain my position that come Dec/January time frame he will be more liability than asset.

[Jay Bee]

2k2 - you're right in that Favre can't win the world of many Green Bey fans.  Even if we win the Super Bowl, you'll hear "oh it was all Peterson... anyone could have done that".  

I don't think Zigi and Chilly look like masterminds for bringing in an MVP Hall of Fame QB to a team that was lacking in the QB department at this point - we won three games, all of which we were favored to win (much like we were/are favored to win the NFC North [Consensus pick!!]).  Granted, some teams that bl0w have already lost games at home in which they were 10 point favorites, whereas we have one and gotten to play our second string QB in the fourth quarter for two road games... at this point, the Giants and Eagles worry me the most...

The Vikings need improvement on the O-line (i.e. the two positions that I said would be key - C and RT with Sullivan and Loadholt... although those two look like All Pros compared to GB's line)... if things get better there and Berrian figures out how to stop playing like a Bear, we've got this.

Anyone else going to Monday's game?  

[ChicosBailBonds]

How are the Jets doing without Favre? 

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

But, if 'gunslinger Brett' is the reason the lose a playoff game, Superbowl, whatever, won't those people pretty much be correct? It is that mentality coupled with his diminishing physical ability that has led people to think this was a bad move for the Vikings.

If they have been saying it all along, its being consistent, not raising the bar. He's been fine so far, but anyone who didn't have them at 3-0 thus far was kidding themselves and their opinions don't mater. Personally, I maintain my position that come Dec/January time frame he will be more liability than asset.

Well, the fundamental problem with this is that he could lead them to a 16-0 season, and throw 1 game changing pick in the superbowl, and you'll come on here and say "See! See! I KNEW he'd end up messing it up! He's just too old." HAHAHA.

I just can't agree with that, no matter when you started your predictions. Honestly, the Vikings are probably NOT going to win the superbowl, and that's not Favre's fault.

He'll only be A reason the Vikes win or lose, not THE reason. I won't give 1 player all of the credit, nor will I give 1 player all of the blame.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

How are the Jets doing without Favre? 

It's clear that Rex Ryan is the key ingredient there, not Mark Sanchez... although Sanchez looks like a nice player.

Mangini is not off to a good start in Cleveland either.

[ChicosBailBonds]

It's clear that Rex Ryan is the key ingredient there, not Mark Sanchez... although Sanchez looks like a nice player.

Mangini is not off to a good start in Cleveland either.

It seems to me the locker room is a much happier place as well, and that can't be understated enough.

[MU B2002]

If they have been saying it all along, its being consistent, not raising the bar. He's been fine so far, but anyone who didn't have them at 3-0 thus far was kidding themselves and their opinions don't mater. Personally, I maintain my position that come Dec/January time frame he will be more liability than asset.

Personally I had them at 2-1 losing to the 49ers, and I still think my opinion matters, but I was referring to their record against the spread.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

It seems to me the locker room is a much happier place as well, and that can't be understated enough.

Yea, but is that because of Rex or because of that lack of Brett?

I'm not Brett apologist, but I think the jets turnaround on the field and in their culture has much more to do with the loss of mangini and addition of Rex Ryan than it does with the loss of Favre and the addition of Sanchez.

Also, a winning locker room is a happy locker room. Ask the Vikings.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Yea, but is that because of Rex or because of that lack of Brett?

I'm not Brett apologist, but I think the jets turnaround on the field and in their culture has much more to do with the loss of mangini and addition of Rex Ryan than it does with the loss of Favre and the addition of Sanchez.

Also, a winning locker room is a happy locker room. Ask the Vikings.

Based on the comments from the players last year about Brett....well I'll say it's both, but I don't think they are sad to see him go.

You could tell the players felt he was aloof, not willing to do the team building things others were, etc.  That wears on a team.  I'm sure Rex has had a major influence as well, perhaps more so.

[NavinRJohnson]

Well, the fundamental problem with this is that he could lead them to a 16-0 season, and throw 1 game changing pick in the superbowl, and you'll come on here and say "See! See! I KNEW he'd end up messing it up! He's just too old." HAHAHA.

I will? Ok, thanks for telling me.

[MU B2002]

Well, the fundamental problem with this is that he could lead them to a 16-0 season, and throw 1 game changing pick in the superbowl, and you'll come on here and say "See! See! I KNEW he'd end up messing it up! He's just too old." HAHAHA.

I just can't agree with that, no matter when you started your predictions. Honestly, the Vikings are probably NOT going to win the superbowl, and that's not Favre's fault.

He'll only be A reason the Vikes win or lose, not THE reason. I won't give 1 player all of the credit, nor will I give 1 player all of the blame.

Why do you still expect fans of an opposing team, that happens to be the same team said QB used to play for, to compliment the play of Brett Favre.  Did he win the game yesterday?  Yes.  Do GB fans care? No.  Are they waiting for him to fail, so they can laugh and point fingers? Yes. Accept it, and move on.

[Jay Bee]

Based on the comments from the players last year about Brett....well I'll say it's both, but I don't think they are sad to see him go.

You could tell the players felt he was aloof, not willing to do the team building things others were, etc. 

  What are some of these comments you're referring to?  What players said these things?  A bunch of gutless punks with anonymous paraphrased quotes?  
  The biggest issue the Jets had last year is that they had an injured QB playing and an otherwise horrid team.  Their coach and management illegally kept the QB's injury a secret.  CHEATERS!  

MU_B2002 - you think Green Bey fans don't care about Favre yesterday?  You're flippin crazy.  Even JSonline has pictures dedicated to him.  Facebook was lit up with Packers fans crying, "damn it 49ers!".  This isn't a typical situation of 'guy played with a team for a long time, now is elsewhere, so people have moved on'.  That's just not factual.  Many Packer fans care very much about how Favre does this season.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Why do you still expect fans of an opposing team, that happens to be the same team said QB used to play for, to compliment the play of Brett Favre.  Did he win the game yesterday?  Yes.  Do GB fans care? No.  Are they waiting for him to fail, so they can laugh and point fingers? Yes. Accept it, and move on.

That's fine, I can accept it... but it gets old when it's framed up like somebody is trying to be objective.

[MU B2002]

 What are some of these comments you're referring to?  What players said these things?  A bunch of gutless punks with anonymous paraphrased quotes?  
  The biggest issue the Jets had last year is that they had an injured QB playing and an otherwise horrid team.  Their coach and management illegally kept the QB's injury a secret.  CHEATERS!  

MU_B2002 - you think Green Bey fans don't care about Favre yesterday?  You're flippin crazy.  Even JSonline has pictures dedicated to him.  Facebook was lit up with Packers fans crying, "damn it 49ers!".  This isn't a typical situation of 'guy played with a team for a long time, now is elsewhere, so people have moved on'.  That's just not factual.  Many Packer fans care very much about how Favre does this season.

I meant to say "do they care to compliment him?" My error.  They do care, and I am assuming most want him to do badly, especially next monday.  

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I will? Ok, thanks for telling me.

Did I misread your last post?

"But, if 'gunslinger Brett' is the reason the lose a playoff game, Superbowl, whatever, won't those people pretty much be correct? It is that mentality coupled with his diminishing physical ability that has led people to think this was a bad move for the Vikings."

Aren't you talking about yourself? This seems similar to the opinion you have expressed in the past.

[NavinRJohnson]

Aren't you talking about yourself? This seems similar to the opinion you have expressed in the past.

Sure I am.. that's not exactly...he could lead them to a 16-0 season, and throw 1 game changing pick in the superbowl

I am talking about ability...if they go 18-0, obviously the ability is there and I will be wrong. What I have said consistently is that his level of play is likely to get worse as the season goes along. When that happens, I will be happy to say I told you so. If they have a perfect season and lose the Super Bowl, game changing pick or not, my assessment of the situation clearly will have been wrong, even if Brett does make poor decisions, or throws that game changing pick or whatever...which would surprise nobody. In that scenario it won't be because he's old or can't play, it will be because that is what he has always done.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Sure I am.. that's not exactly...he could lead them to a 16-0 season, and throw 1 game changing pick in the superbowl

I am talking about ability...if they go 18-0, obviously the ability is there and I will be wrong. What I have said consistently is that his level of play is likely to get worse as the season goes along. When that happens, I will be happy to say I told you so. If they have a perfect season and lose the Super Bowl, game changing pick or not, my assessment of the situation clearly will have been wrong, even if Brett does make poor decisions, or throws that game changing pick or whatever...which would surprise nobody. In that scenario it won't be because he's old or can't play, it will be because that is what he has always done.

hmm... this is exactly what I was getting at before, and maybe I just need to get over it.

Inevitably, the Vikings are going to lose a game late in the regular season, and probably at some point in the playoffs.

Competition is tougher at the end of the year, and certainly in the playoffs, so the chances that the Vikings lose are increased (as compared with the first 3 or 4 games of the Vikes schedule, where the wins have been pretty easy.)

Now, when the Vikes lose in the playoffs, you will come on here and say "see!" and pretend that you are some sort of great prognosticator and knew that Brett was too old and would breakdown.

The reality is that, the competition is better in the playoffs and the Vikes just might not be that good. It might not be "diminished skills" of #4. It might be that the team just isn't that good, or maybe the defense blows the game, or maybe the gameplan sucks, or maybe it is Favre's fault! (I can admit that).

It just appears to me like you are trying to set yourself up for some sort of big "I told you so" Brett Favre post (which you may have already typed), when in reality 31 of 32 teams will go home losers.

[NavinRJohnson]

Now, when the Vikes lose in the playoffs, you will come on here and say "see!" and pretend that you are some sort of great prognosticator and knew that Brett was too old and would breakdown.


It just appears to me like you are trying to set yourself up for some sort of big "I told you so" Brett Favre post (which you may have already typed), when in reality 31 of 32 teams will go home losers.

Sigh! Getting over it might be a good idea. I'm not trying to set myself up for anything. I suggested before he even signed that it was a bad idea. That they would ultimately be better off without him. That his age, health, conditioning and style of play would lead to poor performances and bad decisions that will cost the Vikings games. Bad decisions not only on the part of Favre, but Childress as well.

Time will of course tell the tale...but if the defense blows a game in the playoffs and I come here to say I told you so, well then that would make me a bit of an idiot wouldn't it? I am not talking about the Vikings losing in the playoffs which is all you seem to want to focus on. I am talking about Childress and Favre working together to put up games with QB Ratings in the 40's or 50's, when they have the best player in football lining up at RB, and those days are coming. They did their best to do it yesterday...46 pass attempts to 27 rushing attempts. If Lewis' foot comes down 1 inch to the left, that is the discussion today, and it would be legitimate.