MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Tugg Speedman on November 29, 2015, 07:49:36 PM
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Is DePaul stops sucking. Not necessarily get outright good, just stop being a mess.
Can anyone make the case that Dave Leito, the new stadium, the administration commitment to basketball or anything else makes you think we might see DePaul with a little number next to their name, or in the tourney ever again? (My definition of stop sucking)
At this point I think Northwestern is the better program in the Chicago area.
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Georgetown or St. John's winning a National Championship is the best thing that could happen to the Big East.
The top 100 best things that could happen to the Big East do not include DePaul.
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Is DePaul stops sucking. Not necessarily get outright good, just stop being a mess.
Can anyone make the case that Dave Leito, the new stadium, the administration commitment to basketball or anything else makes you think we might see DePaul with a little number next to their name, or in the tourney ever again? (My definition of stop sucking)
At this point I think Northwestern is the better program in the Chicago area.
Yeah, they suck. But they still capped us last year so we better pipe down until we get both games again.
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When DePaul, specifically, Jean Lenti-Ponsetto, introduced Dave Leitao in April, three things caught my eye. 1.) She emphatically stated that their new coach "knew" the Big East and came from a Big East background (Leitao never coached in the Big East). 2.) DePaul paid money to a search firm to search for and rehire its former head coach 3.) She listed the three primary purposes of DePaul Athletics - and winning (or any reference to being competitive) was not one of them.
The consistent showing of ineptitude and mismanagement of the DePaul athletics program is staggering. The have not had any fans at mens games in nearly a decade. Students have no interest in basketball, mostly because all the games are nearly an hour away from campus. Their new stadium, which is also nowhere near campus, is not centrally located near public transportation - so students will continue not going to games. Forget the fact that they have not come close to reaching an NCAA tournament during their tenure in the Big East, they haven't even had a .500 record while in the Big East.
Bottom line, in the 10 years since their invitation into the Big East, DePaul's mens basketball program has contributed absolutely nothing to the betterment of the conference. That is a serious problem that should demand the intervention of the Big East Presidents and Commissioner Val Ackermann. Non-competitiveness is unacceptable in a conference designed to strive for elite college basketball. If DePaul doesn't want to be a part of that, they can be a part of the A-10.
End of rant.
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Any Big East team winning a National Championship is the best thing that could happen to the Big East.
Fixed.
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When DePaul, specifically, Jean Lenti-Ponsetto, introduced Dave Leitao in April, three things caught my eye. 1.) She emphatically stated that their new coach "knew" the Big East and came from a Big East background (Leitao never coached in the Big East). 2.) DePaul paid money to a search firm to search for and rehire its former head coach 3.) She listed the three primary purposes of DePaul Athletics - and winning (or any reference to being competitive) was not one of them.
The consistent showing of ineptitude and mismanagement of the DePaul athletics program is staggering. The have not had any fans at mens games in nearly a decade. Students have no interest in basketball, mostly because all the games are nearly an hour away from campus. Their new stadium, which is also nowhere near campus, is not centrally located near public transportation - so students will continue not going to games. Forget the fact that they have not come close to reaching an NCAA tournament during their tenure in the Big East, they haven't even had a .500 record while in the Big East.
Bottom line, in the 10 years since their invitation into the Big East, DePaul's mens basketball program has contributed absolutely nothing to the betterment of the conference. That is a serious problem that should demand the intervention of the Big East Presidents and Commissioner Val Ackermann. Non-competitiveness is unacceptable in a conference designed to strive for elite college basketball. If DePaul doesn't want to be a part of that, they can be a part of the A-10.
End of rant.
don't like Depaul but in all fairness in 2007 they were close to an NCAA tournament birth.
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Is DePaul stops sucking. Not necessarily get outright good, just stop being a mess.
Can anyone make the case that Dave Leito, the new stadium, the administration commitment to basketball or anything else makes you think we might see DePaul with a little number next to their name, or in the tourney ever again? (My definition of stop sucking)
At this point I think Northwestern is the better program in the Chicago area.
Northwestern may be a better team then Marquette currently. But yea, Depaul is bad and JLP has no clue how to run a money maker sport.
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When DePaul, specifically, Jean Lenti-Ponsetto, introduced Dave Leitao in April, three things caught my eye. 1.) She emphatically stated that their new coach "knew" the Big East and came from a Big East background (Leitao never coached in the Big East). 2.) DePaul paid money to a search firm to search for and rehire its former head coach 3.) She listed the three primary purposes of DePaul Athletics - and winning (or any reference to being competitive) was not one of them.
The consistent showing of ineptitude and mismanagement of the DePaul athletics program is staggering. The have not had any fans at mens games in nearly a decade. Students have no interest in basketball, mostly because all the games are nearly an hour away from campus. Their new stadium, which is also nowhere near campus, is not centrally located near public transportation - so students will continue not going to games. Forget the fact that they have not come close to reaching an NCAA tournament during their tenure in the Big East, they haven't even had a .500 record while in the Big East.
Bottom line, in the 10 years since their invitation into the Big East, DePaul's mens basketball program has contributed absolutely nothing to the betterment of the conference. That is a serious problem that should demand the intervention of the Big East Presidents and Commissioner Val Ackermann. Non-competitiveness is unacceptable in a conference designed to strive for elite college basketball. If DePaul doesn't want to be a part of that, they can be a part of the A-10.
End of rant.
Isn't the new arena going to be like two blocks from a Green Line L stop? They can take the train from Fullerton, switch downtown, and get to the arena in like 20 minutes.
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That is a serious problem that should demand the intervention of Commissioner Val Ackermann.
Does DePaul need new office furniture?
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The best thing that would happen to the Big East -- or to college basketball in general -- would be Marquette winning a national title. Or three.
Duh.
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Isn't the new arena going to be like two blocks from a Green Line L stop? They can take the train from Fullerton, switch downtown, and get to the arena in like 20 minutes.
Maybe so but Georgetown is three subway stops from the Verizon center and even when they are ranked in the top 10 they cannot get kids to go to the game (unless it's Saturday afternoon against Syracuse or another huge marquee matching against top teams). That why they play some on campus.
Point is students will see the new stadium as just as difficult as Rosemont.
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Or taking in Dayton.
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don't like Depaul but in all fairness in 2007 they were close to an NCAA tournament birth.
Which means they have never finished above .500 or had a tourney invite since joining the big East.
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When DePaul, specifically, Jean Lenti-Ponsetto, introduced Dave Leitao in April, three things caught my eye. 1.) She emphatically stated that their new coach "knew" the Big East and came from a Big East background (Leitao never coached in the Big East). 2.) DePaul paid money to a search firm to search for and rehire its former head coach 3.) She listed the three primary purposes of DePaul Athletics - and winning (or any reference to being competitive) was not one of them.
The consistent showing of ineptitude and mismanagement of the DePaul athletics program is staggering. The have not had any fans at mens games in nearly a decade. Students have no interest in basketball, mostly because all the games are nearly an hour away from campus. Their new stadium, which is also nowhere near campus, is not centrally located near public transportation - so students will continue not going to games. Forget the fact that they have not come close to reaching an NCAA tournament during their tenure in the Big East, they haven't even had a .500 record while in the Big East.
Bottom line, in the 10 years since their invitation into the Big East, DePaul's mens basketball program has contributed absolutely nothing to the betterment of the conference. That is a serious problem that should demand the intervention of the Big East Presidents and Commissioner Val Ackermann. Non-competitiveness is unacceptable in a conference designed to strive for elite college basketball. If DePaul doesn't want to be a part of that, they can be a part of the A-10.
End of rant.
Good rant!
What motivated me to start this thread was the conference record thread and how we passed the Big Ten as the third best conference. This is all the more impressive when you consider how DePaul drags everyone down with their losses.
And you're correct, this is a basketball conference and they are terrible. The 9 other teams in the conference have all been to the tourney in the last 3 years. Half have made the S16 or better in the last few years.
Yes someone has to finish last every year. But does it have to be the same team every year?
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Is DePaul stops sucking. Not necessarily get outright good, just stop being a mess.
Can anyone make the case that Dave Leito, the new stadium, the administration commitment to basketball or anything else makes you think we might see DePaul with a little number next to their name, or in the tourney ever again? (My definition of stop sucking)
At this point I think Northwestern is the better program in the Chicago area.
It would be helpful if DePaul stop sucking, but reality is that is not likely to happen. The best they can hope for is a winning season or two. If they really wanted to have a good program, they would have put some money in expanding their on campus facility in some way to be a little bit larger, play all their games there in a loud environment which would make it very difficult for the opponents. Maybe they are too landlocked to do that. Also need to recruit Chicago better. No reason they can't find four quality players a year. The AD is incompetent as far as D1 mens basketball goes. Seems like she puts her emphasis on the rest of the athletic program.
Big East needs to focus on the top programs getting to final four and eventually winning a national championship. I think the conference is making good progress toward that.
In the meantime DePaul sucking effectively gives us another home game.
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I'm a grad school alum of DePaul. I have little hope the new coach will get DePaul to even "ok" status.
JLP is both the problem and the solution (by removing her as AD) to getting DePaul back on track.
I actually started a new thing after the new coach was announced. Every time DePaul calls for donations (which is like once a month) I mention that I won't donate until JLP is gone. Hopefully someone gets the message.
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Maybe so but Georgetown is three subway stops from the Verizon center and even when they are ranked in the top 10 they cannot get kids to go to the game (unless it's Saturday afternoon against Syracuse or another huge marquee matching against top teams). That why they play some on campus.
Point is students will see the new stadium as just as difficult as Rosemont.
About this. Georgetown doesn't even have a metro stop. Even if they did, three stops is NOTHING. They also never play games on campus. That is only Villanova and St. John's.
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Maybe so but Georgetown is three subway stops from the Verizon center and even when they are ranked in the top 10 they cannot get kids to go to the game (unless it's Saturday afternoon against Syracuse or another huge marquee matching against top teams). That why they play some on campus.
Georgetown has their own issues, but this just isn't true. There aren't any metro stops near Georgetown. They offer a shuttle bus from campus to the Dupont Circle stop for games, which is then 3 stops away from the Verizon Center, but that shuttle is still a huge hassle.
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That is a serious problem that should demand the intervention of the Big East Presidents and Commissioner Val Ackermann.
Does DePaul need new office furniture?
Well, clearly he can't mean DePaul's website.
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Does DePaul need new office furniture?
DePaul salvages all their used pieces.
http://store.universitysalvage.com
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I'm a grad school alum of DePaul. I have little hope the new coach will get DePaul to even "ok" status.
JLP is both the problem and the solution (by removing her as AD) to getting DePaul back on track.
I actually started a new thing after the new coach was announced. Every time DePaul calls for donations (which is like once a month) I mention that I won't donate until JLP is gone. Hopefully someone gets the message.
Nice job! Keep it up!
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About this. Georgetown doesn't even have a metro stop. Even if they did, three stops is NOTHING. They also never play games on campus. That is only Villanova and St. John's.
Never isn't really true. 2014 played at NIT game on campus. But yes, normally they don't play on campus.
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When DePaul, specifically, Jean Lenti-Ponsetto, introduced Dave Leitao in April, three things caught my eye. 1.) She emphatically stated that their new coach "knew" the Big East and came from a Big East background (Leitao never coached in the Big East). 2.) DePaul paid money to a search firm to search for and rehire its former head coach 3.) She listed the three primary purposes of DePaul Athletics - and winning (or any reference to being competitive) was not one of them.
The consistent showing of ineptitude and mismanagement of the DePaul athletics program is staggering. The have not had any fans at mens games in nearly a decade. Students have no interest in basketball, mostly because all the games are nearly an hour away from campus. Their new stadium, which is also nowhere near campus, is not centrally located near public transportation - so students will continue not going to games. Forget the fact that they have not come close to reaching an NCAA tournament during their tenure in the Big East, they haven't even had a .500 record while in the Big East.
Bottom line, in the 10 years since their invitation into the Big East, DePaul's mens basketball program has contributed absolutely nothing to the betterment of the conference. That is a serious problem that should demand the intervention of the Big East Presidents and Commissioner Val Ackermann. Non-competitiveness is unacceptable in a conference designed to strive for elite college basketball. If DePaul doesn't want to be a part of that, they can be a part of the A-10.
End of rant.
Leitao was an assistant coach in the Big East for 14 or 15 years with UCONN. I suspect that's what she meant when she says he knows the Big East.
Can't tell you why they landed on him with the search firm, but if I had to guess it was because they soon realized they weren't going to get anyone of high quality and did not want to keep a search going on for an extended period of time showcasing to everyone that no one wanted it.
I'd be curious to know what the three things were that she listed about DePaul athletics.
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Which means they have never finished above .500 or had a tourney invite since joining the big East.
Yes they finished 9-7 that year 20-14 overall which is above .500 by my count. I know they haven't had a tourney invite but the rant said that they hadn't come close to a tourney invite... they were close probably one game away close. Between this and your GTown post you aren't looking great on this thread.
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Yes they finished 9-7 that year 20-14 overall which is above .500 by my count. I know they haven't had a tourney invite but the rant said that they hadn't come close to a tourney invite... they were close probably one game away close. Between this and your GTown post you aren't looking great on this thread.
Looking good about what! You're the one picking apart everyone's comments because you want to suggest DePaul is decent? Good luck with that?
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Looking good about what! You're the one picking apart everyone's comments because you want to suggest DePaul is decent? Good luck with that?
You haven't been exactly good with posting "facts" on this topic. I'm not suggesting they're good I'm correcting a common misperception that Depaul has been unbelievably terrible every year. They had a decent year, nothing wrong with fact checking.
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You haven't been exactly good with posting "facts" on this topic. I'm not suggesting they're good I'm correcting a common misperception that Depaul has been unbelievably terrible every year. They had a decent year, nothing wrong with fact checking.
It does not change the fact that they suck and drag down the conference? (FYI, it was golden that said it, I agreed with him?). And who cares how many metro stops Georgetown is from the Verizon Center, the fact is correct they have a hard time attracting kids to a top 10 program because they play too far away from campus.
If you want to correct facts and show how anal you are go right ahead. But it would help if you actually corrected facts that meant something. Because what you correct it does not change any of the conversation here.
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It does not change the fact that they suck and drag down the conference? (FYI, it was golden that said it, I agreed with him?). And who cares how many metro stops Georgetown is from the Verizon Center, the fact is correct they have a hard time attracting kids to a top 10 program because they play too far away from campus.
If you want to correct facts and show how anal you are go right ahead. But it would help if you actually corrected facts that meant something. Because what you correct it does not change any of the conversation here.
Ok I will. Thank you for your permission.
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Georgetown has their own issues, but this just isn't true. There aren't any metro stops near Georgetown. They offer a shuttle bus from campus to the Dupont Circle stop for games, which is then 3 stops away from the Verizon Center, but that shuttle is still a huge hassle.
And I am sure L stops are too, but what choice does DePaul have? It's not as though they can build an arena on or near campus given the cost. Students at DePaul think nothing of taking the L downtown. Really all they would be doing is making one transfer and getting on another train for five minutes. Very simple.
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Never isn't really true. 2014 played at NIT game on campus. But yes, normally they don't play on campus.
Dammit, that's right.
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There is always going to be a bad team in the conference. Whether it is the same team every year or a different team every year probably does not matter much. MU's bid depends more on how MU plays than how good or bad DePaul is.
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And I am sure L stops are too, but what choice does DePaul have? It's not as though they can build an arena on or near campus given the cost. Students at DePaul think nothing of taking the L downtown. Really all they would be doing is making one transfer and getting on another train for five minutes. Very simple.
Business students at Depaul take their classes downtown starting sophomore year anyways, so they are already accustomed to getting on the Red Line and heading downtown, Cermak is 3 extra stops farther or approximately 3-5 min of extra train time. Then its a 5-10 min walk. If they switch to the Green line, that walk becomes less than 5 min from the Cermak Green Line stop. The difference between GT and Depaul is that the kids I knew that went to GT lived on or very near campus, kids at Depaul are flung all over the city once they get past freshman year. They are accustomed to taking public transportation to get places not expecting a 2 min walk.
Depaul has tons of problems within their athletic department and program (like when Dave Leitao sat behind me in coach in a middle seat on a flight from Cincy to Chicago while recruiting), but the new location being inconvenient for students is not one of them. Its like if Marquette was going to play near McKinley Marina but yet the BC was located in Pewaukee and saying they were both equally annoying for students.
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The new DePaul arena will be 10.25 miles away from Lincoln Park DePaul campus. In retrospect, Allstate Arena is over 15 miles away from the Lincoln Park campus. By bus to the new arena, transportation will be an hour and fifteen minutes. By train (the El), transportation is 41 minutes. A bus is suggested once you get off at Cermak- Chinatown (the #21 Cermak/Clark bus) because the arena is close to a mile away from the train station. If you a fortunate enough to own a car in college, it is only a 25 minute drive. No matter how you slice it, this doesn't improve the ability for students to see their team play.
It is worth mentioning that DePaul built an on-campus arena for it's Women's Basketball team.
From a Marquette perspective, the new Bucks arena (and the current Bradley Center) is just a mile from campus. St. Johns campus is just three miles away from Madison Square Garden. The Pavillion at Villanova is a quarter-mile from campus. The list goes on and on...
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The new DePaul arena will be 10.25 miles away from Lincoln Park DePaul campus. In retrospect, Allstate Arena is over 15 miles away from the Lincoln Park campus. By bus to the new arena, transportation will be an hour and fifteen minutes. By train (the El), transportation is 41 minutes. A bus is suggested once you get off at Cermak- Chinatown (the #21 Cermak/Clark bus) because the arena is close to a mile away from the train station. If you a fortunate enough to own a car in college, it is only a 25 minute drive. No matter how you slice it, this doesn't improve the ability for students to see their team play.
It is worth mentioning that DePaul built an on-campus arena for it's Women's Basketball team.
From a Marquette perspective, the new Bucks arena (and the current Bradley Center) is just a mile from campus. St. Johns campus is just three miles away from Madison Square Garden. The Pavillion at Villanova is a quarter-mile from campus. The list goes on and on...
I think you are wrong about the L times to McCormick place from DePaul. Looking at schedules, I got about 25 minutes. Plus the green line is now running right to McCormick Place. I don't think there is a mile walk unless they take the red line straight through.
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This was DePauil's answer.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-04-16/business/chi-depaul-in-early-talks-with-a-finkl-for-arena-site-20130416_1_mccormick-place-depaul-university-site
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Isn't the new arena going to be like two blocks from a Green Line L stop? They can take the train from Fullerton, switch downtown, and get to the arena in like 20 minutes.
Correct.
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Isn't the new arena going to be like two blocks from a Green Line L stop? They can take the train from Fullerton, switch downtown, and get to the arena in like 20 minutes.
For our diehards (and Depaul's) that won't be an issue. They'll get some students there. But it's hard to convince the casual fan to travel 40 minutes round trip to see a team that has been unsuccessful for years
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For our diehards (and Depaul's) that won't be an issue. They'll get some students there. But it's hard to convince the casual fan to travel 40 minutes round trip to see a team that has been unsuccessful for years
Right. But they would have that trouble if it were a 15 minute walk like Marquette students have. IOW, winning games would make the arena location issue irrelevant.
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The new DePaul arena will be 10.25 miles away from Lincoln Park DePaul campus. In retrospect, Allstate Arena is over 15 miles away from the Lincoln Park campus. By bus to the new arena, transportation will be an hour and fifteen minutes. By train (the El), transportation is 41 minutes. A bus is suggested once you get off at Cermak- Chinatown (the #21 Cermak/Clark bus) because the arena is close to a mile away from the train station. If you a fortunate enough to own a car in college, it is only a 25 minute drive. No matter how you slice it, this doesn't improve the ability for students to see their team play.
It is worth mentioning that DePaul built an on-campus arena for it's Women's Basketball team.
That 15 miles is irrelevant when you factor in the massive traffic on 90 going out or that to get public transportation you have to get to the Blue Line which is nowhere close to Depaul's campus, then a shuttle from the Blue Line out in Rosemont. We can quibble over city distances and train schedules, but while its not across the street from the dorms on campus, the new arena is 150% easier to get to for students.
And that oncampus arena is 3000 capacity and not all of that seated. Its very small and is part of the student rec center, its basically like the AL. There just isnt the space to build an appropraitely sized arena on or near campus in Lincoln Park. The Finkel site was the only option, and while very cool, still would have caused a lot of issues that lead to it not working out.
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The new DePaul arena will be 10.25 miles away from Lincoln Park DePaul campus. In retrospect, Allstate Arena is over 15 miles away from the Lincoln Park campus. By bus to the new arena, transportation will be an hour and fifteen minutes. By train (the El), transportation is 41 minutes. A bus is suggested once you get off at Cermak- Chinatown (the #21 Cermak/Clark bus) because the arena is close to a mile away from the train station. If you a fortunate enough to own a car in college, it is only a 25 minute drive. No matter how you slice it, this doesn't improve the ability for students to see their team play.
It is worth mentioning that DePaul built an on-campus arena for it's Women's Basketball team.
From a Marquette perspective, the new Bucks arena (and the current Bradley Center) is just a mile from campus. St. Johns campus is just three miles away from Madison Square Garden. The Pavillion at Villanova is a quarter-mile from campus. The list goes on and on...
A lot of this is assuming that pretty much all of Depaul's 24,000 students live in LP. They don't, it's not like MU where everybody is around campus. I've known Depaul kids living west in Logan, Humboldt and Wicker parks. As far north as Loyola, in Hyde Park, just out of the city west in Oak Park and Forest Park. They aren't a stay local school. Plus if you go to this arena you have options of doing things before and after the game if it stays in Rosemont then you're still stuck in Rosemont after the game and not even in the one little good part.
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From a Marquette perspective, the new Bucks arena (and the current Bradley Center) is just a mile from campus. St. Johns campus is just three miles away from Madison Square Garden. The Pavillion at Villanova is a quarter-mile from campus. The list goes on and on...
FWIW, the main St. John's campus is in Queens, about 13 miles from MSG. Maybe someone else knows the numbers, but I believe the Manhattan campus is much smaller.
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Why would any good player from the Chicago area go to DePaul when they could go to Marquette and have a great athletic facility and play in a NBA arena?
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AGAIN ... best thing that could happen to the Big East would be Marquette winning it all!
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A lot of this is assuming that pretty much all of Depaul's 24,000 students live in LP. They don't, it's not like MU where everybody is around campus. I've known Depaul kids living west in Logan, Humboldt and Wicker parks. As far north as Loyola, in Hyde Park, just out of the city west in Oak Park and Forest Park. They aren't a stay local school. Plus if you go to this arena you have options of doing things before and after the game if it stays in Rosemont then you're still stuck in Rosemont after the game and not even in the one little good part.
Correct ...
DePaul is in an expensive neighborhood. Too expensive for students which is why they are spread out all over the place.
Here is a $3.6 million listing literally 150 yards from their campus.
https://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/2231-N-Fremont-St-60614/home/13353378
(https://ssl.cdn-redfin.com/photo/68/mbphoto/826/genMid.08828826_2_1.jpg)
And because it is too expensive, you would never know you were in a college campus area even this close to DePaul. If one lived at 15th and Kilbourn (one block north of wells) in Milwaukee, homes would cost 1/10 (if not 1/15) and their would be no doubt you were in a college campus area as student could afford it.
So given they are spread out all over the place, almost anything that is not on campus is too far.
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Correct ...
DePaul is in an expensive neighborhood. Too expensive for students which is why they are spread out all over the place.
Here is a $3.6 million listing literally 150 yards from their campus.
https://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/2231-N-Fremont-St-60614/home/13353378
(https://ssl.cdn-redfin.com/photo/68/mbphoto/826/genMid.08828826_2_1.jpg)
And because it is too expensive, you would never know you were in a college campus area even this close to DePaul. If one lived at 15th and Kilbourn (one block north of wells) in Milwaukee, homes would cost 1/10 (if not 1/15) and their would be no doubt you were in a college campus area as student could afford it.
So given they are spread out all over the place, almost anything that is not on campus is too far.
I was agreeing with you will your last part. I believe the fact that it is more central in the city, grab some drinks in the south loup then head over to the game as opposed to sit in your apartment, sit on a bus for an hour or more, be stuck in rosemont. Plus I was saying the fact that they're spread out all over means they're used to the el, the el can be fun in groups of drunk college kids. Sitting on a bus in traffic not so much.
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Both Seton Hall and Depaul have shown that they won't put any investment into their athletic programs. If they want the privilege of being in the Big East, this needs to change. Any precedent for kicking teams out of a conference? I don't think it happens and I don't think we're there yet, but I'm curious is has ever been done.
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Both Seton Hall and Depaul have shown that they won't put any investment into their athletic programs. If they want the privilege of being in the Big East, this needs to change. Any precedent for kicking teams out of a conference? I don't think it happens and I don't think we're there yet, but I'm curious is has ever been done.
Temple was kicked out of the Big East as a football only member in 2005 because they sucked.
UMass will be kicked out of the MAC as a football only member because they refused to join for all sports.
I can't think of any others of recent vintage.
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The new DePaul arena will be 10.25 miles away from Lincoln Park DePaul campus. In retrospect, Allstate Arena is over 15 miles away from the Lincoln Park campus. By bus to the new arena, transportation will be an hour and fifteen minutes. By train (the El), transportation is 41 minutes. A bus is suggested once you get off at Cermak- Chinatown (the #21 Cermak/Clark bus) because the arena is close to a mile away from the train station. If you a fortunate enough to own a car in college, it is only a 25 minute drive. No matter how you slice it, this doesn't improve the ability for students to see their team play.
It is worth mentioning that DePaul built an on-campus arena for it's Women's Basketball team.
From a Marquette perspective, the new Bucks arena (and the current Bradley Center) is just a mile from campus. St. Johns campus is just three miles away from Madison Square Garden. The Pavillion at Villanova is a quarter-mile from campus. The list goes on and on...
The post shows a lack of basic understanding of transit in Chicago and where DePaul students live (not all are on campus), if you really think the new arena and Rosemont are a wash in terms of accessibility you have no clue.
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Both Seton Hall and Depaul have shown that they won't put any investment into their athletic programs. If they want the privilege of being in the Big East, this needs to change. Any precedent for kicking teams out of a conference? I don't think it happens and I don't think we're there yet, but I'm curious is has ever been done.
I'm not sure FSI - or whoever holds the TV rights next - would be cool about throwing away the Chicago market, regardless of how poorly DePaul performs (on the court or in the ratings).
The Big East probably is slightly better off with a good DePaul than a bad DePaul, but I think the benefits are likely marginal. A bad to middling St. John's program didn't exactly kill the old Big East, after all.
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Both Seton Hall and Depaul have shown that they won't put any investment into their athletic programs. If they want the privilege of being in the Big East, this needs to change. Any precedent for kicking teams out of a conference? I don't think it happens and I don't think we're there yet, but I'm curious is has ever been done.
Its the markets they are in. Big East needs them.
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I'm not sure FSI - or whoever holds the TV rights next - would be cool about throwing away the Chicago market, regardless of how poorly DePaul performs (on the court or in the ratings).
The Big East probably is slightly better off with a good DePaul than a bad DePaul, but I think the benefits are likely marginal. A bad to middling St. John's program didn't exactly kill the old Big East, after all.
Its the markets they are in. Big East needs them.
I certainly don't want to lose the Chicago market. Definitely agree with that. But the amount of investment Depaul has put in is laughable. I honestly think Loyola has invested more in athletics in recent years. Again, don't think we are at the point of actually pulling an old switcheroo, but I feel like there should be a point at which a conference can say "either invest or get out."
As for Seton Hall, do they really get us a market? I think St. John's does that just fine.
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I certainly don't want to lose the Chicago market. Definitely agree with that. But the amount of investment Depaul has put in is laughable. I honestly think Loyola has invested more in athletics in recent years. Again, don't think we are at the point of actually pulling an old switcheroo, but I feel like there should be a point at which a conference can say "either invest or get out."
Well, to be fair, DePaul is spending $82.5 million to help fund a new arena.
And Oliver Purnell was paid fairly handsomely (earned $2.2 million in 2013).
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Who cares. Seton Hall and DePaul do not hurt us. Every conference has lower tier teams. What we need to break through is to have upper tier teams become elite. If your best can beat the others best, then you're golden.
St. John's & Georgetown are original Big East Powers (Nova was never, IMO, considered a power*). Having St John's and GTown as Final Four teams / Top 10 mainstays would solidify the conference lot more than De Paul or Seton Hall routinely making the NCAAs. Marquette / Nova could help greatly too but I don't think we hold the same cache.
*They were an 8 Seed in 1985 and throughout the 80's their seed was: 8,9,3,3,7,8, 10,NIT,7,NIT.
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if you really think the new arena and Rosemont are a wash in terms of accessibility you have no clue.
Exactly. I would venture to guess that the majority of DePaul's suburbanite alums live within a few of miles of either I-90(west of Downtown), I-294, or I-94(north of Downtown). Getting to Rosemont is a breeze from any of those places. When you move the arena to McCormick Place, you will be forcing nearly all of these people to drive significantly farther, and through downtown, where traffic is almost always jammed. Maybe it's worth it to see the Bears. Totally not worth it to see a sucky DePaul.
My prediction: Once the novelty of a new venue wears off, attendance will drop even further.
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I certainly don't want to lose the Chicago market. Definitely agree with that. B
Question: What is the point of having the Chicago market if no one follows the Chicago team? I would bet that as a total, there are more people living in the Chicago market who are fans of the other Big East teams than there are DePaul fans. Hell, I would bet there are more Marquette fans in Chicago than there are DePaul fans.
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Ill raise you one: there are more B10 fans in chicago than BE fans.
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Ill raise you one: there are more B10 fans in chicago than BE fans.
I assume you are being sarcastic, because that is not exactly a bold assertion.
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I assume you are being sarcastic, because that is not exactly a bold assertion.
Obviously!
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Who cares. Seton Hall and DePaul do not hurt us. Every conference has lower tier teams. What we need to break through is to have upper tier teams become elite. If your best can beat the others best, then you're golden.
St. John's & Georgetown are original Big East Powers (Nova was never, IMO, considered a power*). Having St John's and GTown as Final Four teams / Top 10 mainstays would solidify the conference lot more than De Paul or Seton Hall routinely making the NCAAs. Marquette / Nova could help greatly too but I don't think we hold the same cache.
*They were an 8 Seed in 1985 and throughout the 80's their seed was: 8,9,3,3,7,8, 10,NIT,7,NIT.
+1. All of it.
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Question: What is the point of having the Chicago market if no one follows the Chicago team? I would bet that as a total, there are more people living in the Chicago market who are fans of the other Big East teams than there are DePaul fans. Hell, I would bet there are more Marquette fans in Chicago than there are DePaul fans.
Recruiting is one reason.
And I agree about MU fans in Chi. In fact, all of us Scoopers probably spend more time discussing DePaul than DePaul's own message board
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Question: What is the point of having the Chicago market if no one follows the Chicago team? I would bet that as a total, there are more people living in the Chicago market who are fans of the other Big East teams than there are DePaul fans. Hell, I would bet there are more Marquette fans in Chicago than there are DePaul fans.
For the same reason the Big 10 wanted to get into the NY/NJ market even though no one follows Rutgers. It establishes the conference in the market. It helps if the team is good, of course, but the team being bad doesn't entirely eliminate the benefit. Fact is, DePaul is the biggest BE school, with the biggest alumni base and in the second-biggest market. Their presence is good for the conference.
"No one" follows DePaul is a bit of a stretch. I know plenty of DePaul alums who care quite a bit, but just don't go to the games because the product is terrible and has been for a long time. They still managed to average 6,200 fans last year, which is better than the likes of Oregon, Arizona State, Georgia Tech and mighty Virginia Tech, among others. They obviously could do a lot better, but it's not as bad as is being portrayed here.
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Exactly. I would venture to guess that the majority of DePaul's suburbanite alums live within a few of miles of either I-90(west of Downtown), I-294, or I-94(north of Downtown). Getting to Rosemont is a breeze from any of those places. When you move the arena to McCormick Place, you will be forcing nearly all of these people to drive significantly farther, and through downtown, where traffic is almost always jammed. Maybe it's worth it to see the Bears. Totally not worth it to see a sucky DePaul.
My prediction: Once the novelty of a new venue wears off, attendance will drop even further.
I think they're hoping for more student interest since the alumni weren't coming either. At least one game a year they'd have ok student crowds.
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"No one" follows DePaul is a bit of a stretch. I know plenty of DePaul alums who care quite a bit, but just don't go to the games because the product is terrible and has been for a long time. They still managed to average 6,200 fans last year, which is better than the likes of Oregon, Arizona State, Georgia Tech and mighty Virginia Tech, among others. They obviously could do a lot better, but it's not as bad as is being portrayed here.
Your 6,200 number must be tickets sold, not attendance. Either way, it is pretty pathetic for a high D-1 school with over 100,000 alumni who live in the area - and does not have to compete with its football team.
The last few times I attended a MU-DePaul game at the Allstate Arena, the crowd was at least 80% Marquette fans. And there were more students in the pep band/spirit squad than in the student section. That is not an exaggeration. At last year's game, I literally took a count of the students by looking down the 4 occupied rows.
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My prediction: Once the novelty of a new venue wears off, attendance will drop even further.
Sadly, chickadee, I think this prediction will come true.
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Ill raise you one: there are more B10 fans in chicago than BE fans.
The Big 10 has over 4 million living alumni. They are the largest fan base in just about every TV market in the country (including NYC and LA)
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The Big 10 has over 4 million living alumni. They are the largest fan base in just about every TV market in the country (including NYC and LA)
Yup. Then you have people like my parents who went to UIC so they ended up being illinois and northwestern fans. Even myself, grew up on illini basketball before going to Marquette and still follow them and northwestern pretty closely.
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For the same reason the Big 10 wanted to get into the NY/NJ market even though no one follows Rutgers. It establishes the conference in the market. It helps if the team is good, of course, but the team being bad doesn't entirely eliminate the benefit. Fact is, DePaul is the biggest BE school, with the biggest alumni base and in the second-biggest market. Their presence is good for the conference.
"No one" follows DePaul is a bit of a stretch. I know plenty of DePaul alums who care quite a bit, but just don't go to the games because the product is terrible and has been for a long time. They still managed to average 6,200 fans last year, which is better than the likes of Oregon, Arizona State, Georgia Tech and mighty Virginia Tech, among others. They obviously could do a lot better, but it's not as bad as is being portrayed here.
Not some reason ... we have had many threads on this.
The Big10 took in Maryland and Rutgers so they could use their large alumni bases in the Washington and NYC TV markets to force/compel cable operators to carry the Big Ten Network (BTN) on a lower tier (non-premium) bundle. Remember the economics of TV networks, BTN gets paid for every TV in that market (about 30 cents per month) whether they actually watch the BTN or not.
This is why DePaul was important to FS1. They used it as leverage to ensure every cable operator in Chicago carried FS1 and FS2. Ditto St. Johns and Seton Hall in NYC, Nova in Philly, GU is DC, MU in Milwaukee and so on. The BE was important to a new FS1 as they needed "big city" programming to get on those cable systems lower tiers (or basic bundles).
Now that this has been established, DePaul's usefulness to the BE is based on their ability to raise the level and interest of the BE basketball product. On this front, DePaul does practically nothing for it.
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Ill raise you one: there are more B10 fans in chicago than BE fans.
Pick any single team from the B10, and it probably has more fans in chicago than BE fans.
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Pick any single team from the B10, and it probably has more fans in chicago than BE fans.
Rutgers
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This is why DePaul was important to FS1. They used it as leverage to ensure every cable operator in Chicago carried FS1 and FS2. Ditto St. Johns and Seton Hall in NYC, Nova in Philly, GU is DC, MU in Milwaukee and so on. The BE was important to a new FS1 as they needed "big city" programming to get on those cable systems lower tiers (or basic bundles).
I think you're forgetting that all those "big city" households already carried FS1--it was called the Speed channel before their rebrand. Fox didn't need "big city" programming to get on those cable systems as they were already on them.
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Rutgers
I'm not even sure about that.
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But really, the idea that the BE is going to jettison members is fun to talk about but it simply isn't going to happen. This is why the examples of schools getting booted out of conferences are so rare - one example based on poor performance that I can think of, and even in that case it was a single sport membership. (Temple in BE)
Furthermore, you are taking programming away from Fox unless you add new members. But then you are right back to where you started. Who are you going to add?
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But really, the idea that the BE is going to jettison members is fun to talk about but it simply isn't going to happen. This is why the examples of schools getting booted out of conferences are so rare - one example based on poor performance that I can think of, and even in that case it was a single sport membership. (Temple in BE)
Furthermore, you are taking programming away from Fox unless you add new members. But then you are right back to where you started. Who are you going to add?
Any and all A-10 or MWC teams that put together back-to-back solid seasons and/or make it to at least the Sweet 16!
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Any and all A-10 or MWC teams that put together back-to-back solid seasons and/or make it to at least the Sweet 16!
Right. So let's start that debate again. Dayton...Wichita...St. Louis... Those schools could all be added right now and the BE is showing no interest.
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Any and all A-10 or MWC teams that put together back-to-back solid seasons and/or make it to at least the Sweet 16!
Let's get nuts. Promotion and relegation between the Big East and A10/MVC. League winners go up. Bottom two get relegated to the best geographical fit.
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Not some reason ... we have had many threads on this.
The Big10 took in Maryland and Rutgers so they could use their large alumni bases in the Washington and NYC TV markets to force/compel cable operators to carry the Big Ten Network (BTN) on a lower tier (non-premium) bundle. Remember the economics of TV networks, BTN gets paid for every TV in that market (about 30 cents per month) whether they actually watch the BTN or not.
This is why DePaul was important to FS1. They used it as leverage to ensure every cable operator in Chicago carried FS1 and FS2. Ditto St. Johns and Seton Hall in NYC, Nova in Philly, GU is DC, MU in Milwaukee and so on. The BE was important to a new FS1 as they needed "big city" programming to get on those cable systems lower tiers (or basic bundles).
Now that this has been established, DePaul's usefulness to the BE is based on their ability to raise the level and interest of the BE basketball product. On this front, DePaul does practically nothing for it.
But using your logic, Depaul seems to be fairly responsible for ensuring that most cable operators in Chicago carry FS1 and FS2. What is one of the flagships for FS1? Big East basketball. This means that more households in the Chicago market would have the capability of showing Big East basketball due to Depaul being in the conference.
Therefore helping to establish the conference in the market.
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I think you're forgetting that all those "big city" households already carried FS1--it was called the Speed channel before their rebrand. Fox didn't need "big city" programming to get on those cable systems as they were already on them.
Not true.
Because FS1 was considered a "new channel" with a new scope of programming, the network had to renegotiate contracts with its carriers. Dish, DirecTV, Warner, etc., didn't automatically pick it up. Talks with many carriers went down to the wire because Fox was seeking - and ultimately didn't get - a large hike in carriage fees with the change from Speed to FS1.
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Your 6,200 number must be tickets sold, not attendance. Either way, it is pretty pathetic for a high D-1 school with over 100,000 alumni who live in the area - and does not have to compete with its football team.
Well, yeah, tickets sold is how every school counts attendance. And, yeah, it's not good. But it's not "no one" either.
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But using your logic, Depaul seems to be fairly responsible for ensuring that most cable operators in Chicago carry FS1 and FS2. What is one of the flagships for FS1? Big East basketball. This means that more households in the Chicago market would have the capability of showing Big East basketball due to Depaul being in the conference.
Therefore helping to establish the conference in the market.
Correct.
So DePaul had a big value in the beginning, it helped get FS1 on basic tier (bundle) in the third largest TV market.
But I concluded with this ....
Now that this has been established, DePaul's usefulness to the BE is based on their ability to raise the level and interest of the BE basketball product. On this front, DePaul does practically nothing for it.
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Since the Big East's reboot, all but one team has been ranked at least once in the top-25. Any takers on who that mystery team may be?
It's been over 10 years since DePaul Mens Basketball has been ranked. With a new arena opening soon, and a new coach, there are absolutely zero excuses why they can't be competitive in OOC and in the Big East. Zero. For whatever reason, in addition to DePaul's leadership and administration, the Big East has settled on the Blue Demons being considerably below average over the years. That should not be accepted.
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Since the Big East's reboot, all but one team has been ranked at least once in the top-25. Any takers on who that mystery team may be?
It's been over 10 years since DePaul Mens Basketball has been ranked. With a new arena opening soon, and a new coach, there are absolutely zero excuses why they can't be competitive in OOC and in the Big East. Zero. For whatever reason, in addition to DePaul's leadership and administration, the Big East has settled on the Blue Demons being considerably below average over the years. That should not be accepted.
They've had no excuses since they joined the BE.
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Well, yeah, tickets sold is how every school counts attendance. And, yeah, it's not good. But it's not "no one" either.
I think it is officially tickets "distributed". You can give them to the local Boys Club and count it. Very few schools are even close to actual attendance vs. tickets distributed. We seem to be among the biggest violators when I look at the TV and see an upper deck 75% empty and lower deck 20% empty and then see 12K reported.
Depaul rarely has more than 3-4K actual fannies in the seats.
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Depaul rarely has more than 3-4K actual fannies in the seats.
Not even DIBS can convince me otherwise when he points to numerous locations in the upper deck that are clearly uninhabited.
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Depaul rarely has more than 3-4K actual fannies in the seats.
Except when they are/were playing Marquette or Notre Dame. I imagine DePaul's athletics revenue took a not-insignificant hit when ND dropped out of the Big East.
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Correct.
So DePaul had a big value in the beginning, it helped get FS1 on basic tier (bundle) in the third largest TV market.
But I concluded with this ....
Now that this has been established, DePaul's usefulness to the BE is based on their ability to raise the level and interest of the BE basketball product. On this front, DePaul does practically nothing for it.
Ahh, gotcha. I guess I misunderstood your part "On this front...". The proximity of that statement to "Depaul's usefulness..." made it seem to me you were arguing against it.
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Except when they are/were playing Marquette or Notre Dame. I imagine DePaul's athletics revenue took a not-insignificant hit when ND dropped out of the Big East.
My 4th year at MU I went to the Depaul vs Notre Dame game and it was actually close to a full stadium. It was something called Demon day and everybody got free T-shirts. Depaul lost in OT but it's worth noting that a terrible Depaul team took a really good ND team to OT with a big crowd to play for. Even our best years not as many Depaul fans show to the game as that.
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My 4th year at MU I went to the Depaul vs Notre Dame game and it was actually close to a full stadium. It was something called Demon day and everybody got free T-shirts. Depaul lost in OT but it's worth noting that a terrible Depaul team took a really good ND team to OT with a big crowd to play for. Even our best years not as many Depaul fans show to the game as that.
I actually went to that game too. Sat upper deck behind the hoop. Arena was full and surprisingly loud. Fun atmosphere.
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Well, yeah, tickets sold is how every school counts attendance. And, yeah, it's not good. But it's not "no one" either.
and MLB, NBA, NHL teams as well.
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I think it is officially tickets "distributed". You can give them to the local Boys Club and count it. Very few schools are even close to actual attendance vs. tickets distributed. We seem to be among the biggest violators when I look at the TV and see an upper deck 75% empty and lower deck 20% empty and then see 12K reported.
How is a anyone a "violator" when attendance number are tickets sold/given in ALL sports.
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I think it is officially tickets "distributed". You can give them to the local Boys Club and count it. Very few schools are even close to actual attendance vs. tickets distributed. We seem to be among the biggest violators when I look at the TV and see an upper deck 75% empty and lower deck 20% empty and then see 12K reported.
Depaul rarely has more than 3-4K actual fannies in the seats.
I believe MU season ticket sales alone are above 10K. It's not like they are driving driving down Wisconsin Avenue tossing tickets out of the window and calling it "distributed tickets".
Besides, Marquette has 1/3 of the undergraduate enrollmeny of DePaul, and they easily draw 10 times the number of students and and 4-5 times the number of other fans.
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Yeah, they suck. But they still capped us last year so we better pipe down until we get both games again.
Agree with your comment. For us to make 11-7 this year will require something very special from this team. Beating De Paul twice would be just a first step in this long difficult process.
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I think 11-7 is doable with this team. I truly think they are going to continue to grow and will get better as the season goes on.
I'm going with 7-2 at home, and 4-5 on the road. (Losses to two of Georgetown, Nova, Xavier at home. Wins at DePaul, Seton Hall, SJU and Creighton)
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How is a anyone a "violator" when attendance number are tickets sold/given in ALL sports.
Maybe a poor choice of words but the spread between announced vs. actual is very big for MU the last few years IMO. Seems vastly different than the Bucks or Brewers. It's not important, just making an observation.
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Maybe a poor choice of words but the spread between announced vs. actual is very big for MU the last few years IMO. Seems vastly different than the Bucks or Brewers. It's not important, just making an observation.
How do we know which teams give attendance numbers based on tickets sold and which ones do not? For example, the Steelers have an active sellout streak that goes back many years, yet the attendance numbers for each game at Heinz Field fluctuate for every game.
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How do we know which teams give attendance numbers based on tickets sold and which ones do not? For example, the Steelers have an active sellout streak that goes back many years, yet the attendance numbers for each game at Heinz Field fluctuate for every game.
I've wondered this too...here's my guess
Attendance can be over capacity (which is a "sellout")...generally through standing room only. Perhaps this is why it fluctuates?
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I think 11-7 is doable with this team. I truly think they are going to continue to grow and will get better as the season goes on.
I'm going with 7-2 at home, and 4-5 on the road. (Losses to two of Georgetown, Nova, Xavier at home. Wins at DePaul, Seton Hall, SJU and Creighton)
That means we beat Butler and a very good Providence team at home. PC looked scary good against MSU. Hope you are correct.
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Let's get nuts. Promotion and relegation between the Big East and A10/MVC. League winners go up. Bottom two get relegated to the best geographical fit.
After last year, I'm not sure we want to start pushing for relegation...
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After last year, I'm not sure we want to start pushing for relegation...
So...about those conference games against St. Bonaventure....